• Code Pink Calls Marines "War Criminals"
    166 replies, posted
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;19391981]Well for one I wouldn't be alive. And yeah because the US cared soooo much about those Jews before we went into the war, that was totally the reason for us joining, just like the blacks were in the Civil War right?[/QUOTE] Yea seriously. We didn't enter the war to stop Jew Killing, we entered to secure power. WW2 is the reason the USA is the biggest Empire right now. [editline]03:43AM[/editline] [QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;19392022]Pretty sure that quote wasn't said by any Marine. It was said by Ewelyn Beatrice Hall, and sometimes falsely attributed to Voltaire. Who's ass did you pull that out of?[/QUOTE] Some marine somewhere probably said it at one point.
[QUOTE=killa101;19390940]Yeah WWII was an unjust war, the marines could have let hitler kill every jew on the face of the planet. That's okay.[/QUOTE] Nobody even knew about the Holocaust until the end of the war. That wasn't even a factor in why anybody joined the war.
theyre making communism rediculous :'(
That quote was said by Voltaire, a 18th century philosophe and intellectual. One of the great thinkers. [b]He thought it was a quote from a marine.[/b] Tells you something.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;19391981]Well for one I wouldn't be alive. And yeah because the US cared soooo much about those Jews before we went into the war, that was totally the reason for us joining, just like the blacks were in the Civil War right?[/QUOTE] I get the feeling you are being controversial for the sake of being controversial. Just imagine what would have happened to Europe had the Nazis been allowed to control such a supremely strategic location. The ideology that the Nazis upheld was one of the most grotesque, barbarous and catastrophic the world has seen. War is a horrible thing, but sometimes you have to fight an evil battle to stop evil people. [QUOTE=yawmwen;19391881]Are you joking? We outright provoked the Japanese into attacking us. Our Government [b]wanted[/b] it. Do you know about the Embargo we made on Japan? [/QUOTE] Do you understand what Japan was doing to China? Invading territories and massacring innocent people. Japan was lead by a bunch of militaristic whackjobs who thought they were a supreme race (hmm... this sounds familiar). So yes, the embargo was justified to try and stop Japan from continuuing its actions, but instead the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour in a show of force in order to secure more land and show the Americans that they weren't to be messed with in the Pacific Theatre. In hindsight that was a dumb idea. although the Japanese would have been convinced they could take on America given their recent, amazing successes in China.
No you just can't realize that you're calling Nazi's evil like they were any different from British, French, Italians, Soviets, and Americans yes Americans. Their leaders were no different from ours. Their ideology was just as split and opinionated as anyone else's. No one is any less "evil" and if you really believe that you've watched too many war movies.
[QUOTE=combine487;19394290] Do you understand what Japan was doing to China? Invading territories and massacring innocent people. Japan was lead by a bunch of militaristic whackjobs who thought they were a supreme race (hmm... this sounds familiar). So yes, the embargo was justified to try and stop Japan from continuuing its actions, but instead the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour in a show of force in order to secure more land and show the Americans that they weren't to be messed with in the Pacific Theatre. In hindsight that was a dumb idea. although the Japanese would have been convinced they could take on America given their recent, amazing successes in China.[/QUOTE] So it's our job to go in and make sure everyone is doing the right thing? What makes the USA so high and mighty that they can tell every other nation on Earth what they can and cannot do?
Oh I don't know. Does a guy who is walking by a person getting mugged really have to help them out and fend off their attacker? No. They don't have to, but it is not a bad thing to do.
I Hope these fucknuts die in a horrible way.
[QUOTE=redonkulous;19395200]Oh I don't know. Does a guy who is walking by a person getting mugged really have to help them out and fend off their attacker? No. They don't have to, but it is not a bad thing to do.[/QUOTE] If it results in another person's death then it is moral [i]not[/i] to stop the mugger.
Well in the case we are talking about it results in the Chinese innocent people getting killed should nobody intervene. Should you find yourself in a situation of "kill the victim through inaction" or "Save the victim and kill the attacker", which would you choose? There was no "Kill nobody and make the world a happy rainbow fairyland" option.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;19394833]So it's our job to go in and make sure everyone is doing the right thing? What makes the USA so high and mighty that they can tell every other nation on Earth what they can and cannot do?[/QUOTE] There comes a time in an argument when you know you are wrong. You should see it before you make yourself look anymore stupid and ridiculous than you already do. [editline]12:45AM[/editline] [QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;19394470]No you just can't realize that you're calling Nazi's evil like they were any different from British, French, Italians, Soviets, and Americans yes Americans. Their leaders were no different from ours. Their ideology was just as split and opinionated as anyone else's. No one is any less "evil" and if you really believe that you've watched too many war movies.[/QUOTE] I don't believe the Nazis were evil. I know a lot of Nazi soldiers didn't want to be fighting as did a lot of Allied soldiers didn't want to ether. I think a lot of things about the Nazi culture is pretty interesting. However, I believe their leader was insane and needed to be stopped. Hitler was also a marvelous man, and had he used his "powers" for "good", he would have changed the world for the better. But he didn't. [quote] Their leaders were no different from ours.[/quote] I don't recall Roosevelt or Churchill wanting to eradicate all Jews, cripples, gypsies, homosexuals, and other categories of people, or believing that their people belonged to a superior race that was destined to rule the world. Please inform me if I am wrong.
[QUOTE=redonkulous;19395450]Well in the case we are talking about it results in the Chinese innocent people getting killed should nobody intervene. Should you find yourself in a situation of "kill the victim through inaction" or "Save the victim and kill the attacker", which would you choose? There was no "Kill nobody and make the world a happy rainbow fairyland" option.[/QUOTE] I would choose inaction. Being a bystander to evil is much less horrible than being a murderer. [QUOTE=OvB;19395547]There comes a time in an argument when you know you are wrong. You should see it before you make yourself look anymore stupid and ridiculous than you already do. [/QUOTE] No, I think you're the stupid one. You condone killing because someone else doesn't behave the way you want them to.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;19395654]I would choose inaction. Being a bystander to evil is much less horrible than being a murderer. No, I think you're the stupid one. You condone killing because someone else doesn't behave the way you want them to.[/QUOTE] So the genocide and rape of china was justified? but putting an embargo on them because of it was wrong? I fail to see the logic.
[QUOTE=OvB;19395703]So the genocide and rape of china was justified? but putting an embargo on them because of it was wrong? I fail to see the logic.[/QUOTE] No, neither was justified. The Japanese shouldn't have done what they did but that doesn't make it right for us to take an Imperialistic stance against them.
Well you may have that opinion. We didn't HAVE to help the innocents, but we did in hopes that taking lives to take out an evil government will save many more from being taken in the future. The point of a justified war is losing some lives to save many many more.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;19395748]No, neither was justified. The Japanese shouldn't have done what they did but that doesn't make it right for us to take an Imperialistic stance against them.[/QUOTE] A trade embargo vs. genocide... That's like slapping a serialkiller on the wrist.
How is that imperialism? Defend your stance. Imperialism as far as I have ever learned it is taking over countries to harvest their resources or whatever they have to offer, i.e. get some colonies. We did not want to take Japan for a colony. We began helping them rebuild their country and get a better government in place after the war.
[QUOTE=redonkulous;19395751]Well you may have that opinion. We didn't HAVE to help the innocents, but we did in hopes that taking lives to take out an evil government will save many more from being taken in the future. The point of a justified war is losing some lives to save many many more.[/QUOTE] Yea but how much is an innocent life saved versus an innocent life killed(remember that the Allies killed many innocents during the war). Here, I will give you the train problem. You're standing next to a fork in the traintracks, with access to the lever that changes the direction the train will take. The train can not be stopped, and if left as it is, it will run over and kill 5 people standing at the end of the tracks. If, however , you pull the lever the train will change directions, killing the 1 person standing at the end of that fork. What do you do? [editline]06:59AM[/editline] [QUOTE=redonkulous;19395778]How is that imperialism? Defend your stance. Imperialism as far as I have ever learned it is taking over countries to harvest their resources or whatever they have to offer, i.e. get some colonies. We did not want to take Japan for a colony. We began helping them rebuild their country and get a better government in place after the war.[/QUOTE] Imperialism is asserting power either politically or militarily beyond a Nation's borders for the gain of power or resources. The Japanese did some horrible things but was it our place to provoke them into an attack(we didn't embargo them to punish them, we did it so they would attack us eventually and allow us to justify a war against them)? [editline]07:01AM[/editline] [QUOTE=OvB;19395777]A trade embargo vs. genocide... That's like slapping a cerialkiller on the wrist.[/QUOTE] [i]Serial Killer[/i] FYI. I don't think it's the same, because a serial killer is guilty, but were the Japanese citizens who didn't even participate in the military guilty? Even the soldiers, were the ones ordered to kill and destroy guilty?
We pulled the lever. I am not saying we were immaculate in our way of attacking Japan. The Tokyo bombings brought a lot of civilians down, but we were justified in attacking Japan. We did what we thought we had to do to get the job done, and when the war was over we turned around hand helped them rebuild. There is not, nor will there ever be a perfect war, but standing by while people are massacred is a hell of a lot worse.
War and global geopolitics is much more of a complicated subject than you might think. It's not like what most marines think it is, we good they bad.
[QUOTE=redonkulous;19395883]We pulled the lever. I am not saying we were immaculate in our way of attacking Japan. The Tokyo bombings brought a lot of civilians down, but we were justified in attacking Japan. We did what we thought we had to do to get the job done, and when the war was over we turned around hand helped them rebuild. There is not, nor will there ever be a perfect war, but standing by while people are massacred is a hell of a lot worse.[/QUOTE] Video game wars would be the perfect wars! Until hackers come along but still.
[QUOTE=redonkulous;19395883]We pulled the lever. I am not saying we were immaculate in our way of attacking Japan. The Tokyo bombings brought a lot of civilians down, but we were justified in attacking Japan. We did what we thought we had to do to get the job done, and when the war was over we turned around hand helped them rebuild. There is not, nor will there ever be a perfect war, but standing by while people are massacred is a hell of a lot worse.[/QUOTE] And I say that pulling the lever is wrong, because by doing that you are directly killing an innocent person. It is much better to be a bystander to evil rather than a murderer in my opinion, and I will stand by that.
Well you can have your opinion, and nothing that I say will change it, but in my opinion the way of least lives lost is the most noble.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;19395795]Yea but how much is an innocent life saved versus an innocent life killed(remember that the Allies killed many innocents during the war). Here, I will give you the train problem. You're standing next to a fork in the traintracks, with access to the lever that changes the direction the train will take. The train can not be stopped, and if left as it is, it will run over and kill 5 people standing at the end of the tracks. If, however , you pull the lever the train will change directions, killing the 1 person standing at the end of that fork. What do you do?[/QUOTE] In all war collateral damages will happen. There's no getting around that. Even today with all our advanced technology and bombs we can drop through a chimney we still have collateral damage. When you make the decision to go to war you have to ask yourself if the lives you will destroy through your actions will be less than the lives destroyed if you do nothing. And I believe in WWII's case. With Hitler hell bent on destruction and the eradication of billions. And Japan dicking around with China. War was the appropriate response. Try to tell me that Hitler would have stopped his conquest of Europe had we (allied forces) not drawn the line. Tell me Hitler wouldn't have steamrolled his way to Asia. We have to ask ourselves if we did nothing, would the actions of the Axis result in the death of more than 61,000,000 lives. With Japan and Germany both developing atomic bombs, Hitler destroying Innocent lives, who knows. All I know is it would have been bloody had we not done [I]something.[/I] And to answer your question. I would turn the train. In the situation were someone [I]has to die[/I] less is always better than more.
Well least innocent lives lost.
[QUOTE=OvB;19395935]In all war collateral damages will happen. There's no getting around that. Even today with all our advanced technology and bombs we can drop through a chimney we still have collateral damage. When you make the decision to go to war you have to ask yourself if the lives you will destroy through your actions will be less than the lives destroyed if you do nothing. And I believe in WWII's case. With Hitler hell bent on destruction and the eradication of billions. And Japan dicking around with China. War was the appropriate response. [/QUOTE] The Dresden Bombings weren't just collateral damage. It is argued that we actually targeted the civilians.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;19390433]Look I can do that too. All of history started immediately in 1939, WWII happened so suddenly there was nothing the entire fucking world could do about it. We are "good" and they are "bad". We totally would have went into the war without Pearl Harbor because we are righteous. The rest of Europe really really loved Jews unlike Germany. 73,000,000+ human corpses is totally worth it, more people would have died if there wasn't the largest war in mankind. WW2 was completely justified.[/QUOTE] You seem not to understand something. War isn't pretty. It has a cost in lives, money, and property. All true. But what are we supposed to do when somebody attacks us? Sit on our asses and say 'HURR DURR PLEZE BE NISE'? Hell no. There's a reason we're in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, and it sure as hell isn't oil. You cannot survive by inaction. It has a greater cost than any other choice.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;19395974]The Dresden Bombings weren't just collateral damage. It is argued that we actually targeted the civilians.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=redonkulous;19395883] I am not saying we were immaculate in our way of attacking the Axis. We did what we thought we had to do to get the job done, and when the war was over we turned around hand helped them rebuild. There is not, nor will there ever be a perfect war, but standing by while people are massacred is a hell of a lot worse.[/QUOTE] Like I said, we weren't immaculate, but our actions caused a lot less deaths to happen.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;19395923]And I say that pulling the lever is wrong, because by doing that you are directly killing an innocent person. It is much better to be a bystander to evil rather than a murderer in my opinion, and I will stand by that.[/QUOTE] I see what you're going at and I somewhat agree. But I also think if nothing was done, we would have been the ones getting killed [I]eventually[/I]. thus our inaction would be suicidal. Even if we were [I]never[/I] attacked I'm sure everyone else getting attacked would effect the world in such a way that it would effect our lives. And of course we wanted to go to war, the war brought us out of the depression. We just needed a scapegoat to do it. Which is sinister but that's how world politics works.
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