• Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
    5,003 replies, posted
If you can agree that assholes are everywhere on the internet, if someone is harrassing someone else the fact they are a gamergate supporter has as much relevance as his/her race, gender and religious beliefs: none whatsoever. Gamergate is about games, and the vast majority of gamergate hate assholes just as much as everyone else
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47067976]What can you say to a guy that believes that all of GG are assholes, and when you try to say that trolls exist everywhere he goes "no true scotsman", saying that whenever there are GG trolls everybody just says they're not the "real GG", demanding to know who the real GG are?[/QUOTE] You can start by showing them the twitter feeds of some of the more prominent GG'ers like Oliver Campbell and ask them to find any evidence of these people being "trolls". That's all I can think of. If that doesn't change any minds they were probably hopeless to begin with. In other news: [URL="https://archive.today/M7OfM"]Biddlebums is trying to paint Jace as a dangerous psycho.[/URL]
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;47068058]You can start by showing them the twitter feeds of some of the more prominent GG'ers like Oliver Campbell and ask them to find any evidence of these people being "trolls". That's all I can think of. If that doesn't change any minds they were probably hopeless to begin with. [/QUOTE] In his mind, "proper GG" are Cerno/Nero/etc, and he says he "doesn't like TotalBiscuit"
[url]http://techraptor.net/content/state-gaming-media-interview-allistair-pinsof-part-1[/url] [QUOTE]A year ago, this fantastic YouTuber Super Bunny Hop was going to tell my story. I trusted him so I gave him my complete honest story along with documented proof backing everything I said. After a couple interviews and emails, I realized how much it was stressing me out to dig that stuff back up so I backed out. He was really cool about everything and remains one of my favorite YouTubers. Here’s the kicker: He voiced concern throughout that he was worried if he’d be blacklist by the media himself by telling my story. He eventually joined the Game Journo Pros group. Now he won’t even respond to me[/QUOTE] [editline]3rd February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE] It’s become increasingly difficult to find a site that hasn’t had recent controversy over funding, living with, or having unprofessional relationships with the subjects they are reporting on or critiquing. Online game journalism and the indie game dev scene are both young and full of people who matured in the industry together. It seems natural that these people will be friendly and familiar with each other via various trade shows, industry parties, and press junkets. But when you are writing about your roommate and friends’ games for months without disclosing or when the Chairman of the IGF is in a private group with other game journalists and journalists-turned-PR, that is betraying your readers’ trust. Instead of being responsible, admitting mistakes and seeking to repair, they denied, dismissed or retaliated against critics, many of whom are their readers and fans. The general cronyism and boy’s club mentality of the games press created a culture where decisions to collectively affect people’s lives, negatively or possibly, can easily be made via the Game Journo Pros group, which was what happened to me. I don’t buy into any conspiracy theories but it is human nature that such a group where authority and power is held can cause parties, who should act independently in their readers’ interest and own moral compass, to cave to peer pressure instead. It also builds a culture where ethical breaches at companies will be ignored by others in faith others will do the same for them, should the time come. Media reporting on media is never normal or easy but there have been many instances where this should have happened in the past year but didn’t.[/QUOTE]
"Are you familiar with the ways that a movement operate? Because it involves certain levels of culpability of its members at least as far as the "group" as a whole is colored by its actions. That's why the "um actually it's about ethics in games journalism" was a joke. You can't have someone be bullied by GG, then correct them when they hate GG. They have no reason to give a fuck what it's ACTUALLY about if they're witnessing the group setting fire to cars and laughing. You again are telling me that I'm dismissing the actions of GG because of how they have hurt people. That's exactly how it works. Every time I look at GG, it's all rants about wu and anita and zoe, and harassment campaigns and horseshit. Even if the 'ethics' aspect did anything but updating policies on Gawker and one line in the FTC FAQ page, I don't care because it is visibly antifeminism and misogynistic, and I want nothing to do with it. Don't correct what I witness."
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47067774]This is exactly what I was talking about. Do you honestly believe the PC SJW conspirators are coming to take away your games and bring about a dark age of equality? Posts like these are ammo for those people. His bullshit was already accepted, hence the people defending him and being able to write for a half-million dollar Youtube channel, but even a lot of AGG moderates have tried to distance themselves from him, for months now. How is stalking everything he says and does, insulting everything he thinks (which seems like fair criticism to us, but easily interpreted as harassment by anyone who isn't us), going to do anything? Nobody on the internet backs down in defeat, they just become louder and more entrenched in their views, you're on FP so you should know this better than anybody. The way to get people to stop listening to him is to stop listening to him.[/QUOTE] I don't understand, are you saying we should stop pointing out that FemFreq's rhetoric is fallacious and self-contradictory? All of this because it could be misconstrued as harassment by idiots? I'm sorry, but to believe that the best way to deal with this problem is to wait it out when Sarkeesian is already spreading bullshit all over the news à la Jack Thompson while the VG press supports her is foolish at best. What exactly is wrong about pointing out how inconsistent and how much of a blatant scam it all is, as long as you do it rationally? If you think this way because AS is the 'only' figure you think can point out misrepresentation of women in gaming, let me say that you have a rather impractical view of things. What exactly do you think AS brings to the table with her series? Because it certainly isn't better representation. If anything, the only way to satisfy all of her contradictory criterion would be to stop making games altogether.
[QUOTE=V12US;47067446]I think it's supposed to be an example of the irony of things once you realize McIntosh is just a sleezebag using Sarkeesian and feminism as a tool to make loads emone. I don't think he even actually cares about women. He looked at the internet, saw the rise of social justice, and realized he could make easy money off of it. The whole thing is a scam, it's designed to create controversy and stifle dialogue, and everyone is falling for it, giving them exactly what they want. Imagine all the exposure they got from angry neckbeards making youtube videos about them, the constant twitter parade, idiots on 8chan giving them constant attention. Business people have spontaneous orgasms when they see it. It's the most successful marketing campaign ever. And the best thing? They can't fuck up. No one outside the gaming industry gives a shit about videogames. Remember when gamergate was about corruption in journalism, and not about social justice warriors saying retarded things? Stop giving these people attention, it only makes them stronger. Stop mudwrestling pigs. You both get covered in shit, and the pig likes it.[/QUOTE] Nope, [URL="https://web.archive.org/web/20040803032816/http://www.capedmaskedandarmed.com/about.html"]unfortunately he seems to have legitimately taken the wrong conclusions from a (national) identity crisis[/URL][URL="https://archive.today/cJKtI"].[/URL] He wouldn't jump ship even if it went all sideways, considering that he did some outright money-destroying "public appearances" before starting at FemFreq. The upshot of all this is that it's likely Sarkeesian would kick him out of the project once he becomes too much of a liability, because as much as I dislike what she does she's not an idiot.
[QUOTE=_Axel;47068170]I don't understand, are you saying we should stop pointing out that FemFreq's rhetoric is fallacious and self-contradictory? All of this because it could be misconstrued as harassment by idiots? I'm sorry, but to believe that the best way to deal with this problem is to wait it out when Sarkeesian is already spreading bullshit all over the news à la Jack Thompson while the VG press supports her is foolish at best. What exactly is wrong about pointing out how inconsistent and how much of a blatant scam it all is, as long as you do it rationally? If you think this way because AS is the 'only' figure you think can point out misrepresentation of women in gaming, let me say that you have a rather impractical view of things. What exactly do you think AS brings to the table with her series? Because it certainly isn't better representation. If anything, the only way to satisfy all of her contradictory criterion would be to stop making games altogether.[/QUOTE] "http://t.co/HMQ3fFnIY7 <- this is not pointing out a rhetoric you think is fallacious." [editline]3rd February 2015[/editline] [url]http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/109319269825/one-week-of-harassment-on-twitter[/url] would be the clickable link for that
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47067774]This is exactly what I was talking about. Do you honestly believe the PC SJW conspirators are coming to take away your games and bring about a dark age of equality? Posts like these are ammo for those people. His bullshit was already accepted, hence the people defending him and being able to write for a half-million dollar Youtube channel, but even a lot of AGG moderates have tried to distance themselves from him, for months now. How is stalking everything he says and does, insulting everything he thinks (which seems like fair criticism to us, but easily interpreted as harassment by anyone who isn't us), going to do anything? Nobody on the internet backs down in defeat, they just become louder and more entrenched in their views, you're on FP so you should know this better than anybody. The way to get people to stop listening to him is to stop listening to him.[/QUOTE] It raises awareness of his less tolerable stances, which, believe it or not, actually is enough to get a ton of really fairly disinterested people not to casually support him. Or even to casually oppose him like when he made those Charlie Hebdo (re)tweets.
To be how many have actually interracted with any of the inner circle of Anti-Gamers? The only time I did was telling McIntosh his little JeNeSuisPasCharlie campaign was bullshit.
This guy started passive agressive subtweeting, that's when I know when to give up. Lost cause.
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47068208]"http://t.co/HMQ3fFnIY7 <- this is not pointing out a rhetoric you think is fallacious." [editline]3rd February 2015[/editline] [URL]http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/109319269825/one-week-of-harassment-on-twitter[/URL] would be the clickable link for that[/QUOTE] I can count the amount of times the gamergate hashtag is used there on one hand, assholes everywhere remember? Show me the 8chan or KiA thread where gamergate organizes or brags about harrassing anita [QUOTE=JesseR92;47068234]To be how many have actually interracted with any of the inner circle of Anti-Gamers? The only time I did was telling McIntosh his little JeNeSuisPasCharlie campaign was bullshit.[/QUOTE] Never interacted with anyone, I have no hope nor interest of chaging any of their minds
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47068249]I can count the amount of times the gamergate hashtag is used there on one hand, assholes everywhere remember? Show me the 8chan or KiA thread where gamergate organizes or brags about harrassing anita[/QUOTE] He pointed to this as an example of gamergate assholery on 8chan [url]https://twitter.com/tha_rami/status/562500654380228608[/url]
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47068270]He pointed to this as an example of gamergate assholery on 8chan [URL]https://twitter.com/tha_rami/status/562500654380228608[/URL][/QUOTE] Well poor research by one single person for sure, is this the worst of gamergate's crimes?
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47068270]He pointed to this as an example of gamergate assholery on 8chan [url]https://twitter.com/tha_rami/status/562500654380228608[/url][/QUOTE] that's not really harassment just poor research
[QUOTE=EmperorVagak;47067887][url]http://nyar.itch.io/lamergate[/url] Someone made a goofy game where you gotta take down those evil nasty Gamergaters.[/QUOTE] Pretty fun. Are those Megaman 7 sprites?
[QUOTE=JesseR92;47068234]To be how many have actually interracted with any of the inner circle of Anti-Gamers? The only time I did was telling McIntosh his little JeNeSuisPasCharlie campaign was bullshit.[/QUOTE] I know one person and he/she reads this thread, although I am not allowed to say who he/she is. There's another but I haven't been able to contact them for awhile, same deal.
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47068208][url=http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/109319269825/one-week-of-harassment-on-twitter]This[/url] is not pointing out a rhetoric you think is fallacious.[/QUOTE] Yeah and it also has nothing to do with Ryo Ohki's post.
[QUOTE=EmperorVagak;47067887][url]http://nyar.itch.io/lamergate[/url] Someone made a goofy game where you gotta take down those evil nasty Gamergaters.[/QUOTE] That's actually relatively decent. I like how the best tactic is to spam attacks all over the place without taking care to aim them properly :v:
[QUOTE=EmperorVagak;47067887][url]http://nyar.itch.io/lamergate[/url] Someone made a goofy game where you gotta take down those evil nasty Gamergaters.[/QUOTE] Small update: It seems the maker replaced the boss sprite. It was originally a picture of a pixelated Milo. Now it's just another fedora neckbeard. :v:
I find it weird how all GG people are generalised as neckbeard-y fedora-wearing overweight people. Isn't that kind of... y'know, anti-body positivity? Not to mention that no key GG figures wear fedoras or even have neckbeards (the closest are TB and- when he was still involved- Boogie, but that's just because they have beards). I'm tired of how anti-GG people have a double standard for literally every single thing they decry. How long until a Gamergater is attacked (with blatant evidence such as a video of the entire incident) and they find some way to blame the victim? [editline]3rd February 2015[/editline] I'm tempted to make a video about Gamergate, actually, without informing watchers of my gender. Because I'm a trans woman, bigoted people will assume I'm a dude, say about how I don't know what it's like because I'm a white cishet guy, and then I can just laugh at them. :v:
[QUOTE=Wii60;47068095][url]http://techraptor.net/content/state-gaming-media-interview-allistair-pinsof-part-1[/url] [quote]A year ago, this fantastic YouTuber Super Bunny Hop was going to tell my story. I trusted him so I gave him my complete honest story along with documented proof backing everything I said. After a couple interviews and emails, I realized how much it was stressing me out to dig that stuff back up so I backed out. He was really cool about everything and remains one of my favorite YouTubers. Here’s the kicker: He voiced concern throughout that he was worried if he’d be blacklist by the media himself by telling my story. He eventually joined the Game Journo Pros group. Now he won’t even respond to me [b][...][/b][/quote] [...][/QUOTE][bold [...] added by me, other is a normal omission] You changed the sentiment of that paragraph quite a bit by hacking it off. I think it's very important to make that as clear as possible in such a case.
[QUOTE=EmperorVagak;47067887][url]http://nyar.itch.io/lamergate[/url] Someone made a goofy game where you gotta take down those evil nasty Gamergaters.[/QUOTE] Okay, so, first hashtag I see is Menienist. [B]IT WAS A FUCKING JOKE.[/B] Holy Fuck, how do these people live.
[QUOTE=Swilly;47068573]Okay, so, first hashtag I see is Menienist. [B]IT WAS A FUCKING JOKE.[/B] Holy Fuck, how do these people live.[/QUOTE] The whole thing is a joke though, getting angry over it is silly.
[QUOTE=EmperorVagak;47067887][url]http://nyar.itch.io/lamergate[/url] Someone made a goofy game where you gotta take down those evil nasty Gamergaters.[/QUOTE] tap spacebar till you win only black character in the game is a unlockable and isn't available at the start and the rest are white people 0/10 - shitlord status
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47068208]"http://t.co/HMQ3fFnIY7 <- this is not pointing out a rhetoric you think is fallacious." [editline]3rd February 2015[/editline] [url]http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/109319269825/one-week-of-harassment-on-twitter[/url] would be the clickable link for that[/QUOTE] I think I said this to someone elsewhere before, but... that's a surprisingly low amount (quantitatively) for a week. I would expect someone to get more with the amount of terribleness that is current FemFreq.
Especially considering many of these are as bad as a "fuck you" most popular youtubers have it much worse I had a theory for a while and it turns out kazerad had actually written one of his essays about it, so I'll let him do the writing: [URL]http://kazerad.tumblr.com/post/109585139443/privilege[/URL] Basically: the reason why people are so outraged at this is because they have NO IDEA what the internet is like. Now the question is, are Anita & co. just ignorant or are they purposefully playing dumb to cause outrage in the other people who don't get the internet? I have my theories.
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47068167]"Are you familiar with the ways that a movement operate? Because it involves certain levels of culpability of its members at least as far as the "group" as a whole is colored by its actions. That's why the "um actually it's about ethics in games journalism" was a joke. You can't have someone be bullied by GG, then correct them when they hate GG. They have no reason to give a fuck what it's ACTUALLY about if they're witnessing the group setting fire to cars and laughing. You again are telling me that I'm dismissing the actions of GG because of how they have hurt people. That's exactly how it works. Every time I look at GG, it's all rants about wu and anita and zoe, and harassment campaigns and horseshit. Even if the 'ethics' aspect did anything but updating policies on Gawker and one line in the FTC FAQ page, I don't care because it is visibly antifeminism and misogynistic, and I want nothing to do with it. Don't correct what I witness."[/QUOTE] There are no harassment campaigns. The closest I could think of was the eceleb type of posts, but it's intended to show that the opposiing side isn't perfect. They only show dumb posts about the millennial conservative boogeymen, mailing campaigns, and the tweets like aGG ecelebs. Ghazi pretty much does the same thing, some of them even planned to email 8ch's domain provider with Foldable Human's link. [editline]3rd February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Jamsponge;47068477]I find it weird how all GG people are generalised as neckbeard-y fedora-wearing overweight people. Isn't that kind of... y'know, anti-body positivity? Not to mention that no key GG figures wear fedoras or even have neckbeards (the closest are TB and- when he was still involved- Boogie, but that's just because they have beards). I'm tired of how anti-GG people have a double standard for literally every single thing they decry. How long until a Gamergater is attacked (with blatant evidence such as a video of the entire incident) and they find some way to blame the victim? [editline]3rd February 2015[/editline] I'm tempted to make a video about Gamergate, actually, without informing watchers of my gender. Because I'm a trans woman, bigoted people will assume I'm a dude, say about how I don't know what it's like because I'm a white cishet guy, and then I can just laugh at them. :v:[/QUOTE] I fully accept their beliefs, but I'm disappointed on how most of them don't practice what they preach at all.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;47069183]There are no harassment campaigns. The closest I could think of was the eceleb type of posts, but it's intended to show that the opposiing side isn't perfect. They only show dumb posts about the millennial conservative boogeymen, mailing campaigns, and the tweets like aGG ecelebs. Ghazi pretty much does the same thing, some of them even planned to email 8ch's domain provider with Foldable Human's link.[/QUOTE] If there was, it was very ineffective : See here [t]https://i.imgur.com/BPDprso.png[/t] 0.002 percent of tweets were harassment out of 133,015 tweets. "This data is unreliable!!"
Brianna Wu's game is on steam greenlight (i dont think it has been accepted) and shes deleting negative comments reguarding the game on the discussion board.
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