Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
5,003 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;47061824]Why is extra credits anti-GG anyway? Why is Jim Sterling anti-GG?[/QUOTE]
Pay more attention to Jim Sterling's videos. He almost never criticizes the press over anything, ever. Yes, he puts consumers before developers and publishers, but at the same time he puts the integrity of his own field of work before either of them. It's not often apparent as he usually just avoids mentioning other journalists or sites and points the finger at whatever publisher people are talking about that week. He will mostly admit to his own wrongdoing, but that isn't giving people the whole people.
I don't know Extra Credits that well, but if they have a reason for standing where they do it's not clear at all. My only guess is that they bought into Sessler's "war on indie devs" scenario and felt they needed to stop it from happening. They've always seemed pretty adamant about encouraging growth and experimentation and that's what people are relying on indie devs for.
[QUOTE=Doneeh;47061919]Who controls [URL="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gamergate"]RationalWiki[/URL]?
This seems a bit one-sided, and irrational.[/QUOTE]
As I mentioned in the old thread, Rationalwiki was a reaction to Conservapedia. The basic structure of the wiki, at least initially, was to serve as an explanation as to how Conservapedia and everything it promotes is irrational (as if we needed a wiki to know that), thus making objectivity and consideration of multiple viewpoints pretty much completely unwanted. The fact that there are people who are actually dedicated to such an elitist concept (as opposed to Conservapedia which is basically one nutjob and a bunch of trolls) pretty much guaranteed that they would eventually start shitting on other people as well, and they did.
I am sorry but I don't understand
Anita's first femfreq video came out almost two years ago now
How can you just say such obviously flawed statements even today and remain this relevant? Seriously...
"The current situation in gaming is bad. Women are portrayed in a sexist way like damsels in distress."
"Ah, okay. Here's a capable character who experiences some struggles as part of the storyline, but is shown to be capable of holding her own when the odds are not stacked against her."
"That's still wrong, that moment of weakness is proof that all you can see women as is objects which need to be rescued."
... So what [I]is[/I] the 'good portrayal' of women? Does Sarkeesian/ McIntosh have a [B]single[/B] example of a positive portrayal in the literally thousands of AAA games which have come out? I'm pretty certain that at some point in Revolution 60 or whatever it is, at least one of the female characters becomes in distress. Does that show that Brianna Wu and her studio are all showing a sexist stereotype?
[editline]3rd February 2015[/editline]
Also, isn't the 'villain brings hero/ supporting character to weakness' thing an [I]extremely[/I] common trope in all story-based media? I thought the whole point of the 'damsel in distress' thing was "Hey look, it's 1-dimensional Princess! You have to save her from evil villain man because she can't protect herself!", not "woman gets captured".
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;47065723]
Also, isn't the 'villain brings hero/ supporting character to weakness' thing an [I]extremely[/I] common trope in all story-based media? I thought the whole point of the 'damsel in distress' thing was "Hey look, it's 1-dimensional Princess! You have to save her from evil villain man because she can't protect herself!", not "woman gets captured".[/QUOTE]
I don't think Anita understands what a trope is at all, let alone what constitutes a particular one. Every single work of fiction can be viewed as a combination of tropes, because everything has become a trope over the centuries. The thing is, in literary studies the subversion of a a trope (which is so liked by TV tropes) [b]is a variation of a trope itself[/b]. Tropes become a problem when they're out of line in the story and put there as an obvious plot knot.
"Damsel in distress" - is a trope that is attached to a character, not the story itself. It's only applicable when it's a defining characteristic of a particular character. "Character, who is female, gets into a bad situation and requires help from another character, particularly male one" does not constitute DID. "Damsel" is a badly written female character, akin to a plot device commonly referred to as "McGuffin".
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;47065723]"The current situation in gaming is bad. Women are portrayed in a sexist way like damsels in distress."
"Ah, okay. Here's a capable character who experiences some struggles as part of the storyline, but is shown to be capable of holding her own when the odds are not stacked against her."
"That's still wrong, that moment of weakness is proof that all you can see women as is objects which need to be rescued."
... So what [I]is[/I] the 'good portrayal' of women? Does Sarkeesian/ McIntosh have a [B]single[/B] example of a positive portrayal in the literally thousands of AAA games which have come out? I'm pretty certain that at some point in Revolution 60 or whatever it is, at least one of the female characters becomes in distress. Does that show that Brianna Wu and her studio are all showing a sexist stereotype?
[editline]3rd February 2015[/editline]
Also, isn't the 'villain brings hero/ supporting character to weakness' thing an [I]extremely[/I] common trope in all story-based media? I thought the whole point of the 'damsel in distress' thing was "Hey look, it's 1-dimensional Princess! You have to save her from evil villain man because she can't protect herself!", not "woman gets captured".[/QUOTE]
I want to know what they think a positive portrayal is in any form of media. Maybe we can figure out from that why they don't think there is any good female characters in games.
[QUOTE=megafat;47066023]I want to know what they think a positive portrayal is in any form of media. Maybe we can figure out from that why they don't think there is any good female characters in games.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. All I've ever seen them do is bitch and moan that something is a negative portrayal of women, not even once have I seen them comment on something being a positive portrayal.
[video=youtube;acjRROKnbH4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acjRROKnbH4[/video]
great video
[QUOTE=gudman;47065859]I don't think Anita understands what a trope is at all, let alone what constitutes a particular one. Every single work of fiction can be viewed as a combination of tropes, because everything has become a trope over the centuries. The thing is, in literary studies the subversion of a a trope (which is so liked by TV tropes) [b]is a variation of a trope itself[/b]. Tropes become a problem when they're out of line in the story and put there as an obvious plot knot.
"Damsel in distress" - is a trope that is attached to a character, not the story itself. It's only applicable when it's a defining characteristic of a particular character. "Character, who is female, gets into a bad situation and requires help from another character, particularly male one" does not constitute DID. "Damsel" is a badly written female character, akin to a plot device commonly referred to as "McGuffin".[/QUOTE]
The only game that did this in recent times was Anitas favourite, Mirrors Edge.
And what if anita/fullmcintosh and people like them had it their way? GTA 5 is the first of a long list of games getting banned
I don't care if among a sea of lies and bullshit she has a couple of good points, I'm not going to let them trample over my hobby and livelihood in their quest for better representation in their bank accounts
[QUOTE=megafat;47066023]I want to know what they think a positive portrayal is in any form of media. Maybe we can figure out from that why they don't think there is any good female characters in games.[/QUOTE]
Because it doesn't make BIG $$$$
I guarantee you that any website with clickbait articles gets higher average views on women being harassed articles rather than women doing anything good in the media. Kotaku probably made more on "Zoe Quinn harassment" articles than the one about her putting a chip with Deus Ex in her finger. I would search the site for # of comments or views if they have it, but they don't need my views.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47066207][video=youtube;acjRROKnbH4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acjRROKnbH4[/video]
great video[/QUOTE]
shit video imo, it keeps repeating itself and asking questions like it's a 9/11 conspiracy video.
and trying to claim that videogame tropes apply to real life people.
c'mon now.
[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;47065199][IMG]https://media.8ch.net/gamergate/src/1422915362027.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
So by that logic, Alyx is a Damsel in Distress because she gets ambushed and captured once, but let's nevermind the fact she had been fighting alongside you the entire time, even taking care of things that Gordon couldn't.
I think FemFreq are just looking for reasons to complain. Just ONCE I'd like to see a "good" female character.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;47066733]So by that logic, Alyx is a Damsel in Distress because she gets ambushed and captured once, but let's nevermind the fact she had been fighting alongside you the entire time, even taking care of things that Gordon couldn't.
I think FemFreq are just looking for reasons to complain. Just ONCE I'd like to see a "good" female character.[/QUOTE]
Tomb Raider (2013's) Lara Croft is also a Damsel in Distres since she cannot get out of the island by her own and she has to wait for help from Navy
[QUOTE=fhASSA;47066517][IMG]http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/908/017/fb3.png[/IMG]
What?[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;7qKcJF4fOPs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qKcJF4fOPs[/video]
(didn't stop some retard journalist from saying pizzagate was about harrassment because of this)
[editline]3rd February 2015[/editline]
I missed fullmcintosh spilling his spaghetti everywhere
[URL]http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2umhka/jonathan_mcintosh_writes_stupid_shit_gets_6_likes/[/URL]
For the lazy:
Tweet from 2012
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/17MNiJE.png[/IMG]
Tweet from 2014 by "Anita Sarkeesian"
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/rO6erf9.png[/IMG]
The original tweet got deleted like an hour after this was posted on KiA
You have to be a special kind of stupid to still not have picked up that deleting tweets doesn't work and only makes you look even more shady
God, imagine spending hours and hours a day filtering through twitter and reddit and just trying to bullshit each other
What a sad, wasted life.
She used that quote in the first Tropes vs Women video she made. I don't know why McIntosh would delete the original tweet, everyone knows they collaborate.
Wasn't Brianna Wu's patreon meant to be going down at the end of january? Cause it's still up.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;47067312]She used that quote in the first Tropes vs Women video she made. I don't know why McIntosh would delete the original tweet, everyone knows they collaborate.[/QUOTE]
I think it's supposed to be an example of the irony of things once you realize McIntosh is just a sleezebag using Sarkeesian and feminism as a tool to make loads emone.
I don't think he even actually cares about women. He looked at the internet, saw the rise of social justice, and realized he could make easy money off of it. The whole thing is a scam, it's designed to create controversy and stifle dialogue, and everyone is falling for it, giving them exactly what they want. Imagine all the exposure they got from angry neckbeards making youtube videos about them, the constant twitter parade, idiots on 8chan giving them constant attention.
Business people have spontaneous orgasms when they see it. It's the most successful marketing campaign ever. And the best thing? They can't fuck up. No one outside the gaming industry gives a shit about videogames.
Remember when gamergate was about corruption in journalism, and not about social justice warriors saying retarded things? Stop giving these people attention, it only makes them stronger. Stop mudwrestling pigs. You both get covered in shit, and the pig likes it.
They're going to get attention from Gaming media anyways, even if they became irrelevant they would force themselves back to relevancy because they were harassed by a random twitter user or something.
Exposure could also expose their poor points and hypocrisy making them less credible.
Also these SJWs are pretty much the advocates for corruption and straight up no different than a tea party extremist, they're just forcing their agenda into it and anyone that disagrees with them is absolutely horrible. They're just tools for the corrupt journalists to use as a defense.
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;47067437]Wasn't Brianna Wu's patreon meant to be going down at the end of january? Cause it's still up.[/QUOTE]
Considering the people who work at Patreon, she probably will just get a minor slap to the wrist and that's it.
[QUOTE=Datsun;47067532]Considering the people who work at Patreon, she probably will just get a minor slap to the wrist and that's it.[/QUOTE]
That's what I'm thinking might have happend "Yeah guys, she's totally against our new policies that she in part helped us refine, so we'll totally suspend her account...promise..."
[QUOTE=V12US;47067446]
Remember when gamergate was about corruption in journalism, and not about social justice warriors saying retarded things? Stop giving these people attention, it only makes them stronger. Stop mudwrestling pigs. You both get covered in shit, and the pig likes it.[/QUOTE]
I try to avoid the topic whenever possible, I just wish people in this thread would do the same.
The first time I called it out some guy tried telling me "It's all we can discuss!" No, it's not.
If you want to post about brianna wu's latest tweet/scheme you should probably go to tumblrinaction, where that's ALL they post about.
[QUOTE=V12US;47067446]Remember when gamergate was about corruption in journalism, and not about social justice warriors saying retarded things? Stop giving these people attention, it only makes them stronger. Stop mudwrestling pigs. You both get covered in shit, and the pig likes it.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I do and things change. It's about gaming culture now AND corruption in journalism. Why can't we have both? What are you, the leader of gamergate?
McIntosh isn't a random SJW on twitter, he's one of the people that's trying to force the gaming industry into political correctedness. You could argue that femfreq got so popular because people were outraged by it, yeah I would agree.
Too late, too bad, we're way past that point.
People like him need to be constantly called out for their bullshit or said bullshit become publicly accepted. And "called out" means showing the world how ridiculous the stuff he says are, not argue with him on twitter.
Also, it's funny and if you've got something more important to announce by all means you've got the floor
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47067675]Yeah I do and things change. It's about gaming culture now AND corruption in journalism. Why can't we have both? What are you, the leader of gamergate?
McIntosh isn't a random SJW on twitter, he's one of the people that's trying to force the gaming industry into political correctedness. You could argue that femfreq got so popular because people were outraged by it, yeah I would agree.
Too late, too bad, we're way past that point.
People like him need to be constantly called out for their bullshit or said bullshit become publicly accepted. And "called out" means showing the world how ridiculous the stuff he says are, not argue with him on twitter.
Also, it's funny and if you've got something more important to announce by all means you've got the floor[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what I was talking about. Do you honestly believe the PC SJW conspirators are coming to take away your games and bring about a dark age of equality? Posts like these are ammo for those people. His bullshit was already accepted, hence the people defending him and being able to write for a half-million dollar Youtube channel, but even a lot of AGG moderates have tried to distance themselves from him, for months now. How is stalking everything he says and does, insulting everything he thinks (which seems like fair criticism to us, but easily interpreted as harassment by anyone who isn't us), going to do anything? Nobody on the internet backs down in defeat, they just become louder and more entrenched in their views, you're on FP so you should know this better than anybody.
The way to get people to stop listening to him is to stop listening to him.
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47067675]Yeah I do and things change. It's about gaming culture now AND corruption in journalism. Why can't we have both? What are you, the leader of gamergate?
McIntosh isn't a random SJW on twitter, he's one of the people that's trying to force the gaming industry into political correctedness. You could argue that femfreq got so popular because people were outraged by it, yeah I would agree.
Too late, too bad, we're way past that point.
People like him need to be constantly called out for their bullshit or said bullshit become publicly accepted. And "called out" means showing the world how ridiculous the stuff he says are, not argue with him on twitter.
Also, it's funny and if you've got something more important to announce by all means you've got the floor[/QUOTE]
p. sure 90% of the exposure these people are getting are precisely because you guys won't stop stalking their Twitter feeds for sick zingers. Most people on the Internet had no fucking idea who McIntosh was, who Wu was, etc. until GG started and people started spreading their stupider moments.
With these kinds of platforms and people, ignoring them is the only option that won't make you look like a fucking ass. "Calling them out" has done shit all but reinforce them in their views, in the exact same way their attempts to "call out" GG supporters has done. Ignore them and stop giving them a chance to be heard and they fuck off.
Sarkesians Kickstarter would have flown under the radar if fucking idiots didn't blow up about it. Wu wouldn't be able to self insert constantly if people didn't latch on to her Twitter feed the second she made a single tweet on the subject. You guys are your own worst enemy some times.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47067774]This is exactly what I was talking about. Do you honestly believe the PC SJW conspirators are coming to take away your games and bring about a dark age of equality? Posts like these are ammo for those people. His bullshit was already accepted, hence the people defending him and being able to write for a half-million dollar Youtube channel, but even a lot of AGG moderates have tried to distance themselves from him, for months now. How is stalking everything he says and does, insulting everything he thinks (which seems like fair criticism to us, but easily interpreted as harassment by anyone who isn't us), going to do anything? Nobody on the internet backs down in defeat, they just become louder and more entrenched in their views, you're on FP so you should know this better than anybody.
[B][I][U]The way to get people to stop listening to him is to stop listening to him.[/U][/I][/B][/QUOTE]
That's what you told me about miley cyrus and where are we now?!?!
Seriously though, that advice was true when this all started, but I think it's too late now. Even if GG did stop paying attention to say, Anita, she would still be making public appearances I think.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47067774]Do you honestly believe the PC SJW conspirators are coming to take away your games and bring about a dark age of equality?[/QUOTE]
No, I'm saying they wouldn't hesitate to do it given the chance, not that they actually have the chance to succeed.
But that doesn't mean they can't do damage, fucking hell did we already forget what happened to Divinity: Original Sin? No evil gamergate giving them ammo back then.
Also lol, "equality"
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47067774]How is stalking everything he says and does, insulting everything he thinks (which seems like fair criticism to us, but easily interpreted as harassment by anyone who isn't us), going to do anything?[/QUOTE]
Holy shit you just destroyed that poor strawman right there
Are you going to argue copy pasting something he said on twitter "stalking everything he says and does"? And "insulting everything he thinks" is kind of funny given I haven't even said anything about the content of that tweet
[url]http://nyar.itch.io/lamergate[/url]
Someone made a goofy game where you gotta take down those evil nasty Gamergaters.
What can you say to a guy that believes that all of GG are assholes, and when you try to say that trolls exist everywhere he goes "no true scotsman", saying that whenever there are GG trolls everybody just says they're not the "real GG", demanding to know who the real GG are?
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