Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
5,003 replies, posted
I think Ben Kuchera is just a sadistic asshole. Even by games journalist standards he's an awful person, I can't think of anyone else who not only throws people under the bus for the sake of a narrative, [I]but will also throw completely unrelated people under the bus for no apparent reason at all[/I]. This is a guy who believes someone posting abandonware justifies attempting to form an online lynch mob. Not even Gawker cares if people post abandonware. The only conclusion I can draw from that is Ben is in this field of work for the ability to antagonize people. If he can't do that anymore he'll probably just leave the scene entirely.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;47156020]I have absolutely no respect for people who actively try to alienate their audience. You don't want a particular group of people to read your shit? Fine, then you don't deserve to have any readers whatsoever. Run your career right into the ground and end up living on the streets. You won't be so eager to alienate the people who would help you earn your living then, would you?[/QUOTE]
Dude, you're so wrong. Let's take the example of a game developer who's making a game that contains a rape scene in it. People will complain to that game developer about the rape scene a lot but he knows he won't change it. At some point he gets annoyed and says "I can't be any clearer: If you want me to change the rape scene, I don't want you playing the game. I'm TRYING to lose you as a customer. Go away." Does this game developer deserve no one playing his game at all? No. It's his choice, however justified or not you may think it is.
I do agree with the rest of what you said, but your initial logic is off.
Out of curiosity, where do you guys read or hear gaming news now?
When it comes to reviews I've lost pretty much all trust ever since the whole gamestop thing. I prefer watching gameplay videos on youtube (preferably without commentary) or ask friends.
When it comes to knowing what's happening behind the scenes with certain games I usually read their forums and sometimes blogs if it's specific to the development. It tends to be more closed when it comes to AAA games though. A while ago someone showed me a long article about some 1080p console drama was based on a single sentence a developer on reddit had posted in some IAMA thread thing. That single sentence and thread from the developer was a lot more useful.
I'm not that much of a gamer anymore but I still like to follow the culture and stuff. I like programming so when I want to read news about that I just go to where it happens like on github, mailing lists, forums, etc.
I understand going where it happens might be time consuming for a lot of people. Maybe something like SH but with some rule not allowing to post from news sources could be useful. (is that how reddit somewhat works already? I've never really been active there)
[QUOTE=CapsAdmin;47157094]Out of curiosity, where do you guys read or hear gaming news now?
When it comes to reviews I've lost pretty much all trust ever since the whole gamestop thing. I prefer watching gameplay videos on youtube (preferably without commentary) or ask friends.
When it comes to knowing what's happening behind the scenes with certain games I usually read their forums and sometimes blogs if it's specific to the development. It tends to be more closed when it comes to AAA games though. A while ago someone showed me a long article about some 1080p console drama was based on a single sentence a developer on reddit had posted in some IAMA thread thing. That single sentence and thread from the developer was a lot more useful.
I'm not that much of a gamer anymore but I still like to follow the culture and stuff. I like programming so when I want to read news about that I just go to where it happens like on github, mailing lists, forums, etc.
I understand going where it happens might be time consuming for a lot of people. Maybe something like SH but with some rule not allowing to post from news sources could be useful. (is that how reddit somewhat works already? I've never really been active there)[/QUOTE]
Developer sites. I read the news node on fp too.
[QUOTE=CapsAdmin;47157094]Out of curiosity, where do you guys read or hear gaming news now?
[/QUOTE]
Giantbomb.com seems to be [url=http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/the-end/1100-5160/]getting out [/url]of its slump recently, although the forums are still overly moderated.
But for the most part I browse the [I]In the news node[/I] here on facepunch.
That way, when a site posts questionable articles (like how Shacknews posted all those clearly paid for articles on the aspects of Evolve) we can have a level headed discussion without being moderated by the narrative of the site hosting the article.
I just found this again, might be useful if you need to explain the whole SJW friction to someone or need a few hooks on how to make the point that it's a really bad thing: [url]https://www.notehub.org/2014/12/30/to-begin-with-a-note-on-language-im-goin[/url] ([URL="http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2r39d8/the_best_overview_of_sjw_culture_on_the_internet/"]KiA thread[/URL])
[editline]This is (not) an edit.[/editline]
[QUOTE=CapsAdmin;47157094]Out of curiosity, where do you guys read or hear gaming news now?
[...][/QUOTE]
I follow a few alternative sites on Twitter, so I occasionally read Techraptor and Nichegamer. Aside from that: News Node and SH.
[editline]17th February 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Damoman;47157271]Giantbomb.com seems to be [url=http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/the-end/1100-5160/]getting out [/url]of its slump recently, although the forums are still overly moderated.
But for the most part I browse the [I]In the news node[/I] here on facepunch.
That way, when a site posts questionable articles (like how Shacknews posted all those clearly paid for articles on the aspects of Evolve) we can have a level headed discussion without being moderated by the narrative of the site hosting the article.[/QUOTE]
The forum here also lends itself a lot better to long form discussion than most comment systems, which I really appreciate about this site here.
I find it interesting that Kotaku would focus on an article like this...
[url]http://kotaku.com/hayao-miyazaki-calls-charlie-hebdo-cartoons-a-mistake-1686242173[/url]
[quote]Last month, the Paris offices of satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo were attacked, leaving twelve dead. Recently, however, famed Japanese animator Hayao Miyazaki said he believes the French paper's Muhammad cartoons were a "mistake."[/quote]
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47154422]There is no win condition.
Nobody will win at the vague end of this, it's about who loses harder.
It's pretty stupid to assume Kotaku or Polygon will apologize - they will defend themselves to the end.[/QUOTE]
I just want them to burn to the ground in all honesty. The only time I have visited their websites in the last year has been through archives or not at all.
I seriously am not giving up till nearly all their staff is fired or they crumble as a company.
[editline]17th February 2015[/editline]
Speaking of which, there's no way I'm signing that petition. Ask for their help? Ha. Ask for their apologies? Hoho.
I want their fucking paychecks on fire.
Has anyone simply asked the other sites be added to the petition?
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;47157026]Dude, you're so wrong. Let's take the example of a game developer who's making a game that contains a rape scene in it. People will complain to that game developer about the rape scene a lot but he knows he won't change it. At some point he gets annoyed and says "I can't be any clearer: If you want me to change the rape scene, I don't want you playing the game. I'm TRYING to lose you as a customer. Go away." Does this game developer deserve no one playing his game at all? No. It's his choice, however justified or not you may think it is.
I do agree with the rest of what you said, but your initial logic is off.[/QUOTE]
That's not what I was trying to say. I'm talking about the assholes who will actively try to drive away readers/fans/whatever simply because of some petty difference in opinion, like mister Kuchera here, or that IT Crowd dipshit we were talking about a couple of weeks ago. I'm not talking about people who get a little annoyed because some member of their audience is being a prick and say something they probably didn't mean, I'm talking about the people who deluded themselves into believing they have the power to choose their audience when no such power exists.
So the press is beginning it's attack on the petition:
[url]https://archive.today/HCkH0[/url]
It's sad that we have people who are genuinely smart at math, art, development, team building, ect, who just get shit on by people with no other skills but gossip and slander
[QUOTE=Fangz;47158606]So the press is beginning it's attack on the petition:
[url]https://archive.today/HCkH0[/url][/QUOTE]
Welp you heard them guys. We take no prisoners! :v:
[QUOTE=Fangz;47158606]So the press is beginning it's attack on the petition:
[url]https://archive.today/HCkH0[/url][/QUOTE]
I guess it's safe to support the petition then.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;47158601]That's not what I was trying to say. I'm talking about the assholes who will actively try to drive away readers/fans/whatever simply because of some petty difference in opinion, like mister Kuchera here, or that IT Crowd dipshit we were talking about a couple of weeks ago. I'm not talking about people who get a little annoyed because some member of their audience is being a prick and say something they probably didn't mean, I'm talking about the people who deluded themselves into believing they have the power to choose their audience when no such power exists.[/QUOTE]
There's no difference between "petty difference in opinion" and "some member of their audience is being a prick". What you're saying applies equally to both sides and my game developer example stands. Let's take another game developer: a game developer makes a game and puts Anita in it because he likes her. He then says that people who don't like that just shouldn't buy the game. How is that different from the rape scene situation and how is that different from Kuchera's situation? They're all pretty much the same, just with different specifics filling them.
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;47158910]There's no difference between "petty difference in opinion" and "some member of their audience is being a prick". What you're saying applies equally to both sides and my game developer example stands. Let's take another game developer: a game developer makes a game and puts Anita in it because he likes her. He then says that people who don't like that just shouldn't buy the game. How is that different from the rape scene situation and how is that different from Kuchera's situation? They're all pretty much the same, just with different specifics filling them.[/QUOTE]
A singular scene or character in a game doesn't detract from the experience of the game as a whole. Yeah some people may be salty about it, but the rest of the game is left in-tact and still capable of being enjoyed. To completely ignore gameplay over a story element is juvenile at best.
A 'journalist' such as Ben has only 1 thing to present: themselves and their opinion. If his opinion is that his target audience is trash and he doesn't want it, he doesn't deserve that audience in the first place. He has nothing to offer other than reporting game releases or conducting interviews -- both of which can be done by pretty much anyone in the press.
In your game developer example, they actively don't want someone that's causing a fuss over a minute detail of the game. It'd be like denouncing Borderlands 2 over the Minecraft easter egg; it's petty to go ham over something that doesn't encompass the entire experience. If you're that overly-sensitive then it's reasonable to not want to see how much you'll lose it if you see the rest of the game. With Ben, there is no additional experience, he's being a piece of garbage to his intended demographic and actively doesn't want them reading his drivel. I expect him to make a heel-faced turn once he realizes that advertisers don't like him berating [i]their[/i] demographics and the money stops flowing into his pocket.
Don't lose your spaghetti over this, but Mark Kern seems to be implying that the IGDA had some sort of involvement with SOPA/PIPA
[URL="https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/567766732888129536"]https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/567766732888129536[/URL]
Might be worth asking him for clarification and then spreading the info to choice subreddits since the internet countdown is going on.
[QUOTE=Psychopath12;47159034]he's being a piece of garbage to his intended demographic and actively doesn't want them reading his drivel[/QUOTE]
I don't think you understand his point. You're not his intended demographic, from his point of view. This should be clear because of the Gamers are Dead articles. A games journalist does not need to answer to the entire gaming demographic because that'd be impossible.
So Totalbiscuit just called Jim Sterling out for [url=https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/567763312487714816]his shitty retweet[/url] of the article attacking the petition:
[img]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/Starmenclock/Totalbiscuitcallsjimout_zpsea948ff0.png[/img]
I wonder if they have been butting heads behind the scenes as of late.
I'd like to see a unilateral petition for the whole of gaming journalism ,some something too outline standards and expectations.
[QUOTE=Fangz;47159384]So Totalbiscuit just called Jim Sterling out for [url=https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/567763312487714816]his shitty retweet[/url] of the article attacking the petition:
[img]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/Starmenclock/Totalbiscuitcallsjimout_zpsea948ff0.png[/img]
I wonder if they have been butting heads behind the scenes as of late.[/QUOTE]
You forgot what came before that
[img]http://i.imgur.com/MKiwhfV.png[/img]
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;47158910]There's no difference between "petty difference in opinion" and "some member of their audience is being a prick". What you're saying applies equally to both sides and my game developer example stands. Let's take another game developer: a game developer makes a game and puts Anita in it because he likes her. He then says that people who don't like that just shouldn't buy the game. How is that different from the rape scene situation and how is that different from Kuchera's situation? They're all pretty much the same, just with different specifics filling them.[/QUOTE]
Yes, a depiction of rape is exactly like an internet celebrity.
You're really really not good at this.
There is a very stark contrast between brutal subject matter and pushing a political and monetary agenda based on intolerance and mcCarthyism.
You need to take a class on context, and then take it again one more time just to be sure.
[QUOTE=Wii60;47159594]"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."[/QUOTE]
Hope it's not Revolution 60.
I was thinking about something today.
On the AGG side we have people like McIntosh making statements that suggest he thinks the victims of the Charlie Hebdo attacks might have deserved it, or "got what was coming to them" or whatever.
On the GG side, we have a woman who was doxxed and had threats made against her children, because she was making comics that some people found offensive.
That's kinda scary.
[QUOTE=BLOODGA$M;47160001]I was thinking about something today.
On the AGG side we have people like McIntosh making statements that suggest he thinks the victims of the Charlie Hebdo attacks might have deserved it, or "got what was coming to them" or whatever.
On the GG side, we have a woman who was doxxed and had threats made against her children, because she was making comics that some people found offensive.
That's kinda scary.[/QUOTE]
I see your point but that's a little bit of an oversimplification.
A little bit aka ALot
[QUOTE=27X;47159695]Yes, a depiction of rape is exactly like an internet celebrity.
You're really really not good at this.
There is a very stark contrast between brutal subject matter and pushing a political and monetary agenda based on intolerance and mcCarthyism.
You need to take a class on context, and then take it again one more time just to be sure.[/QUOTE]
You only invoke this context because you think it favors you, but you just happen to agree with it and nothing more. I disagree with Kuchera too, but I can take a step back and look at the situation from their shoes and see that it's very easy for someone to think that they're also right when it comes to this, and you haven't managed to convince me otherwise. There's no contrast between a rape scene, Anita, or what Kuchera writes about usually when it comes to the discussion we're having, which is the author's ability to ignore the complaints of portions of his readership/fanbase.
[QUOTE=1legmidget;47159201]Don't lose your spaghetti over this, but Mark Kern seems to be implying that the IGDA had some sort of involvement with SOPA/PIPA
[URL="https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/567766732888129536"]https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/567766732888129536[/URL]
Might be worth asking him for clarification and then spreading the info to choice subreddits since the internet countdown is going on.[/QUOTE]
That'd be huge leverage if this turned out to be what I think it is.
[url]https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/567746678623461377[/url]
he also said back when he was releasing starcraft 1 one reporter didnt even come play it before it came out and tried to write a review for it
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.