• Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
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[QUOTE=codemaster85;47035647]Completely valid points I didn't know about[/QUOTE] Yeah sorry if I came across in an assholish way. [QUOTE]“Thanks!” said Burch. “Torgue started out as an over-the-top parody of masculinity, but in a kind of shitty and problematic way–in Borderlands 2 he has a line about how if you don’t like explosions “you must be wearin’ women’s underwear,” which is obviously problematic for like eighty reasons. As time went on and I got slightly less ignorant about gender politics while Torgue got slightly more popular, I tried to shift him into a more progressive frame of mind.” [/QUOTE] I never got to see Mr.Torgue since I never bought the DLC's, but to completely change a character like this is completely awful, and now I think I understand why people dislike Burch as much as they do. It seems like a lot of the things that earned Burch his ire he did well after the release after the base game. Again, sorry if I sounded like an asshole. Thanks for showing me these quips.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;47035462]That's because these kinds of people only want representation if it's the blaring, token kind- but only if it's written by a person of that minority type. Take as an example, Poison. It's unknown whether or not she's trans- but a lot of fans think that she is. This has no bearing on her abilities, positive or negative. Pointing out somebody's minority status is important if it actually has a bearing on the story; eg, if your character is black in the Civil Rights Movement, it's probably worth mentioning that they're black. But if they're black in your novel set in the year 2954 when all racial discrimination has been eliminated, you can probably leave it to just the odd phrase describing their skin tone.[/QUOTE] On the other hand, God help you as a character if you have even one blatantly gay momement because everyone will remember you as the gay character(s). If you looked at fanart after the end of The Legend of Korra, you'd think the only defining things about Korra and Asami was "THEY'RE LEZBOS" not what they've done and their personalities.
Welcome to SJW writing, where a character can't be problematic [I]even if they're a dickhead and their being problematic is part of their dickhead character[/I]. In films of the future, are the KKK just going to be a bunch of guys in white sheets saying "We would appreciate it if all the black people went away! Thank you!" because if they were any worse than that the author would be accused of racism? Also, considering that Torgue apparently says this stuff: [quote]"The Vault Hunter is going through bandits faster than a fat kid in a cookie store! NOW I WANT COOKIES!"[/quote] He's not exactly [I]that[/I] progressive. Unless fat people are acceptable targets to Anthony Burch, idk. [editline]29th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ziron;47035833]On the other hand, God help you as a character if you have even one blatantly gay momement because everyone will remember you as the gay character(s). If you looked at fanart after the end of The Legend of Korra, you'd think the only defining things about Korra and Asami was "THEY'RE LEZBOS" not what they've done and their personalities.[/QUOTE] I sympathise somewhat with Tumblr's tendency to latch onto gay couples- despite everything, they're still not that prevalent in media. On a side note, it pisses me off when people insist that [I]any[/I] non-canon ship (obviously Korra's relationship is canon so it doesn't count) has to be true because of blah-de-blah silly reason.
[video=youtube;VI1DY9-S4Jc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI1DY9-S4Jc[/video]
[QUOTE=BigPalooka;47035658]Well, there's also that one quest where you dig up Hammerlock's ex boyfriend's audio journals.[/QUOTE] There was also several quests where you dig up audio logs about heterosexual couples too. [QUOTE=codemaster85;47035647]Could you imagine if masterchief just started hitting on some elite and was flamboyant as shit for no reason at all in a sequel? [/QUOTE] I don't see how thats comparable. Halo and Borderlands 2 are both completely different thematically. You still haven't said which character, if any, is defined by their sexuality. [editline]29th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE] “When Randy Pitchford, Matthew Armstrong, Brian Martel and I were in a meeting about the playable characters, the initial plan was to have Nisha, Wilhelm, Claptrap, and another male character,” said Burch. “I got irritated about the gender imbalance, and everyone else agreed we needed another woman.” [/QUOTE] 4 people came to the consensus that the game needed another female character and it turns out to be easily the most interesting character in the game. p bad point to make if you are trying to suggest agenda-driven development hurt the game.
i like how burch wrote a super macho man character that WOULD call someone a girl because they're super macho, and then regrets that he wrote the character to say something like that just... write a character the way that character would be, naturally. not how that character might offend someone. this is just kind of what i fear about the video game industry when it comes to writing. soon everyone will be afraid to make a complex character that might be a little sexist or racist or whatever. not everyone is a 100% moral person that knows exactly what to say or how to say things. not everyone is a megaphone for the fucking writer.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47036276]There was also several quests where you dig up audio logs about heterosexual couples too. [/QUOTE] I was just showing an example of where it came up again, since the previous poster mentioned "not hearing about it again".
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47036276]There was also several quests where you dig up audio logs about heterosexual couples too. [/QUOTE] None of whom are happy. Fuck's sake, the first audio log has Axton sounding like a madman and his wife both firing and leaving him. And it just gets worse down the line for the other hetero characters who end up in entirely dysfunctional relationships.
[QUOTE=Swilly;47036371]None of whom are happy. Fuck's sake, the first audio log has Axton sounding like a madman and his wife both firing and leaving him. And it just gets worse down the line for the other hetero characters who end up in entirely dysfunctional relationships.[/QUOTE] It's fucking Borderlands every relationship is dysfunctional.
[QUOTE=Xonax;47032478]I did, and it's hard to tell since they don't post GG stuff 24/7. Also so Anthony Burch is AGG...Does he put GG stuff into Borderlands? Should I avoid buying the Pre-sequel?[/QUOTE] You need to decide for yourself what the line is, and where YOU should draw it. I have four friends at BWE/M, two of whom are [I]militantly[/I] anti-gamer. They're still my friends. They're annoyed I haven't bought DA:I, and will be probably be very hurt if I don't bother buying ME:C, by the same token they aren't going to set my house on fire for taking a stand they absolutely do not agree with. Decide for yourself what your responsibilities as a consumer with the power to [I]say no[/I] is, it's one of the few outlets you have that is absolute. No one should be telling you otherwise. Do your damn homework. [editline]29th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=TheJoey;47033148]jesus christ. watching graham linehan alienate his fans for absolutely no reason but political rage is heartbreaking. [url]https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/560800609751007233[/url] like, how much of a cunt can one person be?[/QUOTE] Insulation makes you the giantest of cunts See: leigh alexander. [editline]29th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Jamsponge;47035462]That's because these kinds of people only want representation if it's the blaring, token kind- but only if it's written by a person of that minority type. Take as an example, Poison. It's unknown whether or not she's trans- but a lot of fans think that she is. This has no bearing on her abilities, positive or negative. Pointing out somebody's minority status is important if it actually has a bearing on the story; eg, if your character is black in the Civil Rights Movement, it's probably worth mentioning that they're black. But if they're black in your novel set in the year 2954 when all racial discrimination has been eliminated, you can probably leave it to just the odd phrase describing their skin tone.[/QUOTE] Actually in japan, Poison's sex is very much newhalf, aka a fully functional male with breasts, and no one gives a shit, not in the cast and not in the real world. The reason the issue exists at all is Capcom didn't want to do anything to piss off 90s brogamers or political conservatives. Things in the fgc are very much different now.
[QUOTE]"I’ve been told once or twice that the bisexual or gay characters I wrote for Borderlands 2 were arbitrary and forced. This is one hundred percent true. I did not have any particular stories to tell about human sexuality — I just randomly chose a few characters and decided that they weren’t heterosexual. I had no "reason" to do so other than the belief that a cast of sexually diverse characters is better than a sexually homogenous one."[/QUOTE] Gotta fill those minority checkboxes. What better way to make people feel accepted if not by making the characters they are supposed to relate to completely uninteresting and whose only purpose is being "token black man" and "token gay man" Shitty writing is what it is, and a disgustingly lazy way to make yourself feel better. On the other hand it falls in line with the quality of the writing in the borderlands series as a whole
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47036563]Gotta fill those minority checkboxes. What better way to make people feel accepted if not by making the characters they are supposed to relate to completely uninteresting and whose only purpose is being "token black man" and "token gay man" Shitty writing is what it is, and a disgustingly lazy way to make yourself feel better. On the other hand it falls in line with the quality of the writing in the borderlands series as a whole[/QUOTE] But the games never do this though. They aren't token black men or token gay men. There is so much more to Roland other than the fact that he happens to be black just as there is so much more to Hammerlock and Janey Springs than them being gay. Argue with his logic that a sexually diverse cast is automatically better than a sexually homogenous one, which I find dubious myself, but I think if you played the Borderlands games you would realize the characters are more than just gay.
But it's continuously in your face and the characters are already cardboard cutouts as it is it ends up being the major feature of their character And I guess it got worse because while hammerlock wasn't that bad with janey springs it gets brought up like a dozen times and every time is just extremely forced and it gets brought up for no logical reason other than HEY LOOK IN CASE YOU MISSED IT SHE'S A LESBIAN WE ARE PROGRESSIVES HERE
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47036596]But the games never do this though. They aren't token black men or token gay men. There is so much more to Axton other than the fact that he happens to be black just as there is so much more to Hammerlock and Janey Springs than them being gay. Argue with his logic that a sexually diverse cast is automatically better than a sexually homogenous one, which I find dubious myself, but I think if you played the Borderlands games you would realize the characters are more than just gay.[/QUOTE] Not Axton, you mean Roland. Axton is white.
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47036659]But it's continuously in your face and the characters are already cardboard cutouts as it is it ends up being the major feature of their character And I guess it got worse because while hammerlock wasn't that bad with janey springs it gets brought up like a dozen times and every time is just extremely forced and it gets brought up for no logical reason other than HEY LOOK IN CASE YOU MISSED IT SHE'S A LESBIAN WE ARE PROGRESSIVES HERE[/QUOTE] It comprises like 10% of Hammerlocks dialogue [I]max[/I]. Janey lays it on a bit thick in the beginning of the Pre-Sequel but even then most of her character is that of a plucky scavenger and mechanic who helps the player proceed through her mastery of machinery. If you go out of your way to ignore other character traits and focus on how gay characters are then yeah you will come out of the experience seeing an imbalance.
New episode of law and order [url]http://allthingslawandorder.blogspot.com/2015/01/law-order-svu-intimidation-game-episode.html[/url] [QUOTE]Law & Order SVU “Intimidation Game” Air Date February 11, 2015 (9 PM ET/8C Wednesday NBC) THE VIRTUAL WORLD BECOMES REALITY WHEN A VIDEO GAME CONVENTION TURNS INTO A CRIME SCENE Video game developer Raina Punjabi (guest star Mouzam Makkar) solidifies the launch of her first game amid a stream of online insults, intimidation and death threats from the male-dominated gaming community. When a female employee is assaulted at a gamer convention, Detective Tutuola (Ice-T) investigates the crime but Raina refuses to delay the launch, and the cops must "level up" to protect her. Also starring Mariska Hargitay (Sgt. Olivia Benson), Kelli Giddish (Det. Amanda Rollins) and Peter Scanavino (Det. Dominick Carisi Jr.). Guest starring Peter Mark Kendall (Steven Kaplan), Susannah Flood (Sarah Keller) and Griffin Matthews (Leslie Connolly).[/QUOTE] [editline]29th January 2015[/editline] i can't stop laughing
[QUOTE=Wii60;47036777]New episode of law and order [URL]http://allthingslawandorder.blogspot.com/2015/01/law-order-svu-intimidation-game-episode.html[/URL] [quote] and the cops must "[B]level up[/B]" to protect her[/quote] [/QUOTE] Genuinely triggered.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47036395]It's fucking Borderlands every relationship is dysfunctional.[/QUOTE] Actually no, they weren't. A lot of the LGBT relationships were healthy or at least appeared healthy. Where as all the heterosexual relationships hit every. single. trope. imaginable.
what would make that law & order episode even more hilarious is there's a plot twist in the middle that the dev hired people to insult her for a good ad campaign
[QUOTE=Swilly;47036841]Actually no, they weren't. A lot of the LGBT relationships were healthy or at least appeared healthy.[/QUOTE] Except for all the ones that aren't lol. [QUOTE=Swilly;47036841] Where as all the heterosexual relationships hit every. single. trope. imaginable.[/QUOTE] So are we moving the goal posts from "The game has too much gay in it!" to "Well there is a balance but the gays get better treatment by the script!"? Because that seems rather vague and conspiratorial.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47036869]Except for all the ones that aren't lol. So are we moving the goal posts from "The game has too much gay in it!" to "Well there is a balance but the gays get better treatment by the script!"? Because that seems rather vague and conspiratorial.[/QUOTE] I never moved the goal posts.
I think Sir Hammerlock ran that "Old Timey Explorer Man" schtick way into the ground before anything about his sexuality.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47036777]New episode of law and order [URL]http://allthingslawandorder.blogspot.com/2015/01/law-order-svu-intimidation-game-episode.html[/URL] [editline]29th January 2015[/editline] i can't stop laughing[/QUOTE] This is Law and Order SVU: What's going to happen is that she was actually assaulted by a random character she was semi-close with that appeared for three minutes in the first half of the episode and has nothing to do with harassment. If Stabler were still on it would involve him bashing a gaming console over a stereotypical neckbeard's head while trying to force a confession out of him.
[QUOTE=Ziron;47037038]This is Law and Order SVU: What's going to happen is that she was actually assaulted by a random character she was semi-close with that appeared for three minutes in the first half of the episode. If Stabler were still on it would involve him bashing a gaming console over a stereotypical neckbeard's head while trying to force a confession out of him.[/QUOTE] Yeah.....more or less why I stopped watching it.
[QUOTE=Solo Wing;47037042]Yeah.....more or less why I stopped watching it.[/QUOTE] After you watch enough low-brow crime shows like SVU and NCIS, it's pretty easy to figure out the story beats and who might've actually committed the crime. I still like them because of how ridiculous they can get. I still think that corruption in the indie gaming scene would've made for a good Law and Order: CI episode when it was just Goren and Eames. Just have a Zoe or Leigh knockoff murder a Phil Fish-wannabe and you've got a reason for Goren to appear and yell at Zoe/Leigh until she starts yelling back and confesses her crimes in the process.
reminder that this is what #gamergate is fighting for [url]https://twitter.com/ADuralde/status/559199346135007232[/url]
[QUOTE=Wii60;47036777]New episode of law and order [url]http://allthingslawandorder.blogspot.com/2015/01/law-order-svu-intimidation-game-episode.html[/url] [editline]29th January 2015[/editline] i can't stop laughing[/QUOTE] Crime shows making episodes about gaming are the funniest shit They manage to be extremely stereotypical and at the same time have no clue about gaming culture (or even how games work really) and come up with absurd plots
[url]https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/560750272163893248[/url] [QUOTE]What percentage of women in gamergate using female anime avatars are actually men? I'll start the bidding at 100%[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47036596]There is so much more to Roland other than the fact that he happens to be black[/QUOTE] Are we talking about Borderlands 2? Because I disagree. In 2, he has literally no character, stereotypical or otherwise. He's like Amidala from star wars: he delivers stoic dialogue to advance the plot, and not much else. Being a one-note character would be an [I]improvement[/I].
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;47035860]Welcome to SJW writing, where a character can't be problematic [I]even if they're a dickhead and their being problematic is part of their dickhead character[/I]. In films of the future, are the KKK just going to be a bunch of guys in white sheets saying "We would appreciate it if all the black people went away! Thank you!" because if they were any worse than that the author would be accused of racism? Also, considering that Torgue apparently says this stuff: He's not exactly [I]that[/I] progressive. Unless fat people are acceptable targets to Anthony Burch, idk. [editline]29th January 2015[/editline] I sympathise somewhat with Tumblr's tendency to latch onto gay couples- despite everything, they're still not that prevalent in media. On a side note, it pisses me off when people insist that [I]any[/I] non-canon ship (obviously Korra's relationship is canon so it doesn't count) has to be true because of blah-de-blah silly reason.[/QUOTE] I just published a chapter talking about the KKK thing, only they talk about people editing Huckleberry Finn to take out all the mentions of racism. Like in Stephen King's book, some of his characters are super racist. It doesn't mean that King himself is racist, but that racism is a common issue that needs to be addressed. And, honestly guys, representation is pretty important to me. I once chatted with a woman (who happened to be trans) about how all the trans people in media seem to be villains. I have two trans characters in the story I'm writing. One guy is FTM and is essentially imprisoned once his parents find out he's on HRT. Second character, I don't even mention it, and I won't even let the main character find out until part three, long after the MTF UN lawyer is introduced. I love representation, but I think everyone here hates stereotypes, and that's what the media keeps ignoring. Also check out The Coldest Girl in Coldtown by Holly Black
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