Anime - Why do most people here hate it? - General

[QUOTE=ashzu;22179493]What job are you aiming for in media?[/QUOTE] Mainly Graphical Design. But I want to be a multifunctional guy. Animation, video editing and filming, photographer and graphical designer mainly. It's attractive to hire and creates for more variation. I'm a quick technical learner so it's not a problem in that area.

I really don't see the point in focusing on anime, as if it has some sort of magical property that cannot be attained by us baka gaijins(possibly pedophillic undertones). So, why is anime so special? [editline]12:42PM[/editline] [QUOTE=dgg;22179402]Uh... No. I still follow that guideline. My taste just differ highly from the norm. Like Miyazaki movies are praised in the sky by anime lovers and haters alike. And I sit there and don't understand shit of why these generic children movies are getting all this praise. They're good. But nothing really great. I've only seen one review that was critical towards most of his works, otherwise I've only heard praise and whenver I say he's bad I get box invaded. But neither me nor my friend understood what all the fuss is about becuase the works I've seen by him that is the most praised were not creative, original or anything. Besides some cool creature designs.[/QUOTE] Newsflash motherfucker, nothing is creative. [I]Every[/I] story has been done before, [I]every[/I] character has been explored before, and [I]every[/I] design has been done before. All you can ever do is make minor variations on already existing templates. Every artist steals shit from all the artists before him, that's just how it works. What matters, and what makes Miyazaki brilliant, is his near flawless execution of those stories.

[QUOTE=dgg;22179402]Uh... No. I still follow that guideline. My taste just differ highly from the norm. Like Miyazaki movies are praised in the sky by anime lovers and haters alike. And I sit there and don't understand shit of why these generic children movies are getting all this praise. They're good. But nothing really great. I've only seen one review that was critical towards most of his works, otherwise I've only heard praise and whenver I say he's bad I get box invaded. But neither me nor my friend understood what all the fuss is about becuase the works I've seen by him that is the most praised were not creative, original or anything. Besides some cool creature designs.[/QUOTE] If you have to throw out a polite "good, but not great" that means you basically fail and don't get it. I know what you're going to say, "I did get it, it just wasn't all that good" but the thing is, there are reasons for liking something and reasons for disliking something. But there really aren't reasons for disliking and liking the same thing at the same time for the same reason. And if somebody really likes something that you can't see the fuss about, that doesn't mean they are stupid you must keep in mind, it means you don't understand that reason, because if you did, you would like it just as much as them. And likewise if they understood why you disliked it, they would come to see that maybe it isn't all cake and glitter in Miyazaki land. But that might not matter because the reason for liking it is still there, and vice versa of course. I just want to point out how bullshit a phrase "nothing special" really is. Either you get why it's good or you don't. You can learn, and you can even learn why it might suck, but it will be a different reason from why it's good. I kinda liked Totoro though, it was fuzzy and weird. And just plain enjoyable.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179579]So, why is anime so special?[/QUOTE] It isn't. It's not different from your normal movies and TV shows. But it's different and like everything else it has it's handful of really good shows.

[QUOTE=dgg;22179518]Mainly Graphical Design. But I want to be a multifunctional guy. Animation, video editing and filming, photographer and graphical designer mainly. It's attractive to hire and creates for more variation. I'm a quick technical learner so it's not a problem in that area.[/QUOTE] You know, I hear a lot about people taking jobs because they're "hireable" or because they bring in a good salary, but I can't remember the last time I've heard someone say they want to do something because they like doing it. I don't know, that just bugs me. [editline]12:46PM[/editline] [QUOTE=BmB;22179628]If you have to throw out a polite "good, but not great" that means you basically fail and don't get it. I know what you're going to say, "I did get it, it just wasn't all that good" but the thing is, there are reasons for liking something and reasons for disliking something. But there really aren't reasons for disliking and liking the same thing at the same time for the same reason. And if somebody really likes something that you can't see the fuss about, that doesn't mean they are stupid you must keep in mind, it means you don't understand that reason, because if you did, you would like it just as much as them. And likewise if they understood why you disliked it, they would come to see that maybe it isn't all cake and glitter in Miyazaki land. But that might not matter because the reason for liking it is still there, and vice versa of course. I just want to point out how bullshit a phrase "nothing special" really is. Either you get why it's good or you don't. You can learn, and you can even learn why it might suck, but it will be a different reason from why it's good. I kinda liked Totoro though, it was fuzzy and weird. And just plain enjoyable.[/QUOTE] There's no point in criticism if you are, A. Less competent than the creator. B. Unable to articulate why you disliked the content. If you can't prove you're better than them and you can't say why they're not all that good, then what you're saying is nothing more than hot air. [editline]12:47PM[/editline] [QUOTE=dgg;22179634]It isn't. It's not different from your normal movies and TV shows. But it's different and like everything else it has it's handful of really good shows.[/QUOTE] Well it obviously has something that's particularly attractive, as there's a fandom surrounding the thing.

No I agree with dgg Mizaki movies are good but they're nothing special, they are childrens stories. It's like watching a disney movie.

[QUOTE=BmB;22179628]If you have to throw out a polite "good, but not great" that means you basically fail and don't get it. I know what you're going to say, "I did get it, it just wasn't all that good" but the thing is, there are reasons for liking something and reasons for disliking something. But there really aren't reasons for disliking and liking the same thing at the same time for the same reason. And if somebody really likes something that you can't see the fuss about, that doesn't mean they are stupid you must keep in mind, it means you don't understand that reason, because if you did, you would like it just as much as them. And likewise if they understood why you disliked it, they would come to see that maybe it isn't all cake and glitter in Miyazaki land. But that might not matter because the reason for liking it is still there, and vice versa of course. I just want to point out how bullshit a phrase "nothing special" really is. I kinda liked Totoro though, it was fuzzy and weird. And just plain enjoyable.[/QUOTE] Uh... What? Good but not great means that I thought it was good, but it wasn't so good it was great. When did I say I disliked and liked it for the same reasons? I like it for the art and animation, the stories, plot and storytelling is really generic and flat and nothing we haven't seen in Pixar and Disney movies a million times, but it is enjoyable. I never called people stupid, what the fuck is up with that missunderstanding? "Oh no, you're saying you don't like him and you wonder why other people like him. You are implying they are stupid. Not just curious about why they like it whilst you don't." I could very well understand the exact same thing other people understand and still dislike it. That's what taste is all about. Reacting differently towards the exact same thing with the exact same understanding of it. "Nothing special" is a very valid phrase. When something is "nothing special", then it means it is your standard movie. You know. Like hollywood movies, they're all basically the same, follow the same buildups, same morales, same story tellings, basically the same plots and very similar stories. When you've watched 5-10 hollywood movies you've almost watched all of them. But that doesn't make the next hollywood movie bad, it just makes it "nothing special" because it isn't anything special.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179651] Well it obviously has something that's particularly attractive, as there's a fandom surrounding the thing.[/QUOTE] There's fandom surrounding everything What makes furries so special?

[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;22179691]No I agree with dgg Mizaki movies are good but they're nothing special, they are childrens stories. It's like watching a disney movie.[/QUOTE] Yes, I remember when Prince Ashitaka was taking peoples heads and arms off, "God, this is just like Alladin!". Bitch please. There's a difference between a simple stereotype animation fart made by a media giant trying to recapture some semblance of it's old greatness, and a story of a family trying to adapt in a rural environment with a possibly dying mother.

I hate what it does to people. People dress up like freaks, get so obsessed it just gets weird. [editline]08:51AM[/editline] The stories and characters are a little bit too much sometimes too.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179722]Yes, I remember when Prince Ashitaka was taking peoples heads and arms off, "God, this is just like Alladin!". Bitch please. There's a difference between a simple stereotype animation fart made by a media giant trying to recapture some semblance of it's old greatness, and a story of a family trying to adapt in a rural environment with a possibly dying mother.[/QUOTE] Like TH89 said gore doesn't make things mature or adult. The stories are still childrens stories about accepting and shite [editline]12:53PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Wayword;22179726]I hate what it does to people. People dress up like freaks, get so obsessed it just gets weird. [editline]08:51AM[/editline] The stories and characters are a little bit too much sometimes too.[/QUOTE] It doesn't do anything to people, people who do that are already like that. If it hadn't existed they'd probably be doing something else obsessively.

[QUOTE=dgg;22179700]I could very well understand the exact same thing other people understand and still dislike it. That's what taste is all about. Reacting differently towards the exact same thing with the exact same understanding of it.[/QUOTE] Bullshit. The reason you have such a thing as difference of taste in the first place is because you understand the same thing from different perspectives. And in this case either you see it from the perspective where Miyazaki is great or you don't. The thing is, if people praise it, that means there's a reason for that praise. And if you say it's nothing special, that means you really think it's shit and want to be polite about it. In other words, you don't get the perspective from which it is great but don't want to kick up a shitstorm.

[QUOTE=dgg;22179700]Uh... What? Good but not great means that I thought it was good, but it wasn't so good it was great. When did I say I disliked and liked it for the same reasons? I like it for the art and animation, the stories, plot and storytelling is really generic and flat and nothing we haven't seen in Pixar and Disney movies a million times, but it is enjoyable. I never called people stupid, what the fuck is up with that missunderstanding? "Oh no, you're saying you don't like him and you wonder why other people like him. You are implying they are stupid. Not just curious about why they like it whilst you don't." I could very well understand the exact same thing other people understand and still dislike it. That's what taste is all about. Reacting differently towards the exact same thing with the exact same understanding of it. "Nothing special" is a very valid phrase. When something is "nothing special", then it means it is your standard movie. You know. Like hollywood movies, they're all basically the same, follow the same buildups, same morales, same story tellings, basically the same plots and very similar stories. When you've watched 5-10 hollywood movies you've almost watched all of them. But that doesn't make the next hollywood movie bad, it just makes it "nothing special" because it isn't anything special.[/QUOTE] Oh really? Because I think I missed that Disney movie about the fallen prince trying to make peace between an unstoppable war machine and an ancient and stubborn army trying to blindly bulldoze it's way over something it can't defeat. Maybe it came out between that movie about the princess wanting more out of life and that other princess wanting more out of life.

[QUOTE=BmB;22179763]Bullshit. The reason you have such a thing as difference of taste in the first place is because you understand the same thing from different perspectives. And in this case either you see it from the perspective where Miyazaki is great or you don't. The thing is, if people praise it, that means there's a reason for that praise. And if you say it's nothing special, that means you really think it's shit and want to be polite about it. In other words, you don't get the perspective from which it is great but don't want to kick up a shitstorm.[/QUOTE] The only one calling anybody names is you he never called you an idiot but he probably made you feel like an idiot. Saying something is nothing special means that it is nothing special, but you seem to think it means it is shit.

Anything other than great means shit relative to great. That's why you have a dichotomy between good and great at all.

[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;22179734]Like TH89 said gore doesn't make things mature or adult. The stories are still childrens stories about accepting and shite [editline]12:53PM[/editline] It doesn't do anything to people, people who do that are already like that. If it hadn't existed they'd probably be doing something else obsessively.[/QUOTE] Oh, so I assume Predator was a childrens movie.

[QUOTE=Zachary1392;22179069][url]http://www.myvideo.de/watch/6392177/DMC_Krauser_II_raping_Tokyo_Tower[/url] I love this show so much.[/QUOTE] That show is fucking hardcore

[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;22179779]The only one calling anybody names is you he never called you an idiot but he probably made you feel like an idiot. Saying something is nothing special means that it is nothing special, but you seem to think it means it is shit.[/QUOTE] The point is that his definition of "nothing special" encapsulates [I]all movies.[/I] You know, there's a reason they say you can find all stories in Shakespeare's works.

[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;22179734] It doesn't do anything to people, people who do that are already like that. If it hadn't existed they'd probably be doing something else obsessively.[/QUOTE] Weird people tend to be drawn to it, and that's what I don't like about it. If I were to meet some random that also likes anime, there's a chance they'd be fucking insanely weird.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179651]You know, I hear a lot about people taking jobs because they're "hireable" or because they bring in a good salary, but I can't remember the last time I've heard someone say they want to do something because they like doing it. I don't know, that just bugs me.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179651]There's no point in criticism if you are, A. Less competent than the creator. B. Unable to articulate why you disliked the content.[/QUOTE] How competent you are have absolutely nothing to do with criticism. If you're going to shut out everybody just because they aren't as competent as you then you're an elitist prick that'll never improve. You can be more right than a fully educated person without having education yourself. 96% of the times I'm fully able to articulate why I dislike something. But just because you can't put your finger on it or don't know how to express it does not mean you are wrong. That's again a very elitist and arrogant way of thinking. Your brain fully well knows what's wrong, you're just not able to grasp it. What's wrong is wrong, and nothing is going to change that. What is defined as wrong is however a subjective matter. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179651]If you can't prove you're better than them and you can't say why they're not all that good, then what you're saying is nothing more than hot air.[/QUOTE] If you can't neither of those things then you'll obviously be ignored by most people, that is understandable. But that doesn't make it wrong, the person just can't express to you why he is right. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179651]Well it obviously has something that's particularly attractive, as there's a fandom surrounding the thing.[/QUOTE] Like Fire Kracker said. Anything will have a fandom around it, the same everything is a fetish. There is also the contrast between what kind of stories the Eastern makes contra the stories the Western makes. Some people dig the language. Some dig the culture. Some dig the overly sexual content. Some dig the martial arts. The possibilities are endless but none of them are a sole reason. But I think the main thing is as said, the difference, we grew up with western media, but eastern media becomes something new and fresh because we haven't really grown up with it. [QUOTE=Wayword;22179726]I hate what it does to people. People dress up like freaks, get so obsessed it just gets weird. The stories and characters are a little bit too much sometimes too.[/QUOTE] People do the same shit with Starwars and Star Trek. Start hating on western movies please. [QUOTE=BmB;22179763]Bullshit. The reason you have such a thing as difference of taste in the first place is because you understand the same thing from different perspectives. And in this case either you see it from the perspective where Miyazaki is great or you don't. The thing is, if people praise it, that means there's a reason for that praise. And if you say it's nothing special, that means you really think it's shit and want to be polite about it. In other words, you don't get the perspective from which it is great but don't want to kick up a shitstorm.[/QUOTE] Of course I see things from a different perspective because I'm a different person. No single person can look at something from the exact same perspective, implying you can makes you a dumbass. But it isn't as black as white as "Miyazaki suck or rocks", nothing in life is. But things are often classified as such to make it easier. You have a point, and at the same time you don't. Generic pop(ular) music is widely popular and praised by many. That does not mean that these songs that follow a commercial setup is actually good. They just play on the right strings to become catchy enough to be liked, but they are easily forgotten again. And I love a lot of pop music, but that doesn't mean I think they are great or well made or anything like htat, I just like them. And the reason I'm asking why he is such a great man is TO GET TO KNOW THAT PERSPECTIVE. But then people just go all like "Dude, don't hate Miyazaki" "You're inhuman" and all that shit.

here comes dgg bringing the own

[QUOTE=dgg;22179864] People do the same shit with Starwars and Star Trek. Start hating on western movies please. [/QUOTE] Except: 1) Most people like at least one of those, including your parents, those things are way more mainstream. Anime is a fringe teen thing in America. 2) I don't really like either of those, it's not like I'm a closet trekkie who hates anime.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179775]Oh really? Because I think I missed that Disney movie about the fallen prince trying to make peace between an unstoppable war machine and an ancient and stubborn army trying to blindly bulldoze it's way over something it can't defeat. Maybe it came out between that movie about the princess wanting more out of life and that other princess wanting more out of life.[/QUOTE] The story and settings may be different, but in the core it's the exact same shit. Shitty super flat love accompanied with the good versus evil where the good always wins. The evil guys wants martial goods or power and almost achieve it, but in the last second the good overpowers them and wins. [editline]03:08PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Wayword;22179881]Except: 1) Most people like at least one of those, those things are way more mainstream. Anime is a fringe teen thing in America. 2) I don't really like either of those, it's not like I'm a closet trekkie who hates anime.[/QUOTE] Most cosplays are just from mainstream anime. You just don't know what anime is mainstream or not. You're still comparing all of Japanese animation towards specific movies and such. Anime isn't something you can group up and say that everyone that watches it becomes like that and that. Because the exact same shit happens in movies and TV shows over here too.

That's often a problem- articulating thoughts, or feelings rather, can be a very difficult excersize. Cut them some slack, show you're open and push some buttons to make them do it. It's hard but it's possible. But denying their opinions validity is the number one way to get people to clam up like a shell and start regurgitating how wrong you are. It may not seem to you like simply saying "it's good but not great" means anything of the sort, semantically, but as I said before, that really is how people think of the term "great". And you have to work with that. Personally I don't even know why I liked Totoro yet, maybe I just like strange things.

My GF cosplays, a good portion of her friends that watch anime also cosplay. I play WoW, people that play WoW can cosplay, except I don't know a single person that does it. People do cosplay from western movies/TV shows/games, it's just much more uncommon.

[QUOTE=BmB;22179792]Anything other than great means shit relative to great. That's why you have a dichotomy between good and great at all.[/QUOTE] Utter crap. 1/10 Really horrible. 2/10 Very bad. 3/10 Bad. 4/10 Meh. 5/10 Kinda good. 6/10 Good. 7/10 Very good. 8/10 Great. 9/10 Excellent. 10/10

Also, I went to one of her anime conventions, the people there are just too weird for me, which is why I don't like anime, so I don't have anything in common with them.

[QUOTE=Wayword;22179926]My GF cosplays, a good portion of her friends that watch anime also cosplay. I play WoW, people that play WoW can cosplay, except I don't know a single person that does it. People do cosplay from western movies/TV shows/games, it's just much more uncommon.[/QUOTE] It's more well known and focused on in media. But you've just ended up with the kind of friends who were influenced that heavily. I know about 10-12 other friends that watch anime and only one of them cosplays. [editline]03:12PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Wayword;22179934]Also, I went to one of her anime conventions, the people there are just too weird for me, which is why I don't like anime, so I don't have anything in common with them.[/QUOTE] Only weird people go to anime conventions. It's common sense to stay the fuck away from such events. Making events at all over anime is just... ugh...

[QUOTE=dgg;22179864]How competent you are have absolutely nothing to do with criticism. If you're going to shut out everybody just because they aren't as competent as you then you're an elitist prick that'll never improve. You can be more right than a fully educated person without having education yourself. [B]I was talking about the film maker, not me, chief.[/B] 96% of the times I'm fully able to articulate why I dislike something. But just because you can't put your finger on it or don't know how to express it does not mean you are wrong. That's again a very elitist and arrogant way of thinking. Your brain fully well knows what's wrong, you're just not able to grasp it. What's wrong is wrong, and nothing is going to change that. What is defined as wrong is however a subjective matter. [B]Yeah it does. If I just say, "I didn't like it because I didn't like it", I have no grounds on which to disagree with anybody saying it's great. You could also have horrible taste in movies. Which is quite possible, considering you're disagreeing with the majority of the people who've seen the movie.[/B] If you can't neither of those things then you'll obviously be ignored by most people, that is understandable. But that doesn't make it wrong, the person just can't express to you why he is right. [B]It doesn't make it wrong expressly, it just means there's no reason for anyone besides you to heed your opinion in any way shape or form.[/B] Like Fire Kracker said. Anything will have a fandom around it, the same everything is a fetish. There is also the contrast between what kind of stories the Eastern makes contra the stories the Western makes. Some people dig the language. Some dig the culture. Some dig the overly sexual content. Some dig the martial arts. The possibilities are endless but none of them are a sole reason. But I think the main thing is as said, the difference, we grew up with western media, but eastern media becomes something new and fresh because we haven't really grown up with it. People do the same shit with Starwars and Star Trek. Start hating on western movies please. [B]I don't hate anime.[/B] Of course I see things from a different perspective because I'm a different person. No single person can look at something from the exact same perspective, implying you can makes you a dumbass. [B]True, but anybody who knows how to tell a story can explain why a certain person's story blows ass. This is called analyzation.[/B] But it isn't as black as white as "Miyazaki suck or rocks", nothing in life is. But things are often classified as such to make it easier. You have a point, and at the same time you don't. Generic pop(ular) music is widely popular and praised by many. That does not mean that these songs that follow a commercial setup is actually good. They just play on the right strings to become catchy enough to be liked, but they are easily forgotten again. And I love a lot of pop music, but that doesn't mean I think they are great or well made or anything like htat, I just like them. [B]There's a reason it's called popular music. Because it's popular right now. Miyazakis movies have been around for decades, and are still widely accepted as some of, if not the best example of story telling in Japanese animation.[/B] And the reason I'm asking why he is such a great man is TO GET TO KNOW THAT PERSPECTIVE. But then people just go all like "Dude, don't hate Miyazaki" "You're inhuman" and all that shit.[/QUOTE] I explained why he's a brilliant director. Unless you want a point by point analysis of all his movies, which I can do given enough time. Though I doubt anyone would read it.

[QUOTE=dgg;22179927]Utter crap. 1/10 Really horrible. 2/10 Very bad. 3/10 Bad. 4/10 Meh. 5/10 Kinda good. 6/10 Good. 7/10 Very good. 8/10 Great. 9/10 Excellent. 10/10[/QUOTE] The problem is you can't pull a numerical listing out of your ass like that and expect people to know what you mean at all. By their nature pretty much all of these words are entirely incompatible with numeric scores.