#1ReasonWhy - Sexism in the Video Game Industry - SESSLER'S SOMETHING - General

Sorry, I'm just being incredibly extreme, I don't literally think it's porn. I'm sure the game's fun - but - it also would have been fun if the game didn't zoom into her vagina when she does some acrobatic move, or if she didn't get completely naked when she does that transform crap. No, I didn't play the game, no, that doesn't completely invalidate my opinion. It does look like something I'd enjoy, but the entire time I would be thinking "ugh did the have to just zoom into her butt when I did that". I recently played Arkham City and the catwoman scenes were the same thing, panning and zooming into her cleavage or butt and when you counter attack as her she'll kiss the dude before knocking them out, and whyyyy? It would be so much better if none of that happened. [editline]3rd December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Primigenes;38692913]Damn you need to chill out. Did someone pour something in your cereal?[/QUOTE] no, my Waffle Crunch is untainted and literally the best cereal [img]http://puu.sh/1wPPg[/img]

[QUOTE=Raidyr;38692958]Well he is right.[/QUOTE] Hardly, Anita's brand of feminism is kinda detrimental to obtaining rights for women. She is obviously against sexual expression seeing as porn adverts offend her, infact all porn seems to offend her. She is fighting against misogyny in video games, that is fine but she is not doing it in the right way at all.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;38692922]That doesn't seem like a very mature thing to do. Then again, calling a documentary that made several times it's asking price in crowdsourcing "pointless" is also immature. [/QUOTE] Calling such documentaries pointless can be a bit immature yes, but it isn't with out reason.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;38693007]Sorry, I'm just being incredibly extreme, I don't literally think it's porn. I'm sure the game's fun - but - it also would have been fun if the game didn't zoom into her vagina when she does some acrobatic move, or if she didn't get completely naked when she does that transform crap. No, I didn't play the game, no, that doesn't completely invalidate my opinion. It does look like something I'd enjoy, but the entire time I would be thinking "ugh did the have to just zoom into her butt when I did that".[/QUOTE] It's true, the over-the-top sex appeal can be a problem and we'll have to see what can be done in industry in the future. But as long as a large part of the audience enjoys it, it will stay. But not to intentionally undermine women as some grand patriarchy, it's only trying to cater to customers. I'm not against what Anita is trying to do, or her as a person. I'm only saying I wish her methods were a little better. Doing an "analysis" of something exaggerated or misunderstood doesn't help anyone. When you play Bayonetta, it's not even close to the extremes the video presents. Spreading misinformation causes irrational anger and hate. And yeah, waffle crunch is pretty rad. :v:

[QUOTE=Winters;38693066]Hardly, Anita's brand of feminism is kinda detrimental to obtaining rights for women. She is obviously against sexual expression seeing as porn adverts offend her, infact all porn seems to offend her. She is fighting against misogyny in video games, that is fine but she is not doing it in the right way at all.[/QUOTE] What is the right way of doing it? At least she is fighting.

[QUOTE=JustGman;38691913][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHbuhoD9s9Y[/media] ignore the second half[/QUOTE] Quick side thing, why did his account go down?

[QUOTE=Shadaez;38693140]What is the right way of doing it? At least she is fighting.[/QUOTE] she's not fighting anything, she's making tons of money while pumping out a couple videos to make the backers feel like they actually made a difference by doing absolutely nothing. [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;38693180]Quick side thing, why did his account go down?[/QUOTE] he took down all his videos and made a new account to host his music or something.

-ninja-

[QUOTE=Shadaez;38693140]What is the right way of doing it? At least she is fighting.[/QUOTE] The right way would be do actually play through your subject matter and not use generalizations or extreme overexaggeration of the subject matter in a proper thought-provoking analysis. Know the material, examine the material, present thoughts.

[QUOTE=JustGman;38693204] he took down all his videos and made a new account to host his music or something.[/QUOTE] Shame, I wish he kept those vids uploaded. Lot of interesting point in them.

[QUOTE=JustGman;38693204]she's not fighting anything, she's making tons of money while pumping out a couple videos to make the backers feel like they actually made a difference by doing absolutely nothing. [/QUOTE] Except the part where she hasn't put a video out since the kickstarter started. If you're against sexism in games why are you so against Anita? Her videos at the very least will inform you and other people who already are like minded about issues they can bring up to more easily combat it.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;38691768]also fyi for the people in this thread if you don't like being called a misogynistic nerd I can understand that but you have to compromise and not call anyone who disagrees with you a white knight. That's kinda hypocritical[/QUOTE] Not everyone who donated to anita's kickstarter was a white knight. some of them genuinely cared about what she had to say. The White knight part kicked in when most people went "i'm going to donate money to spite the haters! ha i'm so cool." because of the massive batshit fest that broke out.

I think it's pretty clear just by the terminally acidic backlash that the gaming community has a shitload of baggage when it comes to women. I really, really, really dislike whatserface's style of analyzation. That being said, more stuff that's in the vein of what she's doing needs to be done. At the very least game people should be able to look at a project like sarkita aneesian's and not instantly lapse into a fit of uncontrollable e-rage. And on that level I think it still has value.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;38693180]Quick side thing, why did his account go down?[/QUOTE] he didn't want to be known as foreverpandering ninja

[QUOTE=Shadaez;38693140]What is the right way of doing it? At least she is fighting.[/QUOTE] The right way would be to highlight positive and negative female characters and say why they are so. Not just to point at characters and call them mysoginist based entirely on their aesthetic design. Anita Sarkesian doesn't do research, she just criticises everything she personally finds offensive without trying to understand their meaning. Take her 'review' of Bayonetta, she spends the whole video blasting the ad campaign (which the developers porbably had very little to do with) and talking about sexual abuse on subways than she does the game. She criticises Bayonetta's character design without realising that it's satire, such as the extremely exaggerated length of her legs, or the fact that her fighting style involves contorting to obscene angles for no good reason. All Sarkesian sees in a 'sexy' woman who loses her clothes when she does a super attack and doesn't want to look further.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;38693180]Quick side thing, why did his account go down?[/QUOTE] I think he doesn't want to be known as ForeverPandering and rather be known as a guy who makes music. Not sure,I didn't read his full blog post. [url=http://5everpandering.tumblr.com/]This[/url] was the blog post if you want to read it yourself.

[QUOTE=Super Muffin;38693221]The right way would be do actually play through your subject matter and not use generalizations or extreme overexaggeration of the subject matter in a proper thought-provoking analysis. Know the material, examine the material, present thoughts.[/QUOTE] It's like skimming through Watchmen and concluding that because it has the Silk Specter it's sexist trash. Visual and gameplay elements don't necessarily mean what you think they mean at face value. Good example being Spec Ops:TL. Without actually experiencing the content you're analyzing in full, all you're doing is throwing out snap judgements. Which as a critic is dishonest, destructive, and lazy.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;38693245]Except the part where she hasn't put a video out since the kickstarter started. If you're against sexism in games why are you so against Anita? Her videos at the very least will inform you and other people who already are like minded about issues they can bring up to more easily combat it.[/QUOTE] If anything the fact that she still hasn't released a single video shows she was only in it for the money. Wasn't the first video supposed to come out like a couple of months ago? She took the money and ran dude. Her website hasn't even been updated in a month.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;38693140]What is the right way of doing it? At least she is fighting.[/QUOTE] Fighting? Hah. It has been fucking six months and she hasn't even put out a webisode of that yet. Not even an update on how things were faring. It was a scam at the oppurtune time, taking money and running with it.

[QUOTE=Wii60;38693246]Not everyone who donated to anita's kickstarter was a white knight. some of them genuinely cared about what she had to say. The White knight part kicked in when most people went "i'm going to donate money to spite the haters! ha i'm so cool." because of the massive batshit fest that broke out.[/QUOTE] So you used an derogatory word incorrectly. I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

There was an update a month ago. She got a lot more money than she planned, so she's probably going to make sure the production quality is higher. Calling it a scam is just insulting.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;38693245]Except the part where she hasn't put a video out since the kickstarter started. If you're against sexism in games why are you so against Anita? Her videos at the very least will inform you and other people who already are like minded about issues they can bring up to more easily combat it.[/QUOTE] im against her because she's greedy and obnoxious. her idea of "gender equality" in games is having every female character designed specifically to cater to the ideals of her and people like her. [QUOTE=Shadaez;38693369]There was an update a month ago. She got a lot more money than she planned, so she's probably going to make sure the production quality is higher. Calling it a scam is just insulting.[/QUOTE] it's not a scam, it's just people having really high expectations for what's just going to end up being a bunch of half assed videos talking about shit people already know.

[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;38691201]You got it here. There are plenty of very talented and smart women in the gaming industry both on the journalism and development side, but YOU only get to see the ones that "fuck up." That's just the way it works currently, unfortunately. No one wants to read about a woman that is just "successful," but instead women that have made mistakes.[/QUOTE] "fucking up" isn't what makes her the kind of person journalists want to write about. If it was they wouldn't be writing about her at all because she got exactly what she wanted. It's what she stands for that they like. Sexism in Video Games is a subject that has the potential to draw a lot of attention, and someone who takes Tumblr's anti-sex/pro-censorship stance can easily unlock this potential. Standing up for someone in a fight against a large group of people is also an easy way to make yourself look like "the good guy", and they've gotten multiple opportunities to do that. Because of this, journalists actually benefit from supporting people like Anita over less controversial figures, and that's precisely what they do.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;38693250]I think it's pretty clear just by the terminally acidic backlash that the gaming community has a shitload of baggage when it comes to women. I really, really, really dislike whatserface's style of analyzation. That being said, more stuff that's in the vein of what she's doing needs to be done. At the very least game people should be able to look at a project like sarkita aneesian's and not instantly lapse into a fit of uncontrollable e-rage. And on that level I think it still has value.[/QUOTE] I'm no fan of Sarkeesian, something I've mentioned numerous times in this thread, but the sheer about of harassment and bile she has received, to say nothing of illegal DDOS attacks and death threats, clearly shows a problem with the gaming community. I'd much rather have a slightly over-zealous but well meaning feminist documentary outlining positive and negative representations of the female gender in video games than to have a community where such things are railed against as hard as they are. It's disgusting.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;38692024]This guy is an idiot, I don't even know what to say about it. People wanted to support Anita so they gave her money. What you want to see in videos has nothing to do with what she's offering to put out there. She started the kickstarter, and backers supported it so there's obviously a market and people that want to watch.[/QUOTE] The issue is that she is calling her overly one-sided crap a "documentary". The documentary is not a forum for a mere opinion piece, which is why even her site calls her videos "commentaries". She has no facts, no one from the industry, and NO GAMERS. How is she going to put together a documentary with a bunch of low-correlation studies, a feminist bias, and loads of plagiarized lines? She is full of shit. So full of shit in fact, that she took her thesis off her website. I have no idea how that pile of shit qualified her for a Masters degree, but I assure you no prof I've ever had would have accepted it. [QUOTE=Shadaez;38692831]People make mistakes, it's like when people call MaxOfS2D a bad mod and a hypocrite because he made fun of Americans or called some kid an Aspie. Anita isn't a hypocrite because of the video, and I agree with it entirely. I think that it just states some false things as facts. Do you really blame her for not wanting to play a game that's [B]literally porn for 16 year old misogynistic anime-loving brony 4chan users?[/B][/QUOTE] I know you tried to skirt under this line but I'm sorry, you are just as much of a hypocrite as she is. First, you never played the game, and second, you're using sweeping generalizations about said game (which you know nothing about). She calls herself a "pop culture media critic". Remember when that movie critic said no video game would ever have a story as emotionally involving as a movie, and gamers across the world called him an idiot? Don't overstep your bounds and start talking shit about things you don't know/understand, or you too will have your reputation thrown under a bus. [QUOTE=Shadaez;38693245]Except the part where she hasn't put a video out since the kickstarter started. If you're against sexism in games why are you so against Anita? Her videos at the very least will inform you and other people who already are like minded about issues they can bring up to more easily combat it.[/QUOTE] What revelation is she bringing to the table that other feminist gamers haven't already talked about? Hell, how many men talk about how unbelievable some characters are? This issue is not only known and understood, it is being dealt with constantly. It's simple: Anita is stirring up quite the bee's nest. I always encourage people to do this... when they know what they're talking about. You realize it says "Feminist Frequency videos are often included on course syllabi and screened in traditional classrooms and by educational organizations." on her website? Please tell me what formal educational institution regularly shows unreferenced and unsourced commentaries from a barely known blip on the internet. In my several years of post-secondary education, I have never once seen this, and I very much doubt anyone else has. She just wants to sound important, and frankly, I don't want to do anything that inflates her already oversized state of self-importance. EDIT: [URL]http://www.feministfrequency.com/2012/08/quick-tropes-vs-women-projec-update/[/URL] What the fuck is she doing with SNES, Gamecube, and PS2 games? The last year of real releases on the PS2 was 2009, and the other systems even earlier than that. Why is she reviewing games made on anything but the latest systems/formats? God forbid yet another person talks about the original Tomb Raider game like it is in anyway relevant to gaming today.

Since were on page 3 and talking about Sarkeesian anyway; my biggest criticism of her outlook is how narrow her spectrum for good female characters is and how broad her spectrum for bad female characters is. That said, her overall message that a wealth of terrible female characters exist in video games is true enough, and between Fat Ugly or Slutty and this new #1ReasonWhy deal I think actual females are being harassed and abused purely for being women in a male-dominated industry.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;38693964]fart[/QUOTE] what is it with people liking to call people hypocrites? -i said something really stupid about flak- I feel pretty awful about this because it's literally not even the same flak lol im awful im sorry

[QUOTE=Shadaez;38694109]what is it with people liking to call people hypocrites? [B]fyi this is the same flak that was creepily hitting on a female on facepunch for a while[/B][/QUOTE] That is, no joke the biggest ad hominem argument I have seen against someone on Facepunch for a long time.

[QUOTE=Shadaez;38694109]what is it with people liking to call people hypocrites? fyi this is the same flak that was creepily hitting on a female on facepunch for a while[/QUOTE] Did you even read his post?

[QUOTE=mooman1080;38694250]Did you even read his post?[/QUOTE] Yes, but what revelation is his post bringing to the table that other posters haven't already talked about? [editline]3rd December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeos;38694172]That is, no joke the biggest ad hominem argument I have seen against someone on Facepunch for a long time.[/QUOTE] sorry i cant take people seriously that threaten me, this isn't the debate forum, and I don't really care if certain people agree with me