• Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
    5,003 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;47063657] I think something to be really concerned about is how hard it is to get unbiased information on GG. It took me FAR too long to get a good idea of the situation and decide you guys weren't a misogynistic hate group, and I still don't have a good understanding of what the other side is for.[/QUOTE] I was hoping to save this for a bigger post, but I guess I'll answer your question with it. A few months ago I was as pro-GG as everybody else here, but I decided that it was my responsibility to at least get an informed perspective on both sides of this before I passed judgement, since I hope and expect AGGers to do the same research on us. I've been browsing GamerGhazi, AGG pundit twitter accounts and hashtags daily for the last few months, more often than I do proGG ones now. As it turns out the vast, silent majority of anti-gamergate aren't PC radfems - like actually you pointed out in the last page, both sides are split into several categories with different beliefs and goals. It's almost impossible to get perspective on this without reading into our opponents' criticisms which do point out, there are some toxic layers to proGG as well. At the most basic, they've divided us into two groups (and exactly like we do, they believe one represents the whole movement) - the moderate people who browse this thread, who are fighting the collusion and nepotism within game development and journalism, versus the people on KIA, whose primary goal seems to be to discredit AGG leaders, or just AGG anyone, as a solution to our shared problem. They dig up scandals, contradictions, pretend Sarkeesian & friends are the militaristic dictators of misinformed sheeple and men-hating radfems, that once we've criticized them enough they'll topple and so will the opposition. Even below this is an unfortunate (even smaller, yet even more vocal) group of genuine misogynists, anti-feminists/SJW/political correctness and plain psychopaths like Jace Connors. Once you read their forums, their hashtags, everything, and actually try to empathize with their information, the same is true for AGG. There's the vocal minority of radfem sociopaths like Sarah Butts, Brianna Wu, that other girl who learned trolling from her neonazi ex-boyfriend, and dozens of random extremists chiming in with "kill cishet scum", "gamergate is proof of X something males", "*drinks le man tears*". Then there's the moderate group of GamerGhazi reactionaries and everyday SJWs who genuinely believe that they can fight the misogynist hate mob by making fun of the ~stupid right-wing pissbabies~, and "GamerGate (this one guy on twitter) Actually Believes/Thinks/Tried To (posted with hashtag #Gamergate)" strawmanning. On the very top, there's discussions exactly like the ones we have here. Normal people, men and women on random hobby forums and facebook pages, who just hold the opinion that something's wrong with the treatment of women in games, as players and characters - and that, despite her flaws, Sarkeesian & pals are the most well-known proponents for solving (or at least bringing attention to) the problems that really do affect women in gaming, so supporting her is the best/only way to see progress. Without reading deep into discussions like the one here, it's easy to believe that GG really is just a thinly veiled mob of people trying to attack these ~corrupted SJW illuminatis~ for trying to ~take away muh games~, since that's exactly the narrative that OUR vocal minority has created. We both pull radical examples from the lowest groups to strawman the shit out of, we both generalize eachother as misogynists/misandrists, and we both believe the other side are just misinformed. Once you peel back the pure layer of bile, false-flag trolls, psychopaths, reactionaries, shit-stirrers, you get to the very core of GamerGate - which just comes down to a matter of opinion. We do have a lot in common, we just haven't had the opportunity for the openminded moderates to really share what their problems are without resorting to insults and sealioning. Once we [b]COMPLETELY STOP giving attention to the shitlords[/b] we can have a serious discussion with eachother and make progress in both areas. AGG largely doesn't realize that we really do fight against the corruption in media and shit spewn against the gamer community (or even realize there's a problem), like proGG doesn't realize that the sane people of AGG are fighting for equal treatment of women developers in videogames (or even realize they have a problem). TLDR, we need to stop focusing on 'toppling' the opposition, or even singling out AGG individuals. Stop giving the radical ones attention, and just empathize with the moderates. That's the only way to get our concerns respected, not by force, or by further proving their point by continuing to harass individuals no matter how evil or batshit crazy they are. Games are on the brink of becoming an artform - this is something we need to get our shit straight on, and it can be done without eliminating people who hold other opinions.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;47062941]rationalwiki is the liberal version of conservapedia and is just as biased [editline]2nd February 2015[/editline] so has it always been "doxing" because i swear i saw "doxxing" used far more before gamergate became a thing[/QUOTE] 90% sure it still is written with "xx". People who write it with just "x" probably have no clue about it and started with the noun.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;47063611][img]http://i.imgur.com/ajfhfDn.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Tb's right, but I'm gonna be honest, Dying Light has shit story in general and the way they handled Jade is abysmal.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;47063611]Dying Light[/QUOTE] I think far more damning is what she said afterwards. I'm not smart enough to link tweets but have a quote [QUOTE]When female characters appear capable before being damsel'd it does not make it better. It makes it worse. Literally disempowering.[/QUOTE] This shows the extent of Sarkeesian's lopsided view on media. If a female character is [I]ever [/I]put in a position of vulnerability or [I]ever [/I]has to rely on someone else to get her out of a bind, it's Damsel in Distress trope and "embarrassing".
Is that manually or automatically though? (Didn't quote properly - to the randi harper suspended post) Seems extremely likely to be automatic - don't get your hopes up.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47063963]I was hoping to save this for a bigger post, but I guess I'll answer your question with it. A few months ago I was as pro-GG as everybody else here, but I decided that it was my responsibility to at least get an informed perspective on both sides of this before I passed judgement, since I hope and expect AGGers to do the same research on us. I've been browsing GamerGhazi, AGG pundit twitter accounts and hashtags daily for the last few months, more often than I do proGG ones now. As it turns out the vast, silent majority of anti-gamergate aren't PC radfems - like actually you pointed out in the last page, both sides are split into several categories with different beliefs and goals. It's almost impossible to get perspective on this without reading into our opponents' criticisms which do point out, there are some toxic layers to proGG as well. At the most basic, they've divided us into two groups (and exactly like we do, they believe one represents the whole movement) - the moderate people who browse this thread, who are fighting the collusion and nepotism within game development and journalism, versus the people on KIA, whose primary goal seems to be to discredit AGG leaders, or just AGG anyone, as a solution to our shared problem. They dig up scandals, contradictions, pretend Sarkeesian & friends are the militaristic dictators of misinformed sheeple and men-hating radfems, that once we've criticized them enough they'll topple and so will the opposition. Even below this is an unfortunate (even smaller, yet even more vocal) group of genuine misogynists, anti-feminists/SJW/political correctness and plain psychopaths like Jace Connors. Once you read their forums, their hashtags, everything, and actually try to empathize with their information, the same is true for AGG. There's the vocal minority of radfem sociopaths like Sarah Butts, Brianna Wu, that other girl who learned trolling from her neonazi ex-boyfriend, and dozens of random extremists chiming in with "kill cishet scum", "gamergate is proof of X something males", "*drinks le man tears*". Then there's the moderate group of GamerGhazi reactionaries and everyday SJWs who genuinely believe that they can fight the misogynist hate mob by making fun of the ~stupid right-wing pissbabies~, and "GamerGate (this one guy on twitter) Actually Believes/Thinks/Tried To (posted with hashtag #Gamergate)" strawmanning. On the very top, there's discussions exactly like the ones we have here. Normal people, men and women on random hobby forums and facebook pages, who just hold the opinion that something's wrong with the treatment of women in games, as players and characters - and that, despite her flaws, Sarkeesian & pals are the most well-known proponents for solving (or at least bringing attention to) the problems that really do affect women in gaming, so supporting her is the best/only way to see progress. Without reading deep into discussions like the one here, it's easy to believe that GG really is just a thinly veiled mob of people trying to attack these ~corrupted SJW illuminatis~ for trying to ~take away muh games~, since that's exactly the narrative that OUR vocal minority has created. We both pull radical examples from the lowest groups to strawman the shit out of, we both generalize eachother as misogynists/misandrists, and we both believe the other side are just misinformed. Once you peel back the pure layer of bile, false-flag trolls, psychopaths, reactionaries, shit-stirrers, you get to the very core of GamerGate - which just comes down to a matter of opinion. We do have a lot in common, we just haven't had the opportunity for the openminded moderates to really share what their problems are without resorting to insults and sealioning. Once we [b]COMPLETELY STOP giving attention to the shitlords[/b] we can have a serious discussion with eachother and make progress in both areas. AGG largely doesn't realize that we really do fight against the corruption in media and shit spewn against the gamer community (or even realize there's a problem), like proGG doesn't realize that the sane people of AGG are fighting for equal treatment of women developers in videogames (or even realize they have a problem). TLDR, we need to stop focusing on 'toppling' the opposition, or even singling out AGG individuals. Stop giving the radical ones attention, and just empathize with the moderates. That's the only way to get our concerns respected, not by force, or by further proving their point by continuing to harass individuals no matter how evil or batshit crazy they are. Games are on the brink of becoming an artform - this is something we need to get our shit straight on, and it can be done without eliminating people who hold other opinions.[/QUOTE] I don't think the majority of GG has any desire to silence anyone. Personally, when I see Sarkesian having an influence in the industry at any level, I feel it's undeserved as there's really obvious, open and glaring flaws in her arguments and logic and for her to be the so called spokeswoman is a bit disingenuous for people who like myself are feminists. Not only are those flaws so apparent, they're so ignored and glossed over by her supporters and herself so as to say "No, there isn't a dialogue about this, this view point is right" it's hard not to imagine that there's going to be vitriol against her when she gives no quarter in this discussion.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47063963][...] TLDR, we need to stop focusing on 'toppling' the opposition, or even singling out AGG individuals. Stop giving the radical ones attention, and just empathize with the moderates. That's the only way to get our concerns respected, not by force, or by further proving their point by continuing to harass individuals no matter how evil or batshit crazy they are. Games are on the brink of becoming an artform - this is something we need to get our shit straight on, and it can be done without eliminating people who hold other opinions.[/QUOTE] This last part isn't going to happen. First off, we can't "stop harassing them" if we're not doing that in the first place. You won't convince any trolls and/or random people passing by to suddenly treat them with kid gloves. Fairly criticizing them is a must because as we know by now their stupid garbage ideologies do spread if left completely unchecked (but only slowly). With as little shining a spotlight on them as possible of course. If they self-destruct over [I]that[/I] then all the better, because that is what ultimately dismantles the credibility of radicals. That said, a bit more outreach wouldn't be bad. The problem is that we don't have a platform where we can effectively reach out to moderates except 1-1. In that format too it's still pretty useless on the Internet with strangers, if you don't actively peruse the web for any "What is Gamergate?" questions and get your word in before someone posts an MSM hit piece. The best people can do is probably try to convince others they know offline, preferably those who are well connected. Outside that only very few people have the necessary clout, and unless they are writing for conservative outlets they are unlikely to have a receptive audience. On that "on the brink of becoming an artform" point: That's Extra Credits tier romantic garbage, and I say this as someone who was around when they unreasonably started pushing it. Either it always was an art form, or art forms exist within games as medium. "Games are art." has much substance as "Stuff with paint on it is art.", when both can be created utterly uncreatively.
Went to Ghazi to try and find a decent argument for Jade being a Damsel in Distress, got this [url]https://sphericalbullshit.wordpress.com/2015/02/02/the-damsel-in-distress-trope-and-why-but-shes-bad-ass-is-not-an-excuse/[/url] [QUOTE] Whether the game TotalBacon is raving about with Sarkeesian actually involves any of the godawful, asinine, over-used and cheap DID crap, I don’t know. I have no clue about the details of this game. I can’t even remember the name without looking at the screenshot. I literally have not heard of it until this week. I have neither the time, money, nor inclination to buy a PS4 and play something that looks exactly the same as every other game released since they discovered they could implement real-time normal mapping in console graphics. But here’s the point that the tirade from the inevitable mob of ass-hurt Gators and Gamers will probably not read: I really don’t care. Because that’s not the point. I’m going to play the probabilities game, go out on a limb, and say that one of the plots broached within said game satisfies the DID criteria outlined above, while the other rescue missions really don’t. Hence SoggyBiscuit’s counter example isn’t the iron clad refutation he might think it is.[/QUOTE] This nerdbiscuit guy has no idea what he is talking about, trust me, the guy who has never played the game or even bothered to do the basic levels of research necessary to speak about it.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47064100]I don't think the majority of GG has any desire to silence anyone. Personally, when I see Sarkesian having an influence in the industry at any level, I feel it's undeserved as there's really obvious, open and glaring flaws in her arguments and logic and for her to be the so called spokeswoman is a bit disingenuous for people who like myself are feminists. Not only are those flaws so apparent, they're so ignored and glossed over by her supporters and herself so as to say "No, there isn't a dialogue about this, this view point is right" it's hard not to imagine that there's going to be vitriol against her when she gives no quarter in this discussion.[/QUOTE] I found a pretty obscure comment thread on GamerGhazi where some moderate AGGers actually agree with you - she used to be involved with pyramid schemes, she may not even like videogames, her arguments are full of logical fallacies and vague patriarchy-shaming, and there's a considered theory that she's just an actress for McIntosh. But either way - can you name someone, anyone else, with as much power as her who's brought issues facing women in games to light, no matter how radically presented? To the women devs who faced all kinds of trolling, employer discrimination, and actual harassment, who've been long frustrated about the treatment of women characters, and even just women gamers who have the same issues - how does a loud voice respected by the mainstream, who shares your frustrations and offers a solution, sound? Most of her supporters don't realize the problems with her argument, largely because of the hugboxing going on with her fanbase, but some do and still continue to support her. If the only famous voice for women equality in gaming was exposed as a con artist, what would that do for their movement? That's why they continue to support her. They doubt the problems in her videos can even do that much damage, just that she brings these issues to light.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47064167]Went to Ghazi to try and find a decent argument for Jade being a Damsel in Distress, got this [url]https://sphericalbullshit.wordpress.com/2015/02/02/the-damsel-in-distress-trope-and-why-but-shes-bad-ass-is-not-an-excuse/[/url] This nerdbiscuit guy has no idea what he is talking about, trust me, the guy who has never played the game or even bothered to do the basic levels of research necessary to speak about it.[/QUOTE] What the heck is DID?
[QUOTE=Banned?;47064192]What the heck is DID?[/QUOTE] Damsel in Distress.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47064167]Went to Ghazi to try and find a decent argument for Jade being a Damsel in Distress, got this [url]https://sphericalbullshit.wordpress.com/2015/02/02/the-damsel-in-distress-trope-and-why-but-shes-bad-ass-is-not-an-excuse/[/url] This nerdbiscuit guy has no idea what he is talking about, trust me, the guy who has never played the game or even bothered to do the basic levels of research necessary to speak about it.[/QUOTE] this person sounds like they don't even play video games
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47064172]I found a pretty obscure comment thread on GamerGhazi where some moderate AGGers actually agree with you - she used to be involved with pyramid schemes, she may not even like videogames, her arguments are full of logical fallacies and vague patriarchy-shaming, and there's a considered theory that she's just an actress for McIntosh. But either way - can you name someone, anyone else, with as much power as her who's brought issues facing women in games to light, no matter how radically presented? To the women devs who faced all kinds of trolling, employer discrimination, and actual harassment, who've been long frustrated about the treatment of women characters, and even just women gamers who have the same issues - how does a loud voice respected by the mainstream, who shares your frustrations and offers a solution, sound? Most of her supporters don't realize the problems with her argument, largely because of the hugboxing going on with her fanbase, but some do and still continue to support her. If the only famous voice for women equality in gaming was exposed as a con artist, what would that do for their movement? That's why they continue to support her. They doubt the problems in her videos can even do that much damage, just that she brings these issues to light.[/QUOTE] For every real issue she's brought up, she's brought up 10 more fake ones and she's made those invented ones the real import in all of her work. No, I can't name a more powerful person in that position. That doesn't mean she's what we should be supporting. We can have better. We can do better. Why should we settle for a real world scam artist who's being used as a human puppet by a white guy and she's not even offering good arguments?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47064218]For every real issue she's brought up, she's brought up 10 more fake ones and she's made those invented ones the real import in all of her work. No, I can't name a more powerful person in that position. That doesn't mean she's what we should be supporting. We can have better. We can do better. Why should we settle for a real world scam artist who's being used as a human puppet by a white guy and she's not even offering good arguments?[/QUOTE] *Male guy who is a literal racist and pro-1984 style world.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;47064217]this person sounds like they don't even play video games[/QUOTE] I just don't understand why you would intervene in Twitter "debates" about a topic you don't understand, especially to the point of making a longish blog post about it. If at any point you are typing "Well I don't know if this game did that thing but I'm pretty sure it did" maybe stop typing and go watch a Lets Play, at the very least?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47064248]I just don't understand why you would intervene in Twitter "debates" about a topic you don't understand, especially to the point of making a longish blog post about it. If at any point you are typing "Well I don't know if this game did that thing but I'm pretty sure it did" maybe stop typing and go watch a Lets Play, at the very least?[/QUOTE] because they don't care enough to actually have any idea what they're talking about but they do care enough to pretend they do
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47064218]That doesn't mean she's what we should be supporting. We can have better. We can do better. Why should we settle for a real world scam artist who's being used as a human puppet by a white guy and she's not even offering good arguments?[/QUOTE] Because we don't have any better - that's not my opinion, that's the sentiment of the informed AGGers who still support her. If we do get a better voice advocating for equality in games & game devs, it's not going to come out of antagonizing gamers versus X, or X versus SJWs. I haven't found any people who've said this yet, but it's my personal opinion that a new wave of voices advocating equality in gaming would be inspired from discussions between the moderates of pro and AGG.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47064298]Because we don't have any better - that's not my opinion, that's the sentiment of the informed AGGers who still support her. If we do get a better voice advocating for equality in games & game devs, it's not going to come out of antagonizing gamers versus X, or X versus SJWs. I haven't found any people who've said this yet, but it's my personal opinion that a new wave of voices advocating equality in gaming would be inspired from discussions between the moderates of pro and AGG.[/QUOTE] But there can't be discussion with AGG and GG because AGG maintains that we can't have a voice and shouldn't be allowed to, through the use of blocklists. So no, that's not a valid argument in my opinion. We're not going to get anyone better as long as there's a "hugbox" of supporters for her who refuse to look at their own view points and at hers. If they support her in the manner a hugbox would suggest, then they'll always have her back regardless of whether it's reasonable or not. What's crazy is just how many GGers are advocating equality but people are ignoring that wholesale to replace it with their own realities. She's a voice of antagonist opposition, and she's by your own definition, unfit for the role.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47064326]But there can't be discussion with AGG and GG because AGG maintains that we can't have a voice and shouldn't be allowed to, through the use of blocklists. So no, that's not a valid argument in my opinion. We're not going to get anyone better as long as there's a "hugbox" of supporters for her who refuse to look at their own view points and at hers. If they support her in the manner a hugbox would suggest, then they'll always have her back regardless of whether it's reasonable or not. What's crazy is just how many GGers are advocating equality but people are ignoring that wholesale to replace it with their own realities. She's a voice of antagonist opposition, and she's by your own definition, unfit for the role.[/QUOTE] IN the times that they DO discuss, they completely ignore what the other person is saying (See SRH vs. Massacre survivors) and attempt to switch the topic and commit basically every fallacy there is.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47064326]But there can't be discussion with AGG and GG because AGG maintains that we can't have a voice and shouldn't be allowed to, through the use of blocklists. So no, that's not a valid argument in my opinion. We're not going to get anyone better as long as there's a "hugbox" of supporters for her who refuse to look at their own view points and at hers. If they support her in the manner a hugbox would suggest, then they'll always have her back regardless of whether it's reasonable or not. What's crazy is just how many GGers are advocating equality but people are ignoring that wholesale to replace it with their own realities. She's a voice of antagonist opposition, and she's by your own definition, unfit for the role.[/QUOTE] I think the point is that to some it's not a matter of hugboxes but priorities. Which means if there was another feminist getting as much publicity as Sarkeesian but being more reasonable the moderates would dump here. Not like that's going to happen without her being completely ridiculed and widely discredited because the media (and most people) just care that much more about the harassment and knee-jerk reactions than doing anything properly and with care.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47063167]Generally I take posts about someone who works in an industry and is willing to come to your hangout to reinforce how dumb your opposition is with a mountain range of salt. That's the problem I see with this post. He talks about people buying this stuff like it's anything but a tiny niche market. I'm sure some obscure websites run advertising that appeals to people like this and have a vested financial interest in keeping them coming back, but I wouldn't say many, and I can't name a single video games website off the top of my head that it would apply to. In fairness though I never really followed much gaming media. The major difference is that these people really don't exist outside the internet in major numbers, unlike Tea Party adherents, who are a very real (unfortunately) power in American politics, being far more numerous and likely to vote. [/QUOTE] Yeah in retrospect he was a bit wrong but the points about extreme SJ being an interesting niche marget to target are believable. :/ Extreme SJ is becoming the Tea Party in behavior, but I don't expect them to become a viable political bloc because of how much they seem to hate the system and are unwilling to participate in it.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47064172]I found a pretty obscure comment thread on GamerGhazi where some moderate AGGers actually agree with you - she used to be involved with pyramid schemes, she may not even like videogames, her arguments are full of logical fallacies and vague patriarchy-shaming, and there's a considered theory that she's just an actress for McIntosh. But either way - can you name someone, anyone else, with as much power as her who's brought issues facing women in games to light, no matter how radically presented? To the women devs who faced all kinds of trolling, employer discrimination, and actual harassment, who've been long frustrated about the treatment of women characters, and even just women gamers who have the same issues - how does a loud voice respected by the mainstream, who shares your frustrations and offers a solution, sound? Most of her supporters don't realize the problems with her argument, largely because of the hugboxing going on with her fanbase, but some do and still continue to support her. If the only famous voice for women equality in gaming was exposed as a con artist, what would that do for their movement? That's why they continue to support her. They doubt the problems in her videos can even do that much damage, just that she brings these issues to light.[/QUOTE] exactly what women devs other than hamburger helper got shit? Hamburger helper was a dumbshit who couldnt write at all, said straight up she hated videogames and wished they were more like movies, wrote cringy as fuck dialogue that has to do with awkward shipping, and got her job with writing fan fics. It wasn't so much that she was a woman, its because she was a dumbass who couldnt write for shit. [editline]2nd February 2015[/editline] she was a female Anthony Burch without the memes and agenda pushing.
[QUOTE=uber.;47063899][QUOTE=https://twitter.com/kungfuman316/status/562405067559804928]BREAKING NEWS #GamerGate: @freebsdgirl is suspended![/QUOTE][/QUOTE] So what's next?
[QUOTE=uber.;47063899]-freebsdgirl-[/QUOTE] then suddenly back on twitter within a day, totally not special treatment [url]http://theralphretort.com/big-randi-harper-booted-from-twitter-cause-still-unknown-202015/[/url]
[QUOTE=Wii60;47064752]then suddenly back on twitter within a day, totally not special treatment [url]http://theralphretort.com/big-randi-harper-booted-from-twitter-cause-still-unknown-202015/[/url][/QUOTE] Honestly probably not. Do you think twitter cares? This has happened to people on GG side constantly, why is it different for her all the sudden? It was an automated ban from twitters stupid system.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47064167]Went to Ghazi to try and find a decent argument for Jade being a Damsel in Distress, got this [url]https://sphericalbullshit.wordpress.com/2015/02/02/the-damsel-in-distress-trope-and-why-but-shes-bad-ass-is-not-an-excuse/[/url] This nerdbiscuit guy has no idea what he is talking about, trust me, the guy who has never played the game or even bothered to do the basic levels of research necessary to speak about it.[/QUOTE] Like many others like him, his view sounds good in theory but the issue is nonexistent in practice. He didn't even have the humility to view an LP or post TB's other tweets relating to his criteria of DID.
[IMG]https://media.8ch.net/gamergate/src/1422915362027.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;47065199][IMG]https://media.8ch.net/gamergate/src/1422915362027.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] If there was any image showing how Feminist Frequency is working against the very cause they claim to promote, this is it.
I haven't played Dying Light, so I'm suspending my own judgement. Why? It's very easy for a writer to spin a complex, convincing explanation of how hard they worked to make something good when for all intents it's audience had received the work as bad. A good example might be the way Mark Twain characterizes blacks. That is, Twain who certainly had experiences with them and to his credit has been widely read as having made empathetic humanized characters, may actually have created racist and derogatory caricatures in the eyes of some people who certainly deserve to hold that opinion if they can support it. I do not doubt the fine folks behind Dying Light tried to make a trope-defying, nuanced, female character. I do not doubt FemFreq's critique is largely baseless, asinine and eskewed of the facts. However I do doubt that the testimony of someone closely involved with the creation of the character from toe to tip is reliable when it comes to, "But we tried so hard and made this character so empowered." At least, sight unseen for me. There's a clear interest in him choosing his owns words carefully. I can actually easily imagine a way to interpret their final product as having the corrosive misogyny in it that SJWs claim is so socially endemic. I may not think it's important, relevant or even bad for the product, but I also could not deny that the stuff they say is there is in fact there, if it really is.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;47065358]If there was any image showing how Feminist Frequency is working against the very cause they claim to promote, this is it.[/QUOTE] [del]Give me a few minutes, I'll put archive links on there so you can spam it all over the place :v:[/del] [editline]3rd February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;47065400]I haven't played Dying Light, so I'm suspending my own judgement. Why? [...][/QUOTE] That's true, I'll hold off making a properly sourced paste for the time being.
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