[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29512651]or "we want you out of office because you're fucking up our lives" vs. "too fucking bad"
both of those instances are why the second amendment exists
I was going to say it seems far-fetched today but hell, look at Libya now[/QUOTE]
You're suggesting that an armed rebellion is possible in the United States in modern times
When did you stop being smart
People already shoot government officials on occasion, look at how the public reacts to it
Americans aren't the type to rebel since they don't even remotely condone it (in the US)
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;29512223]I just gotta ask you people who are pro-firearms and are argumenting with "It's good for protecting your home and property etc. etc."
Would you be able to live with the blood of another man on your hands for something as trivial as some of your earthly belongings? I could see that you would like your stuff not being stolen, but killing someone for it?
inb4 box rain[/QUOTE]
It's not about the possessions, it's about your life and the lives of your family. I want a gun to protect me and my family from a violent break in, because I know in the time it would take for the police to arrive, a violent robber could have shot and killed my entire family of 4 and made off with our wallets, jewellery, and at least one of our cars before the cops go there. Not only could he steal our possessions, he could kill all of us, and if I have to kill one man who is threatening the lives of my family of four, or even myself, I would very well do it, because when it comes to that point, it's a kill-or-be-killed scenario, and personally I'd rather be the one who lives in that case.
Moreover, if in the unlikely event my country is ever invaded (one of the reasons for the U.S. second amendment), or my government becomes dictatorial and oppressive (another reason for it), I'd like to have the means to defend my freedom and my country, and one of the reasons I don't want to join the army is because I'd like to choose what cause for my country I'd like to die for, and that cause is direct freedom. Since, at the moment, my country is a free one, I see on need to die for what the government calls "freedom" or "security," but in the event that a government turns dictatorial and oppressive, or my country is invaded by an oppressor, I want to be able to defend myself, my country, and my democratic freedom, because knowing when your freedom is at risk is different from being told it is, and I'm only prepared to die for the freedom of my family and countrymen when I know it's at risk, which means I need the means to do that myself, because I don't want to fight a war I don't support in my government's name, not in my country's name. Yes I'm a patriot, it comes from my upbringing, I'm sure both my parents would prefer I join the army, but I'd prefer to get shot at under my own terms.
[editline]29th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29513394]You're suggesting that an armed rebellion is possible in the United States in modern times
When did you stop being smart
People already shoot government officials on occasion, look at how the public reacts to it
Americans aren't the type to rebel since they don't even remotely condone it (in the US)[/QUOTE]
The issue there is the ones in the States who own the guns for the purpose of stopping an oppressive government, or own enough guns to have the means to stop an oppressive government, are the ones supporting oppressive and stupid laws (Republicans).
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29513394]You're suggesting that an armed rebellion is possible in the United States in modern times
When did you stop being smart
People already shoot government officials on occasion, look at how the public reacts to it
Americans aren't the type to rebel since they don't even remotely condone it (in the US)[/QUOTE]
Do you *really* think the US Military would start shooting US citizens en masse? No, they would not. As a matter of fact, if a large enough section of the US citizenry decided 'Wow, fuck this government.', I'm pretty sure that there would be large-scale defections.
The different branches of our military give their allegiances to the country and the people in their respective creeds; not to the government.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29513394]You're suggesting that an armed rebellion is possible in the United States in modern times
When did you stop being smart[/QUOTE]
So? Should we take away the ability just because people don't take to the idea like they did in the 18th century?
[editline]29th April 2011[/editline]
I dunno if Canada was founded by a congress of beavers or something but America started with a bunch of people shooting at their rulers because they didn't like them. We like the idea that if it really came down to it we could tear it all down and remake the entire government. Or maybe it's just me who likes to have that ability.
Ban guns from public. I do not trust civilians with guns.
I don't even like guns so much. I've been to the range once and I just felt dangerous firing a handgun. But I think the people need the right to own them guns because it's a physical means to backup their rights, if it really came to it.
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29512558]I loathe this kind of valuing on human life; I think there's something wrong with people valuing their fucking wallets over a human life, I seriously do.[/QUOTE]
Ok then, if your wallet isn't that important, then please hand all your credentials, cards, identification, and money to me to make your life miserable.
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29512791]Read the quote. He blatantly said "yes" when asked if he could live with the knowledge of having killed a human being. He didn't even say "yes, if...", or "only if I was forced to", he said "yes" without any doubt at all as if killing a robber were a fucking achievement. That's a disgusting view on human life.[/QUOTE]
And...
The robber doesn't really care about you either if you think about it, he is willing enough to take you down if you don't give him what he wants. Are you saying one shouldn't fight back and just hey "look im a fucking huge target with no defense whatsoever, come and get me."
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;29512223]I just gotta ask you people who are pro-firearms and are argumenting with "It's good for protecting your home and property etc. etc."
Would you be able to live with the blood of another man on your hands for something as trivial as some of your earthly belongings? I could see that you would like your stuff not being stolen, but killing someone for it?
inb4 box rain[/QUOTE]
Ahhh finally a reasonable question from you.
I've chewed this over in my head a few times. After studying laws and talking to retired military types and retired Law Enforcement chappies, if the person breaking in has anything in their hands that looks like a weapon (be it anything from another firearm or a crowbar), you've got full legal protection to blow them away (at least its that way Colorado). If it was someone unarmed who was breaking in well, that's where it gets gray for me. I'm a stick insect compared to others out there, if I see some gigantic 6,4 wall of muscles charging towards me I'm going to freak the fuck out and let the lead fly.
The way I see it, no matter how much you restrict guns, people will always get their hands on them, so might as well let the people who want them legally for collecting, hunting, or whatever have them too.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29513697]
I dunno if Canada was founded by a congress of beavers or something but America started with a bunch of people shooting at their rulers because they didn't like them. We like the idea that if it really came down to it we could tear it all down and remake the entire government. Or maybe it's just me who likes to have that ability.[/QUOTE]
We killed a bunch of Indians and then God granted us the land because we were the chosen people
then we oppressed the french and fought off you guys for a while
but really, gun control DOESN'T EQUAL a gun ban
You guys control use of automobiles and one could argue that they're necessary to move around, which is a freedom you are granted, yet nobody smart complains about driver's licenses
[QUOTE=Raygen;29513941]Ban guns from public. I do not trust civilians with guns.[/QUOTE]
And this accomplishes? Absolutely nothing because people will still find ways to acquire them.
[QUOTE=Siminov;29513968]Ok then, if your wallet isn't that important, then please hand all your credentials, cards, identification, and money to me to make your life that much more miserable.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about you but I have my ID-card, my money and my bank cards in my wallet. I would definitely not kill a robber in order to keep my wallet.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29514071]We killed a bunch of Indians and then God granted us the land because we were the chosen people[/QUOTE]
We're not so different after all
it would be bad
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29514125]I don't know about you but I have my ID-card, my money and my bank cards in my wallet. I would definitely not kill a robber in order to keep my wallet.[/QUOTE]
Then you better stock up on wallets. :v:
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29514071]We killed a bunch of Indians and then God granted us the land because we were the chosen people
then we oppressed the french and fought off you guys for a while
but really, gun control DOESN'T EQUAL a gun ban
You guys control use of automobiles and one could argue that they're necessary to move around, which is a freedom you are granted, yet nobody smart complains about driver's licenses[/QUOTE]
Oh I was talking about a ban. I'm not against basic gun control at all.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29514202]Oh I was talking about a ban. I'm not against basic gun control at all.[/QUOTE]
I don't advocate for a gun ban and I think the weapons bans in my country are completely overreaching
let's agree to agree then
I don't have a problem with guns, and honestly, I may be being naive here, but a very small percentage of people who would buy a gun would want to kill someone with it. Most of the time, it's going to be hunting, or clay pigeons etc.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29514255]let's agree to agree then[/QUOTE]
If you want something to argue about again I don't think tasers should be legal for civilian use without some kind of extensive training course
Too many people consider them non-lethal and would overuse them thinking there is no risk of permanently hurting the other person
that seems reasonable to me
dammit finding something to argue about is hard
[editline]29th April 2011[/editline]
Is this like debate club? Do I have to take up the negative?
I think guns are important to any nation really, like JohnnyMo said above, when it comes down to 2 opposing parties that want different things, whoever has the most guns wins.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;29514522]I think guns are important to any nation really, like JohnnyMo said above, when it comes down to 2 opposing parties that want different things, whoever has the most guns wins.[/QUOTE]
Whatever happened to quiet debates? :sigh:
[QUOTE=RubberFruit;29514545]Whatever happened to quiet debates? :sigh:[/QUOTE]
No Comment
In other words, whoever is in charge doesn't have to listen to you, even if you miraculously get in touch with them.
Try asking Obama to leave Libya without getting tackled by bodyguards :v:
Why dumb, Fruit?
I thought I was agreeing to your sarcasm. Or were you serious about quiet debates?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29514071]We killed a bunch of Indians and then God granted us the land because we were the chosen people
then we oppressed the french and fought off you guys for a while
but really, gun control DOESN'T EQUAL a gun ban
You guys control use of automobiles and one could argue that they're necessary to move around, which is a freedom you are granted, yet nobody smart complains about driver's licenses[/QUOTE]
Well, to be fair, the french did start that war and were then allowed their language and law despite losing, so that's a bit of a far cry from oppression... but otherwise I agree with this.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29514385]If you want something to argue about again I don't think tasers should be legal for civilian use without some kind of extensive training course
Too many people consider them non-lethal and would overuse them thinking there is no risk of permanently hurting the other person[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this... tasers should require some training and licensing, just like guns. They can be very dangerous and I'd like to see them treated with some respect by those who own them.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;29514420]that seems reasonable to me
dammit finding something to argue about is hard
[editline]29th April 2011[/editline]
Is this like debate club? Do I have to take up the negative?[/QUOTE]
We could play devils advocate.
I'll start:
We should be allowed to own surface to air missiles incase our government starts launching air strikes against us the armed to the teeth civilian population.
"Those who own them" in Canada with respect to tasers are law enforcement and private security, they're banned for civilian possession, another thing I disagree with, but I agree that there should be proper, possibly strict regulations on their acquisition and use.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;29514599]Well, to be fair, the french did start that war and were then allowed their language and law despite losing, so that's a bit of a far cry from oppression... but otherwise I agree with this.
Yeah, this... tasers should require some training and licensing, just like guns. They can be very dangerous and I'd like to see them treated with some respect by those who own them.[/QUOTE]
I'm honestly more scared of people with tasers than with guns, as stupid as that is.
I guess because tasers are easier to get, and they wouldn't scare off as many potential owners as guns with all the loud banging and whatnot. Plus they're a tad quieter than getting shot :v:
[QUOTE=Kopimi;29514725]I'm honestly more scared of people with tasers than with guns, as stupid as that is.
I guess because tasers are easier to get, and they wouldn't scare off as many potential owners as guns with all the loud banging and whatnot. Plus they're a tad quieter than getting shot :v:[/QUOTE]
Maybe because someones more likely to be willing to use a taser on you than a gun.
[QUOTE=gamefreek76;29503416]overthrow an unjust and oppressive government.[/QUOTE]
not to be sensational or anything but surprise surprise our government is already like this in quite a few ways
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