With Open Gates: Video on the EU refugee crisis. - General

"The collective suicide of European nations" Bfahaha, fucking what the hell, the collective suicide here is the idea that there is a european "culture" that is somehow unified now that there's the """""threat""""" of spooky muslims

whatever your stance on the matter is zilla, european cultures are closely linked to eachother via ideas, intellectuals and primarily - the people - united in democracy, freedom of speech and workethic. unlike a lot of the refugees coming here

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];49090210']Actually, refugees arriving in Turkey have used their phones to find refugee centers, refugee-friendly businesses and workplaces, and to connect with social groups for refugees and past Syrian immigrants. Not sure why that's "bullshit", because the functionality of the phone extends far past just Google Maps, which, by the way, does function at a base level and even if it doesn't offer GPS services constantly does offer an actual map.[/QUOTE] Plus we only knew about Assad's human rights violations in 2012 because people took out their smartphones and recorded them. You ever see that clip of the Syrian rebel eating that soldier's heart? "Oh no I was never told they had iPhones!!"

i can see how this thread is gonna go 2-3 pages of people talking normal about this 7 pages of BDA and others shitposting because of other's opinions

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];49090101'] Rest of the comment aside, this particular statement is stupid as shit. [b]Poor farmers in the third world can get iPhones now thanks to cheap as shit labor[/b], let alone professionals and educated middle class people- which is the majority demographic coming from Syria to Europe (y'know, the ones who can afford to leave rather than be drafted and can afford to make the trip). You know what disappears during the war? Food, water, electricity, safety. Know what doesn't? iPhones, TVs, and gadgets. Like seriously lol if you were kicked out of Germany would you leave your smart phone behind? The one with GPS and internet capable of guiding you to safety? Because there's a war? [/QUOTE] Poor farmers don't even know how the chocolate taste that they are farming. [QUOTE='[Seed Eater];49090101'] This is fair enough but in all honesty the migrants have a good reason to be pissed. I mean, escape war, shoveled into shit refugee camps, then escape overcrowded camps, then have the European community generally collectively shit on them for months while they pack them into even less capable camps and buildings while they take the time to debate the merits of letting people into the countries, and then finally when they do get to their destination they're harassed and crowded again and it's not what they expected and so on. Of course some of the actions are reprehensible but there's a lot of shock and unclarity involved. The handling of the situation was bungled and so of course it's the migrants who pay the price.[/QUOTE] You're acting like we have unlimited resources, many countries cannot even support their own citizens. They can be happy that we even accept them. I guess it's easy to say that for someone who isn't effected by this.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;49089097]Can't speak for what happens in Europe but here in Canada we have issues primarily with second and third generation immigrants who, for reasons we don't understand, have a considerably higher than normal chance of becoming religious extremists.[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer[/url] Explains it well. I used to know or have other books on the case but I have forgotten the title.

I never expected to see so many FPers agreeing with a /pol/ propaganda piece it does bring up some valid points however. [QUOTE=Billy-Bobfred;49090752]i can see how this thread is gonna go 2-3 pages of people talking normal about this 7 pages of BDA and others shitposting because of other's opinions[/QUOTE] "Banned for Islamophobia"

[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;49090894]I never expected to see so many FPers agreeing with a /pol/ propaganda piece it does bring up some valid points however.[/QUOTE] Its only propaganda if you havent dealt with it face to face. The acid test of any ideology is the out come consistent with its claims? My response was try to create my own ideology to counter the silliness with both sides. Haven't gotten far.

[QUOTE=JohhnyCarson;49090842][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer[/url] Explains it well. I used to know or have other books on the case but I have forgotten the title.[/QUOTE] Surprised I've never heard of this book, I studied quite a bit of psychology in college and nothing like this ever got covered. Well maybe I shouldn't be that surprised considering how offensive some people would consider this.

my family only exists because polish refugees were allowed to resettle in the UK instead of being sent back to Poland which was under the control of the Soviet Union at the time. If these people are desperate - so desperate that they have made the dangerous journey here, some with young children, then we should not turn them away

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49091357]my family only exists because polish refugees were allowed to resettle in the UK instead of being sent back to Poland which was under the control of the Soviet Union at the time. If these people are desperate - so desperate that they have made the dangerous journey here, some with young children, then we should not turn them away[/QUOTE] I have a third option. Work with the third world nations (such as Somalia) who want UN and Western help, build them up, have the refugees go there. Some of these places the culture is more compatible.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49091357]my family only exists because polish refugees were allowed to resettle in the UK instead of being sent back to Poland which was under the control of the Soviet Union at the time. If these people are desperate - so desperate that they have made the dangerous journey here, some with young children, then we should not turn them away[/QUOTE] Yeah well your family probably didn't start shit with the locals and actually tried to assimilate. My mom's side fled vietnam after the commies took over since my grandpa was a dirty capitalist factory owner. Now most of my cousins are nurses and engineers n shit. Those are the kinds of refugees worth taking in, not gangs of angry potential extremists burning handouts.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;49091269]Surprised I've never heard of this book, I studied quite a bit of psychology in college and nothing like this ever got covered. Well maybe I shouldn't be that surprised considering how offensive some people would consider this.[/QUOTE] Read more about the subject of fanaticism, It is a fascinating topic. There is a reason why I believe fanaticism = intolerance. The end of it is, those who immigrate to a foreign land are more likely to convert to a religion and become more fanatical then those left in the home country. Also it does not help that Western Nations are poking around in foreign nations in a rather exploitative manner. Islam does not tolerate injustice or being taken advantage of. I do not have hard facts but since 9/11, profiling by the government and people screwing with Muslim citizens of western cultures has created some rather harsh feelings.

R.I.P. Europe

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49088716]You have a housing crisis and are accepting tons of refugees. Quite a few people don't want a giant influx of refugees but all of the parties aside from the crazy right wing ones are afraid of being called racist. Its not a good situation.[/QUOTE] Look I'm not saying the the housing crisis (or the unemployement rate) is not bad but the overall economic state of sweden is not bad. We have a low inflation, we have a good GDP and good Gini ratio. Every citizen has access to water, healthcare, education, food and clothes. The average citizen makes enough to affored housing, a car, internet, phones, education, various entertainment and etc. It's a good economic situation but some things could be and has been better.

[QUOTE=Dim;49084989]Wow, haven't heard something as stupid as that for a long time. How can you even say that "the refugees" in general are like this ? There is a shelter for refugees around 500 meters away from my house i visit three times a week and they are all more than happy to be here and to be able to have some hope in their lifes. The only thing you are doing here is generalising...[/QUOTE] So, because a handful of your personal accounts aren't behaving like a large part of the refugees who have shitty attitudes towards what they are given, that makes it generalizing? I've never understanded this train of thought. [editline]10th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Dim;49085163]Wow dude, i think i see what your problem is now... you have never talked to a refugee have you ? You heard that they "want 5 star lunches" from i don`t know where and just thought :"yeah that`s probably how it is, let`s just go with that". I would really advise you to go visit some of these people, then you might get to know a few of their real problems such as: - Is my daughter/mother/sister/father/wife still alive ? - Will this camp be attacked by right wing activists aswell ?[/QUOTE] Yes, we'll go talk to the ones right next to your house, because those are most definently the same as the reported majority [b]which are ungrateful of the treatment they've been given which rivals that given to certain national families, or aren't even refugees to begin with[/b].

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49084312]Metric shit ton of white guilt and a western superiority complex (we have to help them, etc)[/QUOTE] I believe I've mentioned it before but nobody ever called it "white guilt" when people were taking in refugees from Nazi Germany or the Yugoslav Wars, and almost nobody called it that when the underground railroad harbored escaped slaves from the southern states (in that case the few people who did speak ill of such practice tended to call it theft), but suddenly now that it's "them damn muzzies" human decency is called white guilt.

I don't feel safe living here after watching that, at all. It's not helping that many apartments, lets take the old apartment where I lived a few months ago as an example of the situation, are getting straight up trashed. The apartment was build in 2002 and was split in two buildings. One was filled with a very mixed culture, me being from russia, the neighbors being from spain, italy, even england, and the other building was mostly with people from the south with the exception of two german families. My parents are friends with them so we get told from them how it is living in that building. Mostly we got told that they never get greeted back as if they don't talk our language and the trash that gets taken out gets laid down next to the garbage cans because lifting the lid is apparently too much work. Now 3 months ago we moved out and since that month passed the playground that was for the kids next door was completely destroyed, the main remote for the garage door got stolen and in the last month one car got stolen. Before all this happened the area was very quiet and safe, you could leave your bike outside over night and it would still be there the next day because everyone looks for each other. That's what the new people don't seem to understand. I'm [I]really[/I] looking forward to the next 6 months.

This situation is confusing as fuck, and doesn't help there's two sides that defend their views even if they knew they were wrong. And it seems there's two sides to every argument. "They're uneducated and won't find legal work" "They're young adults with degrees and education ready so it's workforce we don't have to pay to educate" "The educational standards are much higher here so they don't qualify" "They clearly are very criminal because publicly reporting their crimes isn't allowed anymore" "Their crimes would be unfairly publicized to make them seem as bad as possible" "They're only 1% to the population, abysmal number" "City centres seem filled with them, on occasions they're outnumbering village populations and I've heard people have had confrontations with them" "They'll leave as the conflict in their country settles" "They're not where they say they're from and want in on our prosperity" "They'll bring their extremist ideals to us" "It's baseless conjecture and fearmongering" "So many people needing aid and resources will fuck the economy" "They're educated professionals which we have a need of" "The cultural differences will cause conflicts" "Only if you're racist they will" Either side can be right but there's just no way to know, especially since such a huge bunch of people are ignorant and will gladly buy into fearmongering but another bunch just refuses any evidence.

i mean legit just kick the ungrateful cunts out "boo hoo you gave us aid lets burn it guies hue hue" also when did asteroid get unbanned

[QUOTE=Talishmar;49092574]This situation is confusing as fuck, and doesn't help there's two sides that defend their views even if they knew they were wrong. And it seems there's two sides to every argument. "They're uneducated and won't find legal work" "They're young adults with degrees and education ready so it's workforce we don't have to pay to educate" "The educational standards are much higher here so they don't qualify" "They clearly are very criminal because publicly reporting their crimes isn't allowed anymore" "Their crimes would be unfairly publicized to make them seem as bad as possible" "They're only 1% to the population, abysmal number" "City centres seem filled with them, on occasions they're outnumbering village populations and I've heard people have had confrontations with them" "They'll leave as the conflict in their country settles" "They're not where they say they're from and want in on our prosperity" "They'll bring their extremist ideals to us" "It's baseless conjecture and fearmongering" "So many people needing aid and resources will fuck the economy" "They're educated professionals which we have a need of" "The cultural differences will cause conflicts" "Only if you're racist they will" Either side can be right but there's just no way to know, especially since such a huge bunch of people are ignorant and will gladly buy into fearmongering but another bunch just refuses any evidence.[/QUOTE] I honestly see it as being a 40/60 situation. While they might have degrees and education, who says that's usable in the countries they're at? Heck, who says they'll manage to get jobs, when so much people can't already? Some are criminals, others aren't. It marginalizes them either way, but they're already demonized by the media. It doesn't matters that they are 1% of the whole population, since 1% of the population doesn't really means they'll be outnumbered in comparison to the nationals of a country, like for example that town that now has 7x more population because of them. They'll never leave. And nobody should ever fool themselves into thinking this, and to be honest, I don't think I'd blame them for not leaving. Remaking their lives, why would they go back to their war-thorn country? What worries me in this is that its yet, more strain on a country's system. Yet another thing that people fool themselves... So, inserting a different culture into another wont bring weird ideals in the mix? And wait, would someone be racist if some guy said its in their culture to do some fucked up thing to someone and then fight back instead of sitting back and saying "oh well, its their culture"? That's just fucked up lol. And the thing about "they're educated professionals which we have a need of"... I honestly don't know how people think this. Every now and then we hear about countries having people with degrees who can't find jobs in the areas they have degrees in... What makes anyone think someone from thousands of miles away will be easily integrated into anything? honestly? people are delusional as fuck all they think about is helping, but they give no fucks whatsoever about what that might do in the long term, or even short term. [editline]10th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=asteroidrules;49091784]I believe I've mentioned it before but nobody ever called it "white guilt" when people were taking in refugees from Nazi Germany or the Yugoslav Wars, and almost nobody called it that when the underground railroad harbored escaped slaves from the southern states (in that case the few people who did speak ill of such practice tended to call it theft), but suddenly now that it's "them damn muzzies" human decency is called white guilt.[/QUOTE] lol really? I'm probably not the best at articulating the differences, but last time I checked, theres a huge difference from one to another... Enough to not be a "them damn muzzies" kind of thing

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;49091784]I believe I've mentioned it before but nobody ever called it "white guilt" when people were taking in refugees from Nazi Germany or the Yugoslav Wars, and almost nobody called it that when the underground railroad harbored escaped slaves from the southern states (in that case the few people who did speak ill of such practice tended to call it theft), but suddenly now that it's "them damn muzzies" human decency is called white guilt.[/QUOTE] Uh... Debateable. People who took in Northern refugees in the South after the Civil War were lovingly called jays, nigger lovers, carpetbaggers, list goes on. As for Yugoslav Wars, good one. One of the family friends back in NY, had fled the shit going down there, and he told us that he couldn't go anywhere without being called a coward or a pussy for not fighting for his fellow Christians.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;49091784]I believe I've mentioned it before but nobody ever called it "white guilt" when people were taking in refugees from Nazi Germany or the Yugoslav Wars, and almost nobody called it that when the underground railroad harbored escaped slaves from the southern states (in that case the few people who did speak ill of such practice tended to call it theft), but suddenly now that it's "them damn muzzies" human decency is called white guilt.[/QUOTE] There were muslim refugees from the Yugoslav wars. I don't see what you're getting at. These people went from their countries to western europe and took what supplies and opportunities they were given. They didn't burn their supplies to demand more or to get to Germany and there wasn't 800,000 of them a year.

[QUOTE=soliv;49090753] You're acting like we have unlimited resources, many countries cannot even support their own citizens. They can be happy that we even accept them. I guess it's easy to say that for someone who isn't effected by this.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but the number of refugees you're in-taking (you being Europe) is tiny compared to the yearly birth rate. The stress on the system is immensely small- the problems that you're experiencing are due to unpreparedness to handle the situation, not to take care of the people in the intermediate or even long term. Once this smooths itself out then you won't even realize they are there. And actually, it's interesting you say that because I live just outside one of the largest Iraqi and Syrian refugee intake area in the US right now. We already had 3000 arrive and another 4000 coming soon within the year, with us bringing in a big chunk of the 100k expected by 2017. We don't exactly have the numbers that you have, but the fact that we aren't having the same sort of issues that you're seeing is kind of evidence towards what preparedness does for the situation.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49092954]There were muslim refugees from the Yugoslav wars. I don't see what you're getting at. These people went from their countries to western europe and took what supplies and opportunities they were given. They didn't burn their supplies to demand more or to get to Germany and there wasn't 800,000 of them a year.[/QUOTE] Can you provide any significant proof that the burning supplies incidents are a significant problem and not just an anecdote propagated to incite division about the issue? How is them trying to get to countries that have greater resources and thus better ability to provide for refugees a problem? Or for that matter how can you pretend the same didn't happen when Yugoslav refugees spread all across western Europe and a decent amount fled as far as America (I think it's safe to say you're not just going to claim I don't exist). Also there were actually about 4 million people displaced by the Yugoslav wars, and the numbers I'm seeing suggest a total of closer to 600,000 refugees are currently applying annually in Europe (compared to the native population growth rate of over 1 million annually).

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];49093073'] We already had 3000 arrive and another 4000 coming soon within the year, with us bringing in a big chunk of the 100k expected by 2017. We don't exactly have the numbers that you have, but the fact that we aren't having the same sort of issues that you're seeing is kind of evidence towards what preparedness does for the situation.[/QUOTE] Are you for real? The US has a population of 322 million people. Refugees are not interested in going to "Europe", they're interested in the rich countries which collectively have [URL="http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sum+of+population+of+france%2C+germany%2C+sweden%2C+UK%2C+Norway%2C+Netherlands%2C+Finland%2C+Belgium%2C+Switzerland%2C+Denmark"]270 million people[/URL]. Sweden with its meager 10 million population accepts 10k refugees a week, extrapolated to the american population that's 320k per week. For how long would the US be able to handle that? Also going to add that Sweden had 115k births in total in 2014, and more than 120k people have applied for asylum in 2015. So no, the amount of refugees is not tiny compared to births.

The thing about Yugoslovian refugees is that they actually respected their host nations and werent economic migrants in disguise.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;49091784]I believe I've mentioned it before but nobody ever called it "white guilt" when people were taking in refugees from Nazi Germany or the Yugoslav Wars, and almost nobody called it that when the underground railroad harbored escaped slaves from the southern states (in that case the few people who did speak ill of such practice tended to call it theft), but suddenly now that it's "them damn muzzies" human decency is called white guilt.[/QUOTE] When a country not only takes in more people than the system can handle, but also without any real control, resulting in a portion of those people being nothing but already relatively well-off welfare tourists, you've got a big problem. When said people are also part of a vastly different culture with values and morals that go straight against those in their new home, with a portion of the people going batshit and fucking things up because "ur a bunch of degenerates!!!! (but thanks for your taxmoney retards)" you've got an even bigger problem. (Not to mention that some of the immigrants are racist as fuck, and will attack other immigrants over nothing but skin pigment) When you've also got people in government who sit on their ass, not wanting to look at the elephant in the room, saying "Hmm, we're [I]somehow[/I] bleeding resources. We need to either strip down the systems or take a massive loan". A media demonizing anyone who dare consider the problems in the slightest, essentially brainwashing certain parts of the population into thinking everything's fine, making other people afraid of speaking their mind, resulting in the only political parties interested by the problems being extremist right wing ones that are about as crazy as the fundamentalist muslims, tadaa, you've now got the clusterfuck of a problem europe is going through right now.

On a different note, who made the music in this video? It's pretty damn cool, but there's too much background noise to get it to shazam.

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;49093213]When a country not only takes in more people than the system can handle, but also without any real control, resulting in a portion of those people being nothing but already relatively well-off welfare tourists, you've got a big problem. When said people are also part of a vastly different culture with values and morals that go straight against those in their new home, with a portion of the people going batshit and fucking things up because "ur a bunch of degenerates!!!! (but thanks for your taxmoney retards)" you've got an even bigger problem. (Not to mention that some of the immigrants are racist as fuck, and will attack other immigrants over nothing but skin pigment) When you've also got people in government who sit on their ass, not wanting to look at the elephant in the room, saying "Hmm, we're [I]somehow[/I] bleeding resources. We need to either strip down the systems or take a massive loan". A media demonizing anyone who dare consider the problems in the slightest, essentially brainwashing certain parts of the population into thinking everything's fine, making other people afraid of speaking their mind, resulting in the only political parties interested by the problems being extremist right wing ones that are about as crazy as the fundamentalist muslims, tadaa, you've now got the clusterfuck of a problem europe is going through right now.[/QUOTE] This post is exactly the situation in Sweden and Finland. The government is cutting 200 million from already abysmal elderly care here. My city's hospital is also getting downsized to save money, so in the future if for example someone has to give birth, they're in for a 2 hour long car ride to the nearest hospital instead of just 5 minutes. Meanwhile they're increasing refugee moneys by 100 million more while it already is a 1 billion euro per year money sink. The refugees are spilling in from the Swedish border because your government is practically throwing them into trains to Finland to ease the burden on Sweden, fucking us both over. And closing the border would, of course, be racist.