[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29069620]Did you hear? The liberals recently changed the meaning of "disabled" and so now about 1 in 4 Americans are now "disabled" and get even more money from the government, despite the fact that they aren't really "disabled" at all.[/QUOTE]
So you ignore my post and now you're denying autism exists
you're a real winner.
Actually I like the idea of school uniforms, they stop parents from having to buy their kids the lastest trends and the coolest and most well known brands, and rather spending that money on something that is more useful.
[QUOTE=Batmoutarde;29069993]there's rich people that agree with socialism but there's never poor people that agree with libertarianism[/QUOTE]
Completely false and a completely stupid argument free from it's falsehood
[QUOTE=Arctic Snow;29070600]Actually I like the idea of school uniforms, they stop parents from having to buy their kids the lastest trends and the coolest and most well known brands, and rather spending that money on something that is more useful.[/QUOTE]
It makes students conform to the school's standards and gives them no choice at all in what they wear, school uniforms are by far more expensive than casual wear and usually less comfortable as well. There's a school right on the corner that has no dress code and I live in a fairly poor neighborhood, kids love it.
[QUOTE=Arctic Snow;29070600]Actually I like the idea of school uniforms, they stop parents from having to buy their kids the lastest trends and the coolest and most well known brands, and rather spending that money on something that is more useful.[/QUOTE]
Only fascists and dumbasses support school uniforms.
[QUOTE=Hollow Earth;29070672]Only fascists and dumbasses support school uniforms.[/QUOTE]
I suppose you rated me dumb for agreeing with you because I'm a fascist?
It's just an avatar I don't [i]really[/i] subscribe to Dr. Doom's ideology
[editline]e[/editline]
[QUOTE=Robbobin;29025311]Fair play. :dance:
To someone holding that view I'd ask them why having a better economy is so much more important than something like keeping people alive.
The reason I take up such issues with neoliberal doctrine is because they seem to support the idea that we should liberalise the markets and give corporations as favorable conditions as possible, to the point where the state has given so much political/social/ideological power to corps that they're free to trample on workers in a way not at all dissimilar from slavery. It's a prisoner's dilemma that the world needs to break out of, and realise all at once that we don't need to submit to this self-perpetuating lie that greed can be married to global utility.
It's very difficult not to get pissed off at the political economy coming from a radical perspective.[/QUOTE]
Well, let's start off with your first sentence post-:dance:, keeping somebody alive with government funding becomes increasingly harder when your economy is in the shitter, with less government funds to perpetuate the system everyone under the system suffers as opposed to only those without insurance.
Also, no "neoliberal" or "libertarian" would support making lives easier for corporations. In fact under that form of society they would get less help from the government and not just in the form of bailouts, corporate welfare or tax breaks. I mean laws themselves.
I can't imagine a libertarian society with intellectual property rights. Also, under a "neoliberal" society the only, [b]one[/b] purpose of the government is to prevent trampling of rights by private entities.
Finally, i believe social healthcare allows the government to dictate your lifestyle to some degree. Most people would raise taxes on smokers, drinkers or people who live generally unhealthy lifestyles (or some other penalty) of their own free will to coerce them into living a certain way. That is about the best argument against it, there is of course the practical argument which i stated above, but putting the efficiency of the system into question is irrelevant when you're debating the merits of that system on a philosophical level.
[QUOTE=s0beit;29070794]I suppose you rated me dumb for agreeing with you because I'm a fascist?[/QUOTE]
You do agree with what is right, I see that now. I misread your post, I shall give you an agree, since you're right. School uniforms are nothing but tools of fascists that try to ruin and indoctrinate kids and teenagers (and college students).
hmm then again it does depend on how rich people are and what brand of clothing they buy.
Also can I ask is there a limit to what students can wear (such as the color, the design) in the school right on your corner or just the average school, because I've never studied at an American school before.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28989116]Since you've decided to dilute what libertarianism actually is in an attempt to win the argument, okay. I'll oblige:
No healthcare unless you're well-off
No government enforcement of food, product, and workplace safety
"Majority rules" on civil rights issues such as gay marriage and racial equality[/QUOTE]
1) "No healthcare unless you're well-off" is debatable, you have to analyze the system prior to government involvement in the system (ignore the inferior technology since that is an unfair basis for an argument, you can't compare the medical technology of 150 years ago to that of today's society, it's an unfair comparison)
2) Completely false as fuck.
3) Wrong, double wrong, wrong max. You don't really know what a fucking republic is do you? Seriously.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28990098]Welcome to Libertarian America Simulator v1
You are a black man, and your car has just broken down outside of Generitown, Southernstate. You have a gas can with you and the town is just a five minute walk, so you tell your kids to wait in the car.
You get to the gas station and the man behind the counter reaches for the pistol on his hip. "We don't like your kind, now get out of my store", he says. Not wanting to get shot, you leave.
You figure you better find some accomodation for yourself and your family, as the sun is going down. You go up to the hotel and ask for a room. "Sorry sir, we're all out of rooms. Hotel across the street is too, unfortunately." On your way out, you hear the clerk rent a room to a white man. Enraged, you demand to speak to the supervisor. The supervisor comes out and tells you that he didn't do anything illegal and tells you to get off his property.
You phone up the ACLU a week later but they tell you that there's nothing they can do to help.
Enjoy your new America Libertaritards[/QUOTE]
Welcome to Zeke America Simulator v1:
Using straw man examples, portraying political ideologies as stereotypes and being an elitist who is horrible at his job because he's often completely wrong and stupid.
[QUOTE=Arctic Snow;29071186]hmm then again it does depend on how rich people are and what brand of clothing they buy.
Also can I ask is there a limit to what students can wear (such as the color, the design) in the school right on your corner or just the average school, because I've never studied at an American school before.[/QUOTE]
I live in a relatively poor part of town, not that horrible, but not that great either. General rules are no profanity, no gang colors (is why i brought that up) and things of that nature.
What makes you think that high school is anything like what Hollywood depicts it as? Cliques do exist, but they aren't like Hollywood makes it out to be. Everyone gets along with everyone and has friends in each group. There are no gangs (I can't speak for all high schools or regions, but in my area there aren't any) and the most violent thing that happens is a few fist fights a year by guys fighting over a girl. There's not much, if any bullying in most high schools, and of course there's no school uniforms.
Edit: And no, I don't live in some rich area, in fact, I live out in an area that was considered the middle of nowhere by most people 15 years ago. And I have nearly 3000 students at my high school.
[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29071277]What makes you think that high school is anything like what Hollywood depicts it as? Cliques do exist, but they aren't like Hollywood makes it out to be. Everyone gets along with everyone and has friends in each group. There are no gangs (I don't live in an urban area, so I can't speak for urban high schools) and the most violent thing that happens is a few fist fights a year by guys fighting over a girl. There's not much, if any bullying in most high schools, and of course there's no school uniforms.[/QUOTE]
I appreciate your opinion but in my area there is definitely gangs and they definitely do start fights over stupid shit like colors.
[editline]e[/editline]
That isn't to say i advocate it, whatever, wear what you want i would say. It (dressing a certain way) has nothing to do with academia, those people shouldn't be kept in school if all they can do is find reasons to fight each other.
[QUOTE=s0beit;29071311]I appreciate your opinion but in my area there is definitely gangs and they definitely do start fights over stupid shit like colors.
[editline]e[/editline]
That isn't to say i advocate it, whatever, wear what you want i would say. It (dressing a certain way) has nothing to do with academia, those people shouldn't be kept in school if all they can do is find reasons to fight each other.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I didn't mean to generalize, I just know about my area and it's surrounding areas. Of course teenagers shouldn't be allowed to wear ANYTHING to school, there should be some limits, such as no gang symbols/colors if there are gangs in the region and no dominatrix outfits and stuff like that. But you can't make it too strict by having a forced uniform or severely limiting choice and individuality.
personally i don't think there would be a problem if people weren't fucking stupid enough to join gangs in the first place
but whatever
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29066767]I could live off the state for simply being diagnosed as autistic, having no job and being on my own. I [/QUOTE]
True but here is the thing about people who do. They dont like it. most people who live of the state want to get a better life. Most of the time its only when they have to that they choose to do nothing all day in a boring single slumber. Also its not like you get payed that much anyways.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29071541]personally i don't think there would be a problem if people weren't fucking stupid enough to join gangs in the first place
but whatever[/QUOTE]
I think drug laws are mostly to blame for a majority of violence and funding to small gangs which gains them notoriety and the means to buy illegal products like more drugs, firearms and vehicles. If the drug laws were decommissioned there would be no fighting over corners (as they have no value, except perhaps sentimental) there would be no drug deals gone bad.
There would still be fighting and blood for blood but it would be at a much smaller rate and the gangs themselves would have far less funding to put in the direction of illegal firearms and vehicles (which they use for violence also)
Prior to the Vietnam war (and prior to gangs in this area getting a hold of the drug trade) the rate of violence between gangs was negligible.
[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29069433]Not true, I've rated some people here who disagreed with me with hearts if they were friendly in their post and weren't rude and so long as they didn't automatically assume they were right just because they're liberals/socialists/communists. Because I respect their opinions, even if I disagree with them.
[/QUOTE]
According to you almost everyone who disagrees is unfriendly. I also like how you lumb communist with liberal. Really your the least friendly person here and you need to stop your box spam because at this point getting rated a box at by you is almost a sign that a made a good argument and I should feel proud. I mean you believe that every liberal is a commie more assuming can you get?
[QUOTE=s0beit;29071628]I think drug laws are mostly to blame for a majority of violence and funding to small gangs which gains them notoriety and the means to buy illegal products like more drugs, firearms and vehicles. If the drug laws were decommissioned there would be no fighting over corners (as they have no value, except perhaps sentimental) there would be no drug deals gone bad.
There would still be fighting and blood for blood but it would be at a much smaller rate and the gangs themselves would have far less funding to put in the direction of illegal firearms and vehicles (which they use for violence also)
Prior to the Vietnam war (and prior to gangs in this area getting a hold of the drug trade) the rate of violence between gangs was negligible.[/QUOTE]
can i just say i really fucking hate gangs
not because of the whole violence and illegality nonsense, which is of course bad, but because of their dumbass fucking narcissistic attitudes
fucking stupid hicks bopping around in their ugly fucking shiny vans thinking they're worth a fuck because they have barely enough money to put gas into said ugly fucking shiny van, and then fucking up everything around them when they don't get their bottle on time and they have a hissy fit, fuck them
every stupid shit who joins a gang should be thrown in a bin and shipped to the fucking moon
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29071789]can i just say i really fucking hate gangs
not because of the whole violence and illegality nonsense, which is of course bad, but because of their dumbass fucking narcissistic attitudes
fucking stupid hicks bopping around in their ugly fucking shiny vans thinking they're worth a fuck because they have barely enough money to put gas into said ugly fucking shiny van, and then fucking up everything around them when they don't get their bottle on time and they have a hissy fit, fuck them
every stupid shit who joins a gang should be thrown in a bin and shipped to the fucking moon[/QUOTE]
You can say that, and that's fine but I wonder if you've ever actually been to an area with gangs?
There is some people who are narcissistic and even sociopathic but from experience (and knowing gang members personally, around here, it's pretty unavoidable you meet somebody in a gang) a good portion of them are otherwise decent people (and poor fucks) who just got their lives fucked up by their family and their surroundings.
Their brothers were shot to death by a rival gang or they were beaten unmercifully by a gang for being marked as a gang member mistakenly so they foolishly join a gang thinking it will solve their problem (it never does).
It's not all black and white.
[QUOTE=s0beit;29071908]You can say that, and that's fine but I wonder if you've ever actually been to an area with gangs?
There is some people who are narcissistic and even sociopathic but from experience (and knowing gang members personally, around here, it's pretty unavoidable you meet somebody in a gang) a good portion of them are otherwise decent people (and poor fucks) who just got their lives fucked up by their family and their surroundings.
Their brothers were shot to death by a rival gang or they were beaten unmercifully by a gang for being marked as a gang member mistakenly so they foolishly join a gang thinking it will solve their problem (it never does).
It's not all black and white.[/QUOTE]
This is a huge generalization, so don't take what I'm about to say as anything more than me getting off on fucking hating every single strata of human culture, but who fucking gives a damn if they're nice.
Every single group of fucking people on the planet is nice to someone. Nazis can be fucking nice. That doesn't make them good people, or not human filth that deserves to be scraped off of the face of the earth. The fucking Westborough Baptist Church is nice to other members to other members of the Westborough Baptist Church. Doesn't mean they don't get in their douchemobiles and blitz about the country acting like jerkoffs.
If you're fucking relatives get shot by a fucking gang, and then your response is [I]to join another gang,[/I] you are stupid. You are so fucking brick stupid I can't possibly feel sorry for you. Fuck, if your response to [I]anything[/I] is to join a gang you are a fucking idiot.
But I know we're going to talk about next which is "Well Mr. Scorpio, the reason they're so fucking thick is because they were born in a backwards slum full of crime and drugs", and you know what, you're completely right. If the people being born in Queens were born in Beverly Hills instead they probably wouldn't join a bunch of gang bangers.
But you know what, who fucking cares. The only reason they were born in a slum and became a bunch of murderous pricks is because of all the decisions that the people before them made to produce and move into said shitty slum. So fucking assholes made a ghetto that makes more fucking assholes. So in the end, people are just fucking assholes all around.
What the hell does any of this have to do with the Libertarian Party?
Then again, why not allow gang colors? The people who join gangs are the kind of people who nobody would care if they died anyway.
[editline]9th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;29071653]According to you almost everyone who disagrees is unfriendly. I also like how you lumb communist with liberal. Really your the least friendly person here and you need to stop your box spam because at this point getting rated a box at by you is almost a sign that a made a good argument and I should feel proud. I mean you believe that every liberal is a commie more assuming can you get?[/QUOTE]
I never said all liberals are commies. But they are all left wing.
[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29072253]Then again, why not allow gang colors? The people who join gangs are the kind of people who nobody would care if they died anyway.[/QUOTE]
And you know what, I fucking hate you people too. Entitled pricks who sit in their fucking nice houses in nice neighborhoods bitching about how people they've never met act, passively condemning them to death for no reason other than the fact that they aren't a member of your despicable narcissist social clique. People who think they know how the whole fucking world works so they don't have to put any fucking thought into anything.
Fucking passive aggressive idiot hedonists. I hope you choke on your fucking mountain of an ego.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29072368]And you know what, I fucking hate you people too. Entitled pricks who sit in their fucking nice houses in nice neighborhoods bitching about how people they've never met act, passively condemning them to death for no reason other than the fact that they aren't a member of your despicable narcissist social clique. People who think they know how the whole fucking world works so they don't have to put any fucking thought into anything.
Fucking passive aggressive idiot hedonists. I hope you choke on your fucking mountain of an ego.[/QUOTE]
What makes you assume that I live in a nice house and/or nice neighborhood? And how can you possibly argue that gangs and/or the mafia are good for society?
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;29071594]True but here is the thing about people who do. They dont like it. most people who live of the state want to get a better life. Most of the time its only when they have to that they choose to do nothing all day in a boring single slumber. Also its not like you get payed that much anyways.[/QUOTE]
I mean that the government should actually try to get the people to do something. Working on a farm, building a highway or many other jobs could be at least done.
And the roads where I live are shit.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29072441]I mean that the government should actually try to get the people to do something. Working on a farm, building a highway or many other jobs could be at least done.
And the roads where I live are shit.[/QUOTE]
This. If the government is going to do anything, it should get them a job, not send them money each month. Then again, I would be just as happy if the government did nothing and let them screw themselves over.
Of course a more preferable option is for the government to do nothing and let the people ruin their own lives if they choose to do so. I support minimum wage laws, healthy and safety requirements, and other such requirements for corporations and businesses, but not much more than that.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29072215]
Every single group of fucking people on the planet is nice to someone. Nazis can be fucking nice. That doesn't make them good people, or not human filth that deserves to be scraped off of the face of the earth. The fucking Westborough Baptist Church is nice to other members to other members of the Westborough Baptist Church. Doesn't mean they don't get in their douchemobiles and blitz about the country acting like jerkoffs.[/quote]
right, except instead of hating gays or a race they actually hate other gang members who beat them and shoot at them. It isn't exactly a fair comparison. Granted they brought that upon themselves through their fucked up way of thinking.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29072215]
If you're fucking relatives get shot by a fucking gang, and then your response is [I]to join another gang,[/I] you are stupid. You are so fucking brick stupid I can't possibly feel sorry for you. Fuck, if your response to [I]anything[/I] is to join a gang you are a fucking idiot.[/quote]
They are often children or teenagers, not often thought of as having super good critical thinking abilities. Mix that up with a fucked up way of thinking because they were raised by morons and yeah, perpetual stupidity.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29072215]
But I know we're going to talk about next which is "Well Mr. Scorpio, the reason they're so fucking thick is because they were born in a backwards slum full of crime and drugs", and you know what, you're completely right. If the people being born in Queens were born in Beverly Hills instead they probably wouldn't join a bunch of gang bangers.[/quote]
No, but they might turn out to be sociopaths in Beverly Hills anyway, sure he won't have a motivation to harm people immediately, but the Beverly Hills born person born into a fucked up family can still be a fucked up, sociopathic crazy man.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29072215]What the hell does any of this have to do with the Libertarian Party?[/QUOTE]
Quite right, we did get kind of off topic. Reply to some earlier things, might bring us back on track. As for the gang colors thing, i say let people wear gang colors anyway, not because i want to see gang members suffer but because its almost like a terrorist mentality to prevent people from wearing gang colors because it might cause problems. I wear whatever i want.
[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29072437]What makes you assume that I live in a nice house and/or nice neighborhood? And how can you possibly argue that gangs and/or the mafia are good for society?[/QUOTE]
Oh right, if I'm not arguing for your lame parent inherited world philosophy I'm obviously fucking arguing for the polar opposite point, because of course the world is made up of positives and negatives with no fucking space in between to think about. Even if I just wrote a small fucking paper on how I hate gangs and gang philosophy I obviously must think they're beneficial to society if I don't think every single person in them should be casually discarded as useless human offal. I submit to your insufferable genius.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29072441]I mean that the government should actually try to get the people to do something. Working on a farm, building a highway or many other jobs could be at least done.
And the roads where I live are shit.[/QUOTE]I can't think of a more inappropriate job for a person that's just been sick. Building highways or working on a farm is physically stressful, and is much more likely to get the newly recovered patient back into hospital. Besides, I'd want an educated worker to build my roads.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29072592]Oh right, if I'm not arguing for your lame parent inherited world philosophy I'm obviously fucking arguing for the polar opposite point[/QUOTE]
Fun fact: My mother is actually a liberal democrat voter. Calling a libertarian viewpoint "parent inherited" almost defies explanation as numbers have actually been on the rise lately and a great majority of voters and political minded people in America are either Republican or Democrat voters. I don't see the correlation at all, so you'll have to present something to back that assertion. Many libertarian people i know had parents who are either Republican or Democrat and I'd actually like to know who grew up with genuinely libertarian parents. I've almost never heard of such a thing in a real world sense, i know some libertarians are parents but I haven't spoken to any of them.
I'm not sure if mister ShivanCommander considers himself a libertarian, he doesn't seem like a pure breed by his statements alone I've seen through this topic, i don't think parents can dictate everything about their child's philosophy in life. Were you brainwashed by your parents Scorpio? What political orientation are they?
[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29072653]Besides, I'd want an educated worker to build my roads.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever laid asphalt or cement for sidewalks? I have, it's not rocket science bro
[QUOTE=s0beit;29072732]Fun fact: My mother is actually a liberal democrat voter. Calling a libertarian viewpoint "parent inherited" almost defies explanation as numbers have actually been on the rise lately and a great majority of voters and political minded people in America are either Republican or Democrat voters. I don't see the correlation at all, so you'll have to present something to back that assertion. Many libertarian people i know had parents who are either Republican or Democrat and I'd actually like to know who grew up with genuinely libertarian parents. I've almost never heard of such a thing in a real world sense, i know some libertarians are parents but I haven't spoken to any of them.
I'm not sure if mister ShivanCommander considers himself a libertarian, he doesn't seem like a pure breed by his statements alone I've seen through this topic, i don't think parents can dictate everything about their child's philosophy in life. Were you brainwashed by your parents Scorpio? What political orientation are they?[/QUOTE]
My dad is a Ba'hai social democrat and I think he has his head so far up his ass it's in another dimension. My mother thinks every single government institution is run by fucking idiots, though she only expressed this view to me after I expressed it to her.
That was more just one of many insults levied at him, but to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if he did get his whole world view from his parents considering how apathetic and ignorant he is.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29072441]I mean that the government should actually try to get the people to do something. Working on a farm, building a highway or many other jobs could be at least done.
And the roads where I live are shit.[/QUOTE]
There are many different situation where you cant work at all. Either being a single parent or have major disabilities. So find jobs everyone can get before taking them of there life juice.
[editline]9th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29072253]
I never said all liberals are commies. But they are all left wing.[/QUOTE]
No they aren't. Real communist want to create a stateless country which would be more anarchist then liberal.
[editline]9th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29072470]Then again, I would be just as happy if the government did nothing and let them screw themselves over.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit im sorry but your an asshole. You have no idea what its like to be poor if your saying this. I literally feel sick you would want this.
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