• Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
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[QUOTE=Monkah;47091189]we've said that about a lot of things, and have been wrong numerous times[/QUOTE] Yeah I'm gonna go on record here and say this [QUOTE]The fact that feminism is getting pushed into K-12 programs at all is terrifying. Imagine your 7 year old son and daughter coming home from school. Your daughter calls you a misogynist and says she's afraid of being raped. Your son develops severe depression and anxiety because he's told he expresses "toxic masculinity." Simply horrifying.[/QUOTE] isn't gonna happen. It's also a grievous misunderstanding of feminism.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that your 7 year old will be calling you misogynistic, but it's VERY plausible that 3rd wave feminism has a high chance of creeping into elementary education without anyone knowing. Colleges are very liberal places. They are also one of the main places where 3rd wave feminism thrives and flourishes. It's not that far of a stretch to believe that a graduate who embraces this form of world view could try to introduce it to kids before they reach an age where they can think critically of what's being told to them by an educator. I'm not saying it will happen. I can't see the future. I'm just saying that it's not hard to believe that it could happen. It just wouldn't be implemented by common core or the government as the ADL seems to say. It would just be a few individual educators.
I think 3rd wave feminism creeping into k-12 is the least of our worries when it comes to early education. At least in my experience, half of our school teachers were football coaches that lacked even the most basic knowledge of the course work, whether that be math, science, or history. Specifically when it comes to history, I think anyone who just goes through public education already has to re-educate themselves once they reach college, or even if they are simply interested in studying history as a hobby. I fail to see the impact that 3rd wave feminism will potentially cause to children's education, when patriotism and religion are much more serious issues that are at this moment causing harm with the immediate threat of causing even more.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47089725][url]http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/education-outreach/is-gaming-a-boys-club.pdf[/url][/QUOTE] [quote]Marketed primarily to boys and men, video games do not have a good track record when it comes to positively including girls and women.[/quote] You could replace "video games" with "beer commercials", "football games", "action movies", or anything else that has a male dominated target audience. That aside I see way more oversexed woman on prime-time TV commercials than I do in my games, so why are you specifically targeting us? [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;47091418]I think 3rd wave feminism creeping into k-12 is the least of our worries when it comes to early education.[/QUOTE] One of my friends had a "feminist" teacher, which was apparently very annoying a good portion of her assignments reflected that.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47091428]One of my friends had a "feminist" teacher, which was apparently very annoying a good portion of her assignments reflected that.[/QUOTE] I've had feminist teachers as well, as well as ones that hate Vietnamese due to the American war in Vietnam. Even at the college level there are teachers with harmful biases, the difference is at the lower levels students aren't taught to think for themselves so they can filter out the junk. I guess my point is that while ideology influencing education is bad the real problem is that we don't teach children the basics of philosophy, so that they can find the truth for themselves.
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;47091418]I think 3rd wave feminism creeping into k-12 is the least of our worries when it comes to early education. At least in my experience, half of our school teachers were football coaches that lacked even the most basic knowledge of the course work, whether that be math, science, or history. Specifically when it comes to history, I think anyone who just goes through public education already has to re-educate themselves once they reach college, or even if they are simply interested in studying history as a hobby. I fail to see the impact that 3rd wave feminism will potentially cause to children's education, when patriotism and religion are much more serious issues that are at this moment causing harm with the immediate threat of causing even more.[/QUOTE] What'd happen is that if these lesson plans were implanted, a vast majority of students would blow them off and/or consider it a quick way to boost their grade because that's what students do. You'll get a small minority of students embrace it, but frankly they'd probably learn about it from elsewhere and embrace it no matter what.
[QUOTE=Ziron;47091495]What'd happen is that if these lesson plans were implanted, a vast majority of students would blow them off and/or consider it a quick way to boost their grade because that's what students do. You'll get a small minority of students embrace it, but frankly they'd probably learn about it from elsewhere and embrace it no matter what.[/QUOTE] Pretty much the same thing that happens with every ideology and bullshit like that. Most kids know that most of what they're taught in schools is bullshit, any supposed conspiracy to brainwash kids into becoming 3rd-wave feminists would fail simply because it'd just be another thing most students would file under the "bullshit" category.
Kids question everything thats where alot of idealogues and narrative pushers run into issues they arnt used to their opinions being challenged.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47091428]You could replace "video games" with "beer commercials", "football games", "action movies", or anything else that has a male dominated target audience. That aside I see way more oversexed woman on prime-time TV commercials than I do in my games, so why are you specifically targeting us? [editline]7th February 2015[/editline] One of my friends had a "feminist" teacher, which was apparently very annoying a good portion of her assignments reflected that.[/QUOTE] We laugh at that, but that's EXACTLY how people view things. That's the approach and mindset people like Anita have. [QUOTE]I believe video games can have a negative effect on attitudes and perspectives in general. I believe video games can perpetuate sexism.[/QUOTE] It's all built on what people believe, not what they can prove. It's like fighting a religion.
Focus on dumbshit that journo websites post, not anything else.
[QUOTE=Ziron;47091495]What'd happen is that if these lesson plans were implanted, a vast majority of students would blow them off and/or consider it a quick way to boost their grade because that's what students do. You'll get a small minority of students embrace it, but frankly they'd probably learn about it from elsewhere and embrace it no matter what.[/QUOTE] Although these are really "common sense" or vaguely "obvious" sounding views, that is that children reject a lot of what they learn as "bullshit", they aren't really true. Or atleast demonstrably. Most people (read kids) reasonably assume that what they are taught is not only factually sound but that the moral content of it is sound as well. A really easy way to glimpse this can be seen with opinion polls on the American Civil War. In the south, state curriculum often includes portions that paint the North negatively, like Sherman's March to the Sea and Grant's doctrine of Total War. In the north, state curriculum usually glosses over certain poignant but non-critical war facts like Sherman's Bowties or the massive difference in army casualty numbers. Instead they make the war out to be a moral crusade for Slavery and usually sum it up with "and then the good guys won." This in turn multiplies out to a very real, very neatly felt public opinion later in life. A more stark one without any risk of background cultural influence is the perception of Nazi Germany and Hitler. It's not uncommon for people with the most basic education to take away the narrative of "Hitler was beloved by evil jew hating nazis of naziland. Then some stuff happened and America won the war." But that honestly is not a genuine account of the war. People who learn more about Germany during the time period actually often refer back to their earlier understandings of it, rather than form more nuanced versions of their understanding. It's very difficult to accept the idea that, maybe, some of the Nazi Chiefs of Staff were actually better people than some of the American Generals. Alternatively the way history books handle Ghandi is also good. Most people have cultivated the strong mental image of him as a gentle, loving man who freed his nation with compassion. They fail to account for the brutal and corrupt nationalistic pseudo-monarchy that followed him. India in fact just disappears from the textbook right around the time it stops mentioning Ghandi. All of these are the issue of Primacy of Knowledge. That is, the first thing you learn about the subject may in fact be the only thing your remember about it, and then the only thing you're willing to believe about it. I would like to like Common Core. I think it's a noble iniative. Getting the nation on one educational footing with integrated technological advances sounds right up my alley. However if there's a clear politicized/society shaping slant to it then there is a clear problem. A poster talked about the problem of "Muh America" football coach teachers. That may in fact be a problem. But we do not need to add more problems like aggressive kulturkampf to the mix. Creating [I]more bad learning[/I] is in fact worse than just maintaining whatever the current level of bad learning is. I believe GamerGate may need to challenge Common Core. However I also think that risks exhausting our mandate. People are already feeling the strain of mission creep. We are already punching out of our weight class, and enthusiastically at that. I do not think it would be wise to take on a government initiative without some very solid broadsides ready to fire. At worst it will only strengthen the already corrosive and insular "/pol/" mindset that I think burdens the movement, which will in turn make the long game that much harder.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;47091263]I wouldn't go as far as to say that your 7 year old will be calling you misogynistic, but it's VERY plausible that 3rd wave feminism has a high chance of creeping into elementary education without anyone knowing. Colleges are very liberal places. They are also one of the main places where 3rd wave feminism thrives and flourishes. It's not that far of a stretch to believe that a graduate who embraces this form of world view could try to introduce it to kids before they reach an age where they can think critically of what's being told to them by an educator. I'm not saying it will happen. I can't see the future. I'm just saying that it's not hard to believe that it could happen. It just wouldn't be implemented by common core or the government as the ADL seems to say. It would just be a few individual educators.[/QUOTE] It sounds bad on paper, but nothing is going to happen in practice. It didn't happen with black history month. Sure you have a few internet users on tumblr/twitter who cite those adversities religiously, but people won't engage in a 20 minute lecture with you IRL for making a race joke or a slur. It didn't prevent chan culture nor did it prevent offensive media out there.
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;47091479] I guess my point is that while ideology influencing education is bad the real problem is that we don't teach children the basics of philosophy, so that they can find the truth for themselves.[/QUOTE] I had a philosophy teacher tell me everything that was wrong with my generations way of thinking and how to get out of it to better ourselves with how the masters of philosophy thought. It was amazing, and even when someone questioned what his beliefs were he told us it didn't matter because he was there to teach us, not impose his beliefs on us.
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;47091791]It sounds bad on paper, but nothing is going to happen in practice. It didn't happen with black history month. Sure you have a few internet users on tumblr/twitter who cite those adversities religiously, but people won't engage in a 20 minute lecture with you IRL for making a race joke or a slur. It didn't prevent chan culture nor did it prevent offensive media out there.[/QUOTE] I think GGers need to realize that quite a few of these extremist SJ-types are actually putting on an act. It's a charade meant to make yourself look better, fit in, and use as a weapon to bully others. It's no surprise that a lot of failures, freaks, and C-list trolls from the old Web 1.0 days are now big into SJ. The ones that geniunly believe in it? Massive burnout when they don't get the revolution and fairy-tale land they were promised. You'll have a few that'll still believe in it, like Johnny, but I guaran-damn-tee you that Skye the genderqueer asexual pansexual with a green undercut that wants to overthrow capitalism will become Jessica the dyed-blonde, straight, cis, woman doing contract work for a local large company a few years after she leaves college.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47089725]Common core pushing anti-game propaganda into classes [url]http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/education-outreach/is-gaming-a-boys-club.pdf[/url] [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9LLP8_IAAAM4PR.png[/IMG] and people said my post last thread about digging into common core was conspiracy theroies.[/QUOTE] Holy fuck. People, actually read that PDF. [QUOTE]“NPC” (These are secondary players—the figures are not directly controlled by players and use automated scripts. They tend to be sexually objectified which dehumanizes the women and conveys the message that women’s primary role is to satisfy men.) [/QUOTE] What in the fuck am I fucking reading?
Are they implying that all male NPCs have much more dialog and depth and personality than female NPCs?
Is the issue with gamer identity as a whole part of the gamergate controversy outside of it or has the controversy grown to encompass that issue? Also still going to say this please stop with Brianna ,Anita, and the rest of the inflammatory twitter brigade.It isnt getting anyone ahead but them.
Is vote manipulation against greenlight's ToS? [IMG]http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9LNAq0CAAAN0vG.jpg[/IMG]
That reads like a parody of a call to arms. Is that for real?
Gotta love how they flat-out say anyone who downvotes them is gamergate or just someone who hates them.
Leave Revolution 60 alone ,seriously it will succeed or fail on its own merits and id rather not have a bunch of people perpetuate bs by claiming it failed because gamers cant handle women,it was put up there as a trap dont jump into it.
[QUOTE=Zet;47092522]Is vote manipulation against greenlight's ToS? [/QUOTE] No It's just funny that none of them even know how greenlight works
[QUOTE=JesseR92;47092576]Leave Revolution 60 alone ,seriously it will succeed or fail on its own merits and id rather not have a bunch of people perpetuate bs by claiming it failed because gamers cant handle women,it was put up there as a trap dont jump into it.[/QUOTE] It was put up there so Wu didn't lose her Patreon. There is no other reason.
This thread's fixation with her is kinda amusing considering at the same time someone posted the Common Core stuff and it seemed to get less attention than her game. Is Facepunch's gamergate really about ethics? :^) [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Quiet;47092095]Holy fuck. People, actually read that PDF. [QUOTE]“NPC” (These are secondary players—the figures are not directly controlled by players and use automated scripts. They tend to be sexually objectified which dehumanizes the women and conveys the message that women’s primary role is to satisfy men.)[/QUOTE] What in the fuck am I fucking reading?[/QUOTE] Maybe they played an Elder Scrolls game with the wrong mods installed. You know which mods I mean.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47091428]You could replace "video games" with "beer commercials", "football games", "action movies", or anything else that has a male dominated target audience. That aside I see way more oversexed woman on prime-time TV commercials than I do in my games, so why are you specifically targeting us?[/QUOTE] Video games are more or less part of what's considered nerd culture and who cares about a bunch of gross nerds, right? They're all a bunch of weirdos anyway Easy/acceptable target, basically At least that's my thoughts on it
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;47092687]This thread's fixation with her is kinda amusing considering at the same time someone posted the Common Core stuff and it seemed to get less attention than her game. Is Facepunch's gamergate really about ethics? :^)[/QUOTE] I dunno maybe the day Wu stops speding her every waking moment blaming gamergate for anything that happens to her is the day gamergate stops talking about her. And she's indeed [I]somewhat[/I] relevant recently considering she's ticking all the boxes for unethical practices on steam greenlight. Yeah I wish people didn't fall for the baits and just ignored her but I also wish people stopped coming here being condescending dipshits like you
I only saw the common core stuff yesterday after Sommers tweeted it ,other than trying to perpetuate the idea that gamers are anti women and hostile to women and outsiders,what the hell point is it trying to make?Is it offering any solutions?Any other points of view? Or is it basically asking the students to parrot its narrative without any thought or critical thinking?
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47092799] Yeah I wish people didn't fall for the baits and just ignored her but I also wish people stopped coming here being condescending dipshits like you[/QUOTE] I've been following this shit from the start and by now I know that paying attention to the Literally Whos goes no where. If I want to be condescending I can be, because most of you are acting stupidly. Not even KiA is focused as much on Wu as you guys are. Seriously, what do you think is going to happen? That the more you talk about how much of a bad person Wu is somehow people who aren't reading this thread will realize it and the world is going to become a better place? Pointing out flawed behavior from her is an action that leads you nowhere, it doesn't do anything. Everyone here knows what and who she is, beating on the same drum for however many pages you guys have been doing it since it was last brought up is the definition of a circlejerk.
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;47092932]I've been following this shit from the start and by now I know that paying attention to the Literally Whos goes no where. If I want to be condescending I can be, because most of you are acting stupidly. Not even KiA is focused as much on Wu as you guys are. Seriously, what do you think is going to happen? That the more you talk about how much of a bad person Wu is somehow people who aren't reading this thread will realize it and the world is going to become a better place? Pointing out flawed behavior from her is an action that leads you nowhere, it doesn't do anything. Everyone here knows what and who she is, beating on the same drum for however many pages you guys have been doing it since it was last brought up is the definition of a circlejerk.[/QUOTE] Yeah that's nice. I feel like I have to repeat myself saying that I can get behind the sentiment but coming here with that attitude the most you're going to accomplish is people will think you're an asshole But if you're trying to say that we should ignore unethical behaviour because it's bad for PR, I'm going to have to disagree.
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