• Pro-Legalization vs Prohibition of "Drugs"
    388 replies, posted
Im sayin its a discgrace seeing scruffy heroin addicts stumbling around right outside my front door when the stuff is illegal. Also if you are right and the product is not very costly then what is to stop someone from becoming addicted and being on it all the time... not going to work because they have stocked up on cheap strong drugs and are spending the days getting wired. I don't think for one second it would be cheap anyway, since when was anything in high demand sold cheap... you really think the government are going to start selling more pure drugs for less than the street dealers where selling it when cut with other chemicals? Maybe it would work if people didn't abuse them but from my experience most people do abuse them.. staying up for days on end taking whatever they can get their hands on and disregarding everything else. Plus it is easy to get drugs anyway, like really really easy.. 1 phone call and I could get them within the hour!
I can't see how prohibition will keep people from doing drugs. If their intention is to do drugs,then why should a prohibition or a law stop them from doing it? Just make it all legal so we won't have to deal with criminals and such
[QUOTE=Mooe94;32486437]I can't see how prohibition will keep people from doing drugs. If their intention is to do drugs,then why should a prohibition or a law stop them from doing it? Just make it all legal so we won't have to deal with criminals and such[/QUOTE] That law won't stop people as little as the law will stop people from killing eachother. That's a really poor argument, make it legal so we will have less criminals.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32487733]That law won't stop people as little as the law will stop people from killing eachother. That's a really poor argument, make it legal so we will have less criminals.[/QUOTE]But doing drugs is a victimless crime.
I want regulated drug distribution so that I stop getting bunk ecstasy. I'm sick of getting pills that turn out to be BZP, because that stuff makes you extremely nauseous and is probably way worse for me than MDMA. [editline]26th September 2011[/editline] And when you pay $40 each, you don't want to spend your night throwing up into your mouth occasionally.
Why the hell would you buy ecstasy pills for 40 dollars each :v:
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32487733]That law won't stop people as little as the law will stop people from killing eachother. That's a really poor argument, make it legal so we will have less criminals.[/QUOTE] But I don't see how you think that the laws are 'protecting' anyone from doing drugs. If anything it's just worse to keep it illegal!
[QUOTE=Mooe94;32489166]But I don't see how you think that the laws are 'protecting' anyone from doing drugs. If anything it's just worse to keep it illegal![/QUOTE] It keeps people away from doing the drugs :v:
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32487733]That law won't stop people as little as the law will stop people from killing eachother. That's a really poor argument, make it legal so we will have less criminals.[/QUOTE] No it's not a poor argument. Murder and drug use are different. People need to stop comparing them. [editline]26th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=MrJazzy;32490352]It keeps people away from doing the drugs :v:[/QUOTE] Clearly not when drug use has only risen since the drug war started.
I have been gettin some pretty good e's this year, pay like 5 or 10 pounds each and they are nice and clean unlike the £2 pills I would get 10 years ago..
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;32490701]Clearly not when drug use has only risen since the drug war started.[/QUOTE] How trustable are those numbers though, and sure they may have risen but that's because of other things and it would definitely rise even more if made legal.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32490999]How trustable are those numbers though, and sure they may have risen but that's because of other things and it would definitely rise even more if made legal.[/QUOTE] Even if that were true, why would it matter? No more black market, no more drug wars, consumer crime would go down as with the prices, consumers could get a reliable product and would be more willing to get help from police if they need it, and people won't be imprisoned for a choice that only affects them. [editline]26th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Bang2Rights;32485662]I'm saying it's a disgrace seeing scruffy heroin addicts stumbling around right outside my front door when the stuff is illegal.[/quote] And I'm saying you're opinion doesn't matter especially if your opinion of an activity relies on the authority of the law. [QUOTE=Bang2Rights;32485662]Also if you are right and the product is not very costly then what is to stop someone from becoming addicted and being on it all the time... not going to work because they have stocked up on cheap strong drugs and are spending the days getting wired. I don't think for one second it would be cheap anyway, since when was anything in high demand sold cheap... [B]you really think the government are going to start selling more pure drugs for less than the street dealers where selling it when cut with other chemicals?[/B][/quote] Again, let's look at tobacco and alcohol. People who are addicted to both those substances still have jobs. Why? Because a person has other costs, such as rent, food, clothing, and so on. I really don't understand the bold. The government wouldn't be supplying the drugs. Not surprisingly, non black market business provides clean products. People died drinking the alcohol during prohibition due to the quality, but now, are there any real instances of people dying from alcohol due to bad brewing? Really, this is just how markets work, people will flock to brands that are safe. On a black market, there are no brands. [QUOTE=Bang2Rights;32485662]Maybe it would work if people didn't abuse them but from my experience most people do abuse them.. staying up for days on end taking whatever they can get their hands on and disregarding everything else.[/quote] If someone wants to abuse drugs, it is their choice, but I would like to point out that it is much safer for someone to abuse drugs if they were legal than if they weren't. Heroin has a huge issue with people overdosing because they aren't aware of the potency, and there are many reasons for this. Legalization could ensure some standard that would prevent so many of these deaths caused by overdose.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32488303]Why the hell would you buy ecstasy pills for 40 dollars each :v:[/QUOTE] Because its fucking expensive in some countries
[QUOTE=HiddenMyst;32488271]I want regulated drug distribution so that I stop getting bunk ecstasy. I'm sick of getting pills that turn out to be BZP, because that stuff makes you extremely nauseous and is probably way worse for me than MDMA. [editline]26th September 2011[/editline] And when you pay $40 each, you don't want to spend your night throwing up into your mouth occasionally.[/QUOTE] spend that $40 on marquis reagent... [editline]26th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=MrJazzy;32488303]Why the hell would you buy ecstasy pills for 40 dollars each :v:[/QUOTE] because he's australian and mdma doesn't really exist there unless you're in the right circles.
[QUOTE=Pepin;32491249]Even if that were true, why would it matter? No more black market, no more drug wars, consumer crime would go down as with the prices, consumers could get a reliable product and would be more willing to get help from police if they need it, and people won't be imprisoned for a choice that only affects them. [editline]26th September 2011[/editline] And I'm saying you're opinion doesn't matter especially if your opinion of an activity relies on the authority of the law. Again, let's look at tobacco and alcohol. People who are addicted to both those substances still have jobs. Why? Because a person has other costs, such as rent, food, clothing, and so on. I really don't understand the bold. The government wouldn't be supplying the drugs. Not surprisingly, non black market business provides clean products. People died drinking the alcohol during prohibition due to the quality, but now, are there any real instances of people dying from alcohol due to bad brewing? Really, this is just how markets work, people will flock to brands that are safe. On a black market, there are no brands. If someone wants to abuse drugs, it is their choice, but I would like to point out that it is much safer for someone to abuse drugs if they were legal than if they weren't. Heroin has a huge issue with people overdosing because they aren't aware of the potency, and there are many reasons for this. Legalization could ensure some standard that would prevent so many of these deaths caused by overdose.[/QUOTE] Its never safe to abuse drugs you foooool ... and my opinion matters when I am kicking the scruffy drug mess bastards down the street back to where they live.
[QUOTE=sami-elite;32458141]Sorry i have social healthcare. When i need it, i get it, but when people fuck around, they also get it. And i meant drugs like desomorphine (crocodile), meth and crack. Every other pure form of drug should be available. [editline]24th September 2011[/editline] Portugal has it. Even legalized heroin.[/QUOTE] Desomorphine only came about because of the increased difficulty in getting heroin. In essence the war on drugs created a whole new monster. If it was legal desomorphine would never have been a viable alternative to addicts.
I think legalization of the "biggest" drugs at least is a good idea. Tho legalization alone wont stop the crime. There must be some kind of governmental control on drugs. Cannabis and other soft drugs should be sold in special outlets with taxes. Tho I don't think selling heroin anywhere is a good idea. A lot of other drugs as well should not be sold, but of course you can't stop it. There should also be a lot more free help for people who need it. And heroin clinics are a good idea. Basically I'm all for making drugs legal so that drug related crime more or less goes away. It wont ever go completely away, but I'm betting it will be a lot better that it is now.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;32490352]It keeps people away from doing the drugs :v:[/QUOTE] These debates are getting nowhere with you, so I'll pose a different question. Have you considered the possibility that you've been brainwashed into heavy bias, or do you consider your arguments to be completely logical, with little to no bias?
[QUOTE=Nick Lomax;32496069]I think legalization of the "biggest" drugs at least is a good idea. Tho legalization alone wont stop the crime.[/QUOTE] I've provided a case as two why it will. To make it clear, legit business will be able to outsell the black market very easily. The majority of drugs are very easy to mass produce, and not having to get around the huge legal barriers also helps lower the costs. A good historical case is this is the cost of alcohol during prohibition. [IMG]http://i52.tinypic.com/2h6rfrn.gif[/IMG] [url]https://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-157.html[/url] What's key to understand is that the high price of illegal goods is what causes crime. To repeat myself from earlier [quote]What incentive does someone have to steal when they are addicted to a product that is very costly as opposed to when they are addicted to a product that is not very costly? [url=]Nicotine for example is addictive as heroin[/url], yet how much is crime is committed by nicotine addicts?[/quote] [QUOTE=Nick Lomax;32496069]There must be some kind of governmental control on drugs. Cannabis and other soft drugs should be sold in special outlets with taxes.[/quote] Why not treat it like alcohol? [QUOTE=Nick Lomax;32496069]Tho I don't think selling heroin anywhere is a good idea. A lot of other drugs as well should not be sold, but of course you can't stop it. There should also be a lot more free help for people who need it. And heroin clinics are a good idea. Basically I'm all for making drugs legal so that drug related crime more or less goes away. It wont ever go completely away, but I'm betting it will be a lot better that it is now.[/QUOTE] Where would people go get heroin then? The clinic? But what if I want to do heroin and don't want to go to a clinic, where would I go? The dealer on the street? I have a right to my own body, why shouldn't I be allowed use a drug that I know the dangers of? Since I own my own body, shouldn't I be liable for my own health?
[QUOTE=Bang2Rights;32494877]Its never safe to abuse drugs you foooool ... and my opinion matters when I am kicking the scruffy drug mess bastards down the street back to where they live.[/QUOTE] Wow, that's your counter argument "WAHHHHHHH Drugs are bad!!!"
[QUOTE=lukepker;32496796]Wow, that's your counter argument "WAHHHHHHH Drugs are bad!!!"[/QUOTE] The guy obviously sees himself as some kind of expert on the matter, I am not quite sad enough to start arguing on the internet. From my own life experience taking illegal drugs and knowing illegal drug users... they don't help anything, all they do is fuck shit up!
[QUOTE=Pepin;32496663]Why not treat it like alcohol?[/QUOTE] Well I'm coming up with how it should be done. And quite frankly, there's no way they are ever going to legalize any drug if the people pushing for it say that it should be sold in every store on every corner. Just because we are legalizing drugs does not mean we need to promote them. Yes yes we do this with alcohol, but it's too late to do anything about it. It's too big of a part of our culture. Why not make drugs a part of our culture? Well to be honest I don't think that's a good idea. It's one thing to legalize drugs but it's another thing to make it as normal to do drugs as it is to drink alcohol. People have a different relationship to alcohol. I don't think the same kind of relationship will be good for drugs. Many are less harmful than alcohol, but many are worse both physically and mentally. [QUOTE=Pepin;32496663]Where would people go get heroin then? The clinic? But what if I want to do heroin and don't want to go to a clinic, where would I go? The dealer on the street?[/QUOTE] Well maybe it should be sold somewhere, but I'm defiantly not up for same "rights" on heroin as weed. I wouldn't want there to be coffeeshops where you could go get some heroin. There would have to be strict laws on commercials, ads, promotion of the harder drugs. Yes people have a right to do what they want with their own body, but that doesn't mean we need to help them decide to do heroin. And once you start doing heroin and get addicted to it, you do have an effect on other peoples lives, so it's not just something you do to your self. To make my point of view short: Drugs should be banned because they are bad, and for no other reason. So that leaves a lot of drugs open for legalization in my mind. (by bad i mean worse than alcohol and cigarettes)
[QUOTE=Nick Lomax;32497408]Well I'm coming up with how it should be done. And quite frankly, there's no way they are ever going to legalize any drug if the people pushing for it say that it should be sold in every store on every corner. Just because we are legalizing drugs does not mean we need to promote them. Yes yes we do this with alcohol, but it's too late to do anything about it. It's too big of a part of our culture. Why not make drugs a part of our culture? Well to be honest I don't think that's a good idea. It's one thing to legalize drugs but it's another thing to make it as normal to do drugs as it is to drink alcohol. People have a different relationship to alcohol. I don't think the same kind of relationship will be good for drugs. Many are less harmful than alcohol, but many are worse both physically and mentally. Well maybe it should be sold somewhere, but I'm defiantly not up for same "rights" on heroin as weed. I wouldn't want there to be coffeeshops where you could go get some heroin. There would have to be strict laws on commercials, ads, promotion of the harder drugs. Yes people have a right to do what they want with their own body, but that doesn't mean we need to help them decide to do heroin. And once you start doing heroin and get addicted to it, you do have an effect on other peoples lives, so it's not just something you do to your self. To make my point of view short: Drugs should be banned because they are bad, and for no other reason. So that leaves a lot of drugs open for legalization in my mind. (by bad i mean worse than alcohol and cigarettes)[/QUOTE] This guy just put my thoughts into words... fuckin' words man!
legalization of all drugs. Its my right to do what ever I please with my body.
[QUOTE=Bang2Rights;32494877]Its never safe to abuse drugs you foooool ... and my opinion matters when I am kicking the scruffy drug mess bastards down the street back to where they live.[/QUOTE] You just sound like a real idiot when you say this. [editline]26th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Nick Lomax;32497408]Well I'm coming up with how it should be done. [B]And quite frankly, there's no way they are ever going to legalize any drug if the people pushing for it say that it should be sold in every store on every corner. [/B]Just because we are legalizing drugs does not mean we need to promote them. Yes yes we do this with alcohol, but it's too late to do anything about it. It's too big of a part of our culture. Why not make drugs a part of our culture? Well to be honest I don't think that's a good idea. It's one thing to legalize drugs but it's another thing to make it as normal to do drugs as it is to drink alcohol. People have a different relationship to alcohol. I don't think the same kind of relationship will be good for drugs. Many are less harmful than alcohol, but many are worse both physically and mentally. [/QUOTE] Who the fuck wants that and who the fuck is arguing for that. Please, you HAVE to point that out if your argument relies on such unadulterated bullshit. Do you have ANY idea how bad alcohol really is for you? It's physical damage on an addict is worse than heroin on an addict. So you're just happy to have a government with a double standard that is CAUSING crime through having this shit illegal uselessly? [QUOTE=Nick Lomax;32497408] Well maybe it should be sold somewhere, but I'm defiantly not up for same "rights" on heroin as weed. I wouldn't want there to be coffeeshops where you could go get some heroin. [/QUOTE] Nice assumption. Why would this exist unless a demand was there for it? Oh, right, because drugs don't work under normal market conditions and create shit that people want to be mad at. [/sacrasm] [QUOTE=Nick Lomax;32497408] There would have to be strict laws on commercials, ads, promotion of the harder drugs. Yes people have a right to do what they want with their own body, but that doesn't mean we need to help them decide to do heroin.[/QUOTE] Do you understand what the laws around alcohol and tobacco advertisement is? I'm guessing not. Having it legal isn't helping people decide that they want to, they can decide that now perfectly fine bud. [QUOTE=Nick Lomax;32497408] And once you start doing heroin and get addicted to it, you do have an effect on other peoples lives, so it's not just something you do to your self. [/QUOTE] Sure you do, but that's not a legal point or else, legally, you don't own your body and the rest of us do. Go fetch my socks. [QUOTE=Nick Lomax;32497408] To make my point of view short: Drugs should be banned because they are bad, and for no other reason. So that leaves a lot of drugs open for legalization in my mind. (by bad i mean worse than alcohol and cigarettes)[/QUOTE] Uh, so, your moral decision > the rest of ours. Right, nope. Also, cigarettes are the worst of the bunch basically, so, it's hypocritical to have that legal and anything else illegal. [editline]26th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Bang2Rights;32497534]This guy just put my thoughts into words... fuckin' words man![/QUOTE] Why do you post in a debate forum when your form of debating isn't posting your own arguments at all? [editline]26th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Bang2Rights;32497102]The guy obviously sees himself as some kind of expert on the matter, I am not quite sad enough to start arguing on the internet. From my own life experience taking illegal drugs and knowing illegal drug users... they don't help anything, all they do is fuck shit up![/QUOTE] I love how you look at someone elses anecdotal experience and say "LOL FUCK NO YOU DUMBASS I'M RIGHT YOU WRONG!" using your own anecdotal experience as a basis of that argument. From MY experience with drug users, anyone of them that could get through addiction is a better person than you. And most could. [editline]26th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=MrJazzy;32490999]How trustable are those numbers though, and sure they may have risen but that's because of other things and it would definitely rise even more if made legal.[/QUOTE] Considering their government numbers and their going against what they want, their probably underestimating what the real number is, so i'm not too worried.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;32500746]You just sound like a real idiot when you say this. I love how you look at someone elses anecdotal experience and say "LOL FUCK NO YOU DUMBASS I'M RIGHT YOU WRONG!" using your own anecdotal experience as a basis of that argument. From MY experience with drug users, anyone of them that could get through addiction is a better person than you. And most could[/QUOTE] I can only speak of my own experience and I have never seen any good come from taking drugs so I cant see why they should be made legal.. also anyone that could begin using and getting heavily addicted to heroin is already a weaker person than me anyway.
[QUOTE=Bang2Rights;32501632]I can only speak of my own experience and I have never seen any good come from taking drugs so I cant see why they should be made legal.. also anyone that could begin using and getting heavily addicted to heroin is already a weaker person than me anyway.[/QUOTE] Morphine. (Morphine is Heroin by the way) And you've been arguing the same thing over and over again.
Does anyone actually know someone that does Heroin or Crack with responsibility?
I get the feeling hardly any of the people posting in this thread know anyone who are using or have had to grow up with parents addicted to heroin or crack... At least when they are illegal many people refuse to take them... every time I post I get some smart answer but if I am wrong then someone tell me a success story regarding addiction to illegal drugs, how in anyway it benefited their life?
[QUOTE=Bang2Rights;32503734]I get the feeling hardly any of the people posting in this thread know anyone who are using or have had to grow up with parents addicted to heroin or crack... At least when they are illegal many people refuse to take them... every time I post I get some smart answer but if I am wrong then someone tell me a success story regarding addiction to illegal drugs, how in anyway it benefited their life?[/QUOTE]Oh my god man, you don't quit. I'll post again when I think of how to answer this.
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