[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44781954]We should do away with the lower standards set for white people and "White Quotas" set up governments and businesses.[/QUOTE]
The point of affirmative action is not to have 1 white judge, 1 black judge, 1 Asian judge, etc. The point is to give those who actually have the skills and abilities, but are not considered due to not 'looking the part' because of their ethnicity, a chance to work. For decades and centuries minorities have been faced with discrimination, and just because those laws are no longer enforced doesn't mean that the attitudes behind them mysteriously disappeared as well. It is a temporary way to 'equalise' the job prospects, by balancing out prejudice with legal statute.
When you understand that, you will hopefully realize that positive discrimination is an attempt to tackle this bias and level the playing field so it isn't necessary any more later once everyone realises white men aren't the only ones who can do that job.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44781578]"people who point out racism are the real racists"[/QUOTE]
Sometimes, yeah? Like around each of the past couple of presidential elections I've gone through:
"YOU'RE A RACIST."
"No, actually I just don't agree with his policies or-"
"RACISSSSSST!"
[QUOTE=gk99;44782006]Lets fix Affirmative Action and put it on a per-need basis first.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44781997]
"guys, stop focusing on the fact that there's a 'white' and a 'negro' drinking fountain! you are only making it worse by pointing it out!" ?[/QUOTE]
The example of fountains. You don't move in the direction of equality by making the "colored" fountain better. You do away with it by not treating people differently based on their race and not having separate fountains to begin with.
Treat people equally and only judge them on the content of their character or skills. Positive discrimination based on race is racism.
We shouldn't be trying to help poor blacks out of poverty. We should be putting an effort into getting all poor people out of poverty.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44781997]That has nothing to do with the meaning behind his fallacious argument.
If you went back 60 years in time, would you tell the anti-apartheid people "guys, stop focusing on the fact that there's a 'white' and a 'negro' drinking fountain! you are only making it worse by pointing it out!" ?
Do you think the results of the civil rights movement could have been reached if people just "stopped making race an issue" which basically equates to "let's just ignore it" ?
Sure, it's great for educated people to say "hey let's stop talking about race and race will cease to be an idea that exists", there will always be bigoted people who will pass down from generation to generation racist ideas. The only way you can stop that happening is through awareness.[/QUOTE]
Well yeah those were real issues, I was talking about people who needlessly make a race issue out of petty things such as footwear, on behalf of black people no less
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44782051]The example of fountains. You don't move in the direction of equality by making the "colored" fountain better. You do away with it by not treating people differently based on their race and not having separate fountains to begin with.
Treat people equally and only judge them on the content of their character. Positive discrimination based on race is racism.[/QUOTE]
but having a separate fountain would be like having a separate job god this analogy is fucking stupid
i mean just listen to yourself. you're literally saying that affirmative action is on par with racial segregation and stripping minorities of their civil rights. even assuming that affirmative action is a problem (it isn't), it could never in a thousand years get to be so bad, so systemic, as that. if you really think that they're on the same level, i seriously question if you know what affirmative action actually is.
[QUOTE=Laputa;44782090]Well yeah those were real issues, I was talking about people who needlessly make a race issue out of petty things such as footwear, on behalf of black people no less[/QUOTE]
Okay, where do those people exist outside of your personal anecdotes and strawmen stories?
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;44781362]That's pretty much my position on it. I haven't had any part in oppressing another minority so everyone who expects me to feel guilty for slavery can suck it.[/QUOTE]
are you a white cis straight male? because if so, guess what: you have absolutely taken part in oppression.
but the thing is, your participation was pretty much involuntary, so you should be as angry about it as any oppressed group. it's hard to admit privilege, but ultimately it's our responsibility to do so.
the concept of privilege isn't "oh what was that you're white then FUCK YOU," and you have severely misunderstood if you think it is. it just means that you should acknowledge that you have it better than some others through circumstances entirely outside of your control, and that you should also consider the problems of people with equally little control over their situation.
nobody expects you to emasculate yourself with a spork, and nobody expects you to join FEMEN; you just have to be a nice and considerate person. nobody is going to lynch you for making mistakes, you just have to acknowledge it when you make them. this is literally basic, common decency we're talking about here, and it really isn't that hard to keep up.
and not only that, it's about making people empathize, like, you have so many white middle class people saying that blacks in the ghetto are lazy and that's why they're on benefits or commit crimes and shit like that because they just can't empathize with the fact that their privileged view of society and life is completely different from an unprivileged persons
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;44782109]Okay, where do those people exist outside of your personal anecdotes and strawmen stories?[/QUOTE]
I'm sure you could find many examples of stupid shit twisted into racism by stupid people, fuck it's not like I think it's a problem or anything, they're insignificant, it has no bearing on real issues, I mean yeah it was a mere anecdote of an absurd experience but my point still stands
[QUOTE=Devodiere;44779424]Even ignoring that stuff, there are some big branding problems in it. It's the same problem as with most awareness charities where people contribute time and effort and they feel better because they did something, but they didn't actually help solve the problem.
There are some people out there doing good stuff, but most of it seems to hurt more than it helps and this kind of thing is just divisive crap when it should be such an easy sell.
Oh is that what you meant, then why didn't everyone say that in the first place? If it's about a lack of social mobility for black people then why are people complaining about white people not realising how good they have it? Does white-guilt solve economic problems in some way I'm not aware of?
I'm not retarded since a simple Google of the median household income by race shows it a lot simpler, because my argument wasn't that such inequality isn't there. The issue is that this kind of "Check your Privilege" argument is vague to the point of confusion, proposes no solutions to any of these problems, and relies on a holistic view of a racial hierarchy which is such a wishy-washy thing to rely on when there are so many far simpler and straightforward things.
Of course if you brought up things like low social mobility for black people, you might have a hard time selling to white people that they should feel guilty about it, since they'll ask how exactly that helps the problem.[/QUOTE]
The whole idea with privilege isn't to guilt those who have privilege, its to make them aware that they have advantages (or more likely lack disadvantages) purely because of their race/gender/etc.
Social mobility is just one example of that.
Part of the reason why it is important to realize this is because of 'color-blind racism' that people end up doing. What I mean by being 'color-blind' is trying ignore race all-together in an attempt to treat everyone equally. At first, this seems like a good idea because treating everyone equally is good. But what it ends up doing is generally denying race as a factor for affecting someone's social status.
Here is a study that goes a bit into color-blind racism if anyone is interested.
[URL]http://www33.homepage.villanova.edu/edward.fierros/pdf/bonilla~silva~because.pdf[/URL]
[QUOTE=TheTalon;44779982]People in some parts of the world are just better people than in other parts.
There's places in Africa you could air drop hammers and hatchets and other tools so they can build better homes and shit for themselves and they'll just beat each other to death with them instead[/QUOTE]
Probably because we destroyed their cultures and then left them with stupid borders because we didn't care enough to not cause border conflicts.
if anything, NOT being one of the people who have actively oppressed others should be a calling to actually go out and do something. do you REALLY expect the people who ACTUALLY had the audacity to oppress other human beings to suddenly become social activists? no, that's why you have to help.
sorry, your "i didn't do it!!!" excuse is fucking bullshit and not reasonable at all.
[QUOTE=Masterofstars;44782232]Probably because we destroyed their cultures and then left them with stupid borders because we didn't care enough to not cause border conflicts.[/QUOTE]
When the British Empire was a thing we improved some of the places we controlled (still fucked up the population thanks to slavery and generally shitiness), when we left we didn't really leave instructions or anything, most of the places had no idea what to do without us being their leaders as we made sure the lower classes never learned such things.
We [B]really[/B] fucked these places up through our actions as an empire. Makes me wonder where some of the LEDCs would be if we hadn't just bounced out of them so suddenly and actually attempted a proper transition.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44782256]if anything, NOT being one of the people who have actively oppressed others should be a calling to actually go out and do something. do you REALLY expect the people who ACTUALLY had the audacity to oppress other human beings to suddenly become social activists? no, that's why you have to help.
sorry, your "i didn't do it!!!" excuse is fucking bullshit and not reasonable at all.[/QUOTE]
Exactly what should I do then?
Somehow become an employer out of the blue and hire LGBT people? Go outside parading the streets in my dead little town?
Most I can do is whine on the internet that does nothing.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44782256]if anything, NOT being one of the people who have actively oppressed others should be a calling to actually go out and do something. do you REALLY expect the people who ACTUALLY had the audacity to oppress other human beings to suddenly become social activists? no, that's why you have to help.
sorry, your "i didn't do it!!!" excuse is fucking bullshit and not reasonable at all.[/QUOTE]trying to force people to become social activists doesn't help and just pisses them off.
I didn't do shit, I'm not apologizing for anything because I didn't do anything wrong and shouldn't be guilted into thinking I have.
i get that this is satire but even if you're not oppressed it's the biggest waste of time 'apologizing' for your fucking skin colour
[QUOTE=Killer900;44782350]trying to force people to become social activists doesn't help and just pisses them off.
I didn't do shit, I'm not apologizing for anything because I didn't do anything wrong and shouldn't be guilted into thinking I have.[/QUOTE]
And nobody is trying to guilt you in to thinking you've oppressed others. We have to explain this Every. Fucking. Thread. No, instead just recognising "hey, I have it easier than minorities, I should be aware of that and not treat them like shit when they get put down" is progress enough. When a black guy with the right skills isn't hired because an equally skilled white guy is about, don't straight away blame the black guy for not trying hard enough for example.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;44782345]Exactly what should I do then?
Somehow become an employer out of the blue and hire LGBT people? Go outside parading the streets in my dead little town?
Most I can do is whine on the internet that does nothing.[/QUOTE]
First of all, not be American.
So you're good. Live life.
Leave it to the YouTube comment section to completely fail at giving respectful arguments/opinions towards the video and instead just make legitimately racist comments all day
white people got it rough i guess
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44782271]When the British Empire was a thing we improved some of the places we controlled (still fucked up the population thanks to slavery and generally shitiness), when we left we didn't really leave instructions or anything, most of the places had no idea what to do without us being their leaders as we made sure the lower classes never learned such things.
We [B]really[/B] fucked these places up through our actions as an empire. Makes me wonder where some of the LEDCs would be if we hadn't just bounced out of them so suddenly and actually attempted a proper transition.[/QUOTE]
britain's colonisation was far less damaging than that of p. much every empire except maybe france. look at germany, belgium, portugal for some easy examples.
Oh boy the victim Olympics have started.
Only race that has actually proved disadvantage on all members of it that is legal, promoted, and seen as positive is "whites". Mediterraneans? Scandinavians? Russian? Who knows! If your skin colour is white, don't hope to get the same chances to get into university as otherwise on equal marks.
Then when the African who actually had top marks gets out of uni and gets fucked over, because now there is an actual basis to say that Asians and Caucasians are worth more since they were held to higher standards to achieve the same, so now Africans are viewed as even less employable and prejudice against them is magnified. So in the end, not judging purely on merits and abilities fucks everyone over. Who'd have thought?
I just wish the US kept their civilization decadence phase to themselves and didn't try to spread it all over the world.
[QUOTE=CheeseMan;44782500]britain's colonisation was far less damaging than that of p. much every empire except maybe france. look at germany, belgium, portugal for some easy examples.[/QUOTE]
The German Empire had a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shark_Island_Concentration_Camp"]concentration camp[/URL] in the early in 1900s.
This video is promoting superiority to white people and males.
[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;44782591]The German Empire had a [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shark_Island_Concentration_Camp"]concentration camp[/URL] in the early in 1900s.[/QUOTE]
The British were by far the "best" Imperialists. Even the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1902_Lodge_Committee_investigating_Philippine-American_war_crimes#Alleged_war_crimes"]US[/URL] wasn't much of an angel. I'm not sure why France is getting so much praise.
[QUOTE=acds;44782582]
Only race that has actually proved disadvantage on all members of it that is legal, promoted, and seen as positive is "whites". Mediterraneans? Scandinavians? Russian? Who knows! If your skin colour is white, don't hope to get the same chances to get into university as otherwise on equal marks. [/QUOTE]
Well we know "white" people in the US don't get the same chances as Hispanics or African-Americans because there is statistical proof that college enrollment, admission, and graduation rates are higher.
Maybe it's different in Sweden but here in the "decadent" United States, by all objective measures, whites (and Asians) have a substantial educational advantage on other minorities, even in places where affirmative action is still in place.
I recommend watching black dick white chick videos for the comedy, bonus if it's an enormous dick
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/22olRnn.png?1[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;44782754]Well we know "white" people in the US don't get the same chances as Hispanics or African-Americans because there is statistical proof that college enrollment, admission, and graduation rates are higher.
Maybe it's different in Sweden but here in the "decadent" United States, by all objective measures, whites (and Asians) have a substantial educational advantage on other minorities, even in places where affirmative action is still in place.[/QUOTE]
Same asians you enslaved to build the railways that helped build your country?
[editline]11th May 2014[/editline]
Nice way of saying thanks.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;44783006]Same asians you enslaved to build the railways that helped build your country?
[editline]11th May 2014[/editline]
Nice way of saying thanks.[/QUOTE]
Not the ones I enslaved personally. Putting them through college would have cost too much. I gave them Olive Garden gift cards.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44782256]if anything, NOT being one of the people who have actively oppressed others should be a calling to actually go out and do something. do you REALLY expect the people who ACTUALLY had the audacity to oppress other human beings to suddenly become social activists? no, that's why you have to help.
sorry, your "i didn't do it!!!" excuse is fucking bullshit and not reasonable at all.[/QUOTE]
and in comes one of the extremist, ridiculous view points that no one can fucking take seriously.
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