[QUOTE=J!NX;41978356]when you go beyond the tweets, and all that, forcing would be trying to put a bar on anti gay speech and deeming anything anti gay as hate speech, or downright picking on or insulting people quickly for having a different opinion
it goes to far when people are avoided for having a different opinion.[/QUOTE]
you mean like exactly what you're doing by saying that these tweets are going too far??
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41978341]Apparently you think that if you call out someone on using a vague term or wording themselves improperly while ignoring their actual argument you can win a debate. lol[/QUOTE]
the only person who even cares is you, nobody else has a problem with it
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41978367]Pretty funny how you deny to accept that people like that exist.[/QUOTE]
did i say that?
itt: *fart noise*
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978356]when you go beyond the tweets, and all that, forcing would be trying to put a bar on anti gay speech and deeming anything anti gay as hate speech, or downright picking on or insulting people quickly for having a different opinion
it goes to far when people are avoided for having a different opinion.[/QUOTE]
you didnt answer my question. is enacting government change forcing your opinion?
because that suppresses anti-gay thoughts a lot more than hate speech codes.
and why do the speech rights of anti-gay people trump the living rights of lgbt people? why should people in the work place have the right to bully gay people at their work?
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978345]im sorry but if you dont understand jokes then you probably have a social disorder and i cannot help you. it is BLATANT who is joking and who is not[/QUOTE]
[url]http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/[/url]
this isn't a joke site, even though it looks like a giant joke, just because someone looks like they are joking, doesn't mean they necessarily are joking
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978368]you mean like exactly what you're doing by saying that these tweets are going too far??[/QUOTE]
you mean going to far by acting as if no one should name babies based on gender?
I mean hey, radicals can say what they want
doesn't mean I'm not allowed to say radicals act dumb
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978394]you didnt answer my question. is enacting government change forcing your opinion?
because that suppresses anti-gay thoughts a lot more than hate speech codes.
and why do the speech rights of anti-gay people trump the living rights of lgbt people? why should people in the work place have the right to bully gay people at their work?[/QUOTE]
literally not what I'm saying at all
I'm extremely progay, stop acting like I'm anti gay
when you deem any anti gay speech hate speech, thats going to far. Simply saying gays shouldn't have marriage rights isn't hate speech. That is the difference between force and reason
and enacting law to allow LGBT isn't forcing anyone to support gays, its just making them have to deal with the fact they are allowed
[QUOTE=Diet Kane;41978391]itt: *fart noise*[/QUOTE]
im gay
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978398]you mean going to far by acting as if no one should name babies based on gender?
I mean hey, radicals can say what they rant
doesn't mean I'm not allowed to say radicals act dumb
[/QUOTE]
NO ONE IS SAYING THAT
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978398]
literally not what I'm saying at all
I'm extremely progay, stop acting like I'm anti gay[/QUOTE]
im just asking questions here *bill o'reilly*
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978398]when you deem any anti gay speech hate speech, thats going to far. Simply saying gays shouldn't have marriage rights isn't hate speech. That is the difference between force and reason[/QUOTE]
but is banning workplace bullying wrong? that's anti-gay speech isnt it?
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978398]and enacting law to allow LGBT isn't forcing anyone to support gays[/QUOTE]
ok youre not anti-gay, but you realise that any anti-gay person would really disagree with that statement.
to anti-gay people, even the slightest support for lgbt people is bad to them.
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978373]the only person who even cares is you, nobody else has a problem with it[/QUOTE]
Oh I'm sorry. I was under the impression that [QUOTE=J!NX;41978187]so are you arguing at all or just complaining about how I word things[/QUOTE]
He was getting irritated by your bullshit too. Nevermind then.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978376]did i say that?[/QUOTE]
You two are constantly saying the tweets are obvious jokes. Like it's not fucking possible that any of them are actually serious. Why? Because it doesn't fit your fantasy world?
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978357]uh no, if you get rid of gender roles then there would be no need to get rid of genders altogether[/QUOTE]
Then why aren't you opposing gender roles instead of opposing calling babies boys/girls. If you get rid of gender roles then there are no expectations towards baby boys/girls and no "forcing societal gender roles".
Gender roles are the problem here, not whether or not people call babies girls/boys. Your end goal might be just, but you make yourself look insane by shit like this. Calling parents bad people because they call their children boys/girls instead of letting them "choose" on their own. I'm sorry but the % of trans people is so small it deems this entire thing stupid. Possibly even hurtful to the children since you're going to confuse the shit out of them. Again the problem lies somewhere else. It lies in not letting the children change their gender once they grasp the concept and not telling them about the possibility.
[QUOTE=thisispain;41978465]im just asking questions here *bill o'reilly*
but is banning workplace bullying wrong? that's anti-gay speech isnt it?
ok youre not anti-gay, but you realise that any anti-gay person would really disagree with that statement.
to anti-gay people, even the slightest support for lgbt people is bad to them.[/QUOTE]
banning actual hate speech is different from banning all anti gay speech, bullying is harassment, that's well above anti gay speech, and above even the topic of gay
I want gay rights across the board 100% recognized
but I don't want to go so far that I ban peaceful protest or someone stating anti gay opinions, that's bullshit.
and I don't act as if people should recognize every baby as possibly transgender
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978430]NO ONE IS SAYING THAT[/QUOTE]
why can't you seriously believe that some of them are likely actually serious? or get the point that I've said multiple times that I'm trying to work under the assumption they all are? I'm also recognizing more than just this, hence, radicals.
if they don't want people to not name a babies gender then why the fuck are they even saying that?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41978489]You two are constantly saying the tweets are obvious jokes. Like it's not fucking possible that any of them are actually serious. Why? Because it doesn't fit your fantasy world?
Then why aren't you opposing gender roles instead of opposing calling babies boys/girls. If you get rid of gender roles then there are no expectations towards baby boys/girls and no "forcing societal gender roles".
Gender roles are the problem here, not whether or not people call babies girls/boys. Your end goal might be just, but you make yourself look insane by shit like this. Calling parents bad people because they call their children boys/girls instead of letting them "choose" on their own. I'm sorry but the % of trans people is so small it deems this entire thing stupid. Possibly even hurtful to the children since you're going to confuse the shit out of them. Again the problem lies somewhere else. It lies in not letting the children change their gender once they grasp the concept and not telling them about the possibility.[/QUOTE]
no they are obvious jokes because you tell by the tone.
i am opposing gender roles. im not saying that calling children boys and girls should be stopped but it does reinforce gender roles. that was all i said on the matter so calm your jets
[editline]27th August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978493]banning actual hate speech is different from banning all anti gay speech, bullying is harassment, that's well above anti gay speech, and above even the topic of gay[/QUOTE]
in what circumstance would anti-gay speech not be hate speech?
anti gay speech pretty much is always hate speech though, it's voicing out to the public that some people should be considered not equal which is not okay
you do realize that it doesn't enforce gender roles if you let the kid change their gender from boy to girl if they just happen to want to? right?
not accepting trans is reinforcing gender roles. Calling a boy a boy like they are isn't doing shit.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978522]no they are obvious jokes because you tell by the tone.
i am opposing gender roles. im not saying that calling children boys and girls should be stopped but it does reinforce gender roles. that was all i said on the matter so calm your jets
[editline]27th August 2013[/editline]
in what circumstance would anti-gay speech not be hate speech?[/QUOTE]
how the hell is saying that you believe gays should simply not have marriage rights hate speech?
Hate speech starts the moment you get very enforcing and extreme about what you say. Using offensive words, etc. Simply being against gay marriage isn't hate speech
i mean yeah, most anti gay speech is hate speech, but we have to realize that people grew up that way and that people have religious reasons that aren't purely about burning / hating on them, they just "Feel that to be natural".
That doesn't make them right, they're still wrong, but not letting people state opinions just because you think they are wrong is stupid.
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978493]banning actual hate speech is different from banning all anti gay speech, bullying is harassment, that's well above anti gay speech, and above even the topic of gay
I want gay rights across the board 100% recognized
but I don't want to go so far that I ban peaceful protest or someone stating anti gay opinions[/QUOTE]
ok i can respect that position but i feel like that is in itself a radical position and imo its more productive to join forces as a politically strong movement than a splintered in-fighting group you know what i mean
like i think its counterproductive and it deprecates the movement itself, lgbt rights in the united states are certainly a minority position
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978542]you do realize that it doesn't enforce gender roles if you let the kid change their gender from boy to girl if they just happen to want to? right?
not accepting trans is reinforcing gender roles. Calling a boy a boy like they are isn't doing shit.
how the hell is saying that you believe gays should simply not have marriage rights hate speech?
Hate speech starts the moment you get very enforcing and extreme about what you say. Using offensive words, etc. Simply being against gay marriage isn't hate speech[/QUOTE]
because marriage is not solely a christian or indeed a deist belief, x people should not be able to say whether or not someone can have a legal relationship that has many legal benefits like insurance. it's not okay in the slightest
i wouldn't give a fuck about homosexual marriage not being allowed in christian churches if it didn't have legal ties. it would still be stupid though
its called
"Freedom of speech"
there's a difference between WBC/electroshock therapy style and simply stating you feel that gays do not belong with marriage rights
either way you're wrong
but only one way is truly actually hate speech
I'm talking about simply stating it, of course, not making this huge anti gay speech
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978542]you do realize that it doesn't enforce gender roles if you let the kid change their gender from boy to girl if they just happen to want to? right?
not accepting trans is reinforcing gender roles. Calling a boy a boy like they are isn't doing shit.[/QUOTE]
no i dont realise that because its totally incorrect. as soon as you attribute a gender to a person then you forcing gender roles on them, whether they are comfortable with those gender roles or not.
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978595]its called
"Freedom of speech"
there's a difference between WBC style and simply stating you feel that gays do not belong with marriage rights
either way you're wrong
but only one way is truly actually hate speech[/QUOTE]
did you really read what i just said lol
saying a group of people that don't choose what orientation they are born as shouldn't be allowed to have large legal benefits like the ones in a marriage is outright hateful garbage and belongs nowhere
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978522]no they are obvious jokes because you tell by the tone.[/QUOTE]
That's beside the point whether or not those specific statements are a joke, that wasn't my point. We were talking about whether or not you accept existence of people who would say something like that seriously.
You offhand assume that they are jokes because it doesn't fit your world model.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978522]i am opposing gender roles. im not saying that calling children boys and girls should be stopped but it does reinforce gender roles. that was all i said on the matter so calm your jets[/QUOTE]
The entire notion of not calling babies boys/girls is stupid and unjustified.
Simply calling babies boys/girls doesn't reinforce gender roles at all. Having expectations towards them does.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978598]no i dont realise that because its totally incorrect.[B] as soon as you attribute a gender to a person then you forcing gender roles on them[/B], whether they are comfortable with those gender roles or not.[/QUOTE]
No you don't.
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978493]why can't you seriously believe that some of them are likely actually serious? or get the point that I've said multiple times that I'm trying to work under the assumption they all are? I'm also recognizing more than just this, hence, radicals.
if they don't want people to not name a babies gender then why the fuck are they even saying that?[/QUOTE]
im sorry but if you are going work under the assumption that all jokes are to be taken literally because you dont have written proof that they are jokes then you are beyond help, that is absolutely mental
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978627]im sorry but if you are going work under the assumption that all jokes are to be taken literally because you dont have written proof that they are jokes then you are beyond help, that is absolutely mental[/QUOTE]
im sorry but if you are going work under the assumption that all retarded statements made by someone who calls themselves a feminist are to be taken as jokes because you dont have written proof that they are serious then you are beyond help, that is absolutely mental
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41978609]That's beside the point whether or not those specific statements are a joke, that wasn't my point. We were talking about whether or not you accept existence of people who would say something like that seriously.
You offhand assume that they are jokes because it doesn't fit your world model.
The entire notion of not calling babies boys/girls is stupid and unjustified.
Simply calling babies boys/girls doesn't reinforce gender roles at all. Having expectations towards them does.[/QUOTE]
no im sure there are people who would say stupid shit like ban the words boy and girl, but these people are not doing that. my world model has allowed me to accept the fact that you are saying something i disagree with, so why would i not do the same with them if i thought there was something to disagree with??
and the words are inherently weighted with expectation dont be so naive
[quote]all retarded statements made by someone who calls themselves a feminist [/quote]
lmfao
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41978642]im sorry but if you are going work under the assumption that all retarded statements made by someone who calls themselves a feminist are to be taken as jokes because you dont have written proof that they are serious then you are beyond help, that is absolutely mental[/QUOTE]
im not doing that at all, there are certainly people out there who call themselves feminists and spout dumb shit. if i thought these people were serious i would just disagree with them.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978598]no i dont realise that because its totally incorrect. as soon as you attribute a gender to a person then you forcing gender roles on them, whether they are comfortable with those gender roles or not.[/QUOTE]
once they change their gender identity it doesn't really matter that much. They are now a male to female.
Why can't people just simply call it a boy when it actually is a boy? so long as they recognize that later they can change it what is wrong?
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978627]im sorry but if you are going work under the assumption that all jokes are to be taken literally because you dont have written proof that they are jokes then you are beyond help, that is absolutely mental[/QUOTE]
I've said multiple times that, as with OTHER opinions than this, with VERY radical statements, there are thousands of people who are very much serious when they say something that otherwise sounds like a joke. so why can't I say most may or may not be jokes?
and I've never said they should be taken literally unless they have proof, Jesus Christ, is that all you're going to argue about now? Wether or not they were jokes?
also, you just basically agreed with them, and also claim they are all jokes
do you agree with them or not?
feminism means a lot of things and varies from person to person. you don't decide what they are silly sil, soz
if the main focus is gender and sex equality then it is feminism, and from what i can see that's what he's all for
[QUOTE=J!NX;41978663]once they change their gender identity it doesn't really matter that much. They are now a male to female.
Why can't people just simply call it a boy when it actually is a boy? so long as they recognize that later they can change it what is wrong?[/QUOTE]
they can. call them what you like, but to say it does not force gender roles upon the child is naive.
little things like names effect what gender roles you follow throughout life, things that are hard to just abandon. even myself would like to change my name to a more gender neutral one but that's just impossible because of the social connections i have established throughout my life of not being able to come to terms (read: being scared) with dysphoria
they absolutely do enforce gender roles, and that's just fact. whether or not you think that's a bad thing is all up to you
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41978673]they can. call them what you like, but to say it does not force gender roles upon the child is naive.[/QUOTE]
it forces the gender role, until they're old enough to actually understand and grow out of it
it'll only truly force the gender role when you don't let them be what gender they want to be something else. And try and force them to do girl or boy "Jobs" or fit to the stereotype.
that being said, if you want to do that with your own kids, obviously that's extremely good, but, I don't think its OK to get angry at others when they don't do it. You can only really call a boy a boy, or a them, not a boy a girl and try and force them to be the opposite gender, but no one really does that unless they're like, crazy or something.
I personally am a huge fan of uni-sexual names, too. But I wouldn't go so far as to say "it" or "They"
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