#1ReasonWhy - Sexism in the Video Game Industry - SESSLER'S SOMETHING - General

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[QUOTE=postmanX3;38694339]shadaez shadaez stop you're cool but you're clearly talking yourself into a corner atm.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zeos;38694172]That is, no joke the biggest ad hominem argument I have seen against someone on Facepunch for a long time.[/QUOTE] I'd appreciate if you snipped that because noone needs to know that, and so I look like less of an idiot to everyone

[QUOTE=Raidyr;38693485]I'm no fan of Sarkeesian, something I've mentioned numerous times in this thread, but the sheer about of harassment and bile she has received, to say nothing of illegal DDOS attacks and death threats, clearly shows a problem with the gaming community. I'd much rather have a slightly over-zealous but well meaning feminist documentary outlining positive and negative representations of the female gender in video games than to have a community where such things are railed against as hard as they are. It's disgusting.[/QUOTE] Again, mob mentality. They were operating as a large group of annoyed people so they acted like a large group of annoyed people. It's why cops don't leave peaceful protests unsupervised. Anita knew that was the kind of response she'd get if she allowed people who disliked her to confront her in large numbers. That's why she didn't allow it to happen until the gaming journalists were watching, and hasn't allowed it to happen since. The most unusual thing was not the way she was confronted, but the way she responded to it.

[QUOTE=G-Strogg;38691667]For me, the most appalling thing is that she raised all that money and only added "more videos". Wasn't the end sum somewhere up in the millions?[/QUOTE] nooo? not even close to a million what are you talking about

on the topic of tomb raider, the new game is like the creepiest fucking thing ever made i mean i don't even know if it qualifies as sexist. it's like Ryu-gi: The Game.

[QUOTE=Keyblockor;38693335]Fighting? Hah. It has been fucking six months and she hasn't even put out a webisode of that yet. Not even an update on how things were faring. It was a scam at the oppurtune time, taking money and running with it.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games/posts[/url]

[QUOTE=Shadaez;38694285]Yes, but what revelation is his post bringing to the table that other posters haven't already talked about? [/QUOTE] You could of at least acknowledged him rather than ignoring his post entirely and trying to use an ad hominem argument. But never mind.

in any case it was absolutely far more than what she actually asked for, which is why the characterization of her being some kind of trickster stealing money doesn't make a whole lot of sense [editline]3rd December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Wii60;38689826] using her name now is essentially used as a Marketing tool or PR damage control that is hard to tear down because of the white knight bullshittery that is happening in the industry right now which essentially makes it PR suicide if you try.[/QUOTE] i don't understand what the point of this statement was why do you keep using the word white knight without even contextualizing it

Who even cares how much money she made If I ask for a dollar to buy a bottle of water and a bunch of people gave me a million, other people shouldn't get offended if all I do is buy a bottle of water Same thing applies here, except replace "buying a bottle of water" with "making terrible videos"

I honestly DON'T know what to say about Sarkeesian, that hasn't already been said, thrown aside, said again, insulted, said again and then finally ignored. What I will say after watching her other videos that I am not holding much hope for it. Her other videos are actual blatant attempts at just getting people to react the way she wants them to. I'd rather fund a discussion by Sessler or Morgan Webb or a third party with no investment in gaming. Sarkeesian is not since she's heavily invested in trying to remove any sort of sexual and or social commentary she does not agree with. She has all the faults of a bad researcher, taking peer review badly, ignoring it or completely using it as a tool to further her own goals. She also does not permit to place herself in admittance of her bias which is extremely important in creating a thoughtful and constructive discussion about any topic. I'm also not going to actually talk about what males look like in Videogames because for every time people talk about power fantasies, I see the image of the hero doing suicidal jumps and charges that promote the idea that men should ideally throw away their lives to get what they want which not only unhealthy but only good in a society that sees young men as disposable. Done.

[QUOTE=thisispain;38694629]in any case it was absolutely far more than what she actually asked for, which is why the characterization of her being some kind of trickster stealing money doesn't make a whole lot of sense [editline]3rd December 2012[/editline] i don't understand what the point of this statement was why do you keep using the word white knight without even contextualizing it[/QUOTE] she doesn't even need to steal from people, they just throw their money at her and expect her to push out some amazing eye-opening god tier documentary that will shake society and the universe as a whole. it's not going to achieve anything and they expect too much for so little effort.

I fucking love Adam Sessler. He's changing my views on this slightly, but I still dislike Sarkeesian

[QUOTE=JustGman;38694784]she doesn't even need to steal from people, they just throw their money at her and expect her to push out some amazing eye-opening god tier documentary that will shake society and the universe as a whole. it's not going to achieve anything and they expect too much for so little effort.[/QUOTE] ok so what

[Img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7274/7619451560_2371b4cffb_z.jpg[/img] Yep, she's definitely going to examine every single one of these games for misogyny in gaming If you believe that, I have some rare coins you can buy off me for $700 each

[QUOTE=Swilly;38694705]I honestly DON'T know what to say about Sarkeesian, that hasn't already been said, thrown aside, said again, insulted, said again and then finally ignored. What I will say after watching her other videos that I am not holding much hope for it. Her other videos are actual blatant attempts at just getting people to react the way she wants them to. I'd rather fund a discussion by Sessler or Morgan Webb or a third party with no investment in gaming. Sarkeesian is not since she's heavily invested in trying to remove any sort of sexual and or social commentary she does not agree with. She has all the faults of a bad researcher, taking peer review badly, ignoring it or completely using it as a tool to further her own goals. She also does not permit to place herself in admittance of her bias which is extremely important in creating a thoughtful and constructive discussion about any topic. I'm also not going to actually talk about what males look like in Videogames because for every time people talk about power fantasies, I see the image of the hero doing suicidal jumps and charges that promote the idea that men should ideally throw away their lives to get what they want which not only unhealthy but only good in a society that sees young men as disposable. Done.[/QUOTE] I think the real issue is the acidic nature of the general gaming populace towards women, not women's portrayal in games themselves. I'd say that the latter is more just a symptom of the former, same goes for male disposability. I don't know, things like that are hard to parse. How do you tell the difference between a game where the satisfaction comes from destroying yourself to achieve a goal or from achieving a goal by virtue of being indestructible? With something like God of War it's fun because the character you're playing is completely unstoppable. I guess you could say that CoD type games function on the whole male disposability self sacrifice fantasy archetype, but even then the argument is marred in gameplay mechanics and details. I don't know, I think the bigger and more easily tackled issue is just getting game people to stop being such touchy sexist racist fucknuggets online.

"There's so much misogyni in Left4Dead, I could just stamp my little feet!"

[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;38694888][Img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7274/7619451560_2371b4cffb_z.jpg[/img] Yep, she's definitely going to examine every single one of these games for misogyny in gaming If you believe that, I have some rare coins you can buy off me for $700 each[/QUOTE] what's the point in analyzing sexism in the godfather videogame isn't that like, critical analysis incest or something also she should play dark souls that's a really good game

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;38694926]I think the real issue is the acidic nature of the general gaming populace towards women, not women's portrayal in games themselves. I'd say that the latter is more just a symptom of the former, same goes for male disposability. I don't know, things like that are hard to parse. How do you tell the difference between a game where the satisfaction comes from destroying yourself to achieve a goal or from achieving a goal by virtue of being indestructible? With something like God of War it's fun because the character you're playing is completely unstoppable. I guess you could say that CoD type games function on the whole male disposability self sacrifice fantasy archetype, but even then the argument is marred in gameplay mechanics and details. I don't know, I think the bigger and more easily tackled issue is just getting game people to stop being such touchy sexist racist fucknuggets online.[/QUOTE] I still think it needs to be touched on that every roll of dying is usually covered by non-descript males with nothing more than being cannon fodder, almost as if its hailing back to what World War I was.

[QUOTE=Swilly;38695016]I still think it needs to be touched on that every roll of dying is usually covered by non-descript males with nothing more than being cannon fodder, almost as if its hailing back to what World War I was.[/QUOTE] But like I said, that's a major part of the entirety of our culture. Like, all of it. If you were to make something tackling it just in games you would be hamstringing yourself by having too small a focus. and again, mired in details and technical nibblies. there's no way to go at something this wide spread without spending decades clarifying everything you say.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;38695084]But like I said, that's a major part of the entirety of our culture. Like, all of it. If you were to make something tackling it just in games you would be hamstringing yourself by having too small a focus. and again, mired in details and technical nibblies. there's no way to go at something this wide spread without spending decades clarifying everything you say.[/QUOTE] Then maybe we should start, because not only in videogames. Its in movies and TV shows.

movie and TV show criticism isn't a new thing videogame criticism is

[QUOTE=Swilly;38695105]Then maybe we should start, because not only in videogames. Its in movies and TV shows.[/QUOTE] ill go grab full metal jacket call of duty and a military ad, you grab a copy of windows movie maker and a microphone the truth will be exposed

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;38695137]ill go grab full metal jacket call of duty and a military ad, you grab a copy of windows movie maker and a microphone the truth will be exposed[/QUOTE] Thanks for the sarcasm. [editline]3rd December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;38695126]movie and TV show criticism isn't a new thing videogame criticism is[/QUOTE] And not its not, constructive critism is what is new.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;38694964]also she should play dark souls that's a really good game[/QUOTE] she'll probably die at the first boss and complain that the game is misogynist because the developers use artificial difficulty to create trigger warnings that mentally abuse women because from software is a bunch of misogynistic pigs just like team ico and have no skill or merit whatsoever please give me more money so i can not make videos yes go ahead and rate me dumb even though this is the same shitty prose she uses in her videos and the reason why she slandered Ico in a tweet

[QUOTE=kanesenpai~;38695333]she'll probably die at the first boss and complain that the game is misogynist because the developers use artificial difficulty to create trigger warnings that mentally abuse women because from software is a bunch of misogynistic pigs just like team ico and have no skill or merit whatsoever please give me more money so i can not make videos[/QUOTE] I think that many of her backlashers tend to exacerbate her claims. When she discussed about the advertising campaign behind Bayonetta, I don't think that she was trying to disregard the effort made by the dev team. She criticized the advertising campaign, not because it was made by men, but because sex is a useless gimmick. Did you pop an erection when you saw the adverts? I know I didn't. I do agree that her comment about Ico was uncalled for, it did use the "damsel in distress" trope heavily. I'm not sure why she became surprised though, it's usually expected in the fantasy genre.

all good EXCEPT they used a skullgirls picture in the montage of "overly sexualized women in games", when, in fact, skullgirls is drawn by a girl. All of the character design and animation is by a girl. I know because she also does a lot of art for mega64 products.

[QUOTE=notlabbet;38695972]all good EXCEPT they used a skullgirls picture in the montage of "overly sexualized women in games", when, in fact, skullgirls is drawn by a girl. All of the character design and animation is by a girl. I know because she also does a lot of art for mega64 products.[/QUOTE] Just because it's drawn by a woman doesn't mean that they can't oversexualize a character

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;38696043]Just because it's drawn by a woman doesn't mean that they can't oversexualize a character[/QUOTE] its not some pornographic thing some dude drew that he thought would give other dudes boners

[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;38696043]Just because it's drawn by a woman doesn't mean that they can't oversexualize a character[/QUOTE] You know, one thing's been bugging me. There was a comic posted a while ago that's really fucking good, and it equated the feeling that the author gets looking at all the oversexualized women in comic books to how dudes would feel if batman looked all waify and rosy good comic, very well made point, but that got me thinking Now, I like some crazy shit. I'm a horror guy. I like H. R. Giger, I like David Cronenberg, I like Harlan Ellison. I like all that freaky stuff. So when I see it, or read it, or whatever, I enjoy myself. It's cool.But I'm pretty sure everyone has met someone(or is a person) who would look at something like Shivers or Necronom and just feel really uncomfortable. But it doesn't faze me at all, and honestly I enjoy art that dives head first into the fucked up zone. So with that in mind, is it okay that that kind of art makes other people uncomfortable? Assuming that there is no ill will meant towards anyone by the artist, is it okay for it to be offensive?And if it's okay for people to make artwork that others find offensive because of the violent and horrific content, is it okay for people to make artwork that others find offensive because of the sexual content? [editline]4th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=notlabbet;38696111]its not some pornographic thing some dude drew that he thought would give other dudes boners[/QUOTE] Alan Moore made Lost Girls with his wife. Women can draw porn of women and men can draw porn of men, all it takes is a little understanding of what your audience wants.

A pantyshot isn't oversexualizing A few hundred years ago showing ankles was considered oversexualizing as well Oh no an undergarment how degrading Meanwhile Dante can run around half naked and no one cares [editline]3rd December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;38696270]You know, one thing's been bugging me. There was a comic posted a while ago that's really fucking good, and it equated the feeling that the author gets looking at all the oversexualized women in comic books to how dudes would feel if batman looked all waify and rosy good comic, very well made point, but that got me thinking[/QUOTE] Oversexualizing != feminine Batman's buff, rich, and successful clearly perpetuating stereotypical male ideals