[QUOTE=Ownederd;45433195]twat is a blatantly sexist word and what he said is pretty much nothing more than a solid example of anita's law in the form of a drive-by comment. why should i even bother to take that comment seriously[/QUOTE]
Well considering he's British he's not actually using it in the context you wished he was. It's used as slang for idiot.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;45432814]you know, people say that online discussions of sexism or misogyny (in any situation or media) quickly results in disproportionate displays of sexism and misogyny
i think they're right in this case, thanks to this wonderful comment[/QUOTE]
Thanks for explaining your case, I really hate it when people just say "x is x don't u guys agree", but you steered clear of that.
[QUOTE=AcidGravy;45432741]Lets just all be honest and establish that most "youtube feminists" are talking out of their arse to take advantage of all the tumblr teenagers that think they're making the world a better place by having a certain biased viewpoint.
And the main problem is that the actual issues feminism stands for isn't being taken seriously because the only feminists that are noticed are the utter twats that spurt shit like this one.[/QUOTE]
Is there something you can find in her videos that counts as an example or her "being a twat spurting shit"?
You may disagree with her premise but that's a far cry from being factually inaccurate.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45434029]Is there something you can find in her videos that counts as an example or her "being a twat spurting shit"?
You may disagree with her premise but that's a far cry from being factually inaccurate.[/QUOTE]
She tends to miss the point of very basic plot points or gameplay elements by a wide margin and does so very frequently, when she doesn't just outright ignore certain elements of a game to focus on what's convenient to her.
Like how she calls Jenny from The Darkness a basic sexual object that's only here to justify the main character's actions. You never have sex with Jenny in The Darkness, she's not even your girlfriend, and she gets shot in the face because the main character fucked up - her death is a consequence of the story's development, not the starting point. Yet Anita still said in her first video (or second, can't remember) of the series that Jenny falls in the damsel in distress trope and that she serves no other purpose than to give the main character a reason to be pissed off, it's a blatant misinterpretation of the character and story based on what she saw on the internet rather than her own experience with the game, and if she actually played the game and all she remembered from Jenny is that she gets shot in the face at some point, then she's not very good at paying attention.
As for ignoring certain elements of a game to only pick the convenient parts, see her latest video when she mentions that Hitman has a prompt where you can push the body of a dead stripper down a ledge to attract attention and she actually tries to prove that this prompt alone turns women into gameplay elements and only that, forgetting the fact that in Hitman, using either living or dead people as distraction is entirely part of the gameplay. Being able to dump the corpse of a dead stripper down a ledge to get the attention of a cop isn't sexist in a game where that sort of shit is possible with everyone.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45434029]Is there something you can find in her videos that counts as an example or her "being a twat spurting shit"?
You may disagree with her premise but that's a far cry from being factually inaccurate.[/QUOTE]
The GTA thing for one
anyone who looks like they'd have money has money on them generally speaking, it's a grandiose parody of things that is subtle enough some people forget it's a parody
I personally wouldn't call her a twat. Just a bad writer/talking head. But that's a pretty hefty insult when that's the thing you do for a living.
[QUOTE=lazyguy;45433630]I can't take Anita seriously because whenever I see those huge earrings I can't help but imagine them getting caught on something, and I have to turn the video off before my stomach does a somersault.[/QUOTE] Anita's videos are pretty bad but this is a pretty pathetic reason not take her seriously.
As far as the video goes it addresses a side of feminism I especially don't like. The side that wants to ban prostitution because of how it exploits women and somehow reinforces some kind of vague idea of patriarchy , refusing to even acknowledge the probability that a woman might find opportunity, enjoyment and even empowerment from [I]choosing[/I] to make a living by providing sexual services.
[QUOTE=AcidGravy;45432741]Lets just all be honest and establish that most "youtube feminists" are talking out of their arse to take advantage of all the tumblr teenagers that think they're making the world a better place by having a certain biased viewpoint.
And the main problem is that the actual issues feminism stands for isn't being taken seriously because the only feminists that are noticed are the utter twats that spurt shit like this one.[/QUOTE]
I honestly have never found a good youtube channel dedicated to feminism. Good channels from people who identify as feminists but no good youtube feminists.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;45432814]you know, people say that online discussions of sexism or misogyny (in any situation or media) quickly results in disproportionate displays of sexism and misogyny.[/QUOTE]
There is really no question that there sexism in games and to an extent gaming culture but she almost never points any of the real stuff out in her series. She manufactures examples of sexism and misrepresents situations in the games that aren't even sexist at all to fit her narrative.
Her videos inspire some good discussion but she's without a doubt a fraud catering to a tumblr feminist audience. The type that throw money at stuff like Dashcon.
[QUOTE=Nukefuzz;45433245]But she doesn't allow comments on her youtube videos? The place where it could be... you know. Discussed?[/QUOTE]
youtube is a terrible place to have any kind of discussion. unlike forums there's basically no structure and comments are displayed based on their ratings and shit, and there's really no way to stay in a discussion.
we're literally talking about her videos HERE. people are talking about her videos on reddit, 4chan, neogaf, facebook, twitter, tumblr, blogspot, and virtually every gaming forum on the internet.
if the channel was going out of its way to remove [I]certain[/I] comments based on their arguments, then yeah, that'd be censorship. this isn't. removing a facet for discussion that is almost 100% of the time really terrible and dumb to use isn't censorship.
I wonder what the likes bar would look like if people could rate the video.
[QUOTE=Nukefuzz;45433245]But she doesn't allow comments on her youtube videos? The place where it could be... you know. Discussed?[/QUOTE]
To give Anita credit where it's due, the comment section of her youtube videos are literally always flooded with death threats, rape threats, dumb fucking comments and other idiocy. The comment system of Youtube is terrible for proper conversation, and the way ratings are handled means that basically the only comments that will be highlighted are the negative ones.
If you want a decent debate youtube and twitter aren't exactly the places to look.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;45434543]youtube is a terrible place to have any kind of discussion. unlike forums there's basically no structure and comments are displayed based on their ratings and shit, and there's really no way to stay in a discussion.[/QUOTE]
Its pretty easy to follow a discussion on youtube because of notifications.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45434554]I wonder what the likes bar would look like if people could rate the video.[/QUOTE]
same way they look on any popular video that gets raided by angry forum users: not representative of the video's quality and not even worthy of discussion in a thread like this
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45434560]Its pretty easy to follow a discussion on youtube because of notifications.[/QUOTE]
It's a fucking nightmare from my experience. Responding to someone else's comment will lead to you getting notifications EVERY TIME someone responds to the original comment, even if you were responding to one of the responses (and if you actually get a response, you're not getting a notification).
Like I'm still getting notifications from a comment I posted literally a month ago, and none of the notifications even concern me. Youtube's comment section is broken as fuck.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45434576]It's a fucking nightmare from my experience. Responding to someone else's comment will lead to you getting notifications EVERY TIME someone responds to the original comment, even if you were responding to one of the responses (and if you actually get a response, you're not getting a notification).
Like I'm still getting notifications from a comment I posted literally a month ago, and none of the notifications even concern me. Youtube's comment section is broken as fuck.[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://plus.google.com/settings?hl=en"]You can turn that off:[/URL]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/cvKMuZy.png[/img]
It's much nicer than the previous system.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45434576]It's a fucking nightmare from my experience. Responding to someone else's comment will lead to you getting notifications EVERY TIME someone responds to the original comment, even if you were responding to one of the responses (and if you actually get a response, you're not getting a notification).
Like I'm still getting notifications from a comment I posted literally a month ago, and none of the notifications even concern me. Youtube's comment section is broken as fuck.[/QUOTE]
Also if you actually make videos on youtube you'll get a shitton of notifications from that making it even harder to follow. Just now I tried to see if I've gotten any replies on a comment I made a while ago and I can't because I'm getting notifications about people commenting on my video, sharing my video, and doing a bunch of other weird shit on google+. If youtube had actual [I]threads[/I] like this forum right here or a less terrible way of displaying comments it'd be fine, but it's stupid.
Also you gotta consider that her videos get like a [I]quarter of a MILLION[/I] viewers on average; that many people cannot possible have a structured conversation, which is why navigating to other sites (which pretty much everybody already has up in a separate tab anyways) is the best way to talk about this.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;45433401]You say it's at such a low level but it's obviously not when so many people deny basic ideas like the relationship between the subject and an object.
Examining tropes is a pretty established way of critiquing media. I also don't understand what those examples have anything to do with the context of her points. Mind citing a more specific example?[/QUOTE]
Many people do understand that relationship, and they understand that if one in a relationship has agency, it does not automatically mean the one being acted upon is lacking in agency as a subject-object relationship is not the only kind of relationship. That's the issue, she tells the basic idea of the subject-object in a simple way, but then leaps to examples which are arguable at best. It results in the basics being explained poorly and examples given that require the audience to put it in context when they may not even have that context.
Tropes aren't a good method for critique, they assume that works are constricted by tropes and adhere to them rather than using them for the works own purposes. The tropes and patterns are more a constant to see how each work changes them and the entire point is subverting or modifying them to create something new rather than playing them straight every time. Not to mention doing a broad analysis of tropes and thinking they are more important than the context they are in often misses this subversion as many people have pointed out.
The logic of those examples is that obviously killing people is bad, but in certain circumstances such as war or euthanasia it can be justifiable or even a good thing. When you take a trope such as Damsel in Distress on its own in a sterile environment, it is easy to say it's bad and sexist or whatever. But when you put it in context, it can be nothing compared to a larger childhood fantasy theme such as in Mario, or completely subverted in all but the base act. Because of this it's an incredibly unreliable way of analysing works and is bordering on a logical fallacy, it's no wonder there's so much criticism with such a massive flaw in her methodology.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45434268]She tends to miss the point of very basic plot points or gameplay elements by a wide margin and does so very frequently, when she doesn't just outright ignore certain elements of a game to focus on what's convenient to her.
Like how she calls Jenny from The Darkness a basic sexual object that's only here to justify the main character's actions. You never have sex with Jenny in The Darkness, she's not even your girlfriend, and she gets shot in the face because the main character fucked up - her death is a consequence of the story's development, not the starting point. Yet Anita still said in her first video (or second, can't remember) of the series that Jenny falls in the damsel in distress trope and that she serves no other purpose than to give the main character a reason to be pissed off, it's a blatant misinterpretation of the character and story based on what she saw on the internet rather than her own experience with the game, and if she actually played the game and all she remembered from Jenny is that she gets shot in the face at some point, then she's not very good at paying attention.
As for ignoring certain elements of a game to only pick the convenient parts, see her latest video when she mentions that Hitman has a prompt where you can push the body of a dead stripper down a ledge to attract attention and she actually tries to prove that this prompt alone turns women into gameplay elements and only that, forgetting the fact that in Hitman, using either living or dead people as distraction is entirely part of the gameplay. Being able to dump the corpse of a dead stripper down a ledge to get the attention of a cop isn't sexist in a game where that sort of shit is possible with everyone.[/QUOTE]
This is my biggest gripe with her. Her concerns are perfectly legitimate, but her examples usually aren't. It's almost like she's completely missed the point the devs try to make, then explains her side as if nobody understood it either.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45434268]She tends to miss the point of very basic plot points or gameplay elements by a wide margin and does so very frequently, when she doesn't just outright ignore certain elements of a game to focus on what's convenient to her.
Like how she calls Jenny from The Darkness a basic sexual object that's only here to justify the main character's actions. You never have sex with Jenny in The Darkness, she's not even your girlfriend, and she gets shot in the face because the main character fucked up - her death is a consequence of the story's development, not the starting point. Yet Anita still said in her first video (or second, can't remember) of the series that Jenny falls in the damsel in distress trope and that she serves no other purpose than to give the main character a reason to be pissed off, it's a blatant misinterpretation of the character and story based on what she saw on the internet rather than her own experience with the game, and if she actually played the game and all she remembered from Jenny is that she gets shot in the face at some point, then she's not very good at paying attention.
As for ignoring certain elements of a game to only pick the convenient parts, see her latest video when she mentions that Hitman has a prompt where you can push the body of a dead stripper down a ledge to attract attention and she actually tries to prove that this prompt alone turns women into gameplay elements and only that, forgetting the fact that in Hitman, using either living or dead people as distraction is entirely part of the gameplay. Being able to dump the corpse of a dead stripper down a ledge to get the attention of a cop isn't sexist in a game where that sort of shit is possible with everyone.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on the Hitman thing but I think Jenny in The Darkness is sort of a trope, maybe not a damsel in distress, but definitely a woman used to further the plot and not much else.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45434406]The GTA thing for one
anyone who looks like they'd have money has money on them generally speaking, it's a grandiose parody of things that is subtle enough some people forget it's a parody
I personally wouldn't call her a twat. Just a bad writer/talking head. But that's a pretty hefty insult when that's the thing you do for a living.[/QUOTE]
This I have to totally disagree with you on, it's a valid complaint in GTA because there simply aren't any male prostitutes in the game world. That's a decision someone had to actively make at some point.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45434976]maybe not a damsel in distress, but definitely a woman used to further the plot and not much else.
[/QUOTE]
Isn't that just a character that dies? Is Jenkins sexist against men because he just dies in the beginning of Mass Effect? I get that too many games use a girlfriend plot hook for no reason, but saying "This character is X gender and their death furthers the plot, ergo it's sexist" seems dumb.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45434976]
This I have to totally disagree with you on, it's a valid complaint in GTA because there simply aren't any male prostitutes in the game world. That's a decision someone had to actively make at some point.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps because GTA is trying to represent a lampoonish but sort of realistic depiction of a place where there are significantly more female prostitutes than male prostitutes.
[QUOTE=Swilly;45433671]The issue is that you are being invaded, especially if you're passionate about that form of media. Just think for a moment and remember that fights over pre-made gaming machines occurs that get boiled down to little detail facts to somehow one up the other.
This exists in almost all mediums, but because Videogames right now [B]the[/B] singular form of media because it converges visual and auditory methods of representing and object(s) or issue(s).
This is a fight that's been happening in all other forms of media but for many Millennials, videogames and the internet are their main source of media, cultural involvement. They grew up with the Videogame/internet explosion of the 90s. Videogames and the internet grew up along side them.
This is their childhood, this is their teenage years. They look back at these fondly to come poking feels more like a bullet or a dagger through the heart.[/QUOTE]
We can either win this war or lose it, Amito drew first blood, but we don't forget. We don't forgive. Watch out Arnita Starkissian.
[QUOTE=lazyguy;45433630]I can't take Anita seriously because whenever I see those huge earrings I can't help but imagine them getting caught on something, and I have to turn the video off before my stomach does a somersault.[/QUOTE]
I can't take her seriously because her eyebrows make me laugh.
160K so Anita can tell us what she read on TV Tropes.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;45432814]you know, people say that online discussions of sexism or misogyny (in any situation or media) quickly results in disproportionate displays of sexism and misogyny
i think they're right in this case, thanks to this wonderful comment[/QUOTE]
Hi Andrew Dobson
[QUOTE=Ownederd;45432814]you know, people say that online discussions of sexism or misogyny (in any situation or media) quickly results in disproportionate displays of sexism and misogyny
i think they're right in this case, thanks to this wonderful comment[/QUOTE]
are you guys for real
I can't think of a single -ism where, when discussed, doesn't lead to disproportionate displays of that -ism
is the law meant to be "discussions of a subject often lead to the views of extremists in that subject being loudly proclaimed"?
if so, well done you've basically described every discussion of inequality ever
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45434976]I agree with you on the Hitman thing but I think Jenny in The Darkness is sort of a trope, maybe not a damsel in distress,[b] but definitely a woman used to further the plot and not much else.[/b]
This I have to totally disagree with you on, it's a valid complaint in GTA because there simply aren't any male prostitutes in the game world. That's a decision someone had to actively make at some point.[/QUOTE]
I feel we are reaching a point where people don't know what they want, what exactly is wrong with having a women to further the plot like Jenny in The Darkness? I don't understand many of these types of critics, should every character be a perfect special snow flake?
If there isn't any female characters, it's bad because there isn't female characters, if you have female characters, it's bad because they aren't X,Y,Z or whatever you had in mind. It's impossible to please you guys.
About the prostitutes, how often do you see male prostitutes? Is it really a good place to spend the budget?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45434976]I agree with you on the Hitman thing but I think Jenny in The Darkness is sort of a trope, maybe not a damsel in distress, but definitely a woman used to further the plot and not much else.
[/QUOTE]
Jenny is literally the center of the plot of both games, have you actually played them ?
Oh and literally everything is a trope. Because part of a story uses of a trope doesn't mean it's bad because then literally every single piece of media in history would suck.
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45434976]This I have to totally disagree with you on, it's a valid complaint in GTA because there simply aren't any male prostitutes in the game world. That's a decision someone had to actively make at some point.[/QUOTE]
Um, maybe it's because male prostitutes aren't known to hang out literally in the street waiting for a client to show up like female prostitutes do ?
You sound [url=http://dudeimachick.blogspot.fr/2013/10/the-gta-v-tranny-outrage.html]like that blogger[/url] right now.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;45434543]youtube is a terrible place to have any kind of discussion. unlike forums there's basically no structure and comments are displayed based on their ratings and shit, and there's really no way to stay in a discussion.
we're literally talking about her videos HERE. people are talking about her videos on reddit, 4chan, neogaf, facebook, twitter, tumblr, blogspot, and virtually every gaming forum on the internet.
if the channel was going out of its way to remove [I]certain[/I] comments based on their arguments, then yeah, that'd be censorship. this isn't. removing a facet for discussion that is almost 100% of the time really terrible and dumb to use isn't censorship.[/QUOTE]
If she wanted to foster discussion she could provide links to an existing forum/blog/subreddit/whatever and let it happen there, but once again her show was never about discussion, it was always about ramming her opinion down everyone's throats. She has a Communications degree, she knows she is controlling the flow of information, and due to her popularity and free advertisement it is taking a veritable army of people to counter the retarded opinion of one person, and it's still not enough (not that people like you and Ownered are helping at all, seriously would you guys just admit already that she is consistantly wrong?)
I've seen the majority of the videos she made for that Feminist Frequency and I've also seen other videos of her talking about things she knows nothing about. I've also looked at her Kickstarter page and from all of that I just gather she's just done super well for herself, the backlash she received got her a ton of sympathy from big game developers. Her kickstarter doesn't even oblige to do anything, so she's got a ton of cash for talking about something she cares little for/ knows nothing about.
What I want to see happen is people actually just ignore stupid things like that and report them if they're trying to scam people out of money.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;45434976]I agree with you on the Hitman thing but I think Jenny in The Darkness is sort of a trope, maybe not a damsel in distress, but definitely a woman used to further the plot and not much else.[/QUOTE]
Except they show many scenes with Jenny in the first and second games where all you do is just, hang out, watch old movies and talk about stuff. Nothing really sexualized, more like two friends hanging out with each other. Which really gets me because the first game was probably the first game to show an actual real relationship that was believable between a man and a woman.
Oh and these scenes serve no real purpose other than characterize Jackie and Jenny
[QUOTE=Nukefuzz;45433245]But she doesn't allow comments on her youtube videos? The place where it could be... you know. Discussed?[/QUOTE]
Bringin' this out again
[url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comicsandcosplay/comics/critical-miss/10303-The-Great-Debate][img]http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/472/472870.jpg[/img][/url]
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