• Pro-Legalization vs Prohibition of "Drugs"
    388 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;32388816]Then I'm asking you, what benefit is there of keeping them illegal?[/QUOTE] Keeping them illegal would ideally reduce usage. Which is good in my book. I don't think hard drugs are good for society as a whole, or individuals. They're unsafe and can cause dependencies. People are stupid and make bad decisions about drugs, and yes, I think sometimes people need to be told what is best for them, especially when accurate information about drugs is hard to come by. Unfortunately, keeping them illegal doesn't really work as well as intended, and increases gang violence. And I ultimately do want people to be able to make their own educated decisions about things like drug usage, but the problem is that sometimes people don't know what they're getting into, especially youth. And as I said before, drugs being illegal does deter some people from them. Unfortunately, it's hard to get good information from people on either side of the debate, because the people I usually hear from that are pro-legalization are obviously biased by their desire for drugs, and those against it play it up like if we legalize drugs, everyone and their daughter will OD on crack. I rarely actually see a good, two-sided discussion on it, which makes it hard for people like me to actually form an opinion.
[QUOTE=fenwick;32388977]Keeping them illegal would ideally reduce usage. Which is good in my book. I don't think hard drugs are good for society as a whole, or individuals. They're unsafe and can cause dependencies. People are stupid and make bad decisions about drugs, and yes, I think sometimes people need to be told what is best for them, especially when accurate information about drugs is hard to come by.[/QUOTE] You'd imagine it would, but that's never been the case with any social law. But that's not up for you to say and ultimately, society is no better if they're forced out of drug usage, only when they choose to stop drug use. I don't see why people who've been forced out of a decision are better off than those who've learned better of such a decision. [QUOTE=fenwick;32388977] Unfortunately, keeping them illegal doesn't really work as well as intended, and increases gang violence. And I ultimately do want people to be able to make their own educated decisions about things like drug usage, but the problem is that sometimes people don't know what they're getting into, especially youth. And as I said before, drugs being illegal does deter some people from them.[/QUOTE] Also true, and like you're saying about the youth getting it, legalization is what prevents this. Cigarettes and alcohol were the hardest things for me to get when I was under age, but heroin was comparably much easier for me to get. regulation and control is what prevents the youth from getting it and education is what allows them to make their own choices. Schools should be educating people with factual information, the real ups and downs of drug use, not this "DARE" bullshit and certainly no "smoke weed errday" bullshit. And consequently, them being illegal entice some others to do them. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=fenwick;32388977]Unfortunately, it's hard to get good information from people on either side of the debate, because the people I usually hear from that are pro-legalization are obviously biased by their desire for drugs, and those against it play it up like if we legalize drugs, everyone and their daughter will OD on crack. I rarely actually see a good, two-sided discussion on it, which makes it hard for people like me to actually form an opinion.[/QUOTE] I'm an ex heroin addict and a weed smoker. I'm not the least biased of sources, but my experience gives me better perspective than most. The way I see it, if drugs are legalized, we'll see an initial surge of drug use, which would quickly fall after a year at most, in this period, drug rehab would have to be reformed and supported by the government similarly to prisons, which, coincidentally would solve the prison over population and prison construction that's been happening recently. I think that if we treated drugs with the respect and humility they deserve, and we actually educated ourselves properly about them, almost all problems related to this would be solved.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;32388478]This is silly. Selling cigarettes is a hard poison but we do it every day and we endorse it as a society. Selling meth? That will NEVER equal the deaths and the addictions and pain of cigarettes. It has nothing to do with addiction, even drugs that have physically addictive qualities about them are not 100% going to cause an addiction. The user of the drug should be well educated about the effects and side effects of any drug including addiction. How does having them illegal do this? The drugs are STILL being sold, and in record numbers might I add. [/QUOTE] I think permitted the sale of nicotine but the illegalisation of cannabis is a double standard. I don't believe all drugs should be banned nor that all drugs should be allowed. I'd rather we critically look at each recreational drug and evaluate its dangers (and benefits) individually. Making something illegal is a clear statement that we do not endorse this activity as a society.
[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;32389569]I think permitted the sale of nicotine but the illegalisation of cannabis is a double standard. I don't believe all drugs should be banned nor that all drugs should be allowed. I'd rather we critically look at each recreational drug and evaluate its dangers (and benefits) individually. Making something illegal is a clear statement that we do not endorse this activity as a society.[/QUOTE] Cigarettes aren't an opposite of marijuana, so that's not exactly a good comparison. Drugs like PCP or crack, I can see why you'd want them illegal, but I find the idea of making something illegal and being incapable of enforcing that law to be unreasonable. But that's a subjective moral view. A social conservatism that it's stupid to slap onto all of us.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;32389605]Cigarettes aren't an opposite of marijuana, so that's not exactly a good comparison. Drugs like PCP or crack, I can see why you'd want them illegal, but I find the idea of making something illegal and being incapable of enforcing that law to be unreasonable. But that's a subjective moral view. A social conservatism that it's stupid to slap onto all of us.[/QUOTE] My point was that nicotine is still allowed despite being more harmful that cannabis. I think illegalisation of some compounds is difficult to enforce but not impossible. I feel that the spirit of the law is more important than the letter anyway. Of course, illegalisation is not a solution to dangerous drug abuse; it is just a stance society takes. A real solution would be to educate people so that they don't desire the drug in the first place.
[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;32389664]My point was that nicotine is still allowed despite being more harmful that cannabis. I think illegalisation of some compounds is difficult to enforce but not impossible. I feel that the spirit of the law is more important than the letter anyway. Of course, illegalisation is not a solution to dangerous drug abuse; it is just a stance society takes. A real solution would be to educate people so that they don't desire the drug in the first place.[/QUOTE] Drug use shouldn't be done away with is my point though, it's a moral view we all shouldn't have to hold, and it shouldn't be forced on us. Education is the absolute best option, but legislation against it seems silly to me.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;32389713]Drug use shouldn't be done away with is my point though, it's a moral view we all shouldn't have to hold, and it shouldn't be forced on us. Education is the absolute best option, but legislation against it seems silly to me.[/QUOTE] I say drugs out of convenience but when I'm talking about illegalisation I refer to the more dangerous substances. Each drug should be considered individually. There is nothing evil or wrong about mind altering substances. They just do what they do. What I do consider morally wrong is profiting by causing suffering and by making people slaves to their addiction.
Legalisation of some soft shit like weed wouldn't actually be problematic in comparison to things like cigarettes and alcohol, but drugs like ice will fuck your shit up. So, if any drugs are to be legalised and regulated, weed should be the only one as far as my education on the issue goes. The state has an obligation to the health of its citizens, shit like ice shouldn't exist either through legal or illegal methods. It's only out there to make some smart cunts a lot of money. The state and businesses shouldn't profit off of people ruining their lives through insane addictions.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;32389983]Legalisation of some soft shit like weed wouldn't actually be problematic in comparison to things like cigarettes and alcohol, but drugs like ice will fuck your shit up. So, if any drugs are to be legalised and regulated, weed should be the only one as far as my education on the issue goes. The state has an obligation to the health of its citizens, shit like ice shouldn't exist either through legal or illegal methods. It's only out there to make some smart cunts a lot of money. The state and businesses shouldn't profit off of people ruining their lives through insane addictions.[/QUOTE] do you know the amount of people who use hard drugs safely? it's a lot more than you think.
[QUOTE=joe588;32390026]do you know the amount of people who use hard drugs safely? it's a lot more than you think.[/QUOTE] Got any sources?
Honestly, i'd rather have a babbling meth addict living next door than a raging alcoholic. One time, a friend of my dad's came over to visit, downed 3/4 of a bottle of vodka, puked on our cat and passed out in the bathroom and shit himself.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;32390055]Got any sources?[/QUOTE] [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8117162.stm[/url] 1 million people use cocaine reguarly in the uk. that's a lot of people. [editline]20th September 2011[/editline] i expect the true number to be higher. [editline]20th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=zombini;32390095]Honestly, i'd rather have a babbling meth addict living next door than a raging alcoholic. One time, a friend of my dad's came over to visit, downed 3/4 of a bottle of vodka, puked on our cat and passed out in the bathroom and shit himself.[/QUOTE] haha. i'd rather have neither, the drugs aren't the problem, the people are.
[QUOTE=joe588;32390189][url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8117162.stm[/url] 1 million people use cocaine reguarly in the uk. that's a lot of people. [editline]20th September 2011[/editline] i expect the true number to be higher.[/QUOTE] Sorry, but no where in that article did it mention that those 1,000,000 users are safe users. For all you know, 90% of those people could have an uncontrollable addiction, and that article did not clarify at all on the point I brought up. So find me a source where it mentions hard drugs being used safely in comparison to all hard drug use if you want to provide a decent argument.
On the topic of legalizing drugs, just how much will it affect the mexican cartels? Wouldn't they look for other alternatives to drugs?
[QUOTE=shian;32392374]On the topic of legalizing drugs, just how much will it affect the mexican cartels? Wouldn't they look for other alternatives to drugs?[/QUOTE] Oh yes smuggling videogames from cheaper countries to more expensive markets
[QUOTE=shian;32392374]On the topic of legalizing drugs, just how much will it affect the mexican cartels? Wouldn't they look for other alternatives to drugs?[/QUOTE] Maybe weapons, but not many people need weapons. And even then money for weapons comes from drugs.
The only thing that should become legal is cannabis, nothing else. And cannabis is not some crazy miracle drug that will help cure everything.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;32390333]Sorry, but no where in that article did it mention that those 1,000,000 users are safe users. For all you know, 90% of those people could have an uncontrollable addiction, and that article did not clarify at all on the point I brought up. So find me a source where it mentions hard drugs being used safely in comparison to all hard drug use if you want to provide a decent argument.[/QUOTE] what? there is not 900,000 people with an uncontrollable cocaine addiction in the uk. i'm just saying, more people than you think use it because they blend in and you'd never even know, from your local police man to your lawyer, lots of people use drugs. i've come across many people who do drugs that you wouldn't expect.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/user/satanicinternational#p/search/0/4HD4lsdXKFo[/media] i know there are a lot of holes to this, but something along these lines could work regarding regulating the distribution of hard drugs and making their dangers known. Just something i wanted to throw up here. excuse the channel, all i wanted to show is his hypothesis/idea, not the whole satan network thing.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;32390333]Sorry, but no where in that article did it mention that those 1,000,000 users are safe users. For all you know, 90% of those people could have an uncontrollable addiction, and that article did not clarify at all on the point I brought up. So find me a source where it mentions hard drugs being used safely in comparison to all hard drug use if you want to provide a decent argument.[/QUOTE] Are you joking? If over a million people are using cocaine, and 90% of those being uncontrollable addicts? That would be obvious and a bigger problem. But the thing is, drug use is common, incredibly common, more so now than it's ever been before, but it blends in. And who cares if they're being used safely in an environment that actively makes it so you can't use them safely? That's the cost of them being illegal, you FORCE people to do it in an unsafe matter.
I personally believe that they should legalise marijuana, for recreational purposes. There's no real reason to keep it illegal. Psilocybin should be legalised for therapeutic use for people with depression and terminal illness. LSD should be available via prescription for migraines (even if it's sub-psychedelic doses, because it's still effective). [editline]21st September 2011[/editline] MDMA could be prescribed for people with anxiety issues, especially social anxiety, as it basically removes all social barriers.
[QUOTE=HiddenMyst;32404012]I personally believe that they should legalise marijuana, for recreational purposes. There's no real reason to keep it illegal. Psilocybin should be legalised for therapeutic use for people with depression and terminal illness. LSD should be available via prescription for migraines (even if it's sub-psychedelic doses, because it's still effective). [editline]21st September 2011[/editline] MDMA could be prescribed for people with anxiety issues, especially social anxiety, as it basically removes all social barriers.[/QUOTE] I watched a documentary on lsd and they actually use a non psychadelic version of it for the people who have migraines
There are a lot of illegal substances that are illegal for retarded reasoning. You can go to jail for the importation or sale of anabolic steroids (which contrary to the false media perception of them, are generally safe when used in moderated dosages, even health improving) , yet it's completely legal and very to acquire a deadly poison called DNP that people have used for rapid fat loss. ????? Millions are spent on Marijuana raids and the reasoning spoke on is commonly "for the safety of children" despite there being overwhelming clinical/medical studies that point to it being an extremely benign drug. Yet if someone wanted to, with very little know how you can quickly create a toxic, addictive and powerful drug with over the counter medicines. ???? Governments consider people to be too irresponsible to safely and responsibly use minor recreational drugs, yet gives them the responsibility to consume alcohol, a culturally endorsed activity that happens to excess every weekend in every western country, and can easily be attributed to violent crimes, car accidents, rape and generally undesirable behavior. ????
If we decriminalize everything we get a chance to regulate them like any other legal drug. And to everyone who's saying only weed should be legal; there's a lot of drugs that are way safer than alcohol i.e MDMA and various psychedelics. If it wasn't such a taboo to talk about them we could focus our efforts on informing people about safe usage, instead of spreading propaganda to scare people away from using them, which, frankly doesn't help anyone. The world could probably be a slightly better place if we opened up for more mind expanding drugs, instead of depressants like alcohol which only dulls your senses.
To be honest, whether drugs are legalized or not, there will be problems. Illegal, you have black markets for it sprouting up, people who use them reasonably getting arrested, and suddenly anyone who smokes the slightest bit of pot is evil. Legalization has a whole new blanket of issues. In countries that have too many issues atm, regulating them could be hard. Furthermore, like alcohol, unreasonable use can cause harm to others (this problem is present either way but much easier to get with legalization), and if any government DOES legalize it, all the soccer moms and media will demonize the government. Really, drugs are just issues all around. Whether you ban them or legalize them, they can cause a huge amount of issues. And that's a problem.
I condone prohibition, since I think drugs are dangerous for everyone looking forward to having a good and politically correct life. That is all.
Legalize high quality drugs. Ban junk drugs that harms people. And not give a shit about the uninformed while you're at it. Fear should not effect politics.
[QUOTE=RickieSticki;32414287]I condone prohibition, since I think drugs are dangerous for everyone looking forward to having a good and politically correct life. That is all.[/QUOTE] Why? [editline]21st September 2011[/editline] Why condone something that only worsens the quality of life when you could just educate people out of drug use at a large scale?
I think that anyone over the age of 21 should be allowed to buy any drugs they want from a certified vendor at any time with a certain limit, I guess this would be better than nothing and stop most people from abusing it
From NORML: [quote]The White House is now accepting petitions from the American people on what issues matter to them. The minimum threshold for a response from the administration is 5,000 signatures, at which point they claim: "White House staff will review it, ensure it’s sent to the appropriate policy experts, and issue an official response." 5,000 signatures? Think we can do that for them NORML nation? Click. Sign. Share. It is time we legalize marijuana.[/quote] [url]https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/%21/petition/legalize-and-regulate-marijuana-manner-similar-alcohol/y8l45gb1[/url] I've signed it, truthfully though, I don't think much will come from this, but well, it's worth a try.
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