[QUOTE=simkas;40206733]The fuck are you talking about, they weren't christians, Comstock was pretty much their god and they treated other historical figures almost like gods too, that directly contradicts christianity.[/QUOTE]
Yes, the bugfuck insane religion of Columbia has about as much in common with Christianity as, say, Scientology. It was Comstock's personal cult of "MURRIKA IS THE CHOSEN POIPLES" with some Biblical rhetoric and references.
I think infinite was one of the best games I've played in the last couple of years but these are all fair criticisms, imo. I see why they didn't fill out many of the characters except for Elizabeth, but it still would've been nice to have something with a bit more depth.
[QUOTE=FPSMango;40206960]Obviously they didn't ever directly reference christianity because that would create a media shitstorm, but if you look at the biblical references all over the place, everyone must be baptized to enter Columbia, Comstock becoming a prophet after being baptized, the announcer in the launchpod proclaiming "Hallelujah" which translates to "Praise ye Jehovah", the acolytes saying "heaven my friend, or as close you'll get until judgment day", the priest saying "I baptize you in the name of our prophet, in the name of our founders and in the name of our lord"(who can the lord be except god if Comstock and the fathers are not "the lord") and Brooker being the "false shepherd", which contrasts Jesus often being called "the good shepherd" in real life Christianity.
Yea totally nothing to do with Christianity here!
Also I must remind you this is not the first time the abrahamic religions has been "hijacked" by a prophet, replace Comstock with Jesus and you've got pretty much the same story(a person thinking he is the prophet replacing god as the main figure in the religion)
Anyway if we for the sake of argument say the religion in Colombia isn't a defaced Christianity, it still inherits every trait of oldstyle american Christianity so there's no reason it shouldn't also inherit the hatred for witchcraft.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying it's not christianity, but it still has to follow christianity? Even if it's similar, a lot of things are still different, so you can't cay something doesn't make sense simply because it wouldn't be allowed in a different religion. It's not christianity and that's all that matters. Even if it's similar, that doesn't mean it has to follow the same principles.
[QUOTE=FPSMango;40206960]Obviously they didn't ever directly reference christianity because that would create a media shitstorm, but if you look at the biblical references all over the place, everyone must be baptized to enter Columbia, Comstock becoming a prophet after being baptized, the announcer in the launchpod proclaiming "Hallelujah" which translates to "Praise ye Jehovah", the acolytes saying "heaven my friend, or as close you'll get until judgment day", the priest saying "I baptize you in the name of our prophet, in the name of our founders and in the name of our lord"(who can the lord be except god if Comstock and the fathers are not "the lord") and Brooker being the "false shepherd", which contrasts Jesus often being called "the good shepherd" in real life Christianity.
Yea totally nothing to do with Christianity here!
Also I must remind you this is not the first time the abrahamic religions has been "hijacked" by a prophet, replace Comstock with Jesus and you've got pretty much the same story(a person thinking he is the prophet replacing god as the main figure in the religion)
Anyway if we for the sake of argument say the religion in Colombia isn't a defaced Christianity, it still inherits every trait of oldstyle american Christianity so there's no reason it shouldn't also inherit the hatred for witchcraft.[/QUOTE]
Obviously, this "Comstock-ism" must have begun as just another cult of 'hijacked Christianity' as you put it, but it all deviates so far from just about every Christian ideal that it is hardly the same thing anymore. In fact, pretty much every Biblical reference in the game points to the Old Testament. It seems Comstock just took the old testament, replaced the Jewish people with America as God's chosen, and Jesus with himself, and shit only went crazier form that point on.
[QUOTE=simkas;40207083]So you're saying it's not christianity, but it still has to follow christianity? Even if it's similar, a lot of things are still different, so you can't cay something doesn't make sense simply because it wouldn't be allowed in a different religion. It's not christianity and that's all that matters. Even if it's similar, that doesn't mean it has to follow the same principles.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying you would have to be a pretty naive if you can't see that the religion in Bioshock is Christianity with the main symbolism removed to avoid a media backlash. It's not just similar, it is based in it's entirety on Christianity.
[QUOTE=FPSMango;40207170]I'm saying you would have to be a pretty naive if you can't see that the religion in Bioshock is Christianity with the main symbolism removed to avoid a media backlash. It's not just similar, it is based in it's entirety on Christianity.[/QUOTE]
No, if it's different, it's different, just because it's similar doesn't make it the same. In fact, a lot of things are very different. A lot of it is based around Comstock looking into different universes and finding a bunch of technology and stuff that he wanted to use himself, so he brought into his world and gave them to everyone, how the hell does that tie into christianity?
[QUOTE=mixshifter;40204556]And I still don't understand all the hate on Bioshock 2.[/QUOTE]
The story and characters simply weren't as interesting. Plus we'd already been to Rapture, so it didn't have that feel you got when you explored for the first time.
Gameplay was significantly improved though.
[QUOTE=simkas;40207189]No, if it's different, it's different, just because it's similar doesn't make it the same. In fact, a lot of things are very different. A lot of it is based around Comstock looking into different universes and finding a bunch of technology and stuff that he wanted to use himself, so he brought into his world and gave them to everyone, how the hell does that tie into christianity?[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between the closed circle around Comstock and the religion the citizens of Columbia was exposed to. Obviously the acolytes and priests didn't know Comstock had the tech to jump into different dimensions and I was specifically talking about the belief of the citizens, not Comstock and the people working towards creating and using Elizabeth to destroy the world. So yes obviously Comstock himself had a worldview that went far from normal Christianity, but the citizens lived after values that are unique to Christianity.
To say their faith isn't very much based on Christianity is a pretty fucking naive thing to say. The whole fucking game [I]stinks[/I] of it. As I understand Comstock wanted to omit any direct mention of Christianity because he wanted to poach Christians by appealing to their religiosity before covertly replacing himself as the object of worship. But to say that it's not almost entirely based on Christian ideology is just plain silly.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;40207294]To say their faith isn't very much based on Christianity is a pretty fucking naive thing to say. The whole fucking game [I]stinks[/I] of it. As I understand Comstock wanted to omit any direct mention of Christianity because he wanted to poach Christians by appealing to their religiosity before covertly replacing himself as the object of worship. But to say that it's not almost entirely based on Christian ideology is just plain silly.[/QUOTE]
That's what i think too. His religion was made to appeal to the Christian people of America, but ultimately it was a cult centered around him and only him.
[QUOTE=simkas;40207189]No, if it's different, it's different, just because it's similar doesn't make it the same. In fact, a lot of things are very different. A lot of it is based around Comstock looking into different universes and finding a bunch of technology and stuff that he wanted to use himself, so he brought into his world and gave them to everyone, how the hell does that tie into christianity?[/QUOTE]
Also I think we have a slighly different view on what "Christian" is, I say that Comstock's religion is Christianity because it's basically a Christian cult, and just as I define real life Christian cults with a new prophet as still "Christian", I also define the religion in BS:I as Christianity for that reason.
My biggest complaint about the game is how underexploited the songbird is. The game is overhyping the motherfucker through the entire game with songbird plushies everywhere, kids singing about him, posters, statues, etc, and you see him for real a total of, what, four times ?
The whole [sp]"you can't beat him in a 1v1 fight thus you get no boss fight"[/sp] excuse felt lazy and out of place, not to mention the [sp]absolutely terrible aircraft defense sequence[/sp] which was such a massive disappointment.
There was so much they could have done with the songbird. Every time I wander around the levels and see how big some fighting areas and how much vertical cover there is I keep thinking this looks like they wanted to include the songbird as a recurrent enemy/miniboss that you have to either flee or damage enough to make him fly off, but they somehow scrapped it off.
In fact the songbird is pretty much a living example of what you should not do with your marketing material. If you hype people up for something as big and well design as the songbird you better use it well. Imagine if Steam had marketed Half Life 2 by showing Dog absolutely everywhere, like he's some sort of dynamic ally that follows you and is a central plot point and all, but eventually it only shows up half-way through the game, then disappears only to come back in one cool scripted scene at the end. Hell, that's pretty much exactly what happened when they showed the Hydra in that e3 demo and they eventually had to cut it away because they figured it didn't fit the game at all and people were pretty disappointed if not pissed by this.
Long story short Songbird deserved more than this. The lack of a strong enemy figure like the big daddy is truly the one thing that makes this game inferior to the previous ones for me (which is really just a tiny nitpick because the game is still so god damn stellar).
[QUOTE=mixshifter;40204556]And I still don't understand all the hate on Bioshock 2.[/QUOTE]
It felt more like the dev saying, "okay we have a good game here now how do we make more money off of it," than it did a solid sequal to bioshock.
[QUOTE=ravenhurst;40207678]It felt more like the dev saying, "okay we have a good game here now how do we make more money off of it," than it did a solid sequal to bioshock.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't made by the same devs at Irrational, it was made by 2K itself.
They essentially took the exact same frame and made it more action-y, which I am very fine with. It just added diversity to a flawless series, the first one being more based on the atmosphere and story, the second one more based on action. Both still play wonderfully and have their own pros and cons.
[QUOTE=ravenhurst;40207678]It felt more like the dev saying, "okay we have a good game here now how do we make more money off of it," than it did a solid sequal to bioshock.[/QUOTE]the minervas den DLC is probably better than both bioshock 1 & 2
The only things I'd agree with is missing some of the neutral exploration stuff shown in earlier gameplay where you could just walk around angry Vox Populi mobs instead of simply shooting everything and the abrupt change from troubled paradise to revolutionary hell.
Just about everything else I completely disagree with, especially the "sluggish combat".
first half with less fighting >>>>> second half
first few chapters were the best in the entire game
[QUOTE=Corporal Yippie;40208168]first half with less fighting >>>>> second half
first few chapters were the best in the entire game[/QUOTE]
Besides the very last chapter, I can agree.
[QUOTE=mixshifter;40204556]And I still don't understand all the hate on Bioshock 2.[/QUOTE]
I think it was a freaking masterpiece. Very engaging plot, also as reflective as infinite was. For me, even more actually. I'm talking about being really in relation to the main character, and having real feelings towards the characters. Bioshock 2 beat Infinite in those things for me, to be honest.
[QUOTE=mixshifter;40208707]Besides the very last chapter, I can agree.[/QUOTE]
I thought Comstock House was pretty great as well.
To be honest, the only (relatively) dull portion of the game for me was the part with [sp]Lady Comstock[/sp] and that's only because it felt kind of like a fetch quest.
I definitely think Elizabeth's potential to assist in fights could have been better, but I disagree with much of what he said.
The choices that alternate endings of the first two games were what are generally criticized. I like how the few choices you made didn't affect the overall story but changed the game here and there like having a hand wound or not. And there probably could have been more of them.
But I think right at the beginning when you meet the Letuces and you specifically don't have the option to choose heads or tails I Irrational's way of saying fuck role playing, alternate endings and bull shit we are going to tell an amazing story. And this idea of what you do not mattering as it will all play out the same is completely metaphoric through the same with the Letuces and their comments of Lives, Lived, Will Live; He Doesn't Row; etc.
Also who needs shield gear, the Storm hat is the most broken part of the game.
[QUOTE=mixshifter;40204556]And I still don't understand all the hate on Bioshock 2.[/QUOTE]
I never got around to playing it because I got tired of fucking with GFWL and by the time I finally had fixed it I was too burned out to play it.
[QUOTE=mixshifter;40205249]Lol, but Bioshock 2 came out like 3 years after Bioshock 1.[/QUOTE]
But it wasn't a sequel that was needed, like even the studio recognizes it as "oh it's just that game we kinda put out to satisfy people's cravings we never even wanted bioshock 2"
[QUOTE=mixshifter;40204556]And I still don't understand all the hate on Bioshock 2.[/QUOTE]
Bioshock 2 was my favourite.
Please don't kill me.
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