• Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
    5,003 replies, posted
wanna talk ethics in gaming? korean starcraft 2 tournaments are funded by illegal betters. [url]https://twitter.com/olimoley[/url] [quote] Olivia Wong @olimoley @axiomesports Assistant Manager. Creator of @olimoleague[/quote] [quote]I enjoy my job/SC2, but this gaming community is worse than CS:GO's match fixing. The Korean scene is being funded by illegal betters.[/quote] [quote]How do you think so many small time streamers can afford/get KR SC2 players and $1k prize pools? Everything is handled by KR "sponsors"[/quote] "how is this gamergate related?" [quote]And you know what? Blizzard has been informed of this several times. And there are certain KR players allegedly helping them. I know who U R[/quote] blizzard might be fully aware of the situation and is turning a blind eye. korea is their fucking moneypot for a dying game (YMMV). [quote]Is this magically supposed to get better when LOTV comes out? SC2 is a match-fixing, illegal betting playground. Congratulations. There are so many people who try to do the right thing and can't get traction, then there are those accepting these KR sponsor.[/quote] [quote]All proof was sent to @RLewisReports who will release the article[/quote] i do not expect many "journalists" to report on blizzard being corrupt.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/KKBGPce.png[/img] Nice.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;47101418][img]http://i.imgur.com/KKBGPce.png[/img] Nice.[/QUOTE] Yeah I didn't understand that post of hers, I assumed it was sarcastic. It didn't make any sense except a really terrible false flag.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;47101418][img]http://i.imgur.com/KKBGPce.png[/img] Nice.[/QUOTE] I assumed that she made the thread as a lightning rod for the hate comments, instead of clogging up all of the other threads, but she deleted it when she realized they would still make new threads either way. I like that explanation better though.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;47101418][img]http://i.imgur.com/KKBGPce.png[/img] Nice.[/QUOTE] My favourite part of this is how she acts like those two things immediately mean that she could [I]never[/I] be a terrible person. She fails to realise how broad a term feminist is nowadays.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/epKfPRm.png?1[/IMG] All of you. Full letter : [quote]It's been a pretty awful 6 months for a lot of people. You've been called every name under the sun and that's not fair. I read KiA on a daily basis along with many other places (some of which are in absolute opposition, because hey that's what grownups do, read widely), you guys are not a harassment group (or if you are you are the worlds shittiest harassment group because you have successfully pushed no women out of the industry in half a year, that's a pretty dismal success rate). All that said however, there are things you can be doing better that will help you achieve your goals faster and give your opponents less ammunition to work with. This has been discussed before but it's still relevant, particularly right now. The last few days in particular I've seen some problems and they're being exploited by those you oppose.1) E-celeb bullshit, it's either gotta stop or be contained. That includes stuff about me. Why is a snarky tweet about Gawker on the frontpage? Why is everything I say a thread? I'm barely even involved in any of this, my sole interest from the start which is publicly documented and beyond reproach as far as I'm concerned, were the ethical concerns brought up by the original accusations against Nathan Grayson, then the subsequent censorship and unified narrative of the games press. In that respect I'm with you all the way, if you wanna talk ethics, you wanna improve games media? Great, 100% behind you. Problem is you've fallen into the trap of "fighting the enemy". You've focused on people and that's a battle you can't win. Why? Because a few of these people WANT you to talk about them. They thrive on it. Why do you think Wus game was greenlit so fast? Because she successfully peddled a narrative that Gamergate was attacking her and she NEEDED support to fight them. People bought it hook line and sinker, they even accepted the flagrantly false claims that "Not interested" votes have any effect on the Greenlight process. The more you talked about her the more she benefited. Lemme ask you this. Is Wu in any way relevant to ethics in games media? No? Then stop talking about her. She is setup in such a way as to benefit from it. If she's harassed, she received media coverage, Patreon donations, Greenlight votes and more followers. Same applies to Sarkeesian, Quinn and also some bad actors that have jumped on this whole thing for publicity or some twisted sense of self-gratification. Do not feed into their narrative. Sarkeesian is only relevant to games media ethics when games media decides to parrot what she says without having the spine to stop and critique it. Quinn is only relevant to ethical concerns due to the conflict of interest with Grayson. These people should be left alone (not least because frankly as much as I disagree with all of them, they've been through enough shit as it is). It is slowing you down, it's making you REALLY hard to talk about to other people and everytime you engage in e-celeb drama, that's another thing that people can point to and say "AHHA! SEE, I knew it wasn't about ethics, you just want to talk about these women!". Stop talking about these women and stop talking about me. If I post a piece on ethics, sure, maybe that's relevant to you, but what I say daily on Twitter is not and certainly not the harassment I receive. That ship has sailed, everyone is ignoring the harassment from the "other side" and that's not going to change because all in all, the people you are fighting on a daily basis are zealous extremists who will tolerant no dissent from their dogma. 2) Be patient. The desire to find another smoking gun is understandable. The problem is everytime you jump on some half-cocked story that isn't well sourced and blow it up, it has a big chance of blowing up in your face. The Pinsof thing is worth investigating but the evidence is threadbare at best, there's a lot of "he said she said" and not a great deal of proof. Your time is better spent trying to find that proof rather than blowing up a story across Twitter that might turn out to be false and results in yet another set back for you guys. 3) Ghazi. Is not relevant. It is tiny, it's full of silly people that can't keep their stories straight. It's the place my wife goes to get a good laugh in the morning and see what crazy thing they've come up with next to try and ignore that she's a person. At the same time my wife has 50x the subscribers they do alone. They are a non-entity. You're always going to have groups like that. There are forums and websites dedicated to hating me. Have they achieved anything? Of course not. Will Ghazi? No. They feed off of you, they're a parasite as all of these SRS-lite groups are, they exist solely to hate. Render the hate impotent by ignoring them. We don't care what Ghazi did, they're a laughing stock. 4) Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. This is the optimum way to discuss relevant issues and not give ammunition to bad actors. Do not engage in ad hominem, do not even talk about people, talk about ideas. Only bring up people when it's absolutely relevant to an ethics concern (ie. this journalist/site did this). Want to argue against something Sarkeesian said? Post the idea then debunk it (or I mean just dont post about it at all because it has very little if anything to do with ethics in games media). These threads always devolve into bashing the person and ad hominems are a weak argumentative technique and are being used against you as proof that you are a bunch of harassers. This is what I hear from people I speak to in games dev and games media when I speak on your behalf. They go to KiA, they see that and they find it hard to give you the benefit of the doubt. Resist the urge to attack a person, attack their ideas. Without their ideas they lose their relevancy. 5) If you havent already, get a unified, sourced list of achievements and use it at every possible opportunity. I've been following KiA daily for over 6 months (as well as many other related sites and articles, I read all the bad stuff as well as the good), I can recite for the most part the things you've achieved but so many people cannot. It's gotta be public, it's gotta be front and center, it's gotta be beyond argument. Hell it should be permanently stickied at the top of this sub so people don't forget why they are here. 6) Please resist the urge to label. This ties into #4. In the same way that Gamergate is a boogieman for many people, so too is "SJW" for a lot of you. SJW isn't a real thing. There are ideologies at play and ideologies are compromised of a structure of ideas. Ideas can be criticized and they should be, it's part of healthy human development. It's best not to make assumptions about people. Nobody is the same and it makes it much easier to in turn lump you guys into a harmful label if you keep using them yourselves. What relevance is the term SJW? There doesn't appear to be one. You dont need shorthand on Reddit. Talk about ideas. [B]You might view this as tone policing. Feel free to disregard everything I've said. But you don't win by mud-wrestling a pig, you just end up dirty and the pig likes it. Remove emotion from the equation by removing people from the equation and focusing on ideas that can be proven or disproven. "This is an ethical violation, here is my proof", that's good. "Look at what Wu did this time", this is bad. It's not even about treating people with respect though you should regardless, it's about being an effective movement for positive change. If you can't be that then well, the detractors will end up being proved right and that's what history will say. Don't fall into the traps of tit for tat distraction. The more time you spend engaging with people who have no real relevance to games media or indeed the wider ethical problems this industry has which I hope you will move onto next at some point, the worse it will get. Don't go backwards.[/B] Anyway for the most part you are doing good work, you just keep falling into traps and taking bait. Get better at avoiding that and you'll be more productive (and stop posting my bloody twitter as news). Thanks [/quote] This is what needs to be said. [editline]a[/editline] Honestly couldn't have been posted under anything else that would have been a better example. It's been pages and pages of this shit, don't you think you have given her enough attention already?
So guys, I decided to take up the challenge of tackling Gamergate from the perspective of a Social Problem class examination. As a part of that, I've been asked to bring examples of verbal, visual, and behavioral claims-making (basically people talking and trying to convince others of the cause) of my chosen subject matter. I think I've got some good examples of the first two, but I'm a bit stuck on how to handle the case of behavioral claims-making. The class gives examples of that sort of thing as stuff like protest demonstrations or sit-ins in front of bulldozers and the like. Does anyone know of a sort of case of Gamergate activity that might best relate to this?
[QUOTE]5) If you havent already, get a unified, sourced list of achievements and use it at every possible opportunity. I've been following KiA daily for over 6 months (as well as many other related sites and articles, I read all the bad stuff as well as the good), I can recite for the most part the things you've achieved but so many people cannot. It's gotta be public, it's gotta be front and center, it's gotta be beyond argument. Hell it should be permanently stickied at the top of this sub so people don't forget why they are here.[/QUOTE] I must admit there hasn't been as many summaries/infographics/etc. lately as there were a few months ago. It would certainly help out to have more of those (especially for people like me who have [I]terrible[/I] short term memory).
[QUOTE=Hidole555;47102163]I must admit there hasn't been as many summaries/infographics/etc. lately as there were a few months ago. It would certainly help out to have more of those (especially for people like me who have [I]terrible[/I] short term memory).[/QUOTE] I think it would also be nice because an absolute boatload of stuff has happened in the last six months. We should really document that more clearly. It would also show how much progress we have and are making exactly.
[QUOTE=Drewsko;47102139]So guys, I decided to take up the challenge of tackling Gamergate from the perspective of a Social Problem class examination. As a part of that, I've been asked to bring examples of verbal, visual, and behavioral claims-making (basically people talking and trying to convince others of the cause) of my chosen subject matter. I think I've got some good examples of the first two, but I'm a bit stuck on how to handle the case of behavioral claims-making. The class gives examples of that sort of thing as stuff like protest demonstrations or sit-ins in front of bulldozers and the like. Does anyone know of a sort of case of Gamergate activity that might best relate to this?[/QUOTE] Doxxing and swatting? Or maybe stuff like brianna's failed false flag op.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;47101366]Starcraft match fixing :words:[/QUOTE] Woah. Lewis blowing open another scandal for another game would be crazy.
A brief note. In my last post I talked about Gamergate possibly needing to challenge Common Core. I am now against that notion. It's been discovered that the "Anti-Gamer" Common Core lesson was a lesson made by the Anti-Defamation League in compliance [I]with[/I] Common Core, not as a plank within Common Core. Does this reveal that Common Core can be used to push views? Absolutely. However any educational medium can be used to push views, even implicitly. I think I demonstrated that succinctly in my last post. I also said Gamergate would risk exhausting it's mandate if it challenged Common Core. I stand by that, and in fact want to emphasize that. I think we will make more progress and have more traction by focusing on issues more directly linked to us. Particularly within the spheres of gaming and journalism. I believe the extent to which Common Core is related to #GG is effectively minimal, wandering into co-opting the movement for social action that neither benefits nor diminished #GG. Just as I believe #GG is not a tool for Anti-Transgenderism, Right Wing Political Action, Pro-Affirmative Action, Left-Wing Promotion or anything else, I do not believe it is in our interest to expend very much effort to fight Common Core. It would be a reckless over extension of resources that are, frankly, too thin.
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;47102408][...] [B]It's been discovered[/B] that the "Anti-Gamer" Common Core lesson was a lesson made by the Anti-Defamation League in compliance [I]with[/I] Common Core, not as a plank within Common Core. [...][/QUOTE][emphasis mine] It's right there in the document. If I'm not mistaken I also posted that before your post about "needing to challenge it".
[QUOTE=Drewsko;47102139]So guys, I decided to take up the challenge of tackling Gamergate from the perspective of a Social Problem class examination. As a part of that, I've been asked to bring examples of verbal, visual, and behavioral claims-making (basically people talking and trying to convince others of the cause) of my chosen subject matter. I think I've got some good examples of the first two, but I'm a bit stuck on how to handle the case of behavioral claims-making. The class gives examples of that sort of thing as stuff like protest demonstrations or sit-ins in front of bulldozers and the like. Does anyone know of a sort of case of Gamergate activity that might best relate to this?[/QUOTE] Emails to advertisers, especially to sites affiliated to Gawker fits this. A protest driven attack on Gawker's bottom line, and they felt it. This started as Operation Disrespectful Nod. When anti-gamers tried to silence the more well known people of GamerGate on Twitter, #OpSkynet was created to connect people directly to each other, bypassing the traditional "hub & spoke" model of social media communication completely. This has succeeded in making GamerGate incredibly hard to damage in any meaningful way. There are plenty of smaller examples, like how gamers hijack every hashtag used against them, or how they will incessantly correct wrong information to the point anti-gamers have started calling them "sea-lions" (I don't have the comic handy explaining this but it does not help their case much).
From the wonderful folks that brought you gone home and RockPaperShotgun, we have the hit "jesus christ conflicts of interest". [quote] [url=https://twitter.com/fullbright]Dis is Steve[/url] and [url=https://twitter.com/bonzrat]dis is Alec[/url] . Dey is fwiends. :D [url]https://archive.today/Tmyhk[/url] [url]https://archive.today/LLb77[/url] [url]https://archive.today/jJOC1[/url] [url]https://archive.today/ktKzm[/url] [url]https://archive.today/tRHFB[/url] [url]https://archive.today/czFlN[/url] One day Steve saw his friend Alec talking about his cool poster. [url]https://archive.today/xQkYy[/url] So Steve told Alec about some cool poster he had that Alec might like. [url]https://archive.today/ufnBo[/url] Alec did like it, so he told Steve how to get him one and Steve obliged. [url]https://archive.today/9XP28[/url] [url]https://archive.today/xc7mK[/url] Just a few days later Steve announced that he and his pals were starting a game studio. Alec mentioned the piece he would be publishing about his friend's studio and it was posted about 50 minutes after his friend's announcement (Brit time). [url]https://archive.today/romaz[/url] [url]https://archive.today/yGZfq[/url] [url]https://archive.today/taW7B[/url] One week later Alec joked about spoiling the announcement of his friend's game by announcing it before him, but he was nice and gave Steve a couple of minutes. [url]https://archive.today/81TmY[/url] [url]https://archive.today/NgtV2[/url] [url]https://archive.today/VBL1A[/url] Alec kept writing about his friend's game and is now writing about his friend's next game. [url]https://archive.today/2iWXJ[/url] [url]https://archive.today/sA9zs[/url] [url]https://archive.today/8gbXx[/url] source: [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2v8ut6/gone_home_creator_gets_friend_from_rock_paper/[/url] [/quote]
[url]https://archive.today/L8aYc[/url] Dev tries to change his own wikipedia article - you can imagine what wikipedia says to him!
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47102704][url]https://archive.today/L8aYc[/url] Dev tries to change his own wikipedia article - you can imagine what wikipedia says to him![/QUOTE] That sounds somewhat unbelievable. All it takes is a dev tweeting it, and then referencing that tweet.
*Their "reliable" sources over people; can't edit post. [editline]9th February 2015[/editline] OKAY WHAT it deleted my whole post okay whatever Basically all I said it happened before and I just thought it was a funny believable/ironic story I saw and I couldn't verify any of it blah blah [url]http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/an-open-letter-to-wikipedia[/url]
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;47103091]That sounds somewhat unbelievable. All it takes is a dev tweeting it, and then referencing that tweet.[/QUOTE] Is Twitter a reliable source though? To me it sounds like it would be excluded by the "no primary sources" rule I've heard of :v: Well, it's more likely they didn't think of that and tried to edit it just so. Should be easy enough to fix if they can make a "There are currently no plans to make [unreleased game] a trilogy" post somewhere official.
It's depressing how many 'free speech zones' have been completely overridden by the whole gamergate fiasco. I mean, we're talking not only having nearly every single journalist/news site (game-related or not) posting against it, but also 4chan and-- from the recent rumors, Reddit too? Shit, AGG's are somehow everywhere.
[QUOTE=Monkah;47103585]It's depressing how many 'free speech zones' have been completely overridden by the whole gamergate fiasco. I mean, we're talking not only having nearly every single journalist/news site (game-related or not) posting against it, but also 4chan and-- from the recent rumors, Reddit too? Shit, AGG's are somehow everywhere.[/QUOTE] Yeah free speech seems to work on the internet only when it suits website owners beliefs. I'd be more surprised about 4chan then sub-reddits, I mean, 4chan censoring internet drama is the most backwards move of all time.
[QUOTE=Monkah;47103585]It's depressing how many 'free speech zones' have been completely overridden by the whole gamergate fiasco. I mean, we're talking not only having nearly every single journalist/news site (game-related or not) posting against it, but also 4chan and-- from the recent rumors, Reddit too? [B]Shit, AGG's are somehow everywhere.[/B][/QUOTE] I used to think that SJWs were everywhere but that's not really the case at all. The SJWs are loud and collaborate to create moral panic but judging by the numbers we're seeing on Twitter, they are outnumbered by a huge degree. I wouldn't be surprised if it broke 10 to 1. This fight they're putting up? The media narrative? None of it can last. They're already eating each other just to stay alive.
[QUOTE=Monkah;47103585]It's depressing how many 'free speech zones' have been completely overridden by the whole gamergate fiasco. I mean, we're talking not only having nearly every single journalist/news site (game-related or not) posting against it, but also 4chan and-- from the recent rumors, Reddit too? Shit, AGG's are somehow everywhere.[/QUOTE] Reddit is not and never has been a rumor. Conde Nast is agg, fullstop, and has been up to its ass in collusion for years.
I just realized, Gamergate has been around for half a year. Isn't that crazy?
Didn't moot cave because he was friends with a few AGG's and some high profile journalist's threatened him? From what I understand, that's when he decided it all has to go, threw out his mod team, replaced them with AGG's, and more recently left the site. 4chan has always been demonised by the media, a fact that the community relished, but I guess having his friends threatening him was too much to bear this time.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47103962]Didn't moot cave because he was friends with a few AGG's and some high profile journalist's threatened him? From what I understand, that's when he decided it all has to go, threw out his mod team, replaced them with AGG's, and more recently left the site. 4chan has always been demonised by the media, a fact that the community relished, but I guess having his friends threatening him was too much to bear this time.[/QUOTE] Never entirely confirmed, mostly speculation. Unless I recall incorrectly the initial rumor was that the daughter of a gakwer employee committed suicide in wake of cut for beiber or some attempt at screwing with justin beiber fans, some one said moot went ballistic and put a bunch of "sjw" janitors in power to the distaste of the original mod team. Then after wards they discussed it privately in the /v/ minecraft server or something.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;47103727]I used to think that SJWs were everywhere but that's not really the case at all. The SJWs are loud and collaborate to create moral panic but judging by the numbers we're seeing on Twitter, they are outnumbered by a huge degree. I wouldn't be surprised if it broke 10 to 1.[/QUOTE] You can say that for any sort of social issues. In real life, people tend to be quite moderate about issues overall. I've met some women that are pro-life, but they actaully don't give a toss if people get abortions. For them, being pro-life is just a small component of who they are instead of defining them. Like, look at feminism. In the grand scheme of things, the shut-in teenage and adult white girls that make up extreme Tumblr feminism are actually a small minority compared to the rest of the world. A lot of the issues these types bring up are non-issues amongst the general population. You may have a few opportunistic politicians try to drum up some support for them, but at the end of the day nobody is going to care except the extremists themselves. I look at social justice like I would any sort of entertainment; there are a few diehards that can make an entire group look bad. It can apply to anything, whether it's a guy willing to start a fight over a sports team they love and have a ton of memorabilia for, someone writing a 1,000-word screed that has a death threat or two as a responce to a minor Battlefield patch, or an immature woman in her 20s ready to start World War III over there not being enough female Oscar nominees.
[QUOTE=mooman1080;47104076]Never entirely confirmed, mostly speculation. Unless I recall incorrectly the initial rumor was that the daughter of a gakwer employee committed suicide in wake of cut for beiber or some attempt at screwing with justin beiber fans, some one said moot went ballistic and put a bunch of "sjw" janitors in power to the distaste of the original mod team. Then after wards they discussed it privately in the /v/ minecraft server or something.[/QUOTE]Actually, the original story was that a family member of Gawker CEO Nick Denton (either his niece or daughter, can't quite remember), tried to commit suicide after that "Raid" 4chan did on Tumblr where they flooded popular tags with pictures of like gruesome stuff and hardcore fetish porn. After that Nick Denton wanted blood, and he was going to sue moot or try to have 4chan shutdown, and moot got scared so he caved and basically turned in to Gawker's bitch.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;47104446]Actually, the original story was that a family member of Gawker CEO Nick Denton (either his niece or daughter, can't quite remember), tried to commit suicide after that "Raid" 4chan did on Tumblr where they flooded popular tags with pictures of like gruesome stuff and hardcore fetish porn. After that Nick Denton wanted blood, and he was going to sue moot or try to have 4chan shutdown, and moot got scared so he caved and basically turned in to Gawker's bitch.[/QUOTE] Ah yes that's correct. It was the tumblr raid fiasco, and all that other stuff I horribly mis remembered.
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