[QUOTE=Mr. Jelly;44776594]Humans are natural [I]omnivores[/I][/QUOTE]
I think we are more like opportunivores.
half of them just look so unsure about what they're saying
I'm disappointed PETA. You forgot to include gratuitous amounts of naked ladies in your PSA.
"For my health"
Okay that one's false too, humans are built around eating an omnivorous diet, cutting out meat and dairy is going to require supplements to maintain a healthy balance.
Don't get me wrong, it is possible to be more or less healthy with a vegan diet, but it's a lot harder than an omnivorous one.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44776021]PETA is retarded and evil, and I eat meat, but I can assure you than you can be a vegan/vegetarian and still maintain a healthy lifestyle, with or without supplements.
If it's healthier than a omnivore diet, that's debatable.
Also lets not forget this
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/07/us/peta-finds-itself-on-receiving-end-of-others-anger.html[/url][/QUOTE]
[quote]“It’s nice for people who’ve never worked in a shelter to have this idealistic view that every animal can be saved,” said Daphna Nachminovitch, PETA’s vice president for cruelty investigations. “They don’t see what awful physical and emotional pain these poor dogs and cats suffer.”[/quote]
Yeah, I have worked in an animal shelter, and saying "they can't be saved" about 90% of the animals you bring in is bull.
Also, wasn't PETA's leader loony enough to have herself sterilized? At least she did one good thing in her life by that.
[QUOTE=Killer900;44775987]While that is ridiculous that she cried, the way the animals are treated in some of those slaughter houses are deplorable and are staffed by psychopaths who have no empathy. It may be "just a fucking cow" but we shouldn't treat them like shit before we kill them for our food, it's not right from a moral standpoint.[/QUOTE]
Your average slaughterhouse doesn't treat animals like shit, that not only degrades the meat quality, it makes the workers work harder because the animals are less likely to comply. Would you listen to someone if they kicked you in the side every time you stopped moving? Fuck no you wouldn't. It's difficult to explain, but that's how it is.
I understand people that get frustrated and just flat out torture some of the animals though. Working in a slaughterhouse, which i haven't done, but many people my age currently do work in them, is very stressful. It's grueling work that has moderate pay and shit hours. Of course you're gonna lose it and beat the shit out of a hog or crush a chicken's ribs. It doesn't justify it, but i understand their frustration. Some people are just cruel though, but they usually get caught and fired.
[editline]10th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;44776995]
Yeah, I have worked in an animal shelter, and saying "they can't be saved" about 90% of the animals you bring in is bull.
[/QUOTE]
I've worked in a shelter as well, and it really is a gigantic pile of shit. The one i worked at is known as a "promise" shelter(or something like that), it's not quite a no-kill, but they rarely put animals down. The requirements to being put down are if the animal is vicious, extremely old, or deathly sick and cannot be cured. In the 2.5 years i worked there, they only put down two animals, and it was because of sickness.
There's no time limit either, i know of a few dogs that were there for the entire 2.5 years i was there. I even remember a bait dog that was mauled by trained fighting dogs and was deaf. She had also been shot with airguns many times and you could feel the BBs in her skin. She was timid, but after she got to know you, she was absolutely adorable and loved people. I think she was adopted during my second year of being there, but that was a few years ago. Like you said, PETA is full of shit, they only want money, so they kill most of the animals they get so that they can say they "saved" them.
im vagina
[QUOTE=zombini;44776999]Your average slaughterhouse doesn't treat animals like shit, that not only degrades the meat quality, it makes the workers work harder because the animals are less likely to comply. Would you listen to someone if they kicked you in the side every time you stopped moving? Fuck no you wouldn't. It's difficult to explain, but that's how it is.
I understand people that get frustrated and just flat out torture some of the animals though. Working in a slaughterhouse, which i haven't done, but many people my age currently do work in them, is very stressful. It's grueling work that has moderate pay and shit hours. Of course you're gonna lose it and beat the shit out of a hog or crush a chicken's ribs. It doesn't justify it, but i understand their frustration. Some people are just cruel though, but they usually get caught and fired.[/QUOTE]I said some, not all.
[QUOTE=Killer900;44777089]I said some, not all.[/QUOTE]
I know that, i was just enforcing the point.
"The meat industry treats animals like commodities instead of living things."
Vegans treat plants like commodities instead of living things.
[QUOTE=Combine 177;44775526]How does going to vegan solve world hunger?[/QUOTE]
The idea would be that the amount of grain we spend feeding animals for slaughter could instead be spent on feeding the poor...of course for that to work all the animals currently in circulation would have to drop dead. Its a nice idea and numerically (?) its possible, unfortunately logistically is impossible.
I'm not a vegan but a vegetarian (who cheats sometimes) but it is true that veganism or vegetarianism are way better for the environment, in terms of pollution and greenhouse gas output.
Do you know how much water and energy is required to raise these animals? Also cows farting so much green house gas is a legitmate problem lol.
Lastly, I'm gonna get cardboard-boxed for this, but the meat production industry is extremely cruel. None of us need meat to survive (and don't use the naturalistic fallacy either).
Yeah, while I absolutely despise PETA for how they go about doing things, we could 'theoretically' 'solve world hunger' by cutting out the animals and eating what they eat instead.
Though that probably wouldn't be so healthy but hey it's ~pETA~ let's spread lies and solve world hunger!!!!!!
[QUOTE=dingdongpuddi;44777517]Lastly, I'm gonna get cardboard-boxed for this, but the meat production industry is extremely cruel. None of us need meat to survive (and don't use the naturalistic fallacy either).[/QUOTE]
None of us need the internet to survive.
None of us need good tasting food to survive.
None of us need phones to survive.
None of us need X Y, or Z to survive.
I don't eat meat because I can't get the same nutrients from packets or pills. I do it because I LIKE the way it tastes, the way it smells, and the way it looks.
I'm all for making meat cruelty free, but going "Vegan because you're bad unless you are!" is pants on head retarded.
If we genetically created meat that could grow without needing a nervous system (In Vitro meat) then a shitton of problems would be solved, and nobody would really have a reason to be "Anti-meat" unless they simply didn't like the taste.
...
Some slightly biased but mostly right website: [url]http://www.petakillsanimals.com/[/url]
PETA are purely for the stunts they pull, usually they are funny or just retarded and make you laugh.
I remember that one where they got women to hold some signs in Finnish? and they were painted like foxes.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44775687]Become vegan and give up chicken nuggets, steak, bacon, eggs, yogurt, lambchops, sausages, ground beef, and what else.
You're giving me a tough decision PETA[/QUOTE]
Oh and honey, the greatest of all natural sweeteners! Your food will be BLAND AS FUCK!
Did they make the establish the clear point that Veganism is the best solution to global terrorism?
[QUOTE=dingdongpuddi;44777517]
Lastly, I'm gonna get cardboard-boxed for this, but the meat production industry is extremely cruel. None of us need meat to survive (and don't use the naturalistic fallacy either).[/QUOTE]
You're going to get dumbed because you are dumb. If you want to live your life based on need, you may as well go back to the stone age, oh and then guess what, you'll be eating meat because vegetarianism doesn't work at that level. We are omnivores because for a good portion of human history we couldn't survive without the nutrients that meat brings us in that form. Plants become inedible faster than dried meats do, and they loose most of those nutrients at that point too. Naturalism has nothing to do with it, to say we don't need a food source because it is slightly less efficient is stupid. You may as well just say all we need are potatoes, only grow potatoes now because they are efficient and we don't need anything else. Oh wait, Ireland pretty much did that. Look at how that worked. Famine ahoy. Versatility in our food intake is vital to the survival of the species. Man survived history because of this versatility to food intake, crop blights, extinctions, animals dying from diseases, nothing effects those who had other sources of food.
[QUOTE=dingdongpuddi;44777517]I'm not a vegan but a vegetarian (who cheats sometimes) but it is true that veganism or vegetarianism are way better for the environment, in terms of pollution and greenhouse gas output.
Do you know how much water and energy is required to raise these animals?[B] Also cows farting so much green house gas is a legitmate problem lol. [/B]
Lastly, I'm gonna get cardboard-boxed for this, but the meat production industry is extremely cruel.[B] None of us need meat to survive (and don't use the naturalistic fallacy either).[/B][/QUOTE]If that were a legitimate problem, wouldn't going vegan make that even more of an issue seeing as how there would be more cows since humans aren't curbing their population numbers? Also that last part is the biggest load of bullshit ever, it isn't a fallacy, it's a fact, we're omnivores, we're designed to eat a healthy balance of meat and plants.
[QUOTE=draugur;44777711]You're going to get dumbed because you are dumb. If you want to live your life based on need, you may as well go back to the stone age, oh and then guess what, you'll be eating meat because vegetarianism doesn't work at that level. We are omnivores because for a good portion of human history we couldn't survive without the nutrients that meat brings us in that form. Plants become inedible faster than dried meats do, and they loose most of those nutrients at that point too. Naturalism has nothing to do with it, to say we don't need a food source because it is slightly less efficient is stupid. You may as well just say all we need are potatoes, only grow potatoes now because they are efficient and we don't need anything else. Oh wait, Ireland pretty much did that. Look at how that worked. Famine ahoy. Versatility in our food intake is vital to the survival of the species. Man survived history because of this versatility to food intake, crop blights, extinctions, animals dying from diseases, nothing effects those who had other sources of food.[/QUOTE]
Your ignore the differences between taking advantage of something that has a brain and the myriad of other examples that don't. You'll just throw that in the trash and just say yes, all these needs don't even have feelings right? Their both chemistry therefore they're the same god damn thing. Do you know how stupid that sounds? [i]I don't need meat to survive but i'll stick a pig in a cage for three years anyway.[/i] Our dependencies in the past is unlike and inconsequential of our situation today but go ahead, imply we'll end up going back to eating bananas all day if we don't eat meat.
[QUOTE=Daemon;44777929]Your ignore the differences between taking advantage of something that has a brain and the myriad of other examples that don't. You'll just throw that in the trash and just say yes, all these needs don't even have feelings right? Their both chemistry therefore they're the same god damn thing. Do you know how stupid that sounds? [i]I don't need meat to survive but i'll stick a pig in a cage for three years anyway.[/i] Our dependencies in the past is unlike and inconsequential of our situation today but go ahead, imply we'll end up going back to eating bananas all day if we don't eat meat.[/QUOTE]
I didn't imply that at all. Also animals in nature kill and eat other animals so there's that. As to your example with putting a pig in a cage for three years anyway, we put people in prisoners for more than half their lifetimes. A pig is less capable of intelligent thought than a human is, and at least a pig gets used at the end of those three years, a human is just kept alive and then thrown in the ground after all that suffering they endure. With your example it wouldn't be a stretch to say that we shouldn't have prisons for criminals since people are animals and keeping them in cages is wrong. :downs:|
At least to some degree, a pig or other animal in a cage is better off than a human in prison, as that animal doesn't have the mental capacity to understand, it simply knows what it knows, which is that environment, and then it dies. They don't have a concept of freedom, of recorded history, what they know is all they will know, and they have nothing to compare it to. A human in a prison cell has those things to torment it mentally. A person born into slavery knows nothing else, and if it knows not of any other existence, will accept that existence as natural, not knowing of any alternative, humans are smart though, they can imagine other alternatives, and will, a pig is not that smart, it doesn't have a concept of culture or even really simple mathmatics, it is a pig, it may be aware of its existence and treating it well for that reason is moral and just, but capable of complex thought it is not, and thus, it doesn't suffer as much. See, you can put your self in the place of that animal, and feel that it would be torture, but your viewpoint is skewed from having that ability to emphasize, to compare the existence of a slaughterhouse pig to that of your own, or perhaps a free range animals, either way, and know that you have it better. A speck of knowledge that ultimately means nothing because the same pig cannot do the same in the place of you, a human.
Please return when you have an argument that actually holds water as to why EVERYONE should suddenly drop a method of energy intake that has been around for thousands of years simply because you think it is inhumane in the current form. Did we stop using oil when we figured out that burning it had a negative effect on the climate? No, we've worked to make it as clean as we can with technology, but it can't be phased out yet simply because it is still needed until we have the technological means to replace it. Eventually we'll be able to grow meat on an industrial scale like we've experimented with in labs, but until then, we have to work with what we got. Rome wasn't built in a day, and the end to slaughterhouse practice can't go away overnight. Oh and free range animals exist, so there's that.
[QUOTE=draugur;44778159]I didn't imply that at all. Also animals in nature kill and eat other animals so there's that. As to your example with putting a pig in a cage for three years anyway, we put people in prisoners for more than half their lifetimes. A pig is less capable of intelligent thought than a human is, and at least a pig gets used at the end of those three years, a human is just kept alive and then thrown in the ground after all that suffering they endure. With your example it wouldn't be a stretch to say that we shouldn't have prisons for criminals since people are animals and keeping them in cages is wrong. :downs:.[/QUOTE]
I love meat, but I don't think this argument is right. As humans, we are intelligent enough to choose what we eat and have the means to eat what we choose. Prisoners are imprisoned because they made a choice that was against the law, and are being held responsible for it. Neither of those apply to animals.
[QUOTE=draugur;44778159]I didn't imply that at all. Also animals in nature kill and eat other animals so there's that. As to your example with putting a pig in a cage for three years anyway, we put people in prisoners for more than half their lifetimes. A pig is less capable of intelligent thought than a human is, and at least a pig gets used at the end of those three years, a human is just kept alive and then thrown in the ground after all that suffering they endure. With your example it wouldn't be a stretch to say that we shouldn't have prisons for criminals since people are animals and keeping them in cages is wrong. :downs:|
At least to some degree, a pig or other animal in a cage is better off than a human in prison, as that animal doesn't have the mental capacity to understand, it simply knows what it knows, which is that environment, and then it dies. They don't have a concept of freedom, of recorded history, what they know is all they will know, and they have nothing to compare it to. [B]A human in a prison cell has those things to torment it mentally.[/B] A person born into slavery knows nothing else, and if it knows not of any other existence, will accept that existence as natural, not knowing of any alternative, humans are smart though, they can imagine other alternatives, and will, a pig is not that smart, it doesn't have a concept of culture or even really simple mathmatics, it is a pig, it may be aware of its existence and treating it well for that reason is moral and just, but capable of complex thought it is not, and thus, it doesn't suffer as much.
Please return when you have an argument that actually holds water as to why EVERYONE should suddenly drop a method of energy intake that has been around for thousands of years simply because you think it is inhumane in the current form. Did we stop using oil when we figured out that burning it had a negative effect on the climate? No, we've worked to make it as clean as we can with technology, but it can't be phased out yet simply because it is still needed until we have the technological means to replace it. Eventually we'll be able to grow meat on an industrial scale like we've experimented with in labs, but until then, we have to work with what we got. Rome wasn't built in a day, and the end to slaughterhouse practice can't go away overnight. Oh and free range animals exist, so there's that.[/QUOTE]I don't know how you can say this and then say that a pig being trapped in a cage doesn't suffer as much as a human does. Being trapped in a cage no matter what animal you are takes a huge toll on one's mental state, pigs aren't as dumb as you think they are.
[QUOTE=SamPerson123;44778192]I love meat, but I don't think this argument is right. As humans, we are intelligent enough to choose what we eat and have the means to eat what we choose. Prisoners are imprisoned because they made a choice that was against the law, and are being held responsible for it. Neither of those apply to animals.[/QUOTE]There's this too.
[QUOTE=SamPerson123;44778192]I love meat, but I don't think this argument is right. As humans, we are intelligent enough to choose what we eat and have the means to eat what we choose. Prisoners are imprisoned because they made a choice that was against the law, and are being held responsible for it. Neither of those apply to animals.[/QUOTE]
A law is simply a construct of complex society. A good few murderers are there because they felt they were wronged, and killing the person was the right action. To them, they are being held there for no real reason either. Not only this but there are a good few false imprisonments, these same people are being subject to this apparent extreme cruelty for no reason as well. Throw out why they are there, throw out that the pig is there to be turned into food product, they are the same, we, an intelligent species, put them there in their own cruel suffering, to benefit the rest of us. It is the same, they are there because it benefits us for them to be there. There is no difference other than the human ultimately suffers more, simply because he understands his now surroundings, has experienced a better alternative, and is capable of imagining a better alternative. A pig however, is ignorant of those concepts, making it better off.
[editline]10th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killer900;44778221]I don't know how you can say this and then say that a pig being trapped in a cage doesn't suffer as much as a human does. Being trapped in a cage no matter what animal you are takes a huge toll on one's mental state, pigs aren't as dumb as you think they are.
There's this too.[/QUOTE]
I never said it didn't take a toll on their mental state, or that it was humane or right in any way. Simply that it is the same as putting a human in a prison. We just have no better alternatives at the moment is all, an evil needed is an evil committed. Nothing will change until something better comes along to satisfy the need. Vegetarianism is not capable of filling that need on a global level, we do not have the technology or infrastructure. Growing meat as we do in labs is honestly the only viable solution, and we're years away from it, as we are with replacing fossil fuels for better alternatives. The only real thing we can do now is improve the conditions by which we produce meat. Instead of preaching an extreme, like vegetarianism, use the modern slaughterhouse as a reason to innovate in meat production toward the goal of a completely humane meat.
Its hard to take PETA seriously at all
[img]http://4gifs.org/gallery/d/218300-1/Peta_furries.jpg[/img]
[video=youtube;mlF5QN8S3ww]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlF5QN8S3ww[/video]
They used eggs, bacon, and milk making this video. Hypocrites.
You guys are forgetting that going Vegan gives you superpowers.
I don't know why they didn't mention it in the video.
Really I'm fine with people personally choosing to be vegetarian, and I am even fine with them giving me the benefits of it, because yes, modern slaughter houses are morally wrong, but trying to tell me I'm wrong and evil for liking meat is like telling me I'm wrong and evil for not believing in your religion. Instead, spread the word of scientific progress to humane meat, drum hype for a better alternative, telling people the only solution to a large part of life for thousands of years is to completely change the way they live will never see a good result, especially if you tell them that if they don't do as you say, they're literally Satan-Hitler-hybrids.
I however am not okay with veganism, as it is an extremist lifestyle, and because I have never met a vegan that wasn't radically batshit to the point where they clearly appeared dirty all the time as if they never washed and looked malnourished as fuck. Pro tip, there's a reason that disease spread so much earlier in history, keeping clean is VERY important to the health of our society. This might not be normal for some vegan people, however it has been my complete experience with veganism and I have been assured by the people of my experience, that it is normal. I was also verbally assaulted (and physically assaulted twice)on multiple occasions for asking why it was evil of me to use animal products instead of just agreeing with their viewpoints. So maybe I'm just callous to the ideology.
[QUOTE=draugur;44778324]wurds[/QUOTE]
I have no issue with vegetarians, many people(including one of my sisters) are vegetarian by health reasons. My sister can't digest meat properly and it makes her sick, so she eats vegetarian stuff, and still eats cheese and drinks milk. Not that many vegetarians are eccentric assholes.
Vegans are a problem. The vast majority are doing it as a way to be a shithead. I personally know no vegans, but i've met people who claim to be vegan, all while drinking a milkshake, or eating an egg mcmuffin. Real vegans that aren't doing it to be massive trolls are few and far between.
[QUOTE=Cuon Alpinus;44778279]You guys are forgetting that going Vegan gives you superpowers.
I don't know why they didn't mention it in the video.[/QUOTE]
Gotta be careful with 'em though, or else the Vegan police will come and take them away.
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