I've joined the Libertarian Party... - General

[QUOTE=Zeke129;28992486]Derubermensch, elaborate what you mean by "healthcare needs to be treated strictly". A person either needs treatment or they don't, if someone needs treatment they should be able to get it.[/QUOTE] I know this question was like two pages ago but it seems like a good enough question to answer by now. I am suggesting that we only provide public healthcare to people under the poverty line. This way, we can still keep an efficient, no-cost private system for the wealthy and middle class, while still providing help to those who REALLY need public healthcare. In my opinion, just as effective as a grand plan but more fiscally sound.

[QUOTE=Derubermensch;29020184]I know this question was like two pages ago but it seems like a good enough question to answer by now. I am suggesting that we only provide public healthcare to people under the poverty line. This way, we can still keep an efficient, no-cost private system for the wealthy and middle class, while still providing help to those who REALLY need public healthcare. In my opinion, just as effective as a grand plan but more fiscally sound.[/QUOTE] This is where we agree.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29020119]Several countries have done the two option system, such as Australia and Hong Kong. We should have two choices: Public healthcare - Which people who choose that option have to pay higher taxes for. Government run hospitals. Private healthcare - No higher taxes for people who choose this option. Privately run hospitals.[/QUOTE]Uuh, public healthcare wouldn't work if people opted out for paying taxes for it; the poor who need it produce nowhere near enough tax revenue to fund it.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29020119]Several countries have done the two option system, such as Australia and Hong Kong. We should have two choices: Public healthcare - Which people who choose that option have to pay higher taxes for. Government run hospitals. Private healthcare - No higher taxes for people who choose this option. Privately run hospitals.[/QUOTE] That would still just fuck poor people over.

I like what the Libertarian party stands for but I abandoned it due to the fact it's rife with conspiracy theory nutjobs and I don't feel like getting lumped in with a bunch of people who think FEMA trailer parks are modern day Auschwitz's.

All of those "good things about conservativism" you mentioned seem very undesirable to me but what do I know.

Or there could be a separate government healthcare plan that pays private hospitals for them to perform surgery on people below the poverty line. While middle and and upper class people can maintain their freedom.

I've never read a good argument against "socialist healthcare". Am I alone here?

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;29020327]Uuh, public healthcare wouldn't work if people opted out for paying taxes for it; the poor who need it produce nowhere near enough tax revenue to fund it.[/QUOTE] It works in Hong Kong, Australia, and other countries with both private and socialist healthcare. Unfortunately the liberals want a purely socialist healthcare system.

You know what else works? Public healthcare.

[QUOTE=Robbobin;29021947]You know what else works? Public healthcare.[/QUOTE] Yeah because England's healthcare system is doing so great....oh wait! No it isn't.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29022060]Yeah because England's healthcare system is doing so great....oh wait! No it isn't.[/QUOTE] Isn't it? Cite something that suggests it's doing badly? I used the NHS yesterday and this morning and it was all groovy.

[QUOTE=Robbobin;29022132]Isn't it? Cite something that suggests it's doing badly?[/QUOTE] Son, everything in England is doing badly. Their government has become too liberal.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29022184]Son, everything in England is doing badly. Their government has become too liberal.[/QUOTE] It's something called budget cuts.

They have practically zero economic infrastructure since their liberal government drove out all of the corporations and the private sector in the UK is dead.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29022206]Their government has become too liberal and they have practically zero economic infrastructure since their liberal government drove out all of the corporations.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure they didn't do it on purpose and it's certainly not due to liberalism. From where I'm standing, we don't look that liberal at all - not in the ways where it makes a difference. I don't believe in the free market; I think we're at the stage where corporations are damaging society.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29022206]They have practically zero economic infrastructure since their liberal government drove out all of the corporations and the private sector in the UK is dead.[/QUOTE] Corporations going away is due to a worldwide recession, not liberalism.

The liberals (and ultra-conservatives) need to understand that 1984 isn't a how-to manual.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29022327]The liberals (and ultra-conservatives) need to understand that 1984 isn't a how-to manual.[/QUOTE] Does this even bare any relation to the conversation whatsoever

[QUOTE=Stupideye;29022316]Corporations going away is due to a worldwide recession, not liberalism.[/QUOTE] No, in England it's a result of the anti-free market polices the liberals keep enacting.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29022327]The liberals (and ultra-conservatives) need to understand that 1984 isn't a how-to manual.[/QUOTE] I'll have some of whatever he's smoking. Hey guy, you know Orwell was a socialist, right?

I can't work out if he's talking about [b]neo[/b]liberalism or not (seeing as we do seem to be talking about the economy), and if he is I don't have the heart to tell him he's contradicting himself. :ohdear: [editline]6th April 2011[/editline] why did he rate me disagree? the whole concept of neo-liberalism is pro-free market and freedom from government interference in the economy. that's exactly what he seems to be pushing for.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29022327]The liberals (and ultra-conservatives) need to understand that 1984 isn't a how-to manual.[/QUOTE] Uhh.. What? Liberals want the exact opposite of what 1984 portrayed.

Novistador, instead of just rating dumb anyone who even faintly whiffs of liberal, how about you explain [i]your[/i] views? I'm sure they'd be very interesting.

I respect your choice

[QUOTE=Robbobin;29021887]I've never read a good argument against "socialist healthcare". Am I alone here?[/QUOTE] Welp, there is the argument that it flops the federal budget and hurts us fiscally. Running so much money through the public sector is bound to bog down the economy. (Just playing Devil's advocate here, not looking for a debate.)

[QUOTE=Derubermensch;29024072]Welp, there is the argument that it flops the federal budget and hurts us fiscally. Running so much money through the public sector is bound to bog down the economy. (Just playing Devil's advocate here, not looking for a debate.)[/QUOTE] Fair play. :dance: To someone holding that view I'd ask them why having a better economy is so much more important than something like keeping people alive. The reason I take up such issues with neoliberal doctrine is because they seem to support the idea that we should liberalise the markets and give corporations as favorable conditions as possible, to the point where the state has given so much political/social/ideological power to corps that they're free to trample on workers in a way not at all dissimilar from slavery. It's a prisoner's dilemma that the world needs to break out of, and realise all at once that we don't need to submit to this self-perpetuating lie that greed can be married to global utility. It's very difficult not to get pissed off at the political economy coming from a radical perspective.

Bah to your Anarchists, Liberals and Conservatives, I support a variant of Socialism.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29022370]No, in England it's a result of the anti-free market polices the liberals keep enacting.[/QUOTE] Uh, I'm from England and we were doing just fine with those policies right up until the recession hit everyone.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29025392]Bah to your Anarchists, Liberals and Conservatives, I support a variant of Socialism.[/QUOTE] Technocracy is the only true way.