Sharia law and you: Is it bad? - General

I don't think the government should support any religion. Religion should be personal and follow the laws of the country it is practised in.

[QUOTE=Nawl;36633387]I don't think the government should support any religion. Religion should be personal and follow the laws of the country it is practised in.[/QUOTE] They'll just end up shaping the country's laws to suit their agenda. Much like America is now.

[QUOTE=sonerin;36630554]The aim of Sharia is to spread and fight non-believers untill they convert into Islam. There's no way of studying this in a private context, this isn't Sharia. You're supposed to fight non-believers untill they become Muslims, Islam forces itself on everyone. You guys should get over the fact that Islam is nothing like a peaceful friendship religion. It's a hate cult.[/QUOTE] This is honestly debateable. One of the tenets of Islamic rule is not to compel people to convert. You compel Christians and Jews to pay Jizya, a tax, but true conversion is supposed to be an honest thing. However, the Qu'ran speaks heavily about the Jihad between believers and non-believers, sometimes violent, often times not. There is a supposed inherent struggle between Muslims and everyone else.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36645016]This is honestly debateable. One of the tenets of Islamic rule is not to compel people to convert. You compel Christians and Jews to pay Jizya, a tax, but true conversion is supposed to be an honest thing. However, the Qu'ran speaks heavily about the Jihad between believers and non-believers, sometimes violent, often times not. There is a supposed inherent struggle between Muslims and everyone else.[/QUOTE] Welcome to the concept of religion. Contradictions everywhere yet people continue taking religions seriously.

Law in itself is horrible enough; law informed by [I]faith[/I] can only be a disaster.

[QUOTE=sonerin;36633205]Islam orders Muslims to discriminate and murder non-believers. This is enough for us to consider Islam to be a hate cult. Read the verses I posted above. [/QUOTE] Seriously do some research and look into both sides of the coin before making hate calls. [quote] "Qur'an 9:5: And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." [/quote] just had to google quran 9:5 and came across this [quote] we can now investigate verse (9:5)One of the main concerns of Chapter (Surah) 9 of the Quran (a Surah is a collection of verses) was to delineate the strategies for dealing with the polytheists of the Arabian Peninsula after the Muslims.... Since the polytheists differed in their relationship with the new religion after its victory, there was a need to differentiate between the malevolent enemies of Islam bent on destroying the Muslims and who did not observe their treaties with the Muslims, those who hated Islam but were willing to honor their treaties with Muslims, those who rejected Islam but peacefully co-existed with the Muslim community, etc.[B] The aforementioned verse (9:5) was concerned with the most vehement opponents of the Islamic faith not by virtue of their refusal to be Muslims but by continually breaching their treaties with the Muslims and fighting them.[/B] Given that, their treatment is not equal, the complete verse says, "So when the sacred months have passed away, then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and keep them under observation, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely God is Forgiving, Merciful." Meaning: so when the grace period (4 months) is past, and if the other party insists on fighting Islam, then a state of war is inevitable. The struggle may take the form of killing, or capture and imprisonment, or just keeping an eye on these enemies to fend off their evil if they decide to launch an offensive against Muslims. The punishment should be fair and just and, thus, must be proportional to the crimes actually committed. Not only this, but the pagans can repent and accept Islam, as evident from the last part of (9:5), or desist from attacking Muslims and ask for protection, as evident from the next verse (9:6), "If one amongst the pagans ask you for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure." [B]Understanding the verses' historical context is crucial, not to confine them to their context, but for a proper comprehension of their implications[/B]. Moreover, as shown previously, the verse must be interpreted along with all the other verses explicating [B]how a Muslim should deal with others, Muslim or non-Muslim, including verse (8:61), "And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in God; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing."[/B] [/quote] [url]http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/kill_the_infidels.asp[/url] [quote]his [B]verse once again refers to those pagans who would continue to fight after the period of peace.[/B] It clearly commands the Muslims to protect those who seek peace and are non-combatants. It is a specific verse with a specific ruling and can in no way be applied to general situations. The command of the verse was only to be applied in the event of a battle. As Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes: The emphasis is on the first clause: it is only when the four months of grace are past, and the other party show no sign of desisting from their treacherous design by right conduct, that the state of war supervenes - between Faith and Unfaith. (Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur’an, Text, Translation and Commentary, emphasis added) If the pagans would not cease their hostilities towards the Muslims, then they were to be fought, especially since they were living in the land of an Islamic state. Dr. Zakir Naik writes concerning this verse: [B]This verse is quoted during a battle. ...We know that America was once at war with Vietnam. Suppose the President of America or the General of the American Army told the American soldiers during the war: “Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill them”. Today if I say that the American President said, “Wherever you find Vietnamese, kill them” without giving the context, I will make him sound like a butcher. But if I quote him in context, that he said it during a war, it will sound very logical, as he was trying to boost the morale of the American soldiers during the war. ...Similarly in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 the Qur’an says, “Kill the Mushriqs (pagans) where ever you find them”, during a battle to boost the morale of the Muslim soldiers. What the Qur’an is telling Muslim soldiers is, don’t be afraid during battle; wherever you find the enemies kill them. Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the allegation that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed.[/B] It says: “If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge.” [Al-Qur’an 9:6] [/quote] [url]http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/quran_95_commentary/[/url] The same probably applies for the other verses that you quoted, cant be bothered looking them up on google. There are verses of peace and verses of sword in Islam, you can quote only one and show its a pacifist religion or quote others and show its a nazi religion. Attack and defense is natural part of a system. So is a quest for domination to maintain status quo of being No. 1. Whether its done aggressively by conquests or less by opening military bases in over half of the world / political assassinations / destabilization / economic sanctions is just a matter of perspective and which side your on. [img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_NE-72ZXux-g/TF7ZERB07lI/AAAAAAAAOqE/Gz4aWvk7Y_0/s1600/US-Military-Bases-Worldwide.jpg[/img] [editline]7th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;36645016]This is honestly debateable. One of the tenets of Islamic rule is not to compel people to convert. You compel Christians and Jews to pay Jizya, a tax, but true conversion is supposed to be an honest thing. However, the Qu'ran speaks heavily about the Jihad between believers and non-believers, sometimes violent, often times not. There is a supposed inherent struggle between Muslims and everyone else.[/QUOTE] Paying Jizya =/= converting to Islam. There is alot more to Jizya, something like non-Muslims are not entitled to military service or get protection from the state or alternative to zakah, who knows. I dont know what your getting at. But yeah, its true the system is geared so that there is more exposure about the teachings of Islam to the non-muslims residing within their lands but the choice of conversion is not forced. With anyone outside the borders, its a matter of either conquest or peace depending on the attitude.

[QUOTE=C47;36658918] Paying Jizya =/= converting to Islam. There is alot more to Jizya, something like non-Muslims are not entitled to military service or get protection from the state or alternative to zakah, who knows. I dont know what your getting at. But yeah, its true the system is geared so that there is more exposure about the teachings of Islam to the non-muslims residing within their lands but the choice of conversion is not forced. With anyone outside the borders, its a matter of either conquest or peace depending on the attitude.[/QUOTE] That's what I'm saying. Islam is pretty clear that conversion is necessary, but that it should be done earnestly, not through compulsion or coercion. One of the things that made Al-Andalus fairly tolerant during the middle ages(while the christian world closed down) was because of Jizya, offering christians and jews a sort of "protected class" in exchange for a submission, through Jizya, to the muslim rulers. In this day and age, however, I would not support the Jizya. People should not be forced into paying a tax based solely on their religious beliefs. A muslim, christian, and jew should all be equally protected and have equal responsibilities under law.

[QUOTE=C47;36658918] The same probably applies for the other verses that you quoted, cant be bothered looking them up on google. There are verses of peace and verses of sword in Islam, you can quote only one and show its a pacifist religion or quote others and show its a nazi religion. [/QUOTE] There is no middle. You are either evil and discriminative or good and peaceful. Ordering Muslims to kill non-muslims is enough for us to consider Islam to be a hate cult. Just because they throw in a few "peaceful" verses isn't enough for Islam to appear peaceful. If it has just peaceful verses in it, it's peaceful. If it has peaceful and evil verses in it, it's evil. There's no middle, this isn't a kiddy game you can choose a side in. And don't pull the "it was because of the war" card. They are clearly ordered to kill anyone who doesn't convert into Islam, what does war has to do with this? Nothing. If they are to forgive the ones who convert and kill the ones who don't convert, they are clearly discrminating. They shouldn't discriminate non-believer enemies and believer enemies. tldr islam is a hate cult and this is the simple truth.

[QUOTE=sonerin;36661529]There is no middle. You are either evil and discriminative or good and peaceful. Ordering Muslims to kill non-muslims is enough for us to consider Islam to be a hate cult. Just because they throw in a few "peaceful" verses isn't enough for Islam to appear peaceful. If it has just peaceful verses in it, it's peaceful. If it has peaceful and evil verses in it, it's evil. There's no middle, this isn't a kiddy game you can choose a side in. And don't pull the "it was because of the war" card. They are clearly ordered to kill anyone who doesn't convert into Islam, what does war has to do with this? Nothing. If they are to forgive the ones who convert and kill the ones who don't convert, they are clearly discrminating. They shouldn't discriminate non-believer enemies and believer enemies. tldr islam is a hate cult and this is the simple truth.[/QUOTE] So I guess the USA is evil too huh? Infact every country with an army is evil according to your primitive way of thinking. Well its a pity how you choose to see and perceive things. Im not pulling any cards, but looking at things from a broader perspective. Whatever delusion you choose to live in, the fact of the matter is that they were context'd for war (because i assume the scholars who spend their lives studying the religion know more about some guy who read off something on anti-islamic sites) and if applicable for everyday scenario then there would be a very apparent conflict with the peaceful verses like how it was mentioned above.

[QUOTE=sonerin;36661529]There is no middle. You are either evil and discriminative or good and peaceful. Ordering Muslims to kill non-muslims is enough for us to consider Islam to be a hate cult. Just because they throw in a few "peaceful" verses isn't enough for Islam to appear peaceful. If it has just peaceful verses in it, it's peaceful. If it has peaceful and evil verses in it, it's evil. There's no middle, this isn't a kiddy game you can choose a side in. And don't pull the "it was because of the war" card. They are clearly ordered to kill anyone who doesn't convert into Islam, what does war has to do with this? Nothing. If they are to forgive the ones who convert and kill the ones who don't convert, they are clearly discrminating. They shouldn't discriminate non-believer enemies and believer enemies. tldr islam is a hate cult and this is the simple truth.[/QUOTE] From these points, No one in the West is much better. Did you ever read the contents of the bible? Nearly half of it is geared towards killing sinners or otherwise violently punishing them. By your logic, the Hippy Dippy new testament doesn't help that one bit.

[QUOTE=C47;36671494]So I guess the USA is evil too huh? Infact every country with an army is evil according to your primitive way of thinking. Well its a pity how you choose to see and perceive things. Im not pulling any cards, but looking at things from a broader perspective. Whatever delusion you choose to live in, the fact of the matter is that they were context'd for war (because i assume the scholars who spend their lives studying the religion know more about some guy who read off something on anti-islamic sites) and if applicable for everyday scenario then there would be a very apparent conflict with the peaceful verses like how it was mentioned above.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Bomimo;36672943]From these points, No one in the West is much better. Did you ever read the contents of the bible? Nearly half of it is geared towards killing sinners or otherwise violently punishing them. By your logic, the Hippy Dippy new testament doesn't help that one bit.[/QUOTE] So according to your logics, just because someone else is violent doesn't make it okay for you to be violent too. You don't have to be a dumb cunt because Christians are dumb cunts (I'm not implying they are, but let's assume so). Islam is violent and you guys accepted this fact just now by posting those words. Great. But you are now trying to justify Islam's violent actions because Christianity contains violence, which made me lose my respect for the both of you. Good job.

having control F both pages and found no one has said ANYTHING about sayyid qut'b, not surprised this thread hasn't gone anyway. sharia law is not bad. heard it here folks. i won't go into detail about qut'b's life, you can google that, but while he was in jail he was treated badly, and the anger and whatnot influenced his writings. these subsequent books were no biggie, but the people who read them and percieved that qut'b was portraying the message of DEATH TO THE WEST (spoiler: he wasn't). the main person was the mentor of osama bin laden. tl;dr, everything is taken out of context, PROPER sharia law is not bad.

[QUOTE=Pelican;36673199]having control F both pages and found no one has said ANYTHING about sayyid qut'b, not surprised this thread hasn't gone anyway. sharia law is not bad. heard it here folks. i won't go into detail about qut'b's life, you can google that, but while he was in jail he was treated badly, and the anger and whatnot influenced his writings. these subsequent books were no biggie, but the people who read them and percieved that qut'b was portraying the message of DEATH TO THE WEST (spoiler: he wasn't). the main person was the mentor of osama bin laden. tl;dr, everything is taken out of context, PROPER sharia law is not bad.[/QUOTE] Qur'an says: "Kill non-muslims if they don't convert."

[QUOTE=sonerin;36673165]So according to your logics, just because someone else is violent doesn't make it okay for you to be violent too. You don't have to be a dumb cunt because Christians are dumb cunts (I'm not implying they are, but let's assume so). Islam is violent and you guys accepted this fact just now by posting those words. Great. But you are now trying to justify Islam's violent actions because Christianity contains violence, which made me lose my respect for the both of you. Good job.[/QUOTE] I'm not justifying Christian violence. Christians are just as bad, christianity is just as badshit insane. Why remove one evil and keep the other? I want stupidity and extremism banned. I don't fuck a give about your respect. You're obviously delusional. You don't see evil when you're surrounded by it, just when it's further removed. That's retarded. Scriptual abuse is one thing. But both texts are written as an orgie for violence. By your own words, that should make both equally bad. Make up your pissy mind kid... IF you're going to generalize as much as wanting all of islam gone, then why the fuck not christianity as well? You talk about logic, but it's illogical to only apply it half of the time. What's even worse is that you're still talking about minorities. Both scriptures encourage war, yet people find peace in both. You're talking from the nation with the most posted troops in the most countries ever. Come on! What? Did the crusades suddenly not happen? [editline]8th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=sonerin;36673277]Qur'an says: "Kill non-muslims if they don't convert."[/QUOTE] Bible says the same. Get lost.

[QUOTE=sonerin;36673277]Qur'an says: "Kill non-muslims if they don't convert."[/QUOTE] i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt an assume you're AWFULLY ignorant. holy books aren't literal. ever heard of the bible? the christian bible? you know the one? yeah, gays can't have sex, women are slaves, you aren't allowed to wear hats. need I go on? oh, and the bible says that people who aren't christian go to hell and suffer in torment for eternity, i think that trumps a simple death try again

[QUOTE=Pelican;36673802]i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt an assume you're AWFULLY ignorant. holy books aren't literal. ever heard of the bible? the christian bible? you know the one? yeah, gays can't have sex, women are slaves, you aren't allowed to wear hats. need I go on? oh, and the bible says that people who aren't christian go to hell and suffer in torment for eternity, i think that trumps a simple death try again[/QUOTE] Islam is based on Qur'an, dimwit. And if it says you are to kill non-muslims if you're a Muslim, then it means you are to kill non-muslims. There are no secret meanings to this. They are literal orders. Stop being in denial. [QUOTE=Bomimo;36673672]I'm not justifying Christian violence. Christians are just as bad, christianity is just as badshit insane. Why remove one evil and keep the other? I want stupidity and extremism banned. I don't fuck a give about your respect. You're obviously delusional. You don't see evil when you're surrounded by it, just when it's further removed. That's retarded. Scriptual abuse is one thing. But both texts are written as an orgie for violence. By your own words, that should make both equally bad. Make up your pissy mind kid... IF you're going to generalize as much as wanting all of islam gone, then why the fuck not christianity as well? You talk about logic, but it's illogical to only apply it half of the time. What's even worse is that you're still talking about minorities. Both scriptures encourage war, yet people find peace in both. You're talking from the nation with the most posted troops in the most countries ever. Come on! What? Did the crusades suddenly not happen? [editline]8th July 2012[/editline] Bible says the same. Get lost.[/QUOTE] Like I said, just because Christians are violent doesn't mean we should ignore Islam's violence. Stop using the "Hurr durr but Christians are violent too, let's not give a fuck about Islam." card over and over again.

[QUOTE=sonerin;36674011]Islam is based on Qur'an, dimwit. Like I said, just because Christians are violent doesn't mean we should ignore Islam's violence. Stop using the "Hurr durr but Christians are violent too, let's not give a fuck about Islam." card over and over again.[/QUOTE] I'm not, you fucking simpleton. I'm saying let's fuck a give about both instead you fucking hypocrite! You should really back out, because you're obviously yelling more than you're reading. Your arguments are assumptions and ignore the existence of liberal interpretations of scripture that the west thrives on, can also exist among muslims. You're being presumptuous as shit and loud as hell. You're ignoring that the faults you point out in Islam are also in Christianity and dismiss it as "It's out culture so it's ok" or "that's not what we're talking about!! NOT RULUVUNT!!!" when intact it's very relevant. You're sitting in a culture accepting of another set of violence inducing texts and bashing on another culture based on another text and being holier than thou about it. You're not arguing, you're just demanding that we agree. Calm your shit this right instant and have a gatorade and a snickers! Come back when you've thought out actual points that stands without indulgence in generalization. I'm not the one pulling the same card over and over again. You're coming across as a total extremist republican. Everything you're saying can be distilled down to "Shut the fuck up about how our problem is basically the same and that we should focus on that! They have a fucking problem and we NEED to force THEM to solve it! They're fucking Dangerous!! So what if insane religious people are abusing kids and murdering minorities here? How is that relevant? How is it relevant that the president has to mention god when we go to war? We're a christian state!" Fuck the shut up! You can't just sit there and bark at us about the middle east when it's just as bad in the far west. One must face ones own demons before demanding that everyone else face theirs. You're being a kid.

[QUOTE=sonerin;36674011]Islam is based on Qur'an, dimwit. And if it says you are to kill non-muslims if you're a Muslim, then it means you are to kill non-muslims. There are no secret meanings to this. They are literal orders. Stop being in denial.[/QUOTE] back to /r/atheism please, your incoherent (and incorrect) arguments belong there

it is bad and they shouuld keep it in their own world

[QUOTE=Bomimo;36674079]I'm not, you fucking simpleton. I'm saying let's fuck a give about both instead you fucking hypocrite! You should really back out, because you're obviously yelling more than you're reading. Your arguments are assumptions and ignore the existence of liberal interpretations of scripture that the west thrives on, can also exist among muslims. You're being presumptuous as shit and loud as hell. You're ignoring that the faults you point out in Islam are also in Christianity and dismiss it as "It's out culture so it's ok" or "that's not what we're talking about!! NOT RULUVUNT!!!" when intact it's very relevant. You're sitting in a culture accepting of another set of violence inducing texts and bashing on another culture based on another text and being holier than thou about it. You're not arguing, you're just demanding that we agree. Calm your shit this right instant and have a gatorade and a snickers! Come back when you've thought out actual points that stands without indulgence in generalization. I'm not the one pulling the same card over and over again.[/QUOTE] And there is no point in ranting about Christianity on a "let's talk about Sharia" thread. You are being too fucking silly by bringing up a completely irrevelant topic to this thread. This isn't a bash the cross thread, we are arguing about the dark side of Islam here.

[QUOTE=sonerin;36674144]And there is no point in ranting about Christianity on a "let's talk about Sharia" thread. You are being too fucking silly by bringing up a completely irrevelant topic to this thread. This isn't a bash the cross thread, we are arguing about the dark side of Islam here.[/QUOTE] You're helpless. You're blind, stupid and arrogant. That is all there is to it. You're content to ignore western problems while demanding others fix theirs. that is hypocrisy. You can't call them barbarians without calling yourself one. I trust you realize that? God was invoked by bush when he declared war. every single time. You're obviously republican. You literally sit there and dismiss every relevant factor to this argument that can't be found in the Qur'an itself. I'm talking your right to bash islam here and you're still just foaming on. How is anyone to argue with you when you only want to stick to your holy book? Do you not see what you resemble by following that think tank? You don't want to cover the full extend of the argument, you just want to sit tight and ignore anything related, so you can generalize and bash on. That is just pathetic. Take your respect and flush it. It's covered in bullshit.

[QUOTE=Bomimo;36674164]You're helpless. You're blind, stupid and arrogant. That is all there is to it. You're content to ignore western problems while demanding others fix theirs. that is hypocrisy. You can't call them barbarians without calling yourself one. I trust you realize that? God was invoked by bush when he declared war. every single time. You're obviously republican. You literally sit there and dismiss every relevant factor to this argument that can't be found in the Qur'an itself. I'm talking your right to bash islam here and you're still just foaming on. How is anyone to argue with you when you only want to stick to your holy book? Do you not see what you resemble by following that think tank? You don't want to cover the full extend of the argument, you just want to sit tight and ignore anything related, so you can generalize and bash on. That is just pathetic. Take your respect and flush it. It's covered in bullshit.[/QUOTE] And out of nowhere I'm a republican American Christian out of nowhere because I am here bashing Islam? But that's wrong, you fucking bonehead. Your assumptions are as mature as your mentality. Your words just show how dumb you are. Next.

sonerin, honey, you got shut down by my first post and bomimo's aswell, just stop while you're as behind as you are, you're just making yourself look like an ignorant child

[QUOTE=Pelican;36674582]sonerin, honey, you got shut down by my first post and bomimo's aswell, just stop while you're as behind as you are, you're just making yourself look like an ignorant child[/QUOTE] I won't even reply to your posts anymore, none of you understand my point.

[QUOTE=sonerin;36674706]I won't even reply to your posts anymore, none of you understand my point.[/QUOTE] I'm ok with that. You don't understand ours. You've got the worst case of Binocular vision and "But what if" ever. [editline]8th July 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=sonerin;36674235]And out of nowhere I'm a republican American Christian out of nowhere because I am here bashing Islam? But that's wrong, you fucking bonehead. Your assumptions are as mature as your mentality. Your words just show how dumb you are. Next.[/QUOTE] The funny thing is that this would be a great thing for you to tell yourself in the mirror every morning. Yes, you're an assuming simpleton who only wants to entertain an argument as long as it's in your court. as soon as a challenging viewpoint or fact is presented to you, you go all badshit Republican. As in you shut your ears and start screaming your "thruth" and about how irrelevant the big picture is because we're stupid, when the fact is that it makes your view shallow and wrong. You're not considering enough of the picture to present a fulfilling argument for your point, because your point is dependent on ignoring everything but a corner of the problem. You're contempt to point fingers at your neighbors crumbling house while your own has already collapsed on you. It's laughably bad thinking. It's Fox News....

[QUOTE=C47;36671494]if applicable for everyday scenario then there would be a very apparent conflict with the peaceful verses like how it was mentioned above.[/QUOTE] Welcome to the world of holy books bud. The Qu'ran and Bible contradict themselves A LOT. That means they have a lot of value for interpreting, which is very bad. People kill each other over their interpretations of the "holy word". That's one of the reasons I have a problem with Sharia. Sharia changes depending on who interprets it. According to Sharia women have either half the value of men, or equal value, depending on how you interpret certain parts. This isn't consistent, this isn't fair, and this isn't just.

We could make a compromise and say .75. But let's be honest. Everyone would just want to kill the one suggesting the compromise for being offensive. That's always how it goes down.

[QUOTE=sonerin;36673165]Islam is violent and you guys accepted this fact just now by posting those words. Great. But you are now trying to justify Islam's violent actions because Christianity contains violence, which made me lose my respect for the both of you. Good job.[/QUOTE] Dude, your seriously an idiot. I never mentioned christianity in any of my post, because I know most of the anti-islamic trolls have absolutely no basis to criticize Islam if they take the bible vs quran stance. The idea is now to compare islam vs the new world (aka secular). Hence my posts talking about the world super-power USA (secular) which happens to be violent too. People who are all violent are stupid. People who are total pacifists are stupid. The correct order requires a balance of both. Thats there in Islam, and thats there in the world's leading super power (strictly talking about killing policies). Islam is violent, hell yeah it is, BUT towards those who are hostile towards it. And it makes perfect sense. Anywho, done talking to you. Your just going to take 3 words out of the Quran and make some stupid conclusion as the previous two new posters have already figured out about you. [QUOTE=yawmwen;36678705]Welcome to the world of holy books bud. The Qu'ran and Bible contradict themselves A LOT. That means they have a lot of value for interpreting, which is very bad. People kill each other over their interpretations of the "holy word". That's one of the reasons I have a problem with Sharia. Sharia changes depending on who interprets it. According to Sharia women have either half the value of men, or equal value, depending on how you interpret certain parts. This isn't consistent, this isn't fair, and this isn't just.[/QUOTE] It's consistent if you know the right sources to look at. The Quran isnt like the bible in any way. Each passage has a story behind and not to be taken literally. If you take sonerin's unacademic stance on things and compare 3 words out of context against 3 other words from the Quran, your bound to find contradictions. Islam is facing the same bullshit that Jews have suffered from. I had come across so many references from the Talmud (and that Protocols of the bla bla Zion) and so on referring to the "kill all non-jews" ideas. But came across another Judaic site which explained the context of that reference, and then suddenly it wasnt so evil after all.

[QUOTE=C47;36685841] Islam is violent, hell yeah it is, BUT towards those who are hostile towards it. And it makes perfect sense.[/QUOTE] Qur'an: Kill non-muslims if they don't convert into Islam. This isn't about war/battle/hostility, stop pulling the same card over and over again.

I think Sharia law should be allowed as long as it isn't mandatory.