Starting with music. What do I need to know in order to make music?
75 replies, posted
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31856689]people say music is a "right brain" activity filled with "creativity" when it is mostly a "left brain" activity consisting of logic, sequence, patterns, math.
[/QUOTE]
THat's a myth btw
If you need music theory to know when your writing in key or not you probably shouldn't be making music. Music isn't something where you should be sitting there observing a list of rules and doing things because people tell you it sounds right. Use your ears. If you listen to music with any kind of regularity you should be able to know when something sounds right and when it doesn't.
All the theory I know is the very basic stuff that I have picked up over the 4-5 years I've been producing/composing and I'm able to write stuff like this:
[media]http://soundcloud.com/sonis/sonis-over/[/media]
[media]http://soundcloud.com/sonis/will-i-ever[/media]
[media]http://soundcloud.com/sonis/familiar-places[/media]
I'm definitely able to write better melodies than when I started producing, but I never had issues with things like making sure my music was in key or making sure that melodies are actually melodic, even when I very first started producing. If you really can't tell when you're doing things that sound bad you should listen to more music.
I honestly view theory as kind of a crutch. It's like trying to tell people there is a specific way they should draw or paint.
Music theory in no way limits you. I'd view it more as taking an escalator vs climbing the stairs.
Both will get you up there but the other one is easier and more convenient. Even if your legs hurt.
HNGGG MY METAPHORICAL SKILL IS SO FUCKING DOPE
I'm not saying it limits you, I'm saying it props beginners up. I think it's vastly more important to learn how to tell when something is wrong by ear when you're starting out than to be directly told what will sound right.
[QUOTE=Croix;31857049]THat's a myth btw[/QUOTE]
why i put quotes around "left brain" and "right brain".
[editline]21st August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;31864843]I'm not saying it limits you, I'm saying it props beginners up. I think it's vastly more important to learn how to tell when something is wrong by ear when you're starting out than to be directly told what will sound right.[/QUOTE]
i think being directly told what will sound right will give you the opportunity to train your ear.
you learn intervals and scales and tonalities and shit by constantly playing and listening to them so that your brain knows it by ear.
even if a beginner doesnt constantly train their ear their ear will still be trained by the act of simply making music. if theory gets the practising and training their ear then its a pretty good crutch
If you listen to enough music (which you should if you are trying to write music) your ear should be able to tell what sounds right as you're writing without knowing the theory.
A lot of my view on theory comes from my beliefe that creative thinking an experimentation is key to music and that by learning theory you're taking some of the creative thinking out of the process, at least until you know a WHOLE LOT of theory. I think that if you give people rules that work any time you apply them they tend to cling to those rules. While I agree that theoretically speaking knowing music theory won't limit your creativity, it's going to do that to some degree whether you're consciously thinking about it or not. When I find myself falling in to the same habits when I produce I make an effort to do those things differently to keep myself thinking creatively.
So, I am also looking to begin making music and I see all this discussion about music theory and wonder what all that entails. I played Saxophone for 3 years, and we learned time signatures, sharps and flats, reading music etc. and wonder what else I supposedly need to know?
[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;31864107]If you need music theory to know when your writing in key or not you probably shouldn't be making music. Music isn't something where you should be sitting there observing a list of rules and doing things because people tell you it sounds right. Use your ears. If you listen to music with any kind of regularity you should be able to know when something sounds right and when it doesn't.
All the theory I know is the very basic stuff that I have picked up over the 4-5 years I've been producing/composing and I'm able to write stuff like this:
I honestly view theory as kind of a crutch. It's like trying to tell people there is a specific way they should draw or paint.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to say you're making a straw man, but everything you're saying is unrelated to what people claim music theory can help do. Theory doesn't at all dictate how you make music or what sounds good. You can certainly use it to figure out why something sounds bad. Parts of music theory could be compared to color theory, certainly you can achieve the same colors by way of eye, but it would make more sense to use color theory to achieve the same color in a much quicker time allowing you to put more time into the overall production as opposed to wondering aimlessly.
I certainly don't understand your claims about listening to music. Listening to a lot of music gives you a feel for what sounds musically right or wrong of the repetitions patters that music theory explains. Certainly you will copy elements you like from other music, that's all you're really doing, and what you're saying is that it is better to copy without an understanding of the part than it is to copy with an understanding.
[QUOTE=monkey11;31866276]So, I am also looking to begin making music and I see all this discussion about music theory and wonder what all that entails. I played Saxophone for 3 years, and we learned time signatures, sharps and flats, reading music etc. and wonder what else I supposedly need to know?[/QUOTE]
Get out there and start making them tunes. You will learn any relevant knowledge just by practice.
[QUOTE=Yur|ko;31828310]Knowing something as basic as the minor pentatonic scale is pretty important especially if you're improvising.[/QUOTE]
I didn't even know that this scale was called "minor pentatonic scale" after googling it. I always referred to it as the "blues" scale.
The way I see it, music theory is for communication. People who make music without knowing much about the theory have made their own theory on how it works. Whether the musician knows music theory or not, we all recognize it as music in the end anyway.
I know some, but not much. Most of it has been picked up by people who do know and taught me. I work alone so I don't really need it. Music theory sounds useful for bands though.
[QUOTE=KmartSqrl;31864107]If you need music theory to know when your writing in key or not you probably shouldn't be making music. Music isn't something where you should be sitting there observing a list of rules and doing things because people tell you it sounds right. Use your ears. If you listen to music with any kind of regularity you should be able to know when something sounds right and when it doesn't.
All the theory I know is the very basic stuff that I have picked up over the 4-5 years I've been producing/composing and I'm able to write stuff like this:
[media]http://soundcloud.com/sonis/sonis-over/[/media]
[media]http://soundcloud.com/sonis/will-i-ever[/media]
[media]http://soundcloud.com/sonis/familiar-places[/media]
I'm definitely able to write better melodies than when I started producing, but I never had issues with things like making sure my music was in key or making sure that melodies are actually melodic, even when I very first started producing. If you really can't tell when you're doing things that sound bad you should listen to more music.
I honestly view theory as kind of a crutch. It's like trying to tell people there is a specific way they should draw or paint.[/QUOTE]
Music theory is imo just as important as having a good music ear and a natural feel.
You can't make music with just music theory because that's not music. I don't think 'music theory' when I wanna make something, I let my creativity flow and try to come up with something that sounds good. You don't need music theory to come up with a good melody. But when you're gonna put chords to it, or a bass or such, that's when you need music theory.
[QUOTE=CapsAdmin;31882726]I didn't even know that this scale was called "minor pentatonic scale" after googling it. I always referred to it as the "blues" scale.
Music theory sounds useful for bands though.[/QUOTE]
The blues scale is pretty much the same as the minor pentatonic expect it has a tritone thrown in.
Music theory is very nice when playing with others. You can talk about keys, chords, melodies, and different things.
The problem I think this thread is having is that everything we do, no matter if its with ear, on pencil, or on a music studio, its all still music theory at its roots. You don't have to know it because really, you're already doing it. Playing in key is music theory; etc etc.
[QUOTE=vizard38;31892771]The problem I think this thread is having is that everything we do, no matter if its with ear, on pencil, or on a music studio, its all still music theory at its roots. You don't have to know it because really, you're already doing it. Playing in key is music theory; etc etc.[/QUOTE]
music theory is just the language of music used to communicate ideas, and to put recurring patterns into words. a tree is a tree whether you have a word for it or not, but learning how to communicate that something is a tree is invaluable.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31856689]music is a collection of patterns. all music follows a certain patter, whether its predictable or not. music theory is studying these patterns and studying why they sound good. people say music is a "right brain" activity filled with "creativity" when it is mostly a "left brain" activity consisting of logic, sequence, patterns, math.
its a matter of internalizing the memorization so that you can intuitively use it when you need it, like any field of study.[/QUOTE]
I still don't quite agree with the phrasing that music theory is all just memorization. I'm glad you said at the end that it's like any other field of study, but I don't think many people would claim that most fields of studies are made up mostly of memorizations. Maybe this is a semantical issue because memorization to me does not at all imply understanding.
[QUOTE=Pepin;31907601]I still don't quite agree with the phrasing that music theory is all just memorization. I'm glad you said at the end that it's like any other field of study, but I don't think many people would claim that most fields of studies are made up mostly of memorizations. Maybe this is a semantical issue because memorization to me does not at all imply understanding.[/QUOTE]
it is probably semantical. it isnt memorisation in the sense that you just have a bunch of numbers and words you pull out of your ass. its "true" memorisation, meaning that the knowledge is memorised and properly internalised for use subconsciously as well as consciously. its a deeper level of memorisation but its memorisation nonetheless.
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