[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;29505834]For law enforcement or government officials they aren't; they're the only ones who can buy that particular example, if you read the text.
[editline]29th April 2011[/editline]
The civilian one on that site costs $10k
[url]http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/machine-guns-class-iii/transferable/p/alltech-ar15-a1-style-223-class-3-transferable-machine-gun-very-good-condition-/cPath/175_696/products_id/4271[/url][/QUOTE]
Aha, I did not read that, well played.
In my country, I haven't seen a gun since I was born, and it's been about 20 years. And no, I didn't get born with a gun pointed at my head.
I'd like to own a firearm though, I'd just wanna try shooting one at least in some harmless way, and I'd sure as fuck feel even a little bit more safe with it.
[QUOTE=JohnStamosFan;29496717]What political action?
I feel like it's a pipe dream to assume that ridding the world of poverty will be the magical cure-all for the problem of violence.
Violence will always exist. It may be lessened, but it will never go away. People will always want what someone else has, and hell, some people will do violent things just because they can, or are mentally unstable.
To say that someone should be expected to rely on less-lethal means (And stun guns and tazers can sometimes kill as well) is a bit silly.
When someone comes into your home with the intention of harming you (and it's never safe to assume they just want your things and to be on their way) then you should be able to respond in a way that keeps you safe. It's sad but true. Guns are a solution.
Because they are the only real way to distance yourself from the attacker, and end the altercation. Unfortunately with deadly results sometimes.
But there's also the idea that someone may have a gun that could help prevent a break in in the first place.
Less lethal is nice as an idea, but until it gets perfected to the point of actually being able to render an attacker non-lethal themselves, it's just not a valid idea.
Even with a security system, you still have 5 to even 30 minutes depending on where you live, to fend for yourself until help arrives. That's time i don't want to spend with someone who for all i know, is bat shit insane.[/QUOTE]
As far as I know, the chances of someone randomly breaking into your house without any motive at all and attempting to kill you are extremely slim. I'd appreciate if we could have a more formal discussion rather than delving into highly unrealistic scenarios, such as yours.
Also, have you ever been tazed, or sprayed by pepper sprays? They are highly efficient against perpetrators, because you can spray or taze them and run away without them being able to do anything about it.
I didn't say ending poverty is going to end EVERY violent crime committed, just the majority of them. I don't see why you are disagreeing me on THIS issue, because ending poverty and having access to guns aren't mutually exclusive. Is there a certain reason to why you would NOT want to fight poverty, which helps fighting crime?
If someone broke into my house I would shoot them on general principle.
For the UK:
Stricter license issuing rules, and more relaxed restrictions on the firearms that can be purchased by license holders. As far as I can tell, many of the major gun related incidents resulting in a tightening of laws were either perpetrated with automatic weapons (already illegal and black market, so would not be affected by tighter gun licensing laws at all), or by people who quite clearly should not have been allowed a license in the first place (which raises some very serious questions about the current license approval system). Sadly, knee-jerking in an attempt to calm the public is more in vogue than, you know, actually making good laws.
[QUOTE=gamefreek76;29503416]There's only one gun law I believe in. The second amendment.
Gun control is a bad joke.
Gun ownership isn't necessarily for self defense, it's to overthrow an unjust and oppressive government.[/QUOTE]
lol
Fig A. Why gun culture in America is seen as being annoying and obnoxious by everyone else
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29509419]lol
Fig A. Why gun culture in America is seen as being annoying and obnoxious by everyone else[/QUOTE]
Well then, I guess that's [I]too fucking bad[/I] for everyone else.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29509419]lol
Fig A. Why gun culture in America is seen as being annoying and obnoxious by everyone else[/QUOTE]
American's are the types of people that don't care what others think, because we have the guns to back up our beliefs.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29509419]lol
Fig A. Why gun culture in America is seen as being annoying and obnoxious by everyone else[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's annoying.
Marijuana culture is seen as being annoying and obnoxious by everyone else.
The american people aren't overthrowing shit ever.
They are too much of middle class armchair patriots for that :v:
[QUOTE=V12US;29503333]Better legalize murder too, then. The law doesn't really hold criminals back from murdering people, anyway.
And if you need a gun to protect yourself, I seriously have to question why you still live in the US. If a sane person felt threathened enough to the point where he might want to carry a gun, he would get the fuck out of there. It's one of those fucked up things that Americans think is perfectly normal.[/QUOTE]
Murder happens anywhere, and most of the time for no reason.
And I would like to be able to have something for self-defense.
I think the local laws are fine: You're allowed to get a gun licence for sports / hunting, and the self-defence law allows you to protect yourself with a gun(situation based). However what i find to be a problem is the fact that you're not allowed to carry a gun with you in the public, Nor allowed to use it DIRECTLY to self-defence. Drawing gun = using gun. Basically, You cannot use gun to prevent situation, You can only use it to stop ongoing violence, and it has to be the only method that could be used. Any possible variations of actions are considered in the court when or if you end in there.(which is a problem, because this way the shootter ends up in jail almost always)
I think people should be educated on how guns are used in self-defence situations, As most of the people who has been in such situations just fire away with no remorse, which will of course end in a mess in the court room and will be labeled as manslaughter case. Actually overall people around here aren't really educated on the laws, Nor don't really know that there's problems in it and because of that aren't really demanding anykind of changes.
But this doesn't really affect me, The local fights don't really have guns in them. It's just drunken guys talking crap and trying to start a fight. It's more likely to see a knife than a gun in the public. And i do live in a place with bad reputation.
I mean, I don't have a direct need for a gun. However if i wanted one, I could get it in a month or so. Of course i'd get a .22lr for start, and after a year i could try to get lets say a 9mm. However "inproper and irresponsible use of gun" would result in losing any guns you may own, and obviously never touching one again.
Also i should probably say that the local gun laws are prety much tied with the service, You cannot own a gun if you're not in the reserve. So if you've decided around the age of 18 to not do the reserve military service because cops are pigs and ANARCHY FUCK YEAH etc, and lets say that at the age of 25 you'd wish to get a gun -Well guess what? You can't. Because the law says that you got to do it, And the only way to avoid it is to have somekind of deformation, sickness or phobia(basically retards, lunatics & pussies). However even if this was the case, You most likely will have to serve 12 months as a babysitter or such, or go to the jail(no you may not collect 200€).
So yeah, Such are gunlaws in Finland.
[editline]29th April 2011[/editline]
I also wish to bring up a question in this thread,
If the local laws do not allow anykind of guns, And you know that you're going to be danger then why not just get an illegal gun? It's not like it matters if a situation is going to occur.
[QUOTE=Big Orca;29491513]I'm a liberal, but I fucking love guns.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck do Americans think "liberalism" is? I don't get it. Every day on Facepunch I see people posting about "liberals" and being "a liberal"... but I have no idea what the US seems to think this entails.
What I have quoted here implies that you think being a liberal means you shouldn't like firearms... what the fuck does that have to do with liberalism?
I just gotta ask you people who are pro-firearms and are argumenting with "It's good for protecting your home and property etc. etc."
Would you be able to live with the blood of another man on your hands for something as trivial as some of your earthly belongings? I could see that you would like your stuff not being stolen, but killing someone for it?
inb4 box rain
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;29512223]I just gotta ask you people who are pro-firearms and are argumenting with "It's good for protecting your home and property etc. etc."
Would you be able to live with the blood of another man on your hands for something as trivial as some of your earthly belongings? I could see that you would like your stuff not being stolen, but killing someone for it?
inb4 box rain[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't kill a man for a TV, Not even if i could get away with it. But then again i also think that one passing on your property is completely different than one breaking into your house in intention to kill.
Reminds me of the case of that japanese student/tourist who tried to get some directions from the locals and were fatally shot for passing on ones land. This of course happened in the land of free. You know guns are tools, But they're powerful tools and you should use them responsively.
Thinking that you have right to shoot someone for passing on your land only shows that you're a fanatic and wish a "violent situation" to occur SO you could use the gun.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;29512223]I just gotta ask you people who are pro-firearms and are argumenting with "It's good for protecting your home and property etc. etc."
Would you be able to live with the blood of another man on your hands for something as trivial as some of your earthly belongings? I could see that you would like your stuff not being stolen, but killing someone for it?
inb4 box rain[/QUOTE]
Yes
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;29512223]I just gotta ask you people who are pro-firearms and are argumenting with "It's good for protecting your home and property etc. etc."
Would you be able to live with the blood of another man on your hands for something as trivial as some of your earthly belongings? I could see that you would like your stuff not being stolen, but killing someone for it?
inb4 box rain[/QUOTE]
Wow, you said something that wasn't COMPLETELY stupid; I'm pretty freakin' impressed right now.
...You're still a tool though.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;29512223]I just gotta ask you people who are pro-firearms and are argumenting with "It's good for protecting your home and property etc. etc."
Would you be able to live with the blood of another man on your hands for something as trivial as some of your earthly belongings? I could see that you would like your stuff not being stolen, but killing someone for it?
inb4 box rain[/QUOTE]
Whoever said we're going to kill somebody over it? The protection is there if you need to use it against someone who wishes to harm you, and it's also a deterrent to somebody who wants to avoid violence.
[QUOTE=gamefreek76;29509499]American's are the types of people that don't care what others think, because we have the guns to back up our beliefs.[/QUOTE]
If you need guns to support your beliefs, your beliefs are stupid
[QUOTE=Explosions;29509736]I don't think it's annoying.
Marijuana culture is seen as being annoying and obnoxious by everyone else.[/QUOTE]
Did I ever say it wasn't
[QUOTE=Siminov;29512451]Yes[/QUOTE]
I loathe this kind of valuing on human life; I think there's something wrong with people valuing their fucking wallets over a human life, I seriously do.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29512540]If you need guns to support your beliefs, your beliefs are stupid[/QUOTE]
Ehhh no not really
On the scale of "We should appropriate more money to schools" sure. But when it comes down to "we want independence" vs. "too fucking bad" there's really only one way the issue is going to be settled.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;29512223]I just gotta ask you people who are pro-firearms and are argumenting with "It's good for protecting your home and property etc. etc."
Would you be able to live with the blood of another man on your hands for something as trivial as some of your earthly belongings? I could see that you would like your stuff not being stolen, but killing someone for it?
inb4 box rain[/QUOTE]
You seem to have the misconception that using a gun = shooting somebody. It doesn't work like that.
You can stop most criminals simply by brandishing a weapon. I'd just hold said criminal at gunpoint, call the cops, and let them haul him away.
Problem solved. Nobody died, and I still have my shit.
or "we want you out of office because you're fucking up our lives" vs. "too fucking bad"
both of those instances are why the second amendment exists
I was going to say it seems far-fetched today but hell, look at Libya now
[QUOTE=V12US;29503333]Better legalize murder too, then. The law doesn't really hold criminals back from murdering people, anyway.
And if you need a gun to protect yourself, I seriously have to question why you still live in the US. If a sane person felt threathened enough to the point where he might want to carry a gun, he would get the fuck out of there. It's one of those fucked up things that Americans think is perfectly normal.[/QUOTE]
So what you're saying, is that if I accept the chance at any time I could be attacked, I should move? Why would anyone go through that much trouble to protect themselves? And America isn't the only place on Earth where crime exists.
[editline]29th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29512558]I loathe this kind of valuing on human life; I think there's something wrong with people valuing their fucking wallets over a human life, I seriously do.[/QUOTE]
If you got robbed and in defense pulled out a firearm, that does not any any way mean that you're going to immediately put them down. Guns can be used as a deterrent.
[QUOTE=papu2;29512004]
If the local laws do not allow anykind of guns, And you know that you're going to be danger then why not just get an illegal gun? It's not like it matters if a situation is going to occur.[/QUOTE]
Afterward when you get arrested and sent to federal prison for "murdering" a mugger with your illegal gun I think you might realize the problem with that argument.
Criminals don't buy guns/legally register them for the most part so gun control laws do next to nothing to stop crime. There are just too many guns already here to make a ban feasible. ("Here" being the US).
As for the "Where do you live in the US where you feel threatened enough to want a gun?" someone asked earlier. College is the answer. I know a kid at Harvard who was mugged at gun point and then [i]shot at by the mugger as he ran off[/i] and 3 weeks ago 4 students were robbed at gunpoint [i]inside their dorm room[/i] here at UNC. Saying "just avoid bad neighborhoods dumbass" is naive of you. Criminals go to where they can find easy targets and since concealed carry/firearm ownership is illegal on every college campus that I know of there isn't a shortage of crime there. I'm not saying allowing all students to carry every where would fix the problem but at the same time this seems like a pretty obvious case of criminals taking advantage of a population they know will very likely be unarmed.
[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;29512655]
If you got robbed and in defense pulled out a firearm, that does not any any way mean that you're going to immediately put them down. Guns can be used as a deterrent.[/QUOTE]
Read the quote. He blatantly said "yes" when asked if he could live with the knowledge of having killed a human being. He didn't even say "yes, if...", or "only if I was forced to", he said "yes" without any doubt at all as if killing a robber were a fucking achievement. That's a disgusting view on human life.
The problem with guns is in the american attitudes. After that, the laws.
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29512791]Read the quote. He blatantly said "yes" when asked if he could live with the knowledge of having killed a human being. He didn't even say "yes, if...", or "only if I was forced to", he said "yes" without any doubt at all as if killing a robber were a fucking achievement. That's a disgusting view on human life.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that was kind of messed up, but that only really applies with that kind of scenario. If a bunch of guys break into your home in the middle of the night, you're going to have a very hard time figuring out their true motive, whether it's a simple burglary, or intent to kill.
And even then, most cases of self defense with a firearm that involves the death of the criminal is usually caused by the criminal's actions, whether it means the guy charged at the gun-toting man, or some other movement that threatened the innocent person's life. Now it could be debatable on whether that specific act really was life threatening, but that's beside the point.
[QUOTE=Paintcheck;29512689]Afterward when you get arrested and sent to federal prison for "murdering" a mugger with your illegal gun I think you might realize the problem with that argument.
Criminals don't buy guns/legally register them for the most part so gun control laws do next to nothing to stop crime. There are just too many guns already here to make a ban feasible. ("Here" being the US).
As for the "Where do you live in the US where you feel threatened enough to want a gun?" someone asked earlier. College is the answer. I know a kid at Harvard who was mugged at gun point and then [i]shot at by the mugger as he ran off[/i] and 3 weeks ago 4 students were robbed at gunpoint [i]inside their dorm room[/i] here at UNC. Saying "just avoid bad neighborhoods dumbass" is naive of you. Criminals go to where they can find easy targets and since concealed carry/firearm ownership is illegal on every college campus that I know of there isn't a shortage of crime there. I'm not saying allowing all students to carry every where would fix the problem but at the same time this seems like a pretty obvious case of criminals taking advantage of a population they know will very likely be unarmed.[/QUOTE]
Obviously people should fight against totaliar changes in the law, However i still think it's better be sent to prison than be dead. But with the post you quoted i mostly meant something like having trouble with the organized crime(a hitman) or having your ex-husband after you, rather than lunatics on the road. You know a situation which you know is going to occur.
Besides, Let's get real about this: Most likely if no one sees you commit such an act, And the gun isn't registered, You most likely aren't going to get caught unless you leave obvious tracks behind you, And with criminals being what they are, The shootting is most likely going to be labeled as gang shootting when they see the body with a gun in its hand and check the backgrounds just to findout that its a gangmember or something.
[QUOTE=Falchion;29513053]The problem with guns is in the american attitudes. After that, the laws.[/QUOTE]
Elaborate, if you would.
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