• Corruption in Gaming Journalism Discussion V2 - Back from the dead!
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[QUOTE=Fangz;47159384]So Totalbiscuit just called Jim Sterling out for [url=https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/567763312487714816]his shitty retweet[/url] of the article attacking the petition: [img]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/Starmenclock/Totalbiscuitcallsjimout_zpsea948ff0.png[/img] I wonder if they have been butting heads behind the scenes as of late.[/QUOTE] [t]http://abload.de/img/unbenanntx3su0.jpg[/t] Yeah, he really doesn't try too hard to hide his disapproval.
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;47160092]You only invoke this context because you think it favors you, but you just happen to agree with it and nothing more. I disagree with Kuchera too, but I can take a step back and look at the situation from their shoes and see that it's very easy for someone to think that they're also right when it comes to this, and you haven't managed to convince me otherwise. There's no contrast between a rape scene, Anita, or what Kuchera writes about usually when it comes to the discussion we're having, which is the author's ability to ignore the complaints of portions of his readership/fanbase.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between minority and majority, though - that's why it's not comparable. There's also a difference between an artist/developer and a journalist.
[video=youtube;DOAJu4CrBUU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOAJu4CrBUU[/video]
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;47160092]You only invoke this context because you think it favors you, but you just happen to agree with it and nothing more. I disagree with Kuchera too, but I can take a step back and look at the situation from their shoes and see that it's very easy for someone to think that they're also right when it comes to this, and you haven't managed to convince me otherwise. There's no contrast between a rape scene, Anita, or what Kuchera writes about usually when it comes to the discussion we're having, which is the author's ability to ignore the complaints of portions of his readership/fanbase.[/QUOTE] If you think there's a comparable context between the two instances you've hamfistedly attempted to shoehorn into a junior high compare/contrast argument, there's nothing else really left to say, because if the degree of unpalatability of these two things is commensurate in your mind; the "argument" such as it was, is already over. [quote] starcraft [/quote] There was an editor of an international magazine that used to work for Ziff Davis that now works for Apple that used to keep blocks of premade text ready to cut and paste together to phone in articles on games she didn't want to actually spend any time with or make a deadline. She wasn't the only one.
[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47160608][video=youtube;DOAJu4CrBUU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOAJu4CrBUU[/video][/QUOTE] Ironically, this is, compared to the average video made about Gamergate, one of the most well-informed and intelligent responses on the whole debate :v:
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;47160447]There's a difference between minority and majority, though - that's why it's not comparable. There's also a difference between an artist/developer and a journalist.[/QUOTE] I don't understand your point. A journalist has to appeal to the majority of people? If that's the case, isn't that relative? The majority of people who read Polygon probably are against GamerGate. To a journalist writing on Polygon it's reasonable for him to not take people who are likely to 1. not read Polygon and 2. be favorable towards GamerGate, into consideration as his audience. [QUOTE=27X;47160684]If you think there's a comparable context between the two instances you've hamfistedly attempted to shoehorn into a junior high compare/contrast argument, there's nothing else really left to say, because if the degree of unpalatability of these two things is commensurate in your mind; the "argument" such as it was, is already over.[/QUOTE] Well I guess that's that then. From my point of view both things are pretty much the same and being that the case you people act like hypocrites a lot when you demonize one thing but support the other openly.
[url]https://twitter.com/n1tch[/url] [quote]Read this great set of essays on how Feminist Frequency almost stopped @redlianak writing about video games [/quote] [quote]Let's be clear, I suggested you read @redlianak's essays. Like Liana, I'm not against Feminist Frequency. I just don't agree with it all.[/quote] [quote]And to be fully balanced I don't agree or side with many aspects of GamerGate. I feel Liana makes some very good points though.[/quote] [quote]Lead Game Designer at @Ubisoft Annecy. Worked on Assassin's Creed 3 & 4, Op Flashpoint RR/DR, Batman Begins, PotC & many more @Pirahx is my better half. [/quote] and now all we have to do is wait for AGG to attack the shit out of this guy for disagreeing slightly and bam we get another pro-gg dev.
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;47158910]There's no difference between "petty difference in opinion" and "some member of their audience is being a prick". What you're saying applies equally to both sides and my game developer example stands. Let's take another game developer: a game developer makes a game and puts Anita in it because he likes her. He then says that people who don't like that just shouldn't buy the game. How is that different from the rape scene situation and how is that different from Kuchera's situation? They're all pretty much the same, just with different specifics filling them.[/QUOTE] Another very recent parallel: [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5013896/forum/Facepunch/General%20Discussion/Corruption%20in%20gaming%20journalism%20discussion%20and%20update%20thread/Biscuit%20audience.png[/img] There's a thousand reasons to dislike Kuchera, but the fact that he puts his convictions/clique over his own income isn't one. Demanding that he gets his shit together and stops slandering people because it causes trouble and quite possibly harm to innocent people? Great! Demanding that he gets his shit together and stops slandering people explicitly because he'll otherwise lose "customers"? That's a ridiculous conformity argument. That said, it's a very valid reason to not respect him as businessman regarding long-term viability. But that's about it.
[QUOTE=Tamschi;47161218]Another very recent parallel: [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5013896/forum/Facepunch/General%20Discussion/Corruption%20in%20gaming%20journalism%20discussion%20and%20update%20thread/Biscuit%20audience.png[/img] There's a thousand reasons to dislike Kuchera, but the fact that he puts his convictions/clique over his own income isn't one. Demanding that he gets his shit together and stops slandering people because it causes trouble and quite possibly harm to innocent people? Great! Demanding that he gets his shit together and stops slandering people explicitly because he'll otherwise lose "customers"? That's a ridiculous conformity argument. That said, it's a very valid reason to not respect him as businessman regarding long-term viability. But that's about it.[/QUOTE] I don't see any @ or anything, is he talking to himself?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47161285]I don't see any @ or anything, is he talking to himself?[/QUOTE] TotalBiscuit usually avoids @mentions to not swarm people with his followers, but in this case he really is addressing (part of) his audience in general and not a specific person. [editline]18th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=1legmidget;47159201]Don't lose your spaghetti over this, but Mark Kern seems to be implying that the IGDA had some sort of involvement with SOPA/PIPA [URL="https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/567766732888129536"]https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/567766732888129536[/URL] Might be worth asking him for clarification and then spreading the info to choice subreddits since the internet countdown is going on.[/QUOTE] [url]https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/567775632893812737[/url] Seems like they just didn't oppose it until it was over and "safe".
[img]http://i.imgur.com/UsUol0G.png[/img]
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;47158421] Speaking of which, there's no way I'm signing that petition. Ask for their help? Ha. Ask for their apologies? Hoho. I want their fucking paychecks on fire.[/QUOTE]This is stupid, that petition is asking for them to be held accountable and stop with the bullshit they've been doing for months which has done nothing but set gaming back decades. So you want them to continue doing what they're doing and do even more damage? Or would you rather they stopped doing that shit, acknowledge responsability, and then perhaps we can keep fighting for ethic journalism without the world thinking we're all serial rapists. Seriously did you get so attached to the smear campaign you don't want to make it stop now? We can have that and then burn burn the press to the ground, except the latter is not a feasible short term goal.
[url]https://twitter.com/pewdiepie/status/567858856535158784[/url] [QUOTE]Today's news media will post anything to get more clicks and money. It's so gross...[/QUOTE] pewdiepie is slowly leanin over
[QUOTE=Wii60;47161946][url]https://twitter.com/pewdiepie/status/567858856535158784[/url] pewdiepie is slowly leanin over[/QUOTE] He's not going to support #GG directly (I hope). The culture clash would be ridiculous. One more party (somewhat) loudly opposing too profit-hungry journalism is always good though.
As true as Pewdiepie's words are in that tweet, he is also a bit of a hypocrite when he says that. I shouldn't have to explain why.
[QUOTE=EmperorVagak;47162272]As true as Pewdiepie's words are in that tweet, he is also a bit of a hypocrite when he says that. I shouldn't have to explain why.[/QUOTE] But he's not giving out news as content though :V
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47161762]This is stupid, that petition is asking for them to be held accountable and stop with the bullshit they've been doing for months which has done nothing but set gaming back decades. So you want them to continue doing what they're doing and do even more damage? Or would you rather they stopped doing that shit, acknowledge responsability, and then perhaps we can keep fighting for ethic journalism without the world thinking we're all serial rapists. Seriously did you get so attached to the smear campaign you don't want to make it stop now? We can have that and then burn burn the press to the ground, except the latter is not a feasible short term goal.[/QUOTE] I'm not going to suddenly assign my opinion to some mass-appealed 'let's please everybody' dialog. I honestly don't care about 'repairing' anything, these 'reporters' decided to become my enemy the moment they called me a Nazi, a misogynist, an ISIS member, and everything else just because I played video games. People like that do NOT deserve to work in this industry if they have a past of attacking their readership, whitewashing, and incite the rest of the world to attack me and my friends for our hobbies. I couldn't care if Polygon stays as a company. I care about all the people who wrote those articles, and I want them to get the fuck out of this industry. I want their influence on anything related to video games to be about as much as an ant's. [editline]18th February 2015[/editline] Letting the people who called us 'serial rapists' off the hook just so we can fight something that's going to solve itself anyway in a few years isn't something I want. It lets these assholes retain their positions and try the same ball game, different court again whenever they feel like it suits them. We've been called violent murderers in the press for over a decade and yet gaming keeps growing and people have eventually started to laugh at the notion without some 'journalistic agreement' with a bunch of greedy fucks.
TB on Ben Kuchera on the podcast earlier (then goes to law and order) [url]http://vocaroo.com/i/s1bTi9Yy09Oq[/url]
[QUOTE=Wii60;47163360]TB on Ben Kuchera on the podcast earlier (then goes to law and order) [url]http://vocaroo.com/i/s1bTi9Yy09Oq[/url][/QUOTE] He has a point on the journalism thing, you aren't going to get anything posetive done by acting like an ass with an axe to grind. Nobody will seriously listen to you if you just seem to be out for revenge *looks breifly at ForgottenKane*; Reward good journalism, punish the bad, regardless of source is my opinion.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Yn8wiSh.png[/IMG] anti-gg is throwing massive amounts of shit at him for this [url]https://twitter.com/IGLevine/status/567897198110855169[/url] [editline]18th February 2015[/editline] [url]https://archive.today/aMw9J[/url] dina from mighty no 9 (remember that?) admitted she wanted to change things
[QUOTE=Wii60;47163540] dina from mighty no 9 (remember that?) admitted she wanted to change things[/QUOTE] I'm sure she wanted to change things because it helped accumulate power and a reputation for herself. I don't believe a bully like her for a minute.
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;47160763]I don't understand your point. A journalist has to appeal to the majority of people? If that's the case, isn't that relative? The majority of people who read Polygon probably are against GamerGate. To a journalist writing on Polygon it's reasonable for him to not take people who are likely to 1. not read Polygon and 2. be favorable towards GamerGate, into consideration as his audience. Well I guess that's that then. From my point of view both things are pretty much the same and being that the case you people act like hypocrites a lot when you demonize one thing but support the other openly.[/QUOTE] I haven't given an opinion of HM2, so once again, your "argument" is baited presupposition at best. Perhaps you need to start reading and stop jumping to rather blatantly derived passive-aggressive conclusions. [editline]18th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;47161762]This is stupid, that petition is asking for them to be held accountable and stop with the bullshit they've been doing for months which has done nothing but set gaming back decades. So you want them to continue doing what they're doing and do even more damage? Or would you rather they stopped doing that shit, acknowledge responsability, and then perhaps we can keep fighting for ethic journalism without the world thinking we're all serial rapists. Seriously did you get so attached to the smear campaign you don't want to make it stop now? We can have that and then burn burn the press to the ground, except the latter is not a feasible short term goal.[/QUOTE] No, your stance is astoundingly naive. These people aren't going to change their views or their minds, that would have already happened. It didn't. Virtually every journalist that graduated from print in its failing days now works for either a tech concern or a video game publisher. You're asking for the cycle to be repeated again further down the road in a semantic politically motivated circlejerk [B]that has been perpetrated since the 1990s.[/B] From the days of Dave Halverson hyping up games his still-owned game store was selling at significant import markup, to GamePro's pants-on-head policy of literally [I]never giving a game a bad review[/I] to EGM's open payola to Midway and Konami for first-run priority on cheats and codes, this shit needs to [I]end[/I], not be perpetuated another couple of years down the road. Enough is enough. With live/as-it-happens streaming and what you see is what you get previewing becoming absolutely feasible, the need for a medium where everything can be bought, paid, or slanted to fit an agenda needs to end. The biased/crony-ized cruft that composes the majority of information dissemination on the largest hobby in the world and future of storytelling as we know needs to go the fuck away, period, or at least get a fighting chance to enter its next phase of development and maturation free of bastshit politically motivated mcCarthyistic pap. Page-view sites had their day, and they squandered it over social engineering. You seriously still want information and opinions from someone who [I]actually[/I] hates you and what you do? What the fuck for? The last seven months have shown rather definitively that "games journalism" is completely superfluous in regard to making content and purchasing decisions, and on-demand/as-it-happens content is pretty much superior in every way. I'm not gonna hold the door open and let in more cold, when there's a guy on the monitor who can show me what I need to know without bias, bullshit or condescension. Also having to read the phrase "yucky and gross" from a grown ass human being about a product that took four years and over a hundred million dollars and over a thousand man-hours to make and be expected to keep a straight face. Done.
Holy shit, am I the only one who actually read the fucking petition? I'm tired of having to repeat myself while I get strawmen thrown at me But fine, I guess you enjoy being called a rapist Point moot considering we know polygon's stance and I expect kotaku to follow suit
[QUOTE=Wii60;47163360]TB on Ben Kuchera on the podcast earlier (then goes to law and order) [url]http://vocaroo.com/i/s1bTi9Yy09Oq[/url][/QUOTE] Oh god, TB not pulling any punches is a joy to listen to.
dying light was censored via patch [url]http://www.alternet.org/culture/why-did-best-selling-video-game-dying-light-remove-line-dialogue-about-violence-against[/url] [QUOTE]The removed content revolves around a character named Troy, who you meet in the game towards the latter half of the story. Troy is a resident of a land called Harran, a fictional land loosely based off of the real-life country of Turkey. When you meet Troy, you notice that part of her face has horrible scars. If you play the game today, you'll still meet Troy and interact with her; her character will still have the scars. But what the game's developers did is implement a patch that removes a line of dialogue from the game from Troy explaining how she got the scars. As one Gamefaqs (a popular gaming webboard) user who played the game explains, she says “something along the lines of 'my brother threw acid in my face just for talking about going to school. Funny how it takes the end of the world for me to be in charge of a man.'” In other words, Troy is a survivor of patriarchal violence – and the fact that she's a leader of a faction of people when a zombie outbreak starts shows that she was able to overcome it.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Wii60;47165432]dying light was censored via patch [url]http://www.alternet.org/culture/why-did-best-selling-video-game-dying-light-remove-line-dialogue-about-violence-against[/url] [QUOTE]In other words, Troy is a survivor of patriarchal violence – and the fact that she's a leader of a faction of people when a zombie outbreak starts shows that she was able to overcome it.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE] And? Why get rid of it? It adds to character depth to survive such events, it enrich the story. I really don't get what's the goal here. Is it to remove any kind of revolting situations from the media? What the fuck's the point in that? Do you want people to be aware of the existence of domestic violence or do you not? Be consistent, god dammit!
I don't understand why they would remove that. Is it some sort of denial violence is perpetrated against women? I hope we don't actually have to see cencorship akin to comic books or we will actually see the third crash of the gaming industry.
[QUOTE=_Axel;47165533]And? Why get rid of it? It adds to character depth to survive such events, it enrich the story. I really don't get what's the goal here. Is it to remove any kind of revolting situations from the media? What the fuck's the point in that? Do you want people to be aware of the existence of domestic violence or do you not? Be consistent, god dammit![/QUOTE] because people can't be exposed to actual real world examples of sexism, because if they do people complaining about "this female character's pixelated boobs are too big" would sound irrelevant compared to actual sexism.
So Ben Kuchera has attacked the petition directly now: [img]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/Starmenclock/image_zps8322737c.jpg[/img] Mark Kern's response: [img]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/Starmenclock/markkern_zps38bf8f48.png[/img]
what is with hipsters misuing the word "gross"? You're a "journalist" and that's the most fitting word you could find?
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