Homosexuality - Is it a gene or a choice? - General

[QUOTE=OHNOES;35178824]Let's recap: You say homosexuality is caused by upbringing and other multiple background factors, okey yes, fine, that's one of the MANY theories on what causes homosexuality. Then you said: I'm pretty sure you're born ambidextrous. You are of the opinion that being gay is unnatural because they can't reproduce, well:"The last thing we need on this already overpopulated earth is more people, we aren't going anywhere, so who cares about the +/-10% homosexuals that can't reproduce by themselves. That actually raises another question, are infertile people unnatural? " Maybe you haven't noticed yet, but you posted something about homosexuality in a thread where you discuss it, therefore we ARE going to discuss your opinion on homosexuality.[/QUOTE] We are discussing whether or not Homosexuality is a choice or a gene and your are skipping right past that part of the debate into someones personal opinion about a different topic. It's not about creating another , it's about the possibility of creation , there is no possibility with homosexuality without scientific help. As for infertility this can also be caused by a number of things just like I've mentioned before with other subjects , Symbolism is probably also a factor for me. You could adopt and it still wouldn't change that fact for me. Ambidexterity can be learned/trained just like you can learn to play a instrument or learn to be an artist , Some people are just more inclined. The same is with sexuality , some people may be more inclined to be heterosexual , bisexual , or homosexual based on genes , the mother , the father , their development , etc. And it's not a theory , it's fact everything has an effect on you , whether you like it or not.

[QUOTE=deaded38;35178844]You're misunderstanding me again. The first quote was just saying that there is a MINOR PERCENTAGE of children that end up being gay when their parents were gay. That statement was more of a statistical statement. Parents are still an environmental factor. As for the other quote, I meant that if a child sees love in a homosexual fashion for most of his/her life, that child would be gay because he/she has seen love in that way. It all depends on how much of the other environmental factors the child sees. And if that child sees more homosexual love than heterosexual love, that child will more than likely be gay. Hence, since there isn't as much homosexual love as there is heterosexual love, a child becoming gay due to environmental factors is semi-rare. I hope I cleared things up. I must admit, I'm not very good at explaining things.[/QUOTE] And I understand that is your opinion, but what I originally challenged you with is where is the proof that children being more subjected to homosexual love will result in them being homosexual? And you state that homosexual love is less common than heterosexual love, couldn't it be argued that we are predisposed towards heterosexual love, and that's why there is more of it?

[QUOTE=a-k-t-w;35131368]it is a choice if youre bisexual.[/QUOTE] This may be true in some cases, some people are just so open to new things that they'll be willing to do anything: hence the "a hole is a hole" philosophy. Of course I'm sure some are just naturally attracted to both.

[QUOTE=deaded38;35178844]You're misunderstanding me again. The first quote was just saying that there is a MINOR PERCENTAGE of children that end up being gay when their parents were gay. That statement was more of a statistical statement. Parents are still an environmental factor. As for the other quote, I meant that if a child sees love in a homosexual fashion for most of his/her life, that child would be gay because he/she has seen love in that way. It all depends on how much of the other environmental factors the child sees. And if that child sees more homosexual love than heterosexual love, that child will more than likely be gay. Hence, since there isn't as much homosexual love as there is heterosexual love, a child becoming gay due to environmental factors is semi-rare. I hope I cleared things up. I must admit, I'm not very good at explaining things.[/QUOTE] How do you explain homosexuals who grew up in completely straight, homophobic, and religious environments, then?

This thread is pointless, it's scientifically proven that this is a gene. Saying it's not is like saying the world is flat.

[QUOTE=KnightSolaire;35202905]This thread is pointless, it's scientifically proven that this is a gene. Saying it's not is like saying the world is flat.[/QUOTE] No its not scientifically proven? A gene is something embedded in your DNA, usually passed down from your parents. I dont believe there is any data that conclusively proves this at all?

[QUOTE=DanTehMan;35204301]No its not scientifically proven? A gene is something embedded in your DNA, usually passed down from your parents. I dont believe there is any data that conclusively proves this at all?[/QUOTE] It may not be a specific gene but it's definitely something biological that's determined before birth.

It's definitely not a choice It's probably a gene... but that's a very vague statement!

I don't see how anyone would think its a choice honestly. Even with evidence pointing towards biological, this topic shouldn't even exist. With the fact that gays are treated as lesser equals to the rest of society, are given less rights than straight couples, and are prone to people harassing them, it's amazing that anyone even THINKS that someone would choose to be a homosexual. Its ridiculous.

[QUOTE=ScoobyV2;35135035]Sexuality is very complex, biologically and metaphysically. Homosexuality is just the development of lusting/emotion after the same sex. People with strong sexual willpower can coerce others just by seducing their desires. Men who are homophobic are intimidated by homosexuals, because they internalized their fear of losing dignity/control to impulses. Non-homophobic heterosexuals are free from this. They are indifferent to homosexuals.[/QUOTE] I couldn't have said it any better O-o All I think is that it's not a gene noris it a choice

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;35200190]How do you explain homosexuals who grew up in completely straight, homophobic, and religious environments, then?[/QUOTE] Biological factors.

I thought it was just to do with how much testosterone you were exposed to in the womb, too much for women, too little for men.

[QUOTE=deaded38;35217313]Biological factors.[/QUOTE] Would you care to give some proof as to what these "biological factors" are?

Does anyone who's straight CHOOSE to be straight? No your just naturally born that way. So the same goes for homosexuals

[QUOTE=fluke42;35218224]Would you care to give some proof as to what these "biological factors" are?[/QUOTE] Trends are certainly shown, for instance in twins and later sons. Or brain chemistry, reaction to hormones post-puberty, and brain formation. A better question: Why do you (deaded) believe in non-biologic factors?

I believe that different people have different levels of biological 'potential' to be homosexual from guaranteed heterosexual to bisexual with nurture to guaranteed homosexual. I also believe that a lot of straight people could be bisexual with the right environment - I myself fully believed I was straight and was even somewhat homophobic until less than a year ago, long after puberty. It's not a choice (in the everyday sense of the word), that's for certain, it's anywhere from a state of mind that once reached cannot easily be reversed (this is how I see myself), to a unique and more permanent brain chemistry that I believe most 'fully' gay people have. And when I say state of mind, perhaps not the best example, but I imagine it's largely similar to stereotypical 'emo's whom I imagine feel the need to be the way they are even though it is illogical and likely often creates harm/problems for them. It's not like a choice as in, waking up one day and deciding "oh look I'm bisexual this is cool" then getting slagged for it and going "nah jk i'm straight." Nor even a choice as in, having felt resistance, standing up for your beliefs. It is a stronger state of mind than what 'belief' would typically represent, such as religion. Although religion is an example along the right lines of what I'm talking about regarding states of mind.

[QUOTE=Bletotum;35221066]A better question: Why do you (deaded) believe in non-biologic factors?[/QUOTE] A better question: Why don't you? I've explained above why I believe in non-biologic factors. If you don't want to believe that someone can be gay depending on environmental factors, fine if that's what helps you sleep at night. [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=fluke42;35218224]Would you care to give some proof as to what these "biological factors" are?[/QUOTE] There have been other people posting some sources. I'll find some later. It's not definitive evidence, but it's certainly better (and more logical for that matter) than all gays becoming gay due to environmental factors.

Gene or a choice, I don't see how it matters. Freedom is freedom.

[QUOTE=deaded38;35231444]A better question: Why don't you? I've explained above why I believe in non-biologic factors. If you don't want to believe that someone can be gay depending on environmental factors, fine if that's what helps you sleep at night. [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] There have been other people posting some sources. I'll find some later. It's not definitive evidence, but it's certainly better (and more logical for that matter) than all gays becoming gay due to environmental factors.[/QUOTE] Relying on others to argue for you sounds like something Glaber does. But seriously, either back up your own arguments, or don't try to argue at all.

[QUOTE=Darkimmortal;35230999] And when I say state of mind, perhaps not the best example, but I imagine it's largely similar to stereotypical 'emo's whom I imagine feel the need to be the way they are even though it is illogical and likely often creates harm/problems for them. It's not like a choice as in, waking up one day and deciding "oh look I'm bisexual this is cool" then getting slagged for it and going "nah jk i'm straight." Nor even a choice as in, having felt resistance, standing up for your beliefs. It is a stronger state of mind than what 'belief' would typically represent, such as religion. Although religion is an example along the right lines of what I'm talking about regarding states of mind.[/QUOTE] You should feel shamed for comparing religion to sexuality.

There's been scientific proof that brain signals from gay and straight men are totally different. As a gay man, I couldn't imagine anyone physically [b]wanting[/b] to be gay. I'm totally comfortable with myself being gay, but I couldn't see anyone wanting to subject themselves to ridicule, torment, and homophobia.

[QUOTE=Bletotum;35234520]You should feel shamed for comparing religion to sexuality.[/QUOTE] I don't, sorry to offend. Just backing up my example.

[QUOTE=fluke42;35231819]Relying on others to argue for you sounds like something Glaber does. But seriously, either back up your own arguments, or don't try to argue at all.[/QUOTE] Maybe you should listen to my post. I quote this for your obviously incompetent brain. "I'll find some later." And I don't see why it's an issue if evidence has already been posted. I think you stupid people are just trying to find a reason to make me look bad. [editline]21st March 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;35207840]I don't see how anyone would think its a choice honestly. Even with evidence pointing towards biological, this topic shouldn't even exist. With the fact that gays are treated as lesser equals to the rest of society, are given less rights than straight couples, and are prone to people harassing them, it's amazing that anyone even THINKS that someone would choose to be a homosexual. Its ridiculous.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say it's choice to be gay. However, I would say that it CAN be a choice to change your preference. That depends on the individual person, of course. [highlight](User was banned for this post (""I quote this for your obviously incompetent brain." That isn't how you debate." - Seiteki))[/highlight]

I see it as a gene, well maybe not a gene but not a choice

[QUOTE=deaded38;35234873]Maybe you should listen to my post. [b]I quote this for your obviously incompetent brain.[/b] "I'll find some later." And I don't see why it's an issue if evidence has already been posted. I think [b]you stupid people[/b] are just trying to find a reason to make me look bad. [/QUOTE] This is not debating. If all you can do to support your argument is insult anyone who thinks otherwise, you must leave.

I think I remember reading somewhere that a boy is more likely to turn out gay depending on how many of his male siblings were born before him. That said, I have a cousin who is gay and I've fairly sure he is the oldest of the 4 of them. But it had something to do with like the immune system thinking that it wasn't right and attacking it and the more boys that the mother had, the more effective it was. Whatever it was, I think it's mostly a biological thing.

I think that when you ask 'Is homosexuality a choice, a gene, or what?' then you might as well ask 'Is <random weird sexual fetish here> a choice, a gene, or what?'

[QUOTE=Jdeedler;35179006]We are discussing whether or not Homosexuality is a choice or a gene and your are skipping right past that part of the debate into someones personal opinion about a different topic. It's not about creating another , it's about the possibility of creation , there is no possibility with homosexuality without scientific help. As for infertility this can also be caused by a number of things just like I've mentioned before with other subjects , Symbolism is probably also a factor for me. You could adopt and it still wouldn't change that fact for me. Ambidexterity can be learned/trained just like you can learn to play a instrument or learn to be an artist , Some people are just more inclined. The same is with sexuality , some people may be more inclined to be heterosexual , bisexual , or homosexual based on genes , the mother , the father , their development , etc. And it's not a theory , it's fact everything has an effect on you , whether you like it or not.[/QUOTE] I'm ambidextrous with a computer mouse. Got fed up moving the mouse from the left side of the table to the right side of the table when my dad had used the computer so I learned to do it his way. Heck, I even played FPS games with my left hand and was fine with it. I use my right hand now, mainly due to having my own computer. Still cool to be though.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;35235388]I think that when you ask 'Is homosexuality a choice, a gene, or what?' then you might as well ask 'Is <random weird sexual fetish here> a choice, a gene, or what?'[/QUOTE] Fetishes do not remove attraction to a gender, and that is insulting.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;35235388]I think that when you ask 'Is homosexuality a choice, a gene, or what?' then you might as well ask 'Is <random weird sexual fetish here> a choice, a gene, or what?'[/QUOTE] Because fetishes remove attraction for a gender right?