[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978074]being a dick would be perfectly justified. not that these people are even beings dicks about they're being completely inoffensive[/QUOTE]
well, these people aren't necessarily being dicks, they're just being a bit on the funky side of progay
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978047]no youre definitely better because one is a homophobic motherfucker and the other one isnt
one actually actively seeks out to hurt people, i hope u understand that[/QUOTE]
I really can't understand what you're even saying but I'll try anyways
just because homophobes seek out verbally abusing homosexuals doesn't make it OK to verbally abuse them back just as badly
and actually, yeah, I am better than people who decide to force other people to think their way
I don't give a shit if someone hates homosexuals, I just want them to actually have to deal with the fact that homosexuals will have rights. They can hate who they want, even if they are wrong.
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978104]well, these people aren't necessarily being dicks, they're just being a bit on the funky side of progay[/QUOTE]
if by funky you mean good then yeah
you said people who "take it to the extreme" are no better
im saying yeah they are because theyre not homophobic motherfuckers
if you think youre better than people "who force other people to think their way" then thats cool but you'll find not a lot will change that way.
[QUOTE=thisispain;41977843]then dont go looking for them. what were you expecting when you clicked on a thread called "Abort The Royal Baby - Radical Feminists". you're full of it[/QUOTE]
Dumb argument. Ignoring their existence doesn't make them disappear.
Why won't you ignore that MRA exists instead of getting worked up over them?
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41977967]im sorry but if no one ever got angry about societal norms then we'd still be holding slaves.[/QUOTE]
Just because something was beneficial in different circumstances it doesn't mean it's positive now.
I mean yeah, compare "not forcing gender on babies" to slavery. Wow.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978110]if by funky you mean good then yeah[/QUOTE]
it seems really stupid and ignorant to try and force words down peoples ears that they have to recognize trans to the point where they can't name their own kids gender or they are bad people
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978123]you said people who "take it to the extreme" are no better
im saying yeah they are because theyre not homophobic motherfuckers
if you think youre better than people "who force other people to think their way" then thats cool but you'll find not a lot will change that way.[/QUOTE]
yeah I am better than them
because people who force others to think their way are assholes. They go beyond trying to reason logically
BTW fun fact, you can still make progress without trying to force people to be progay
Generally Homophobes are humans too, they aren't stupid or anything, just had a different life, if you act as if they are all horrible nazi's that are evil then you're no better then them saying gays are all horrible nazi's that are evil
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41978126]Dumb argument. Ignoring their existence doesn't make them disappear.[/QUOTE]
there was a fucking context to me saying that. he said he didnt want to see them and instead of just not clicking on the thread he was telling "radicals" to just not speak at all
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41978126]Just because something was beneficial in different circumstances it doesn't mean it's positive now.
I mean yeah, compare "not forcing gender on babies" to slavery. Wow.[/QUOTE]
it was a general point about progress, and how it wouldnt occur if everyone was satisfied with the status quo. are you being intentionally dense?
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978128]it seems really stupid and ignorant to try and force words down peoples ears that they have to recognize trans to the point where they can't name their own kids gender or they are bad people[/QUOTE]
i dont know how you can force a word down someone's ear, even metaphorically
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978128]it seems really stupid and ignorant to try and force words down peoples ears that they have to recognize trans to the point where they can't name their own kids gender or they are bad people
yeah I am better than them
because people who force others to think their way are assholes. They go beyond trying to reason logically[/QUOTE]
here's an idea: dont listen
and how is what they're doing any different to what you're doing now? you're both stating your opinion on the matter
[editline]27th August 2013[/editline]
the only difference is that your opinion is real talk straight-up wrong
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978132]there was a fucking context to me saying that. he said he didnt want to see them and instead of just not clicking on the thread he was telling "radicals" to just not speak at all[/QUOTE]
how about I say it more bluntly
[B]Radicals can fuck right off[/B]
it goes above just what they said in the OP picture of course
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978135]i dont know how you can force a word down someone's ear, even metaphorically[/QUOTE]
so are you arguing at all or just complaining about how I word things
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978148]here's an idea: dont listen
and how is what they're doing any different to what you're doing now? you're both stating your opinion on the matter
[editline]27th August 2013[/editline]
the only difference is that your opinion is real talk straight-up wrong[/QUOTE]
and what is wrong about my opinion?
I really don't see whats right about saying they should have not named the gender. Naming the gender is something literally everyone but really heavy hardened trans supporters do.
naming a gender isn't being against trans at all too
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978132]there was a fucking context to me saying that. he said he didnt want to see them and instead of just not clicking on the thread he was telling "radicals" to just not speak at all[/QUOTE]
But he's not talking about those specific radicals but in general is he? And he's doing it in a thread about them. There was no reason for you to say that.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978134]it was a general point about progress, and how it wouldnt occur if everyone was satisfied with the status quo. are you being intentionally dense?[/QUOTE]
You were making it look like getting angry about societal norms is always good. It's not. There are good times to do it and there are wrong times to do it. Getting angry that people call children boys and girls is the latter. Who's being dense here...
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41978197]You were making it look like getting angry about societal norms is always good. It's not. There are good times to do it and there are wrong times to do it. Getting angry that people call children boys and girls is the latter. Who's being dense here...[/QUOTE]
they were making a general point about societal enforcement of gender roles
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978187]so are you arguing at all or just complaining about how I word things[/QUOTE]
Making arguments about how you word things is the way of he "debates" just get used to it.
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978187]I really don't see whats right about saying they should have not named the gender. Naming the gender is something literally everyone but really heavy hardened trans supporters do.
naming a gender isn't being against trans at all too[/QUOTE]
uuh they were making a general point about everyone's obsession with knowing the sex of the baby, they're not calling for a ban on using the words "boy" and "girl"
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978187]so are you arguing at all or just complaining about how I word things
[/QUOTE]
im trying to understand how you're better than people "who decide to force other people to think their way" when youre not doing anything different besides what theyre doing
it seems like an intellectual cop-out not an actual position
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41978213]Making arguments about how you word things is the way of he "debates" just get used to it.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/zing.png[/img][img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/zing.png[/img][img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/zing.png[/img]
lightning fast wit well done
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978209]they were making a general point about societal enforcement of gender roles[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are you even talking about? Calling a baby a boy or girl instead of "it" before it "chooses" (expresses) it's own gender is forcing societal gender roles?
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978236][IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/zing.png[/IMG][IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/zing.png[/IMG][IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/zing.png[/IMG]
lightning fast wit well done[/QUOTE]
Not my fault pain loves to talk about the way people worded themselves and not addressing their points. Stop shitposting.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41978213]Making arguments about how you word things is the way of he "debates" just get used to it.[/QUOTE]
holy shit are you really sore about losing an internet debate
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978229]im trying to understand how you're better than people "who decide to force other people to think their way" when youre not doing anything different besides what theyre doing
it seems like an intellectual cop-out not an actual position[/QUOTE]
because its insanely arrogant to try and force someone to think entirely differently VS actually trying to reason and talk to said person, see why they hate X group and talk to them about it
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978224]uuh they were making a general point about everyone's obsession with knowing the sex of the baby, they're not calling for a ban on using the words "boy" and "girl"[/QUOTE]
they don't want a ban, but the point itself is very stupid how they say its "Insensitive" to name a gender
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41978237]What the fuck are you even talking about? Calling a baby a boy or girl instead of "it" before it "chooses" (expresses) it's own gender is forcing societal gender roles?[/QUOTE]
yes because there an expectation that boys should act like boys, and girls like girls etc.
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978245]because its insanely arrogant to try and force someone to think entirely differently VS actually trying to reason and talk to said person, see why they hate X group and talk to them about it[/QUOTE]
the difference is purely semantics. if they hate a group and you don't want them to hate a group because you think its wrong then why is it arrogant to try and change that.
so far as i know, no-one, not even the joke tweets in the op, suggest changing anything by force. why do you have an arbitrary distinction there?
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978245]they don't want a ban, but the point itself is very stupid how they say its "Insensitive" to name a gender[/QUOTE]
literally no one in the picture in the op said "insensitive" and wasnt joking. the only serious one i can see is the trans woman saying that it's disturbing how much society focuses on the gender and thats fair enough
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978285]the difference is purely semantics. if they hate a group and you don't want them to hate a group because you think its wrong then why is it arrogant to try and change that.
so far as i know, no-one, not even the joke tweets in the op, suggest changing anything by force. why do you have an arbitrary distinction there?[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying don't try and change that
I'm saying don't try and force opinions onto them and be an asshole, I'm saying actually be LOGICAL about it. Do you know what being reasonable is?
I'm describing more than the tweets at this point
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978287]literally no one in the picture in the op said "insensitive" and wasnt joking. the only serious one i can see is the trans woman saying that it's disturbing how much society focuses on the gender and thats fair enough[/QUOTE]
yes but how do we know they are joking or not?
I'm trying to work under the assumption they generally are
I know as a fact there are people that believe very "Out there" shit
did you respond to every single one and confirm they were joking? Someone who says something like that is likely joking, but there are people who actually say unreasonable things that SOUND like they would be jokes but aren't.
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978313]I'm not saying don't hate a group
I'm saying don't try and force opinions onto them
I'm describing more than the tweets at this point
[/QUOTE]
ok then what are you describing?
is protesting going too far? is enacting change at a government level going too far? at what point is it, using your terms, "bigotry" and not "logic"
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978244]holy shit are you really sore about losing an internet debate[/QUOTE]
Apparently you think that if you call out someone on using a vague term or wording themselves improperly while ignoring their actual argument you can win a debate. lol
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978265]yes because there an expectation that boys should act like boys, and girls like girls etc.[/QUOTE]
So instead of opposing the idea of gender roles and expectation that girls should act like girls, etc you are going to attempt to get rid of genders altogether? That's pretty insane.
What the fuck are you going to do if the baby starts defining itself as a he and actually is biologically a male? Is it okay at that point to force gender roles on him? If not, and you're going to oppose those gender roles, why the entire masquerade in the first place?
Also apparently in your head you can't have a baby girl and not force barbies and shit like that on her and teach her that she doesn't have to follow gender roles?
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978229]im trying to understand how you're better than people "who decide to force other people to think their way" when youre not doing anything different besides what theyre doing
it seems like an intellectual cop-out not an actual position[/QUOTE]
Hitler is literally better than me.
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978313]yes but how do we know they are joking or not?
I'm trying to work under the assumption they generally are
I know as a fact there are people that believe very "Out there" shit
did you respond to every single one and confirm they were joking? Someone who says something like that is likely joking, but there are people who actually say unreasonable things that SOUND like they would be jokes but aren't.[/QUOTE]
im sorry but if you dont understand jokes then you probably have a social disorder and i cannot help you. it is BLATANT who is joking and who is not
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978325]ok then what are you describing?
is protesting going too far? is enacting change at a government level going too far? at what point is it, using your terms, "bigotry" and not "logic"[/QUOTE]
when you go beyond the tweets, and all that, forcing would be trying to put a bar on anti gay speech and deeming anything anti gay as hate speech, or downright picking on or insulting people quickly for having a different opinion
it goes to far when people are avoided for having a different opinion.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41978341] So instead of opposing the idea of gender roles and expectation that girls should act like girls, etc you are going to attempt to get rid of genders altogether? That's pretty insane.
What the fuck are you going to do if the baby starts defining itself as a he and actually is biologically a male? Is it okay at that point to force gender roles on him? If not, and you're going to oppose those gender roles, why the entire masquerade in the first place?
Also apparently in your head you can't have a baby girl and not force barbies and shit like that on her and teach her that she doesn't have to follow gender roles?[/QUOTE]
uh no, if you get rid of gender roles then there would be no need to get rid of genders altogether
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978287]literally no one in the picture in the op said "insensitive" and wasnt joking. the only serious one i can see is the trans woman saying that it's disturbing how much society focuses on the gender and thats fair enough[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978285]so far as i know, no-one, not even the joke tweets in the op, suggest changing anything by force. why do you have an arbitrary distinction there?[/QUOTE]
Pretty funny how you deny to accept that people like that exist.
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