[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;36628822]lol people are still responding to fenderson[/QUOTE]
I got nervous. You're dismissing me as a troll because I'm not getting destroying in the debate by posting my "mountain of evidence."
A more appropriate response would be, "I wouldn't go by coincidences, there are a lot of coincidences in the world."
To which I would reply something like, "Sure but not like these."
[editline]4th July 2012[/editline]
I will continue to dump my mountain of evidence.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy7N13XJkaQ[/media]
The collapse of the WTCs were unexpected.
[quote]A number of business leaders who would normally have been in the World Trade Center, were instead at a meeting hosted by Warren Buffett on September 11th at Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha, Nebraska. That group included Anne Tatlock, CEO of Fiduciary Trust Inc., a company that occupied five floors on or above the 90th floor of the South Tower. 2 3 (This is the same Air Force Base that George W. Bush would fly to later that day. It has an underground command center.) 4
San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown admitted to having received a warning from what he described as his airport security late Monday evening, just hours before the attack. 5
Salman Rushdie, who is under the continuous protection of Scotland Yard, was prevented from flying on September 11th, 2001. 6
On 9/11/01, Jim Pierce, cousin of President Bush, was scheduled to attend a conference on the 105th floor of the South Tower, where his company's New York offices were based. But the conference was moved across the street to the Millennium Hotel, because, the story goes, the group was too large. 7 [/quote]
[QUOTE=zydos;36617347]this is the 9/11 thread not the immigration thread
I'm from Canada and trying to fly out of Seattle is a nightmare. Just because my last name isn't English sounding, they feel the need to interrogate me
[editline]4th July 2012[/editline]
and I'm reaaaally white too[/QUOTE]
My name isn't English sounding either. In fact, I would bet that the vast majority of Americans do not have English sounding last names. At least where I live. Everyone is Polish, Irish, Italian, or German. I don't know a single person of English ancestry. Never met one.
[editline]4th July 2012[/editline]
And most of the Italians aren't "really white". They're closer to Arab looking IMO.
[QUOTE=Fenderson;36628871]I got nervous. You're dismissing me as a troll because I'm not getting destroying in the debate by posting my "mountain of evidence."
A more appropriate response would be, "I wouldn't go by coincidences, there are a lot of coincidences in the world."
To which I would reply something like, "Sure but not like these."
[editline]4th July 2012[/editline]
I will continue to dump my mountain of evidence.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy7N13XJkaQ[/media]
The collapse of the WTCs were unexpected.[/QUOTE]
If you stop acting like a troll people will stop treating you like one. I'm surprised you haven't mentioned Marvin Bush yet. Also two things: 1. I can't hear anything in that video, 2. Contrary to your believe: coincidences [i]can[/i] happen.
Funny how when you win a debate people stop replying to you.
[editline]4th July 2012[/editline]
Actually, it's not funny. I just wanted to say that people aren't replying to me because I'm winning the debate.
[QUOTE=Fenderson;36629112]Funny how when you win a debate people stop replying to you.
[editline]4th July 2012[/editline]
Actually, it's not funny. I just wanted to say that people aren't replying to me because I'm winning the debate.[/QUOTE]
Are you reading different posts than the rest of us?
[QUOTE=Fenderson;36628871]A number of business leaders who would normally have been in the World Trade Center, were instead at a meeting hosted by Warren Buffett on September 11th at Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha, Nebraska. That group included Anne Tatlock, CEO of Fiduciary Trust Inc., a company that occupied five floors on or above the 90th floor of the South Tower. 2 3 (This is the same Air Force Base that George W. Bush would fly to later that day. It has an underground command center.) 4
San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown admitted to having received a warning from what he described as his airport security late Monday evening, just hours before the attack. 5
Salman Rushdie, who is under the continuous protection of Scotland Yard, was prevented from flying on September 11th, 2001. 6
On 9/11/01, Jim Pierce, cousin of President Bush, was scheduled to attend a conference on the 105th floor of the South Tower, where his company's New York offices were based. But the conference was moved across the street to the Millennium Hotel, because, the story goes, the group was too large. 7[/QUOTE]
Wait so now you've pulled Warren Buffet and Salman Rushdie into this? What motive could either of them possibly have?
[editline]4th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Fenderson;36629112]Funny how when you win a debate people stop replying to you.
[editline]4th July 2012[/editline]
Actually, it's not funny. I just wanted to say that people aren't replying to me because I'm winning the debate.[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about? What thread are you reading? The last two pages has been nothing but replies to your posts.
[quote]September 11, 2001 (W): Five Israelis are arrested for "puzzling behavior" related to the WTC attacks. They are arrested around 4:30 P.M. after having filmed the burning WTC from the roof of their company's building near Liberty State Park, then shouting in what was interpreted as cries of joy and mockery. They were spotted by a neighbor who called the police and the FBI. The police tracked them down in a van with the words "Urban Moving Systems" written on the side. [ Bergen Record, 9/12/01, Ha'aretz, 9/17/01] One man was found with $4,700 in cash hidden in his sock, another had two passports on him, and a box cutter was found in the van. [ ABC News, 6/21/02] Investigators say that "There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted... It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen." [ Bergen Record, 9/12/01] One of these Israelis later says, "Our purpose was to document the event." [ ABC News, 6/21/02] The FBI later concludes at least two are Mossad agents and that all were on a Mossad surveillance mission. The FBI interrogates them for weeks. [ Forward, 3/15/02] They are held on immigration violation charges and released 71 days later. [ ABC News, 6/21/02] Their names are later identified as Sivan and Paul Kurzberg, Oded Ellner, Omer Marmari and Yaron Shmuel. [ Forward, 3/15/02] [/quote]
[url]http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885&page=1#.T_UPDPVadLo[/url]
Explain this.
You can't.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;36629110]I'm surprised you haven't mentioned Marvin Bush yet.[/QUOTE]
I did. It just goes to show how people immediately dismiss my posts in their bias.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36629141]Wait so now you've pulled Warren Buffet and Salman Rushdie into this? What motive could either of them possibly have?[/quote]
Lets say they were uninvolved, what about Giuliani? He lies several times in that video I posted.
Fenderson's bizarre version of winning a debate; post retarded theories, dismiss all evidence that debunks your retarded theories, admit you are a troll, then pretend you aren't trolling 2 pages later, then claim victory when all the opponents stop responding because you are posting drivel.
[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;36629279]Fenderson's bizarre version of winning a debate; post retarded theories, dismiss all evidence that debunks your retarded theories, admit you are a troll, then pretend you aren't trolling 2 pages later, then claim victory when all the opponents stop responding because you are posting drivel.[/QUOTE]
Did you even read any of it?
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;36628678]I'd consider any relevant information from a reliable source that supports either side of the argument as evidence. Something you have yet to provide.
Also: what's the source on that quote?
Also: unusual doesn't mean things like that never happen, just not always.[/QUOTE]
I'm posting relevant information from reliable, unbiased, sources. If you do not think it is relevant than say so, and I will explain why it is. If I can't then you are winning the debate.
[QUOTE=Fenderson;36629192]Lets say they were uninvolved, what about Giuliani? He lies several times in that video I posted.[/QUOTE]
But they couldn't have possibly been uninvolved. Why else would they not be in the WTC that day? They must have been in on it.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36629365]But they couldn't have possibly been uninvolved. Why else would they not be in the WTC that day? They must have been in on it.[/QUOTE]
They weren't involved.
Now debate everything else instead of picking on the weakest point.
[QUOTE=Fenderson;36629387]They weren't involved.
Now debate everything else instead of picking on the weakest point.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean? I'm supporting you.
I think Warren Buffet and Salman Rushdie conspired together to take down the WTC. Their meetings were cancelled and moved to different buildings. How is this a coincidence? What don't you people see? Buffet had all the money in the world to spend on this operation. And Rushdie is an Indian who is known to have Indian/Middle Eastern connections. Coincidence?
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36629433]What do you mean? I'm supporting you.
I think Warren Buffet and Salman Rushdie conspired together to take down the WTC. Their meetings were cancelled and moved to different buildings. How is this a coincidence? What don't you people see? Buffet had all the money in the world to spend on this operation. And Rushdie is an Indian who is known to have Indian/Middle Eastern connections. Coincidence?[/QUOTE]
Okay now you're just being childish.
(This is the same Air Force Base that George W. Bush would fly to later that day. It has an underground command center.)
An underground command center in an Air Force base? Color me surprised.
[editline]4th July 2012[/editline]
As for the Israelis. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Mossad Intelligence knew of some sort of terrorist attack in New York on 9/11.
[QUOTE=Fenderson;36629457]Okay now you're just being childish.[/QUOTE]
Oh the irony.
Just compare your earlier posts to mine.
[QUOTE=Fenderson;36629192][url]http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885&page=1#.T_UPDPVadLo[/url]
Explain this.
You can't.
I did. It just goes to show how people immediately dismiss my posts in their bias.
[/QUOTE]
I just searched through your posts, this is the first time you've mentioned him, unless it was in your bullshit video which as I said before: has no audio.
As for explanation: there are anti-Americans of every race, from every country. Also could'ave been undercover agents, Israel and groups like Al Qaeda are pretty at-odds with each other so it would make sense they'd try to get men on the inside.
[QUOTE=Fenderson;36628409]Almost all businesses negatively impacted by 911 having a influx of put orders indicates prior knowledge of the attack you thick fuck.[/QUOTE]
terrorists can buy and sell stocks too you irrelevant twat
or maybe it's just a coincidence.
[QUOTE=supersnail11;36630488]terrorists can buy and sell stocks too you irrelevant twat
or maybe it's just a coincidence.[/QUOTE]
It's no coincidence. Buffet and Rushdie had everything planned from the start.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;36583579]I'd say the one lacking a clear understanding of logic is you. I never said it's impossible to prove that something other than a plane hit the pentagon solely because you can't place the plane anywhere else...[/QUOTE] You said that exact thing and jeimizu said that exact thing, but now you're on the same page is me.
The evidence I speak of is hypothetical. I have already stated that I think a plane did hit the Pentagon.
[editline]5th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=SGTSpartans;36586060]Then all those 9/11 families whose relatives were on the plane are just faking that their relatives are dead. That's the biggest problem with that.
Also I read the rest of your post, just wanted to respond to that bit.[/QUOTE]
Why do you assume that keeping the passengers alive would be part of hiding the plane? It would be easier to kill them. Don't ask why, I'm not saying that happened, I'm just saying it's plausible.
[editline]5th July 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=electric926;36599937]If we suppose that 9/11 was done to get involved in the Middle East and make a profit selling weapons (which is a stupid notion by itself)...[/QUOTE]
In you own words, please explain why the US invaded Iraq in 2003.
[QUOTE=Unfrozen;36637883]In you own words, please explain why the US invaded Iraq in 2003.[/QUOTE]
I'll do it for him:
After the first gulf war, the UN made Iraq agree to [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_687"]Resolution 687[/URL]. Not only did it say that he can't have WMDs, but it also said he can't have missles with a range > 150km.
Which he did.
So yeah.
[QUOTE=Unfrozen;36637883]In you own words, please explain why the US invaded Iraq in 2003.[/QUOTE]
The arms trade is the biggest business on the planet. Every president since the 1900's has had backers in the military industrial complex.
Also the Bush family has a lot of oil connections.
And the world bank LOVES rebuilding shit after countries get bombed to smithereens.
fuk automerge
sometimes i wish mass debate had dumb ratings
[editline]6th July 2012[/editline]
anyways yeah they made money but that doesn't mean they were the reason we went
that'd be like saying the reason the titanic was sunk was so someone could find it and get the fame 70 years later
patriot act
[QUOTE=Unfrozen;36637883]
In you own words, please explain why the US invaded Iraq in 2003.[/QUOTE]
We invaded Iraq because we didn't get rid of Saddam Hussein when we won the Persian Gulf War a few years earlier. The claim that Saddam had WMDs was bunk, but isn't it better for everyone involved that the guy isn't kicking anymore?
[QUOTE=Fenderson;36650423]And the world bank LOVES rebuilding shit after countries get bombed to smithereens.[/QUOTE]
The US Army and by extent the US Government shelled out the money to rebuild Iraq. The World Bank is a financial institution that loans money to developing countries independently of the US Government.
How about posting some legitimate evidence or a reliable news source that can justify all the bullshit you've been posting, eh? Seriously, I want to take the time and listen to what you have to say, but you're making it very hard to get your point across.
At first I didnt want to get involved in what is no longer a debate but an argument, but after reading all 9 pages I think I'm ready to respond to my best ability.
My opinion before reading this thread was actually that the government secretly planned and executed the 9/11 attacks and my evidence was the controlled demolition theory, the missile in the Pentagon, the training of the terrorists in America, as well as the Bush family ties to Bin Laden, etc. After reading such a chaotic thread where neither side is treated with respect, I think its best that we find the most reasonable theory from the facts and information given in this thread. For the person who said there is nothing wrong with cursing, it should be known that cursing is not the best way to handle a conversation. I curse a lot in my daily life, but I try to keep it to a minimum especially when trying to make a point with somebody. Besides the rudeness of both sides in this thread, I'll continue with my reasoning.
While it may be ridiculous to blame the entirety of the attacks solely on the government, I think it is much less insane to say that the government handled an unexpected event badly. We fear-mongered to modify policies, invaded the Middle East illegally, and created the longest war in American history. They would eventually use the attacks to beef the TSA, pass the Patriot Act, and I think most recently the NDAA. Fox News will use the attack to cement their opinion in any conversation, report, or interview. You don't like the war? You must love 9/11 then you left-wing communist.
For the theory that a missile struck the Pentagon, I now understand that the debris was legitimate and the camera was simply a bad camera. I think this is the same case with the plane that crashed en route to the White House.
Overall, the attacks were probably genuine but the politics were politics. We invaded the Middle East shortly after, and I do think that this is also a means of making a profit from what has been a religious conflict for hundreds if not thousands of years. The Middle East is a violent, turbulent, and theocratic place which makes it the perfect target for inciting revolution. I read on NPR recently that we are selling weapons to the Syrian rebel forces, and examples like that are what we could be making our money from.
Since it is 5 am I'll try to wrap my post up with as much logical fidelity as I can, because I'm getting a little loopy from sleep deprivation.
I used to think it was an inside job but now I don't because the evidence is clear. 9/11 was a genuine surprise attack that surprised us so much that we landed flat on our asses in blowback. Other than those two points, I think the rest is all up to more debate.
I think threads like these are awesome fun, especially when people get along.
[QUOTE=live4u120;36686430]At first I didnt want to get involved in what is no longer a debate but an argument, but after reading all 9 pages I think I'm ready to respond to my best ability.
My opinion before reading this thread was actually that the government secretly planned and executed the 9/11 attacks and my evidence was the controlled demolition theory, the missile in the Pentagon, the training of the terrorists in America, as well as the Bush family ties to Bin Laden, etc. After reading such a chaotic thread where neither side is treated with respect, I think its best that we find the most reasonable theory from the facts and information given in this thread. For the person who said there is nothing wrong with cursing, it should be known that cursing is not the best way to handle a conversation. I curse a lot in my daily life, but I try to keep it to a minimum especially when trying to make a point with somebody. Besides the rudeness of both sides in this thread, I'll continue with my reasoning.
While it may be ridiculous to blame the entirety of the attacks solely on the government, I think it is much less insane to say that the government handled an unexpected event badly. We fear-mongered to modify policies, invaded the Middle East illegally, and created the longest war in American history. They would eventually use the attacks to beef the TSA, pass the Patriot Act, and I think most recently the NDAA. Fox News will use the attack to cement their opinion in any conversation, report, or interview. You don't like the war? You must love 9/11 then you left-wing communist.
Allowing the planes through our airspace and ignoring any threats was a massive mistake an I hope someone was fired for it. I wouldn't go so far as to say that we knew they were government operatives on a mission to spread fear. As for the theory that a missile struck the Pentagon, I now understand that the debris was legitimate and the camera was simply a bad camera. I think this is the same case with the plane that crashed en route to the White House.
Overall, the attacks were probably genuine but the politics were politics. We invaded the Middle East shortly after, and I do think that this is also a means of making a profit from what has been a religious conflict for hundreds if not thousands of years. The Middle East is a violent, turbulent, and theocratic place which makes it the perfect target for inciting revolution. I read on NPR recently that we are selling weapons to the Syrian rebel forces, and examples like that are what we could be making our money from.
Since it is 5 am I'll try to wrap my post up with as much logical fidelity as I can, because I'm getting a little loopy from sleep deprivation.
I used to think it was an inside job but now I don't because the evidence is clear. 9/11 was a genuine surprise attack that surprised us so much that we landed flat on our asses in blowback. Other than those two points, I think the rest is all up to more debate.
I think threads like these are awesome fun, especially when people get along.[/QUOTE]
Alright, first of all let me say I am damn impressed that you typed all of that on an ipad, and that a guy with a Ron Paul avatar managed to make a fairly sane post.
I do agree with you on the politics of the issue, but there is one point I'd like to point out: ignoring the threats was definitely a bad move, but (and I'm sorry if I'm just misinterpreting what you said here) the idea the planes were "allowed" to continue is an outright myth. As soon as the government became aware of what was happening fighter jets were scrambled to intercept the remaining hijacked planes, these fighters broke protocol and flew at supersonic speeds in an effort to halt the attack. There simply wasn't enough time to stop them once it began.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;36686511]Alright, first of all let me say I am damn impressed that you typed all of that on an ipad, and that a guy with a Ron Paul avatar managed to make a fairly sane post.
I do agree with you on the politics of the issue, but there is one point I'd like to point out: ignoring the threats was definitely a bad move, but (and I'm sorry if I'm just misinterpreting what you said here) the idea the planes were "allowed" to continue is an outright myth. As soon as the government became aware of what was happening fighter jets were scrambled to intercept the remaining hijacked planes, these fighters broke protocol and flew at supersonic speeds in an effort to halt the attack. There simply wasn't enough time to stop them once it began.[/QUOTE]
Sorry about that, I didn't mean to make it sound like they allowed the hijackers through. I just know that many people use that as evidence for saying it was an inside job. Thanks for informing me that they actually did try to stop them though!
EDIT: Also... Do I need to make a Ron Paul thread? I'm no so sure I see the negatives you see. I kinda think he's a badass sage motherfucker but it's whatevs.
I think he's crazy but whatevs.
[QUOTE=supersnail11;36692512]I think he's crazy but whatevs.[/QUOTE]
This is not relevant debate! Your message must be deleted and you must be barred from this thread.
Just to eliminate any hyprocracy, 9/11 stinks blah blah
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
