[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51189443]Bear in mind, only TF2 and Portal 2 have true implementation for Sixense as far as I'm aware.
Most other games have to be configured through Sixense MotionCreator or Razer's version of the same. What those offer isn't true motion-aim, it's mouse-aim controlled by the motion controller.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51189305]"Properly set up" is the key word, especially when you're trying for market adoption. Think of why Kinect failed.[/QUOTE]
the irony tbh smh
easy as balls to set up VR, you really don't need much space.
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51189494]I disagree on account of the one thing motion controls can do that a mouse or analog stick can't.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/gdqf70A.jpg[/t]
See if you can see what that is.[/QUOTE]
It sure does have some really cool features, and I just looked up Portal 2 with Sixense and yeah it does look really cool. Being able to aim and look independently is awesome indeed.
[video=youtube;Jcl3ofXl-X0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcl3ofXl-X0[/video]
But I still can't see the [I]advantages[/I]. Aim will just not be as precise.
[QUOTE=J!NX;51189514]the irony tbh smh[/QUOTE]
Except that having to set up the games through MotionCreator is also a bad thing. If more devs actually did adopt motion controls, we wouldn't have to go through that and end up with what is still ultimately a half-measure. See if [i]you[/i] can spot in that image what real motion controls offer over a mouse, stick, or a game that was configured through MotionCreator.
are you serious
i can lower my gun but mouse players will likely destroy my anus but its cool they can't do what I can do so ha jokes on them
[editline]11th October 2016[/editline]
what the fuck is even the point lmao
[QUOTE=J!NX;51189541]what the fuck is even the point lmao[/QUOTE]
Why are you even defending VR when you can't see the point of something like that? C'mon, man, think.
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51189559]Why are you even defending VR when you can't see the point of something like that? C'mon, man, think.[/QUOTE]
There's a huge fucking difference between using motion controls when playing a game on a screen and when playing a game in VR.
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51189559]Why are you even defending VR when you can't see the point of something like that? C'mon, man, think.[/QUOTE]
because VR games will have you pitted against other VR players, and even if you get mouse players as well, VR can do something sixense can't, and that's hiding behind a wall, holstering your controller onto your belt, and even mounting your controller on a big ass stick to aim with or use as a spear. you can use your 2 hands to climb something in 360 degree, 3d space. You can shoot behind you or throw a grenade behind you. Like, sixsense literally can do none of these things.
VR is 360 degress. You don't have to look at a screen you know. You can actually turn around and realize that holy shit, you can turn around.
[editline]11th October 2016[/editline]
like do you really unironically think that your controller that breaks easily and forces you to be stuck to a desk and is only supported by 2 games worth it? Ok cool on you. I'll stick to actual motion controls that let me actually do things. Thanks.
I can walk around my room freely. You can't.
[editline]11th October 2016[/editline]
like no shit playing against mouse players while your in VR would be unfair
but you'd have to be pretty dim to not see the difference between full scale motion controls VS an over priced piece of shit that 2 games support and uses mouse controls.
I don't see how Razer using cruddy materials factors into anything, but you're right in that the Hydra ultimately wasn't worth its asking price due to how low the market adoption was. But if you can see how mouse vs. VR would be unfair, then you can see how I could cream mouse users even using my Hydra, right?
The technology behind it is sound. I just wish Sixense would actually release the STEM.
I wanted a STEM back when I saw it too, but then I said fuck it
the reason stem will likely never lift off is because the thing just won't be worth it without room scale and a headset
When I'm wearing a VR headset and look at my virtual controller, and take the headset off, it's position is exactly 1:1 to what I was just looking at.
VR allows PERFECT coordination in motion controls. This is the difference. I can sense depth in VR and therefore I can move more easily and fluidly. This is literally impossible when playing at a desk with a monitor.
Hell, even if I had 1 eye I'd defend VR. Even with bad depth perception VR allows for easier coordination.
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51189612]I don't see how Razer using cruddy materials factors into anything, but you're right in that the Hydra ultimately wasn't worth its asking price due to how low the market adoption was. But if you can see how mouse vs. VR would be unfair, then you can see how I could cream mouse users even using my Hydra, right?
The technology behind it is sound. I just wish Sixense would actually release the STEM.[/QUOTE]
He didn't say anything about materials???
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51189494]See if you can see what that is.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51189531]See if [i]you[/i] can spot in that image what real motion controls offer over a mouse, stick, or a game that was configured through MotionCreator.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51189559]you can't see the point of something like that? C'mon, man, think.[/QUOTE]
Dude, just make your point, how does lowering your gun give you an advantage.
[QUOTE=J!NX;51189622]I wanted a STEM back when I saw it too, but then I said fuck it
the reason stem will likely never lift off is because the thing just won't be worth it without room scale and a headset
When I'm wearing a VR headset and look at my virtual controller, and take the headset off, it's position is exactly 1:1 to what I was just looking at.
VR allows PERFECT coordination in motion controls. This is the difference. I can sense depth in VR and therefore I can move more easily and fluidly. This is literally impossible when playing at a desk with a monitor.[/QUOTE]
You can't sense depth in VR. It's still a 2D plain. You don't have depth perception beyond masked illusions.
[QUOTE=simkas;51189629]He didn't say anything about materials???[/QUOTE]
lets be fair though, I did say "breaks easily" and razor products are indeed made of shit
every person who defends razors build quality is a sell out
[editline]11th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Swilly;51189633]You can't sense depth in VR. It's still a 2D plain. You don't have depth perception beyond masked illusions.[/QUOTE]
I can't get a real life sense of depth no doubt, but I can still get enough of a sense of depth, or at LEAST distance, that I can know how to react to something
like, it still has way more depth than even a 3d TV. I know after some small distance that I forgot it deteriorates. But it allows me to get a read on distance and scale, and shape.
[QUOTE=Swilly;51189633]You can't sense depth in VR. It's still a 2D plain. You don't have depth perception beyond masked illusions.[/QUOTE]
but those illusions provide a sense of depth thats close enough to reality that it's basically irrelevant
if that wasnt the case shooting games would suck balls in VR
[QUOTE=J!NX;51189622]I wanted a STEM back when I saw it too, but then I said fuck it
the reason stem will likely never lift off is because the thing just won't be worth it without room scale and a headset
When I'm wearing a VR headset and look at my virtual controller, and take the headset off, it's position is exactly 1:1 to what I was just looking at.
VR allows PERFECT coordination in motion controls. This is the difference. I can sense depth in VR and therefore I can move more easily and fluidly. This is literally impossible when playing at a desk with a monitor.
Hell, even if I had 1 eye I'd defend VR. Even with bad depth perception VR allows for easier coordination.[/QUOTE]
That's a fair point, but what you gain with that 1:1 coordination between your real and virtual body, you lose in control abstraction. VR is all about [i]you[/i] being in the game. There's no leveraging that for things outside of first-person experiences. Motion controls have use outside of those, too.
[QUOTE=Swilly;51189633]You can't sense depth in VR. It's still a 2D plain. You don't have depth perception beyond masked illusions.[/QUOTE]
It's enough of an illusion that you pretty much can sense depth.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;51189646]but those illusions provide a sense of depth thats close enough to reality that it's basically irrelevant
if that wasnt the case shooting games would suck balls in VR[/QUOTE]
You both realize you get the same depth from a monitor?
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;51189631]Dude, just make your point, how does lowering your gun give you an advantage.[/QUOTE]
Hand-eye coordination and awareness. When you use a mouse, an analog stick, or a game configured through MotionCreator, you are a turret on legs. You look where you aim. If you want to shoot to something slightly to your left, you have to turn to the left too. With a motion controller, I can aim all around the screen (granted, some games have a better implementation of how this is done than others.) I don't lose any situational awareness. What's more, where I point with my hand is where I shoot relative to where I'm looking, and muscle memory is allowed to develop. The plastic lump that is a mouse, the tiny control stick, or joystick-like use of a "fake" motion control, that's all unnatural and has no real correlation with what I'm doing.
[QUOTE=J!NX;51189574]like no shit playing against mouse players while your in VR would be unfair.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51189612]But if you can see how mouse vs. VR would be unfair, then you can see how I could cream mouse users even using my Hydra, right?[/QUOTE]
Wait, what? No! A VR user vs mouse users in a game made for mouse controls would get just as mauled, again simply because a raised human hand isn't nearly as steady as a resting wrist. You simply won't have the same aim regardless of tracking quality. The difference is that VR allows incredible immersion, natural movement, complete hand freedom, etc. It's not even remotely [I]better[/I] as in competitively advantageous, it's simply different and much more engaging, allows for completely new types of gameplay.
[QUOTE=Swilly;51189633]You can't sense depth in VR. It's still a 2D plain. You don't have depth perception beyond masked illusions.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck, even more no. VR literally uses the same kind of 3D as real life does.
[QUOTE=Swilly;51189633]You can't sense depth in VR. It's still a 2D plain. You don't have depth perception beyond masked illusions.[/QUOTE]
yes you can, it's stereoscopic 3d. The only real depth cue that contemporary VR is missing is accommodation.
[QUOTE=Swilly;51189674]You both realize you get the same depth from a monitor?[/QUOTE]
No you don't? A monitor is just a single screen. VR puts 2 views directly in front of your eyes with a slightly different angle each similar to how, you know, your fucking eyes work?
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;51189680]Wait, what? No! A VR user vs mouse users in a game made for mouse controls would get just as mauled, again simply because a raised human hand isn't nearly as steady as a resting wrist. You simply won't have the same aim regardless of tracking quality. The difference is that VR allows incredible immersion, natural movement, complete hand freedom, etc. It's not even remotely [I]better[/I] as in competitively advantageous, it's simply different and much more engaging, allows for completely new types of gameplay.[/QUOTE]
My wrist [i]is[/i] resting when I aim with motion controls. You don't think I hold my arm in the air like a damn aircraft marshal, do you?
[QUOTE=Swilly;51189674]You both realize you get the same depth from a monitor?[/QUOTE]
you realize that a VR headset projects two images (one for each eye) and is strapped two your face right?
unless you're using some kind of wack ass stereoscopic monitor you don't get the same sense of depth from a normal screen.
There's more to depth than placing two monitors to your fucking face. Stop dumbinh down a complex full bodied sense that takes in a lot more than vision.
[QUOTE=Swilly;51189698]There's more to depth than placing two monitors to your fucking face. Stop dumbinh down a complex full bodied sense that takes in a lot more than vision.[/QUOTE]
Who the hell is talking about a complex full bodied sense? No one is saying anything about that. We're talking about being able to know how far things are away from just looking at them when you're using a VR headset.
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51189693]My wrist [i]is[/i] resting when I aim with motion controls. You don't think I hold my arm in the air like a damn aircraft marshal, do you?[/QUOTE]
but it isnt resting as much as a mouse-aimed hand is.
it's like the difference bettween shooting a rifle IRL from a supported or standing position. A gun is going to be inherently less stable if you're just holding it in your hands compared to shooting it while it's resting on a bench, for example.
[QUOTE=simkas;51189705]Who the hell is talking about a complex full bodied sense? No one is saying anything about that. We're talking about being able to know how far things are away from just looking at them when you're using a VR headset.[/QUOTE]
Which you can do with a monitor as well. It's not stereoscopy that creates that judgement of distance, it's environment and line of sight.
[QUOTE=Swilly;51189721]Which you can do with a monitor as well. It's not stereoscopy that creates that judgement of distance, it's environment and line of sight.[/QUOTE]
No, you can't do it as well on a monitor. Not even close.
[QUOTE=Swilly;51189698]There's more to depth than placing two monitors to your fucking face. Stop dumbinh down a complex full bodied sense that takes in a lot more than vision.[/QUOTE]
no one said it's like [i]actual[/i] depth perception, but it's a hell of a lot different than a normal monitor or even a stereoscopic TV.
[QUOTE=Swilly;51189698]There's more to depth than placing two monitors to your fucking face. Stop dumbinh down a complex full bodied sense that takes in a lot more than vision.[/QUOTE]
This is even more crazy than the on-going motion controls discussion. Our actual real life vision is 'two monitors in your fucking face'. That's why our depth perception is greatly diminished when closing one eye. I get that you're implicitly trying to remind us all that depth perception is more complicated than just convergence, but convergence is the absolutely most important bit, and VR gets that right in such a way that saying [I]"You can't sense depth in VR. It's still a 2D plain."[/I] is 100% stupid.
[QUOTE=VinLAURiA;51189693]My wrist [i]is[/i] resting when I aim with motion controls. You don't think I hold my arm in the air like a damn aircraft marshal, do you?[/QUOTE]
Can you show me how you aim with motion controls? I'm genuinely curious. I don't see how you could possibly avoid decreasing your potential accuracy compared to the accuracy you can get aiming with your wrist and fingers on an object that will be perfectly still if you let go.
[QUOTE=Swilly;51189721]it's environment and line of sight.[/QUOTE]
Can you elaborate? That sounds suspiciously like something VR actually can do?
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