Anime - Why do most people here hate it? - General

[QUOTE=BmB;22179910]That's often a problem- articulating thoughts, or feelings rather, can be a very difficult excersize. Cut them some slack, show you're open and push some buttons to make them do it. It's hard but it's possible. But denying their opinions validity is the number one way to get people to clam up like a shell and start regurgitating how wrong you are. It may not seem to you like simply saying "it's good but not great" means anything of the sort, semantically, but as I said before, that really is how people think of the term "great". And you have to work with that. Personally I don't even know why I liked Totoro yet, maybe I just like strange things.[/QUOTE] I always inform people about how open I actually am and why I express myself as I do when they start missunderstanding. I've never denied peoples opinions validity. I question their opinions with my opinions. And if you can't handle that then you're unsociale or don't know how to talk to people since that's what a question and discussion is all about. Also just simply talking to eachother.

[QUOTE=BmB;22179910]That's often a problem- articulating thoughts, or feelings rather, can be a very difficult excersize. Cut them some slack, show you're open and push some buttons to make them do it. It's hard but it's possible. But denying their opinions validity is the number one way to get people to clam up like a shell and start regurgitating how wrong you are. It may not seem to you like simply saying "it's good but not great" means anything of the sort, semantically, but as I said before, that really is how people think of the term "great". And you have to work with that. Personally I don't even know why I liked Totoro yet, maybe I just like strange things.[/QUOTE] I do. But if in the end they still can't explain why Miyazaki makes childrens films, I'm going to call them a close minded douche and disregard their opinion. Because people who adhere to positions they can't defend are douches.

[QUOTE=BmB;22179974]The problem is you can't pull a numerical listing out of your ass like that and expect people to know what you mean at all. By their nature pretty much all of these words are entirely incompatible with numeric scores.[/QUOTE] That was just a summarization of the words and their meanings to me. The actual meaning and lines will always have a line that is impossible to see and only comes out through actual explanation and digging in details.

[QUOTE=dgg;22179882]The story and settings may be different, but in the core it's the exact same shit. Shitty super flat love accompanied with the good versus evil where the good always wins. The evil guys wants martial goods or power and almost achieve it, but in the last second the good overpowers them and wins. [editline]03:08PM[/editline] Most cosplays are just from mainstream anime. You just don't know what anime is mainstream or not. You're still comparing all of Japanese animation towards specific movies and such. Anime isn't something you can group up and say that everyone that watches it becomes like that and that. Because the exact same shit happens in movies and TV shows over here too.[/QUOTE] Like I just said, [I]all[/I] stories have been told. It's a matter of subtext. Can you honestly not tell the difference between a Japanese monk hiring himself out for money and fucking Maleficent?

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179959]I explained why he's a brilliant director. Unless you want a point by point analysis of all his movies, which I can do given enough time. Though I doubt anyone would read it.[/QUOTE] Why did you have to do the quote answer? Now I have to copy paste every sentence into quote tags. Agh...

[QUOTE=dgg;22179927]Utter crap. 1/10 Really horrible. 2/10 Very bad. 3/10 Bad. 4/10 Meh. 5/10 Kinda good. 6/10 Good. 7/10 Very good. 8/10 Great. 9/10 Excellent. 10/10[/QUOTE] For me: 1-4 Bad 5-6 Meh 7-8 Good 9 Awesome 10 Legendary

People generally don't know how to conduct a discussion. If you do and they don't I'd say it's largely your responsibility to create an environment in which their ignorance becomes workable.

[QUOTE=dgg;22180008]Why did you have to do the quote answer? Now I have to copy paste every sentence into quote tags. Agh...[/QUOTE] It's either that or an incoherent wall. Chose your poison.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22180005]Like I just said, [I]all[/I] stories have been told. It's a matter of subtext. Can you honestly not tell the difference between a Japanese monk hiring himself out for money and fucking Maleficent?[/QUOTE] Yes, they have. And Miyazaki sucks at re-telling them in a different or original way. I can. But I don't see much difference in them other than the motive to do the same thing. [editline]03:20PM[/editline] [QUOTE=BmB;22180019]People generally don't know how to conduct a discussion. If you do and they don't I'd say it's largely your responsibility to create an environment in which their ignorance becomes workable.[/QUOTE] I do that. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22180022]It's either that or an incoherent wall. Chose your poison.[/QUOTE] I don't mind walls of text. You should have noticed that by now.

[QUOTE=dgg;22180025]Yes, they have. And Miyazaki sucks at re-telling them in a different or original way. I can. But I don't see much difference in them other than the motive to do the same thing. [editline]03:20PM[/editline] I do that. I don't mind walls of text. You should have noticed that by now.[/QUOTE] Give me an example of someone who does.

Stop! Hold on a second. Don't pull out examples and start picking them apart, that leads nowhere, see what happened when I mentioned Haruhi? Yeah, doesn't really work out. Instead I think dgg should elaborate on his viewpoint of genericness. So far it is very blanket and well, generic. Likewise the response from Scorpio should be a verbalisation of how he feels the telling of the stories is unique. Maybe that will lead somewhere. Just--- you know, IMHO and all. Don't have to listen to me or anything... I'll just go now.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179959]Yeah it does. If I just say, "I didn't like it because I didn't like it", I have no grounds on which to disagree with anybody saying it's great.[/QUOTE] Obviously not. But again, that doesn't mean that he is wrong. That's why any kind of criticism should be taken to heart, just that some should be regarded higher and more correct than others, for that very reason. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179959]You could also have horrible taste in movies. Which is quite possible, considering you're disagreeing with the majority of the people who've seen the movie.[/QUOTE] Or just a highly critical and more radical taste. I enjoy experimental stuff much more than anything else. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179959]I don't hate anime.[/QUOTE] That post wasn't directed at you either, so. :) [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179959]True, but anybody who knows how to tell a story can explain why a certain person's story blows ass. This is called analyzation.[/QUOTE] Yes. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22179959]There's a reason it's called popular music. Because it's popular right now. Miyazakis movies have been around for decades, and are still widely accepted as some of, if not the best example of story telling in Japanese animation.[/QUOTE] Dear God... He's praised that highly? Ugh... People really love Disney and Pixar like movies. Simple movies with great animation and visuals with a very weak and simple story and plot with some love thrown into it one way or another. Drag in the evil versus good balance and you're set to go. Make sure that it is possible for both adults and kids to watch and enjoy. [editline]03:31PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22180037]Give me an example of someone who does.[/QUOTE] Does tell good stories? Quentin Tarantino. Or did you need some anime example? the movie Mind Game... I don't know who's in charge because I honestly don't care about staff at all. But I can google it up. [QUOTE=BmB;22180066]Stop! Hold on a second. Don't pull out examples and start picking them apart, that leads nowhere, see what happened when I mentioned Haruhi? Yeah, doesn't really work out. Instead I think dgg should elaborate on his viewpoint of genericness. So far it is very blanket and well, generic. Likewise the response from Scorpio should be a verbalisation of how he feels the telling of the stories is unique. Maybe that will lead somewhere. Just--- you know, IMHO and all. Don't have to listen to me or anything... I'll just go now.[/QUOTE] No. It worked out very well in my opinion. Me and TH89 has come very close to a closed and agreed point of view and conclusion. We've been digging into eachothers opinions and come to conclusions that we can agree on, even if we do have slightly different viewpoints on them. Hah, that'll take some work and digging. There is so much I find generic, and there is so much stuff I can find generic and still like. It's such a broad library and much of it can be hard to put a finger on because I can like it too. It has much to do with the whole experience of art, animation, music, voice acting, timing and buildup.

[QUOTE=dgg;22180097]Obviously not. But again, that doesn't mean that he is wrong. That's why any kind of criticism should be taken to heart, just that some should be regarded higher and more correct than others, for that very reason. Or just a highly critical and more radical taste. I enjoy experimental stuff much more than anything else. That post wasn't directed at you either, so. :) Yes. Dear God... He's praised that highly? Ugh... People really love Disney and Pixar like movies. Simple movies with great animation and visuals with a very weak and simple story and plot with some love thrown into it one way or another. Drag in the evil versus good balance and you're set to go. Make sure that it is possible for both adults and kids to watch and enjoy.[/QUOTE] Obviously that's all there is to it, right? That's exactly why the most well known and popular movies of all time are Black Cauldron, Robin Hood, Aristocats, and the Rescuers. Oh wait, no they aren't because those movies fucking sucked and film making is more than a simple combination of elements. Oh yes, and I'm sure that the fact that Up was about an old man trying to adapt to a new world has [B]nothing[/B] to do with it's greatness. Nope, it was all about him vs. Muntz, in fact I remember absolutely nothing except those bits.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22180149]Obviously that's all there is to it, right? That's exactly why the most well known and popular movies of all time are Black Cauldron, Robin Hood, Aristocats, and the Rescuers. Oh wait, no they aren't because those movies fucking sucked and film making is more than a simple combination of elements. Oh yes, and I'm sure that the fact that Up was about an old man trying to adapt to a new world has [B]nothing[/B] to do with it's greatness. Nope, it was all about him vs. Muntz, in fact I remember absolutely nothing except those bits.[/QUOTE] Mind you that I've stated these are the core elements I'm talking about. And yes, I am giving very very strong impressions that I dislike Pixar movies. But I don't. Up was great, and so was Wall-E. Wall-E was great for the emotions put into the robot, but not so much the actual story going on. Up was great for the old mans emotions. Maybe I should say Dreamwork and Disney movies in stead. Makes more sense.

[QUOTE=dgg;22180097]Does tell good stories? Quentin Tarantino. Or did you need some anime example? the movie Mind Game... I don't know who's in charge because I honestly don't care about staff at all. But I can google it up.[/QUOTE] Mind Game was hardly a literary masterpiece of story telling. I don't know, I just think it's hard to tell a coherent story when you have someone being murdered in one scene, and God rubbing his tits in the main characters face in the next. Don't get me wrong, I loved that movie, but it had almost no through line whatsoever. It was practically spontaneous.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22180222]Mind Game was hardly a literary masterpiece of story telling. I don't know, I just think it's hard to tell a coherent story when you have someone being murdered in one scene, and God rubbing his tits in the main characters face in the next. Don't get me wrong, I loved that movie, but it had almost no through line whatsoever. It was practically spontaneous.[/QUOTE] It didn't have a through line? It was simply about decisions in life. How one decision will radically change the whole future. It's nothing deep, but it was great.

[QUOTE=dgg;22180195]Mind you that I've stated these are the core elements I'm talking about. And yes, I am giving very very strong impressions that I dislike Pixar movies. But I don't. Up was great, and so was Wall-E. Wall-E was great for the emotions put into the robot, but not so much the actual story going on. Up was great for the old mans emotions. Maybe I should say Dreamwork and Disney movies in stead. Makes more sense.[/QUOTE] I'm somewhat confused here, first you said you disliked these stories because they were generic, but then you said you disliked them because they were told badly. I don't get it, is your idea of a great movie one with no clear opposition to the main character's goals? [editline]01:44PM[/editline] [QUOTE=dgg;22180229]It didn't have a through line? It was simply about decisions in life. How one decision will radically change the whole future. It's nothing deep, but it was great.[/QUOTE] Oh, so that's what that scenes with the chick with the water balloon breasts and cock slapping herself against a sheet of paper was about.

[QUOTE=BmB;22180066] I'll just go now.[/QUOTE] Cheerio

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22180234]I'm somewhat confused here, first you said you disliked these stories because they were generic, but then you said you disliked them because they were told badly. I don't get it, is your idea of a great movie one with no clear opposition to the main character's goals?[/QUOTE] Bad story telling usually causes it to become generic. A great movie is a movie with all elements intact and done in a great way. But it doesn't have to because it's the enjoyment that counts the most, but technical issues can put a limit on it when written down. I can talk a lot of shit about something and give the impression of it being utter shit without disliking it at all. The thing with enjoyment is that it can vary so much because of all factors that can change it on the same thing. Good day or bad day? Was I actually in the mood for a show/movie like that or not? Did I just eat dinner? Am I eating it whilst watching? Am I hungry? Am I stressing because I also have some work that I have to do later? In an hour or in a week? There is so much that can change the enjoyment vastly and make you less or more critical. Which will always be a problem. Also, no matter how much you analyze there is always the fact that some things are simply just enjoyable because they are. You can try and dig deep down to find out why you laugh at something, but you'll always be able to put a question to it, and in the end it has to end with "becuase I laugh at it". Which is really annoying. [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22180234]Oh, so that's what that scenes with the chick with the water balloon breasts and cock slapping herself against a sheet of paper was about.[/QUOTE] Hahhahahahah. Well played card good sire. Nah, not even I can explain that. But it was just simply great. Those kind of things were quite spontaneous, I can agree with that. Unless there is some over-analyzedish meaning behind it that no one will figure out, or people have figured out but will be looked upon as dumb fucks because it's typical over-analyzation stuff... Just that it isn't. Which would be quite ridicilous and unlikely.

[QUOTE=dgg;22180283]Bad story telling usually causes it to become generic. A great movie is a movie with all elements intact and done in a great way. But it doesn't have to because it's the enjoyment that counts the most, but technical issues can put a limit on it when written down. I can talk a lot of shit about something and give the impression of it being utter shit without disliking it at all. The thing with enjoyment is that it can vary so much because of all factors that can change it on the same thing. Good day or bad day? Was I actually in the mood for a show/movie like that or not? Did I just eat dinner? Am I eating it whilst watching? Am I hungry? Am I stressing because I also have some work that I have to do later? In an hour or in a week? There is so much that can change the enjoyment vastly and make you less or more critical. Which will always be a problem. Hahhahahahah. Well played card good sire. Nah, not even I can explain that. But it was just simply great.[/QUOTE] Well alright, let me give my critique of Kill Bill. I was watching it and then someone kicked me in the nuts. So I didn't like it. The movie sucks. The end. [editline]01:55PM[/editline] [QUOTE=dgg;22180283]Hahhahahahah. Well played card good sire. Nah, not even I can explain that. But it was just simply great. Those kind of things were quite spontaneous, I can agree with that. Unless there is some over-analyzedish meaning behind it that no one will figure out, or people have figured out but will be looked upon as dumb fucks because it's typical over-analyzation stuff... Just that it isn't. Which would be quite ridicilous and unlikely.[/QUOTE] Mind Game was an art film. It was about the art displayed therein, not the story. The story was a thin film of lemon glaze over a hearty chocolate cake, trying to say it's an example of great story telling is like saying a beach ball is a good example of a brick.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22180318]Well alright, let me give my critique of Kill Bill. I was watching it and then someone kicked me in the nuts. So I didn't like it. The movie sucks. The end. Mind Game was an art film. It was about the art displayed therein, not the story. The story was a thin film of lemon glaze over a hearty chocolate cake, trying to say it's an example of great story telling is like saying a beach ball is a good example of a brick.[/QUOTE] Ahaha, oh you. I said those kind of things will impact your enjoyment. Not fully control it. It was mainly about the art, yes. That's Studio C4's thing. But I wouldn't call the story thin. I thought it was a good example of story telling. The kind of story telling I like. As said, experimental stuff is my thing.

[QUOTE=dgg;22180364]Ahaha, oh you. I said those kind of things will impact your enjoyment. Not control it. It was mainly about the art, yes. That's Studio C4's thing. But I wouldn't call the story thin. I thought it was a good example of story telling. The kind of story telling I like. As said, experimental stuff is my thing.[/QUOTE] Well being kicked in the nuts "impacted my judgment" for the duration of the film. So therefor it sucked. Trying to argue the merits of the film based on abstract concepts is useless. This is what I'm trying to tell you, even if you don't "get it", even if you didn't like it, if you can't tell me why you don't like it, and you can't tell me why anyone would like it, there's no point to you saying anything at all, because you obviously have no idea how story telling or film making actually works. And there's especially no grounds for you to disagree with anyone on the subject. It's like if I pulled up some of Leonardo De Vinci's art work and said, This anatomy sucks because I don't like it. I may actually not like the way he draws the human body, but that doesn't mean his depictions of the human form aren't almost impeccably accurate.

[QUOTE=ashzu;22178066]Being Facepunch i highly doubt that. Got 168 dumbs and a 5 page shit storm because of one anime picture.[/QUOTE] Blame yourself for that.

It's not really the anime that I dislike, it's the people who watch it that make me hate it

[QUOTE=FINLEY;22180465]It's not really the anime that I dislike, it's the people who watch it that make me hate it[/QUOTE] Well that's just you being petty, now isn't it.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22180417]Well being kicked in the nuts "impacted my judgment" for the duration of the film. So therefor it sucked. Trying to argue the merits of the film based on abstract concepts is useless. This is what I'm trying to tell you, even if you don't "get it", even if you didn't like it, if you can't tell me why you don't like it, and you can't tell me why anyone would like it, there's no point to you saying anything at all, because you obviously have no idea how story telling or film making actually works. And there's especially no grounds for you to disagree with anyone on the subject. It's like if I pulled up some of Leonardo De Vinci's art work and said, This anatomy sucks because I don't like it. I may actually not like the way he draws the human body, but that doesn't mean his depictions of the human form aren't almost impeccably accurate.[/QUOTE] You're still missinterpreting this too much. I said it will impact your enjoyment and can make you less or more critical towards things. That's normal human behaviour. I never implied it is the sole reason you enjoy something the way you do. But it can make something worse or better than you would have actually thought it was in a normal situation. Why are you always saying I don't say why I don't like something? I do. I haven't gone in-depth on any show for why I like or dislike it in this thread because this isn't the kind of thread where you throw out analysises becuase it's a discussion about why anime is good or not, not why X show is good or not. I don't understand your example and how it can be applied to me. If something is technically well done (anatomy is a technical thing) I will always give it praise for that whether I liked the actual show/movie or not. I don't look at movies and shows in one whole picture. Art and animation are picked apart just like music, story, plot, characters and (voice) acting. But the overall experience holds the biggest influence on the final score. But the overall experience is influenced greatly by the quality of all the other elements.

[QUOTE=B1N4RY!;22180462]Blame yourself for that.[/QUOTE] To be honest i probably wouldn't of posted it if you didn't say "glasses are moe" just saying eh, didn't expect facepunch to go ape shit over it though.

[QUOTE=dgg;22179864] People do the same shit with Starwars and Star Trek. Start hating on western movies please. [/QUOTE] when you say western movies I think of Scorsese, Sergio Leone , Francis Ford Coppola, Wes Anderson, Alfred Hitchcock and the Coen brothers. you just try and tell me battleship cutsie pedotits kawaii ^-^ is a better movie than once upon a time in america I fuckin dare you

[QUOTE=Idi Amin;22180891]when you say western movies I think of Scorsese, Sergio Leone , Francis Ford Coppola, Wes Anderson, Alfred Hitchcock and the Coen brothers. you just try and tell me battleship cutsie pedotits kawaii ^-^ is a better movie than once upon a time in america I fuckin dare you[/QUOTE] Once Upon a Time in America is a truly brilliant movie, but you simply cannot compare something like that to anime.

[QUOTE=Idi Amin;22180891]when you say western movies I think of Scorsese, Sergio Leone , Francis Ford Coppola, Wes Anderson, Alfred Hitchcock and the Coen brothers. you just try and tell me battleship cutsie pedotits kawaii ^-^ is a better movie than once upon a time in america I fuckin dare you[/QUOTE] They're equally good. And you're even stereotyping more than most anime haters. Go watch Cowboy Bebop Knockin on Heavens Door or Paprika. Also directly comparing two kind of movies that are of completely different genres and origins is like comparing a RPG game to a FPS game.