[QUOTE=Mon;32398967]you have to think about this from your typical ultra-right-wing fox news viewer's perspective. the second they hear about this, they're going to be pissed - very pissed. odds are they'll protest, and pull their kids out of school. and then there's the administrative impact - whoever came up with the idea is going to be put under a heap of both praise and hate. in the end though, a lot of shit will be stirred over an issue that could have been fixed more gradually.
trust me, i'm all for teaching that homosexuals are equals - just not in today's societal environment[/QUOTE]
I think bigots who have raised bigots pulling their little bigots out of school would be the best thing to happen to the school system in decades.
You [i]never[/i] have to pander to the extremists because they're just that - extremists. Not indicative of society as a whole.
[QUOTE=Mon;32398967]you have to think about this from your typical ultra-right-wing fox news viewer's perspective. the second they hear about this, they're going to be pissed - very pissed. odds are they'll protest, and pull their kids out of school. and then there's the administrative impact - whoever came up with the idea is going to be put under a heap of both praise and hate. in the end though, a lot of shit has been stirred over an issue that could have been fixed more gradually.[/QUOTE]
You cannot base your entire standard of what is and is not "okay" to teach on pandering to bigots. We did that in public schools back when they were still segregated, and young kids showed up to that integration in Little Rock, Arkansas. They verbally harassed the Black students, and all because they got it from their parents.
Sure did work out well, didn't it?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32399009]I think bigots who have raised bigots pulling their little bigots out of school would be the best thing to happen to the school system in decades.
You [i]never[/i] have to pander to the extremists because they're just that - extremists. Not indicative of society as a whole.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.now.org/issues/lgbi/stats.html[/url]
that's a whole lot of extremists
For those that say that sex should not be taught in schools completely ignore the fact that history has been whitewashed by heterosexuality. The argument to teach homosexuality was never based on teaching children about the physical act, but the presence that homosexuals have had on history. In most schools homosexuality is either never talked about or very infrequently mentioned, where as heterosexuality is discussed as if it were always the norm. Education has been deduced down to kings and queens, artists and musicians with no sexual preference if they were homosexual, and placing our own cultural norms on civilizations that existed thousands of years ago which may have operated completely differently when it came to sexuality.
It's a shame that a lot of you believe that the only thing homosexuals have to offer to the course curriculum is anal sex. There is enough evidence to suggest that some of the most important figures in history were homosexual or at the least bi sexual. This however gets ignored and passed over time and time again so that what we end up with are misinformed children who believe that homosexuals served no purpose in history.
It also tickles me that those that don't want schools to teach about sexuality are only degrading male homosexuals and not female. Perhaps some debaters are a little bit insecure in this thread?
In britian, a few years ago there were some people saying that children should be taught to be black and muslim
[QUOTE=Mon;32399065][url]http://www.now.org/issues/lgbi/stats.html[/url]
that's a whole lot of extremists[/QUOTE]
You do realize that most of those statistics are 15+ years old.
[QUOTE=Jimpy;32399123]You do realize that most of those statistics are 15+ years old.[/QUOTE]
i realised that, trying to pull up a better list :v:
Homosexuality is not the normal, natural orientation, therefore it should not receive equal representation as heterosexuality. Teaching any sort of sexuality in school is bogus. Being gay is perfectly acceptable and having issues against the homosexual population means that you are the troubled one yourself.
[QUOTE=Tacosheller;32398405]Wait, people still use faggot as a derogatory term against gays? I just calls people faggots, y'know, when they're being faggots.
This is basically my opinion:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IFloXOuLgA[/media][/QUOTE]
I see your louis ck faggot related video and raise you one
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-55wC5dEnc[/media]
just skip to 4:11, but the full video is pretty great
Let children understand the idea and that its acceptable, just like we should teach then racial and religious acceptance.
i couldn't find a better list, but odds are they've gone down a bit anyway. but the point still is, a lot of people will be pissed at the idea of teaching this stuff.
[QUOTE=Mon;32399196]i couldn't find a better list, but odds are they've gone down a bit anyway. but the point still is, a lot of people will be pissed at the idea of teaching this stuff.[/QUOTE]
A lot of people don't like the idea of evolution either, and suggest we "teach the controversy". Would you argue that it is equally valid to avoid teaching about evolution?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32399230]A lot of people don't like the idea of evolution either, and suggest we "teach the controversy". Would you argue that it is equally valid to avoid teaching about evolution?[/QUOTE]
that's completely beside the point, but you are getting at a relevant idea here. teaching the idea along controversy would give a better idea of what's going on really, and i guess it would also somewhat appease the far right.
that's not to say that the right wing media won't try and spin it though (and you know how willingly some people listen to it)
[QUOTE=Mon;32399196]i couldn't find a better list, but odds are they've gone down a bit anyway. but the point still is, a lot of people will be pissed at the idea of teaching this stuff.[/QUOTE]
A lot of people are pissed that evolution is being taught.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;32397100]Why does that not apply to math? Factoring polynomials is hard! Leave it up to the parents to decide if their children need to know that!
The fact that homosexuality is not some terrifying revelation and there's no reason kids shouldn't have to learn about it in school.
Now we're writing black history out of curricula as well?[/QUOTE]
Arithmetic is a factual system of logic. sexuality is human, illogical, and subjective, and is not factually based.
I think at this stage it would be ok to promote acceptance, once children are at the right age. But not everyone is very tolerant of gays so you would never have this as a universal policy across the states.
[QUOTE=Mon;32399267]that's completely beside the point, but you are getting at a relevant idea here. teaching the idea along controversy would give a better idea of what's going on really, and i guess it would also somewhat appease the far right.
that's not to say that the right wing media won't try and spin it though (and you know how willingly some people listen to it)[/QUOTE]
You just said political bias should stay out of the classroom and yet we should avoid teaching that homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality (only a "Leftist" opinion for the reason that the Right often doesn't believe it) in order to avoid angering the bigots? How is that not hypocritical?
[QUOTE=sp00ks;32399273]A lot of people are pissed that evolution is being taught.[/QUOTE]
true, but this is more of a humanistic issue, rather than a biological one
[QUOTE=SnowCanary;32399162]Homosexuality is not the normal, natural orientation, therefore it should not receive equal representation as heterosexuality. Teaching any sort of sexuality in school is bogus. Being gay is perfectly acceptable and having issues against the homosexual population means that you are the troubled one yourself.[/QUOTE]
Are you really saying it's not natural? I mean, REALLY...
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32399349]You just said political bias should stay out of the classroom and yet we should avoid teaching that homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality (only a "Leftist" opinion for the reason that the Right often doesn't believe it) in order to avoid angering the bigots? How is that not hypocritical?[/QUOTE]
i was saying initially that we should probably just say that it exists, and leave it up to the child to make his own conclusions
ideally, that would be the least biased way of doing it
imo everybody has their own version of what's biased and what isn't, so it's all a bit subjective
[QUOTE=SnowCanary;32399162]Homosexuality is not the normal, natural orientation, therefore it should not receive equal representation as heterosexuality. Teaching any sort of sexuality in school is bogus. Being gay is perfectly acceptable and having issues against the homosexual population means that you are the troubled one yourself.[/QUOTE]
haha what? sure being gay isn't normal but even if it wasn't natural (which it is) what does nature have to do with anything? smallpox is natural, so should we let it stick around? no, we shouldn't. it certainly doesn't help your argument that a bunch of animals other then humans can be gay, so I really can't figure how an elephant can unnaturally decide to be gay.
I also can't figure out why everyone doesn't want any sexuality or sex ed in schools, why have shitty education that leads to more unwanted pregnancies and stds when you can easily prevent it with some sexuality in school? it's not like sexuality is some horrible child corrupting monster.
[QUOTE=Mon;32399388]i was saying initially that we should probably just say that it exists, and leave it up to the child to make his own conclusions[/QUOTE]
We don't do that for race, do we? We don't teach that blacks exist and let children come up with their own conclusions, we teach that all races are equal. Sexuality is as chosen by the individual as race is so it should be treated exactly the same in the classroom.
[quote]School is supposed to teach you factual information only, not to advocate or damn sexuality.[/quote] Teaching about homosexuality doesn't mean you have to say how amazing they are. It is a big part of sexuality, nature and psychology, society, behavioral biology and family living and should be taught on at least these grounds alone. It should also be taught as currently scientifically true (which is that its natural).
[QUOTE=Amplar;32399282]Arithmetic is a factual system of logic. sexuality is human, illogical, and subjective, and is not factually based.[/QUOTE]
There's some pretty gay tigers who want a word with you...
That sounds kinda strange but you get the point...
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32399440]We don't do that for race, do we? We don't teach that blacks exist and let children come up with their own conclusions, we teach that all races are equal. Sexuality is as chosen by the individual as race is so it should be treated exactly the same in the classroom.[/QUOTE]
exactly, but that's because race is not a taboo issue anymore. sexuality is, and a lot of people are more than willing to oppose anyone or anything that accepts it, which frankly, is just disgusting
[QUOTE=Mon;32399465]exactly, but that's because race is not a taboo issue anymore. sexuality is, and a lot of people are more than willing to oppose anyone or anything that accepts it, which frankly, is just disgusting[/QUOTE]
Sexuality is only taboo because people refuse to talk about it, exactly what you're advocating. Essentially your way would ensure that things never change.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32399509]Sexuality is only taboo because people refuse to talk about it, exactly what you're advocating. Essentially your way would ensure that things never change.[/QUOTE]
people are talking about it. we're talking about it right now. i just don't think it would do to put it in schools. you've got all these gullible, malleable kids with their stubborn parents - it's just a breeding ground for a shitstorm.
You're not going to get social progress without social conservatives getting their latent homosexual panties in a twist.
[QUOTE=Mon;32399575]people are talking about it. we're talking about it right now. i just don't think it would do to put it in schools. you've got all these gullible, malleable kids with their stubborn parents - it's just a breeding ground for a shitstorm.[/QUOTE]
The only thing it would be breeding is kids with the information and ability to successfully challenge their bigot parents.
[QUOTE=SomTervo;32396610]no, sexuality isn't a choice.
[editline]20th September 2011[/editline]
[B]genetics determine sexuality[/B], not free will.[/QUOTE]
If you could prove this, you might be a Nobel candidate.
The leading theory is the time at which and the concentration of a certain hormone the developing baby is exposed to while in the womb.
If it was genetic, you'd see patterns emerging.
Nobody really knows what controls peoples' sexual preferences.
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