• The Rising Korean Conflict
    241 replies, posted
[QUOTE=L0LIMB0RED;22169366]There's no way in hell the US would wipe out the PLA in just a few weeks. And there's a reason Middle Eastern armies get run over by Western armies. Read [url=http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars]Why Arabs Lose Wars.[/url] China is not like that.[/QUOTE] You can even check the power ranking website. China has good tech, sure. They may have good tanks, but what does that matter if the US has tanks just as good, but 10 times as many? China is catching up on the world power scale, and is in second place, but theres still almost 700 billion dollars worth of difference in their armies. The USA has more technology and weapons, basically more quality and more of everything. All China has more of is men and rifles, with hasty training. As my history teacher mentioned many times, the USA can hold China at bay using only their aircraft carriers and submarines.
[QUOTE=Teh Soviet;22169463]You can even check the power ranking website. China has good tech, sure. They may have good tanks, but what does that matter if the US has tanks just as good, but 10 times as many? China is catching up on the world power scale, and is in second place, but theres still almost 700 billion dollars worth of difference in their armies. The USA has more technology and weapons, basically more quality and more of everything. All China has more of is men and rifles, with hasty training. As my history teacher mentioned many times, the USA can hold China at bay using only their aircraft carriers and submarines.[/QUOTE] The PRC has no aircraft carriers and the average PLA infantryman is a far cry from the guy who fought UN forces back in the 1950s. Don't forget that the PLA is well on its way on becoming a US-style "quality" force supported by technology than what it was nearly 30 years ago.
Exactly. They have no Aircraft carriers, but USA does. Aircraft carriers are one of the deadliest weapons a military can have.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;22164757]A baby with a gun can still kill. [editline]08:11PM[/editline] You really shouldn't underestimate the North Koreans. Also saying that they are 5'2 is completely irrelevant.[/QUOTE] Please do explain how a baby could possibly take the trigger lock and/or safety off of a firearm that has one. If a baby killed someone it would be a fucking freak accident. Therefore when you compare a baby to the North Korean army, the Korean Army wouldn't kill anyone unless they were extremely lucky. I think they deserve to be steamrolled even if it is at the cost of a few lives. Also if you refer to the Gulf War, I'd say That = This, and we steamrolled there too. On another note the US economy doesn't depend on China for survival. If you didn't know we have just as many if not MORE and more diverse natural resources in general. The only thing supporting the United States is all of the sweat shops building shit out of cheap plastic which we don't need. [b]ACTUALLY I would rather say China is currently HURTING the United States ecomomy by taking MASSIVE amounts of jobs for the production industry. We don't need China, we will never need China. China doesn't import anything of need to the United States[/b]
[QUOTE=Teh Soviet;22169259]Until you realize that in Afghanistan and Iraq we are fighting against insurgents, and the countries' militaries are actually on our side. If you don't understand the "few weeks" thing, think operation desert storm.[/QUOTE] Operation Desert Storm: Iraq: 545,000 20,000-35,000 casualties I don't see the wiping in here. [editline]11:22PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Teh Soviet;22169463] As my history teacher mentioned many times, the USA can hold China at bay using only their aircraft carriers and submarines.[/QUOTE] Yeah, carriers that are being stalked by Chinese submarines. [editline]11:28PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Mikhail;22169689] On another note the US economy doesn't depend on China for survival. If you didn't know we have just as many if not MORE and more diverse natural resources in general. The only thing supporting the United States is all of the sweat shops building shit out of cheap plastic which we don't need. [b]ACTUALLY I would rather say China is currently HURTING the United States ecomomy by taking MASSIVE amounts of jobs for the production industry. We don't need China, we will never need China. China doesn't import anything of need to the United States[/b][/QUOTE] US and China trade is worth over 250$ billion. You need the stuff, stop being ignorant. That's quite a lot of money with just one country. And US owes more than 700$ billion to China.
[QUOTE=Teh Soviet;22169596]Exactly. They have no Aircraft carriers, but USA does. Aircraft carriers are one of the deadliest weapons a military can have.[/QUOTE] They're certainly useful for power projection but given the current state of the US Navy as a supporting arm of ground forces rather than blue water operations they're going to be massively vulnerable to an increasing array of modern anti-ship missiles and submarines. Even former CinC of the US Pacific Fleet Timothy Keating admitted that the ability of the US Navy to defend their carriers against modern weapons is uncertain.
What the fuck is wrong with American news?
I swear to fucking Christ, I'm going to hop on the first plane to SK if they start war again. Godddamn Norths.
[QUOTE=The Grim Reaper;22164524]I LIVE in South Korea and on top of that, I LIVE in Seoul. [/QUOTE] I don't BELIEVE you. :downs:
OK Listen up and listen good. North Korea does this because at the moment her economy is fragile and she needs money from the West. Think about it, you have a economy that needs to change like China has but you need some help and on on top of that you need to remain independent to some degree. You don't want to become China's puppet and you don't want to always rely on the West. So what you do is go through a cycle of creating problems for the regional powers by testing new weapons out, then you get the major worls powers involved. You have then condemn you for a time and they sanction you but then you relent and then play a game of getting negoatation out of them and then you use that money to prop up the state and keep your country ticking over. The reason why Dear Leader has recently being detonating underground atomic weapons is because he was being ingored by all the world powers and his economy was on the edge so he fire them off and suddenly everyone panics. He get everyone's ear and then he gets long term support and sures up relations. What he is also doing is preapring his army for the sucession of his son who will come to lead North Korea when he dies/retires so he needs to show them leadership. So he sometimes makes nasty comments on the world stage. That's why this happens and all this threats is nothing but a show. Iran does this all the time so that is can make people scared of this and create enemies and then make those enemies fuck up on the diplomatic stage by trying to play them offf against each-other. This whole afair that is happening is to kae the world relaise that North Korea can fight and be strong when in relaity the country has limited capabilites for war. it's called diplomatic posturing.
[QUOTE=Teh Soviet;22169463]All China has more of is men and rifles, with hasty training. [/QUOTE] Hey bro, what's it like in the 1970s? This is 2010, the modern PLA is much more than "more men and rifles". The Modern PLA infantryman is as well trained, if not better, than the average US Army or US Marine infantryman.
North Korea: Trolling the world since 1948. Lets look at some fun North Korea facts.... Their national anthem translates to "The Patriotic Song" Their motto is "Strong and Prosperous Nation" Korea has the fourth largest military in the world. Kim Il Sung is dead. And still owns the country. At age 17, everyone in North Korea can vote. Their ballets only have one option Every group of tourists is accompanied by two government guides 37% of children in North Korea are chronically malnourished. 23% are underweight. tl;dr, Kim Jong-Il is running his country like we play Civilization IV.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;22170884]Hey bro, what's it like in the 1970s? This is 2010, the modern PLA is much more than "more men and rifles". The Modern PLA infantryman is as well trained, if not better, than the average US Army or US Marine infantryman.[/QUOTE] Just curious, how do you know?
three of my brothers are in SK [editline]08:26PM[/editline] this sucks
[QUOTE=hansjurgen;22171208]Just curious, how do you know?[/QUOTE] Personal interest in the subject.
[QUOTE=hansjurgen;22171208]Just curious, how do you know?[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, I'm not American, or Chinese, but just HOW IN THE WORLD are they better trained? China has a god damn powerful military, second best in the world. But it CANT compete with the USA. China spends under 100 billion on their military yearly, USA spends 10 times that. US stays on top of technology and training and warfare. China is, a pile of men with rifles. They simply don't have enough actual tanks or aircraft or mortars and large weapons. [editline]12:31AM[/editline] Not to mention the average american (Believe it or not) is a lot more healthy and strong physically than the average Chinese man. The majority of Chinese are poor and live in villages... I studied this in socials, and took it into personal interest as well. Also, were would the Chinese get warfare experience to be able to train their men? US is in wars constantly, keeping their fighting skills in check.
[QUOTE=Teh Soviet;22171289]I'm sorry, I'm not American, or Chinese, but just HOW IN THE WORLD are they better trained? China has a god damn powerful military, second best in the world. But it CANT compete with the USA. China spends under 100 billion on their military yearly, USA spends 10 times that. US stays on top of technology and training and warfare. China is, a pile of men with rifles. They simply don't have enough actual tanks or aircraft or mortars and large weapons.[/QUOTE] Despite popular belief, the PLA has invested quite a bit in "digital battlefield" things like cyber-warfare and C4I. If you think the PLA is just "conscripts with old AKs and T-55s", then you're dead wrong. There's many sites covering the state of the PRC's military, but try [url=http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp]this[/url].
Yeah they're not any old T-55s, they're T-55s with ceramic armor glued to them.
To be honest, there isn't going to be a major conflict between the two nations. Both sides are using this event to better control their population through fear and manipulation. Much like the US is doing.
[QUOTE=Tac Error;22171399]Despite popular belief, the PLA has invested quite a bit in "digital battlefield" things like cyber-warfare and C4I. If you think the PLA is just "conscripts with old AKs and T-55s", then you're dead wrong. There's many sites covering the state of the PRC's military, but try [url=http://www.sinodefence.com/default.asp]this[/url].[/QUOTE] I know China is skilled in Cyber Warfare as they've tried/infiltrated the Pentagon many times.
[QUOTE=Teh Soviet;22171289] Not to mention the average american (Believe it or not) is a lot more healthy and strong physically than the average Chinese man. The majority of Chinese are poor and live in villages... I studied this in socials, and took it into personal interest as well.[/quote] How does this have to do about the state of the PLA? Most of those rural guys aren't even interested in joining the military anyways. [quote]Also, were would the Chinese get warfare experience to be able to train their men? US is in wars constantly, keeping their fighting skills in check.[/QUOTE] Like any military serious about their capability, the PLA constantly trains and exercises and what-not. They also study and analyse very closely ongoing US operations and no doubt that they have learned vital lessons of the strengths, capabilities and weaknesses of the US military.
[QUOTE=Teh Soviet;22171289]I'm sorry, I'm not American, or Chinese, but just HOW IN THE WORLD are they better trained? [/QUOTE] Talking about infantry, the sheer size and influx of recruits in the US army and USMC has caused problems with training rotations and quality/quantity. It's not that the individual infantryman is better or worse, it's that theres a large inconsistencies in quality of training between units. For example, you'll get one unit that is a picture perfect of what a infantry squad/platoon should be and how they should operate, then you'll see another unit that has abysmally poor training and skillsets. If you take a look at some of the boards with verified military/ex-military personnel (like socnet, strategy, militaryphotos.net) they've often had discussions about subjects like "who has the best light infantry" and they'll look at all the factors. Last time the consensus was a tossup between Great Britain and Australia, with Australia narrowly edging it out because they have one of the best Jungle Warfare schools in the world. The US Military is extremely powerful, yes, but "best trained in the world" is hyperbole. Also money spent does not necessarily correlate to increased quality.
[QUOTE=Teh Soviet;22171289]I'm sorry, I'm not American, or Chinese, but just HOW IN THE WORLD are they better trained? China has a god damn powerful military, second best in the world. But it CANT compete with the USA. China spends under 100 billion on their military yearly, USA spends 10 times that. US stays on top of technology and training and warfare. China is, a pile of men with rifles. They simply don't have enough actual tanks or aircraft or mortars and large weapons. [editline]12:31AM[/editline] Not to mention the average american (Believe it or not) is a lot more healthy and strong physically than the average Chinese man. The majority of Chinese are poor and live in villages... I studied this in socials, and took it into personal interest as well. Also, were would the Chinese get warfare experience to be able to train their men? US is in wars constantly, keeping their fighting skills in check.[/QUOTE] Lets not forget where a large chunk of money to pay for all of our nice things come from. Lets also remember that china produces most of our steel. We have a shit ton of stuff on standby but not enough for a full scale war with another superpower. Most wars are won due to one country being able to outproduce another and overwhelm it. My grandfather was in World War 2. He said basic training was pretty much. Heres your gun you point it that way and pull the trigger GOGOGO. The reason we won is because we had so many unemployed people who were willing to work for the war effort.
Gen Wesley, the former commander of NATO believes that this is going to go hot. [editline]08:48PM[/editline] US troops in Korea are being put on Combat Alert. [editline]08:48PM[/editline] I'm going down to the recruitment office the minute this goes hot.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;22171667]Gen Wesley, the former commander of NATO believes that this is going to go hot. [editline]08:48PM[/editline] US troops in Korea are being put on Combat Alert. [editline]08:48PM[/editline] I'm going down to the recruitment office the minute this goes hot.[/QUOTE] Have fun fertilizing plants with your own shit in Nk prison camps. [editline]12:52AM[/editline] I'm not saying anything about suggesting the US attack China! That would be terrible, don't get the wrong idea. I saw some guy post about how China would be able to take out the US and needed to put that out there. And another person who said Nk will be able to hold it's own against Nk, which is definitely false.
[QUOTE=Idi Amin;22171494]Yeah they're not any old T-55s, they're T-55s with ceramic armor glued to them.[/QUOTE] You seriously think the PLA would deploy their oldest tanks in frontline divisions?
Are we on the topic of China now? Their military is equiped, trained and modernized. The old concept of "We have tech and they have numbers." doesn't apply anymore.
[QUOTE=Mexican;22152635]So let's bring chaos to the South? Possible outcomes: South wins after being devastated, North is completely taken over North wins, South is totally fucked And most likely, eventually the two dies agree to stop after devastating each other, the lines on the map move a little, the South is devastated, and the North is still just as bad.[/QUOTE] Well, the mass games definitely show how strict North Korea is. Realistically, North Korea has the discipline to be the ultimate fighting force. For strategy and nationalistic allegiance, South Korea is the victor I think.
[QUOTE=Tukimoshi;22172018] Realistically, North Korea has the discipline to be the ultimate fighting force. [/QUOTE] Not really. Similarly to the article someone posted earlier "why arabs lose wars", their system and rigid discipline doesn't promote thinking outside the box and objective analysis.
I really don't see why China would defend NK since NK produces absolutely nothing of value.
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