[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45440898]You don't exactly need 160 000 dollars for a video series where literally all you have to do that costs money is capture video game footage, capture your own voice, and edit it together. Hell, you don't even need the 5000 dollars she originally asked for.
The work she's put out so far is pretty damn unimpressive considering how much money she got. Hell, her videos didn't even need to be videos, they could have been proper articles and the result would have been similar.[/QUOTE]
But does it really matter whether or not you need that much money if people are willing to give it to you anyway
[QUOTE=Raidyr;45441105]I wasn't defending Sarkeesian's criticism specifically, I was saying that critics have no obligation to say "Here are films that I have deconstructed and criticized but here are also some films that go against what I'm arguing".
Using your example, a critic of Lovecraft can talk shit all day about Lovecraft but has no obligation to talk about how great unrelated early 20th century short stories are.
That's what Ganerumo and Jackald want; Sarkeesian to balance her criticisms of poor writing in one game with "good" writing in another wholly unrelated game. Again, it's okay for her to do that and again, she did that already in the Tropes series, but she is under no obligation to.
I just don't understand how criticizing a games gameplay or graphics to the absurd level FP likes to take it at times is okay but saying that a character in an old game was a poorly written trope that borders on sexist is somehow not valid.[/QUOTE]
I'm going to be frank, I don't understand it either.
And my point wasn't that you cannot critize without knowing the subject, but your critique is a lot more valid when you go indepth and actually provide evidence. Then its a critique. A critique with no evidence or personal feelings is an opinion, which is entirely valid as well. You're trying to combine the two and that's only creating confusion.
[QUOTE=Jackald;45441144]Well that's the problem with having 1 person being the face of something. Like it or lump it, she's the face of feminism in video games right now, so if she doesn't research her facts, she's representing a lot of people, some of whom i'd wager wouldn't agree with her one-sided opinions.[/QUOTE]
I'm gonna go with concern troll, but if you are genuinely worried about the face of feminism when it comes to video games you don't have to be; it practically doesn't exist.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45440898]You don't exactly need 160 000 dollars for a video series where literally all you have to do that costs money is capture video game footage, capture your own voice, and edit it together. Hell, you don't even need the 5000 dollars she originally asked for.
The work she's put out so far is pretty damn unimpressive considering how much money she got. Hell, her videos didn't even need to be videos, they could have been proper articles and the result would have been similar.[/QUOTE]
Hey dude. Did you back this kickstarter? If you backed it then it might be appropriate for you to complain about the way the money was spent but if you didn't back it could you just, like, not care instead of caring super hard?
Like can't people just be like "i personally disagree/have some problems with this video series but I acknowledge it's right to exist" and then totally [i]not[/i] participate in endless arguments about it?
I actually know the answer to that question (the mere idea of women talking about sexism in video games is offensive to some people regardless of the form or content of the discussion) I'm just asking it rhetorically in the hopes that some people might reappraise their priorities.
[QUOTE=Manibogi;45432945]Can anyone explain to me how he was being sexist/misogynist? He called others out on only paying attention to the dumb "feminists" instead of the actual feminists, which is actually a huge, real problem.
Ownederd, I know you have a hard time using certain words you see in the internet as something other than buzzwords, but please, look up the meaning of sexism and misogyny, because they don't actually stand for what you think they stand for.[/QUOTE]
if you dont unconditionally support feminists in every situation you are a misogynist i guess
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;45441112]But does it really matter whether or not you need that much money if people are willing to give it to you anyway[/QUOTE]
people do videos the same quality as hers for free and at a much faster pace
if she really cared about getting the message out and not about profit, she could easily have done it
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;45441112]But does it really matter whether or not you need that much money if people are willing to give it to you anyway[/QUOTE]
as far as i know you can't turn a kickstarter off without cancelling it (and no sensible adult with bills to pay would think of that anyway) so how much money was spent on this series is basically the stupidest conversation imaginable. The kickstarter was for 6,000, she got 160,000 instead. Nobody is under any obligation to find pyrotechnics and motorcycle stunts to waste money on when their kickstarter blows past all funding expectations. Good lord.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45441178]Hey dude. Did you back this kickstarter? If you backed it then it might be appropriate for you to complain about the way the money was spent but if you didn't back it could you just, like, not care instead of caring super hard?
Like can't people just be like "i personally disagree/have some problems with this video series but I acknowledge it's right to exist" and then totally [I]not[/I] participate in endless arguments about it?
I actually know the answer to that question (the mere idea of women talking about sexism in video games is offensive to some people regardless of the form or content of the discussion) I'm just asking it rhetorically in the hopes that some people might reappraise their priorities.[/QUOTE]
So you cant be mad that she most likely pocketed money just because you didnt back? Its obvious to anyone with a brain doing this series does not cost this much, let alone the fact she only released a few videos in over a year.
Before anyone says she needed to buy new shit, the camera quality, and some backdrop, and already having access to an editor(her pre-tropes videos all have editing and were not funding) are all the same.
Shes a scam and a snake, just using an extremely easy and exploitable audience, hell look at ownered, spouting buzzwords and using them wrong like its his job to defend Anita.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45441178]
Like can't people just be like "i personally disagree/have some problems with this video series but I acknowledge it's right to exist" and then totally [i]not[/i] participate in endless arguments about it?
[/QUOTE]
This sums up what I've been circling around. I'd like to see way more discussion about parts of her videos that you can actually hash out with people and less of generalist "It's not valid criticism ergo I have no plans to actually entertain any conversation about it other than it sucks."
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45441217]So you cant be mad that she most likely pocketed money just because you didnt back? Its obvious to anyone with a brain doing this series does not cost this much, let alone the fact she only released a few videos in over a year.
Before anyone says she needed to buy new shit, the camera quality, and some backdrop, and already having access to an editor(her pre-tropes videos all have editing and were not funding) are all the same.
Shes a scam and a snake, just using an extremely easy and exploitable audience, hell look at ownered, spouting buzzwords and using them wrong like its his job to defend Anita.[/QUOTE]
do you really expect kickstarter to be static or predictable most of the time
I have already posted a fat slab of text about why exactly her videos are bad on many levels, do I really need to quote myself every page ?
[QUOTE=Bazsil;45441192]people do videos the same quality as hers for free and at a much faster pace
if she really cared about getting the message out and not about profit, she could easily have done it[/QUOTE]
why can't she care about both lol
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45441217]So you cant be mad that she most likely pocketed money just because you didnt back? Its obvious to anyone with a brain doing this series does not cost this much, let alone the fact she only released a few videos in over a year.[/QUOTE]
No, you can't be mad, because that's how kickstarter works. Kickstarter isn't an investment firm, nobody owes you a return proportional to your investment. If I donate a million dollars to a $1000 kickstarter for an album that doesn't mean the band has to fly to the moon to record it. I'm hazarding a guess that you didn't even back this kickstarter so it's pretty obvious that your malcontent about something which has no impact on you is coming from [i]some other[/i] place.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45441243]I have already posted a fat slab of text about why exactly her videos are bad on many levels, do I really need to quote myself every page ?[/QUOTE]
Despite disagreeing with your points about what constitutes legitimate or valid criticism, the post you made earlier about Hitman and Darkness II were ones that I find actually contribute to the discussion. Basically you aren't who I'm talking about.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45441243]I have already posted a fat slab of text about why exactly her videos are bad on many levels, do I really need to quote myself every page ?[/QUOTE]
yeah I'm more interested in what it is that motivates you to, apropos of nothing, post big fat slabs of text about a youtube series
It's funny because speaking in general I'd agree with just about every criticism of Kickstarter and crowdfunding that comes up but here in Sarkeesian threads it so obviously comes from a disingenuous position.
Hooded, how do you feel about Star Citizen?
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45441217]So you cant be mad that she most likely pocketed money[/QUOTE]
"most likely"
Like I said earlier, either Sarkeesian is a fraud and a cheat and a snake or a charlatan, or she makes videos slowly and inefficiently. You can't have both criticisms.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45441265]yeah I'm more interested in what it is that motivates you to, apropos of nothing, post big fat slabs of text about a youtube series[/QUOTE]
Because I just happen to have an opinion on the matter, I just happen to have spare time, and I just happen to like sharing well constructed opinions on what I have watched on a thread that is literally about that ?
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45441265]yeah I'm more interested in what it is that motivates you to, apropos of nothing, post big fat slabs of text about a youtube series[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's apropos of nothing. He simply played the Darkness 2 and Hitman and wants to comment about how Sarkeesian gets it wrong. A big fat slab of text is a lot more appealing. than driveby shitposting about kickstarter or feminism or tumblr SJW's or whatever.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45441178]Hey dude. Did you back this kickstarter? If you backed it then it might be appropriate for you to complain about the way the money was spent but if you didn't back it could you just, like, not care instead of caring super hard?
Like can't people just be like "i personally disagree/have some problems with this video series but I acknowledge it's right to exist" and then totally [i]not[/i] participate in endless arguments about it?
I actually know the answer to that question (the mere idea of women talking about sexism in video games is offensive to some people regardless of the form or content of the discussion) I'm just asking it rhetorically in the hopes that some people might reappraise their priorities.[/QUOTE]
What does this have to do with anything? There's a reason her videos aren't private, they weren't made just for the people who backed the kickstarter - anybody can discuss it or care about it as much as they want whether they backed it or not.
Why would it bother you if somebody cares about this subject despite not dropping money on it
Isn't her boyf a con-artist?
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45441178]Hey dude. Did you back this kickstarter? If you backed it then it might be appropriate for you to complain about the way the money was spent but if you didn't back it could you just, like, not care instead of caring super hard?
Like can't people just be like "i personally disagree/have some problems with this video series but I acknowledge it's right to exist" and then totally [i]not[/i] participate in endless arguments about it?
I actually know the answer to that question (the mere idea of women talking about sexism in video games is offensive to some people regardless of the form or content of the discussion) I'm just asking it rhetorically in the hopes that some people might reappraise their priorities.[/QUOTE]
You can't criticize something apparently because you never paid for it despite it well being public??
[QUOTE=Raidyr;45440386]TWho is "they"? Sarkeesian's videos don't portray individual games as being constructed out of tropes, just that tropes are a part of games so lets point them out and see how writing could be improved. She doesn't always get it right but you seem to be misunderstanding the basic reasoning behind her content. Especially starting off with "Tropes aren't a good method of critique". She isn't criticizing games for having tropes; she is criticizing tropes for being simplistic.
Again, you seem to be misunderstanding what a trope actually is. Tropes don't become not-tropes (and thus, not valid) because they happen to take place in a childhood fantasy story.
If you are viewing Sarkeesians videos as a criticism against video games and not as a criticism against bad writing in video games, then that is you misinterpreting it.[/QUOTE]
"They" are tropes, and criticising them for being simplistic when you strip away everything in the work but a bare act which fits into the trope is stupid. That's the problem with analysing tropes rather than the whole works, you miss any real critique to focus on one small aspect that fits your larger pattern, forest for the trees and all that.
They might not become not-tropes, but they do become meaningless where the larger narrative goes in a completely different direction. Do you think people critique films by listing off the TvTropes page, or do they look at the bigger picture and how it all flows together? Tropes are such a limited aspect of storytelling to examine and they are not inherently good or bad. Criticising them won't create better writing, they are just tools and knowing how to use them will improve writing, but setting up a list of Tropes which you don't like will only cause writing to be bad in a different direction.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;45441285]It's funny because speaking in general I'd agree with just about every criticism of Kickstarter and crowdfunding that comes up but here in Sarkeesian threads it so obviously comes from a disingenuous position.
Hooded, how do you feel about Star Citizen?
"most likely"
Like I said earlier, either Sarkeesian is a fraud and a cheat and a snake or a charlatan, or she makes videos slowly and inefficiently. You can't have both criticisms.[/QUOTE]
Im very cautiously optimistic with star citizen, , I dont think its a scam, but I do think after reading a lot of the shit and seeing what they want that its pretty fucking bold and A LOT can go wrong and end up disappointing people. I want it badly to be as good as they say, but im not holding my breath. If its shit I think its gonna be more from incompetent and glossy eyed devs, and less of them just trying to take money from people.
Also you can make a shit product and still take money, being both a scam+slow/bad videos, like Yogventures, and those wrist bands with magic hologram stickers that cure cancer and make you better at sports.
Actually what you could say Anita is doing is identical to what happens with some movies, easy example is Jack and Jill, insane fucking budget, extremely shit, low effort, low quality movie, take the rest of the money you didnt spend.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45434498]
Her videos inspire some good discussion but she's without a doubt a fraud catering to a tumblr feminist audience. The type that throw money at stuff like Dashcon.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45441265]yeah I'm more interested in what it is that motivates you to, apropos of nothing, post big fat slabs of text about a youtube series[/QUOTE]
[I]Discussing things on an internet forum is for nerds lol. You guys must have no life or something.[/I] These videos are about videogames and.. this is a videogame forum.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45440898]
The work she's put out so far is pretty damn unimpressive considering how much money she got. Hell, her videos didn't even need to be videos, they could have been proper articles and the result would have been similar.[/QUOTE]
She took a selfie of herself with a massive pile of consoles and over a hundred games... and than when she actually made the videos she stole (no permission) youtube lets play footage. It seems like she doesn't even play the games she's discussing herself. The fact is is that she knows where money and attention is. Kotaku/Tumblr feminists who want to be victims to feel like they're part of something.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45441243]I have already posted a fat slab of text about why exactly her videos are bad on many levels, do I really need to quote myself every page ?[/QUOTE]
Yes, you do, because neither side is willing to actually read and internalise any sensible point maid by the other.
Brand new words of wisdom from Feminist Frequency.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ROAUnIK.png[/IMG]
Anita Sarkeesian has some good starting points but they are often underseveloped and she forgets context within the situation. I believe there is definitely misogny in the entertainment indistry and more so in video games being a previously male demographic. Her problem is that she under researches a lot of her topics. I would love to see a new feminist face for this particular topic that provides better research and presentation without relying on tropes alone.
[QUOTE=omarfr;45443506]Anita Sarkeesian has some good starting points but they are often underseveloped and she forgets context within the situation. I believe there is definitely misogny in the entertainment indistry and more so in video games being a previously male demographic. Her problem is that she under researches a lot of her topics. I would love to see a new feminist face for this particular topic that provides better research and presentation without relying on tropes alone.[/QUOTE]
One thing I'd really love is for more people to respond to Anita's videos in a not terrible and condescending way like thunderf00t and all those morons.
Fortunately, we've got tooltime9901!
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjJBMfoN6GI[/media]
This is just the intro video, but he's got a ton of videos on this topic. In order to not blow up the thread I'll just link to one of my favorites instead of all of them.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu-0jEhavOs[/media]
I think the best way to sum up Tropes vs. Women as a series is that even if it completely misses its intended target it's still definitely shooting in the right direction.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45443478]Brand new words of wisdom from Feminist Frequency.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ROAUnIK.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
This line of reasoning never sits well with me. Sure, succubi aren't realistic, but that's one of the things which are implicitly and deliberately different from reality.
The Witcher team didn't set out to make their world's gender politics different to reality in the same way they didn't set out to make the weather work differently. One assumes these things work the same in the game/film/book as they do in reality because there's nothing to make you assume otherwise.
It's like with TES, no one has any problems with dragons flying around, with hermaphroditic demigods, or interdimensional portals, and yet people look at how guards will shrug off an arrow puncturing their skill as ridiculous.
That other Tweet.
To be fair.. the Witcher series is kind of sexist and homophobic but its a medieval setting so it makes sense.
Witch 2
[sp]Female magicians wrecking shit and controlling politics, being dragons and leading revolutionary egalitarian nations based on tolerance, etc...[/sp]
[sp]What was the point of making the only gay character evil? Forgot his name but his balls get cut off.[/sp]
[editline]19th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;45443612]One thing I'd really love is for more people to respond to Anita's videos in a not terrible and condescending way like thunderf00t and all those morons.
[/QUOTE]
What? Thunderf00t addresses her points and points out her lies/mistakes. The mocking tone in his videos are justified in his videos.
Just like solar roadways we have a huge pile of money gained through misleading people and flawed ideas.
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