I've joined the Libertarian Party... - General

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29072253] I never said all liberals are commies. But they are all left wing.[/QUOTE] No they're not. Liberalism is a centre-right ideology. Get your facts straight.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29072592]Oh right, if I'm not arguing for your lame parent inherited world philosophy I'm obviously fucking arguing for the polar opposite point, because of course the world is made up of positives and negatives with no fucking space in between to think about. Even if I just wrote a small fucking paper on how I hate gangs and gang philosophy I obviously must think they're beneficial to society if I don't think every single person in them should be casually discarded as useless human offal. I submit to your insufferable genius.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say...

[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29072653]I can't think of a more inappropriate job for a person that's just been sick. Building highways or working on a farm is physically stressful, and is much more likely to get the newly recovered patient back into hospital. Besides, I'd want an educated worker to build my roads.[/QUOTE] Well I meant those fit to do the job, not sick people. Generally those who are unemployed but fit for work. In the great depression they had men with PHDs working as diggers on the hoover dam.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29073024]I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say...[/QUOTE] Why am I not surprised.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29073050]Why am I not surprised.[/QUOTE] I'm merely asking that you try to rephrase that, not be an ignorant asshole, like you are right now. It almost sounded as if you said I got my libertarian views from my parents. But that would be completely nonsensical since my parents, like 90% of Americans, don't even know what the Libertarian Party is, or any other third party for that matter.

I just don't get it. Since military takes more then health care and since no one likes big taxes and since only the paranoid believe anyone is going to try and take are country why do we spend so much on military? I hear conservatives say how much they hate taxes but never how they think this war on drugs and terrorism is a huge waste of money.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29073099]I'm merely asking that you try to rephrase that, not be an ignorant asshole, like you are right now. It almost sounded as if you said I got my libertarian views from my parents. But that would be completely nonsensical since my parents, like 90% of Americans, don't even know what the Libertarian Party is, or any other third party for that matter.[/QUOTE] First of all, you aren't using 'ignorant' in the right context. Ignorance means to be unknowing or unawares, not to be a blowhard bastard who insults people. Second, my point is very simple. I don't think that gangs are beneficial. How thick do you have to be to think that I think gangs are beneficial when I just spent a great deal of time explaining how much I hate them.

[QUOTE=s0beit;29072732] Have you ever laid asphalt or cement for sidewalks? I have, it's not rocket science bro[/QUOTE] No, I have not. But I assume the workers' education will influence the quality of the roads bro. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;29073037]Well I meant those fit to do the job, not sick people. Generally those who are unemployed but fit for work.[/QUOTE] I see, it's not really relevant to the discussion about socialised health care then, but I'll answer anyway. Yes, these people may be fit for work, but they also need someone to employ them. If they can't find anyone they will remain unemployed.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;29073222]I don't think that gangs are beneficial. How thick do you have to be to think that I think gangs are beneficial when I just spent a great deal of time explaining how much I hate them.[/QUOTE] "Staw man" might have saved you some time bro [QUOTE=Ond kaja;29073262]No, I have not. But I assume the workers' education will influence the quality of the roads bro.[/QUOTE] There's only one way to do them right and manual labor can be done by anyone with the will and strength to complete the task. I guess the only part genuine intellect would be a factor is when somebody is managing the whole operation. Otherwise you just mix cement or smooth it and don't step it in while it's drying like a retard. Asphalt is different but not much more difficult (well, a little, but physically) from a worker standpoint. My point is, most anybody with able body can do those jobs without an education. Taking the education requirement out of road or sidewalk building would give more disadvantaged people opportunity to work (and these types of jobs usually don't pay poorly either, in the sense that generally people who do those jobs make upward of $10 an hour whereas other labor, like waitressing, bus boy, cooking at a restaurant or being a gas station window washer will get you minimum wage).

[QUOTE=s0beit;29073280]"Staw man" might have saved you some time bro[/QUOTE] You know you'd think that, but in my experience it never does.

[QUOTE=s0beit;29073280] There's only one way to do them right and manual labor can be done by anyone with the will and strength to complete the task. I guess the only part genuine intellect would be a factor is when somebody is managing the whole operation. Otherwise you just mix cement or smooth it and don't step it in while it's drying like a retard. Asphalt is different but not much more difficult (well, a little, but physically) from a worker standpoint. My point is, most anybody with able body can do those jobs without an education. Taking the education requirement out of road or sidewalk building would give more disadvantaged people opportunity to work (and these types of jobs usually don't pay poorly either, in the sense that generally people who do those jobs make upward of $10 an hour whereas other manual labor, like waitressing or bus boy or cooking at a restaurant will get you minimum wage).[/QUOTE]I guess it's unclear from what perspective we're talking from. If education is expensive and not accessable for most people (like in America) then you have a point. Education is free in Sweden, where I live, and virtually everyone has a secondary education. If everyone has access to education, there won't be as much of a problem whether you're educated or not.

Still waiting for Shivian commander to respond to my argument. Any day now...

lol @ people trying to get "free" (not really free) college

[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29073602]I guess it's unclear from what perspective we're talking from. If education is expensive and not accessable for most people (like in America) then you have a point. Education is free in Sweden, where I live, and virtually everyone has a secondary education. If everyone has access to education, there won't be as much of a problem whether you're educated or not.[/QUOTE] "virtually everyone", those without a secondary education must have very poor job opportunities i assume. Therefore it's still a problem, some people don't wish to continue school or quit schooling for personal reasons and don't bother to come back to it. It's a personal choice but if every job is taken by educated people it has to be pretty rough for them to find a decent job. There's also the issue of demand, say everyone has an education which will net you a job with a higher pay rate than that of a janitor, construction worker or waitress, why would anyone ever work those jobs? Genuine question, since [i]most people[/i] take those jobs out of necessity and not the merits of the job itself. [QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29073707]lol @ people trying to get "free" (not really free) college[/QUOTE] There's that aspect of it, but then again there's the practical argument. If you really [b]must[/b] have state-funded (taxpayer funded) education, it should be backed by private schools with the option to select other schools at the behest of the parents. Like tax credits, or something, to spend at the school of your choice. Standardization, Non-competition and school districts are killing American education.

[QUOTE=s0beit;29073822]"virtually everyone", those without a secondary education must have very poor job opportunities i assume. Therefore it's still a problem, some people don't wish to continue school or quit schooling for personal reasons and don't bother to come back to it. It's a personal choice but if every job is taken by educated people it has to be pretty rough for them to find a decent job. There's also the issue of demand, say everyone has an education which will net you a job with a higher pay rate than that of a janitor, construction worker or waitress, why would anyone ever work those jobs? Genuine question, since [i]most people[/i] take those jobs out of necessity and not the merits of the job itself. [/QUOTE] Yes, those that didn't continue their education or dropped out have lower chance of getting a job. However, you can whenever you want go back to school and finish your education. Personally, I think it's better to have a good overall education which gives people that didn't finish their education a disadvantage than having an uneducated population. Employers WANT to hire educated people, it's more of a problem if they don't get the possibility to hire them due to inaccessability of education, than if some people get disadvantaged because they dropped out. If you're an educated economist and can't get a job within the economy sector, you have the possibility to work as a janitor or waitress (construction workers in Sweden get paid fairly well). In fact, many young people in Sweden get jobs with lower salaries before they find a job that they are educated for. It's better to be a waitress when you're young and then get a better job than being stuck with being a waitress forever simply because you can't afford an education.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29073707]lol @ people trying to get "free" (not really free) college[/QUOTE] You truly are a fucking moron. There is nothing wrong with nationalized healthcare like the NHS. This comes from experience. Without the NHS I would be fucked today. Thanks to them my eyes are actually useful, they point in the direction I damn want them too, and work how they should. My family is not rich, if we lived in your [I]glorious[/I] American dreamworld that you think is the right way forward then my family would not have been able to afford the operations required on my eyes (hint: there were multiple operations, no buy one get one free in healthcare). We just wouldn't be able to afford the insurance as my parents were having a hard enough time keeping enough money to fucking live, while both working full time jobs at minimum wage as their parents relied on them too much to go into higher education. Privatised healthcare being the only options is a terrible, terrible idea. There needs to be a free option, everyone deserves a right to treatment, the old, the young, the mentally disabled, the physically disabled, the poor, the rich, the homeless, drug addicts. [B][highlight]EVERYBODY[/highlight][/B]. Not allowing people access to free healthcare is violating human rights as far as I care. [I]"But what about my taxess bawwwwwwwwwwww :saddowns:"[/I] I hear you cry. Well it really isn't that much. It would be a couple hundred dollars a year if you are earning a good amount of money, you won't notice it's gone. It is a menial amount a month, paid straight into the government that you will never see until you actually need healthcare yourself. Instead of thinking about how healthcare affects you, stop being a selfish prick and think how it affects people who genuinely cannot afford private healthcare. All those disfigured homeless people who've been beaten, broken and generally fucked over by the better off of us. They may have caused themselves to reach that state, but they still deserve care. And now into your more recent stupidity. Free college exists. Once again, paid from a menial tax that you won't miss. How do I know? I am almost finished with my course, and as I was under 18 when the year begun, I have not paid a single penny into the government. For all intents and purposes, it was free to me. Others may have had to pay, but there are so many people paying taxes that it doesn't matter, people on minimum wage pay near nothing, people on higher wages pay a bit more a month. I honestly think you don't know what you are doing, and just voted for the party that promised to give your class a better deal, like the lowered tax from no public healthcare. You are the worst kind of person next to bankers and politicians themselves. You don't care for anything other than your money, thinking that taking even $20 a month will somehow cause you to go bankrupt and make your country "communist". You are scared of change, scared of real equality. You shouldn't be allowed to vote. [editline]Edited:[/editline] And before you even think of replying with some stupid comment about socialism ruining everything. We still have the choice to privatize any-fucking-thing we want. private healthcare, schools, colleges and so forth are all available if you so desire them.

S0beit I love you. I want to have your babies.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29073707]lol @ people trying to get "free" (not really free) college[/QUOTE] :foxnews: This just in glaber no longer are favorite poster:foxnews:

[QUOTE=s0beit;29073822] Standardization, Non-competition and school districts are killing American education.[/QUOTE] Competition's ill-defined here. The trend's always been that standardization and competition [i]between schools[/i] has always come together (see Race to the Top and No Child Left Behind), and the resulting results-oriented climate simply puts the wrong priorities first. I'm on the fence on competition within schools - that's a foggy cloud as well and I'd have to argue from first principles.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29073707]lol @ people trying to get "free" (not really free) college[/QUOTE] uh oh, you have to respond to me and hexpunk now Get to work, boyo

[QUOTE=hexpunK;29074446]You truly are a fucking moron.[/QUOTE] My mother would have never survived without the help from the goverment here in Sweden. She got in a lot of trouble and she got all the help she could get. So I wish I could agree with you more then once.

[QUOTE=GeneralFredrik;29074784]My mother would have never survived without the help from the goverment here in Sweden. She got in a lot of trouble and she got all the help she could get. So I wish I could agree with you more then once.[/QUOTE] I have a uncle with severe Diabetes. Thanks to the NHS he has managed to live longer than they thought he would, without having a single limb amputated. He even outlived his first wife who died from lung cancer. Ocne again, the NHS was excellent, they managed to keep her alive long enough for our family to make reparations with her after having a major falling out, allowing her to die happy. I can't thank that service enough for what it has done for my family. I would hate to think how people who have had much worse happen feel about it when it does help them. Experiences like this will always have a greater impact than statistics, people can reel off statistics like no tomorrow. A good story on how the service saved someone who couldn't afford help otherwise? Much, much more impacting.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;29074852]I have a uncle with severe Diabetes. Thanks to the NHS he has managed to live longer than they thought he would, without having a single limb amputated. He even outlived his first wife who died from lung cancer. Ocne again, the NHS was excellent, they managed to keep her alive long enough for our family to make reparations with her after having a major falling out, allowing her to die happy. I can't thank that service enough for what it has done for my family. I would hate to think how people who have had much worse happen feel about it when it does help them. Experiences like this will always have a greater impact than statistics, people can reel off statistics like no tomorrow. A good story on how the service saved someone who couldn't afford help otherwise? Much, much more impacting.[/QUOTE] I have never been able to understand why people wouldn't like a healthcare that covers [B]EVERYONE[/B] and then have the option to go to a private one. It baffles me to no end.

[QUOTE=GeneralFredrik;29074887]I have never been able to understand why people wouldn't like a healthcare that covers [B]EVERYONE[/B] and then have the option to go to a private one. It baffles me to no end.[/QUOTE] Poor people dont deserve health. But really its because they think anything that helps the poor is bad and that they can pay for health themselves magically.

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;29074934]Poor people dont deserve health. But really its because they think anything that helps the poor is bad and that they can pay for health themselves magically.[/QUOTE] Funny. You know what we call them in Sweden? Dumbasses, you know why? Here is why they want to take away taxes on the really rich: Conservatives are today's Labour Party and want to give more people more freedom and ability to stand on its own. We want more people to have jobs. Therefore, we want to cut taxes for everyone, but most of all for those who earn little and who therefore need it most. Bwahhahaha! :v:

[QUOTE=s0beit;29070794]Also, no "neoliberal" or "libertarian" would support making lives easier for corporations.[/QUOTE] Try reading literally any international political economy textbook that was ever written ever. I'm right. It's not even a matter of opinion here; I'm paraphrasing countless textbooks on the international political economy. Neoliberal economic policy celebrates freedom for corporations. That's just what it does.

Either the op is the worlds largest troll, or the worlds most politically retarded person. Yeah go ahead and rate me dumb shivancommander. It just proves my point.

[QUOTE=s0beit;29073822]"virtually everyone", those without a secondary education must have very poor job opportunities i assume. Therefore it's still a problem, some people don't wish to continue school or quit schooling for personal reasons and don't bother to come back to it. It's a personal choice but if every job is taken by educated people it has to be pretty rough for them to find a decent job. There's also the issue of demand, say everyone has an education which will net you a job with a higher pay rate than that of a janitor, construction worker or waitress, why would anyone ever work those jobs? Genuine question, since [i]most people[/i] take those jobs out of necessity and not the merits of the job itself. There's that aspect of it, but then again there's the practical argument. If you really [b]must[/b] have state-funded (taxpayer funded) education, it should be backed by private schools with the option to select other schools at the behest of the parents. Like tax credits, or something, to spend at the school of your choice. Standardization, Non-competition and school districts are killing American education.[/QUOTE] The top 12 universities in the world are all in the United States. [img]http://images.nsfwposters.com/images/rofl/myspace/1218993222816.jpg.myspace.jpg[/img] [editline]9th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=s0beit;29070794]Also, no "neoliberal" or "libertarian" would support making lives easier for corporations.[/QUOTE] You obviously don't know too much about libertarianism. Look at their party platform.

[QUOTE=Robbobin;29075208]Try reading literally any international political economy textbook that was ever written ever. I'm right. It's not even a matter of opinion here; I'm paraphrasing countless textbooks on the international political economy. Neoliberal economic policy celebrates freedom for corporations. That's just what it does.[/QUOTE] They celebrate freedom for everyone, people who run corporations just factor into that. There is no special favoritism like there is today and there are no special freedoms like there are today. People are created equal and treated as equal under the government. Most people don't really understand that this would mean disestablishing anti-competition laws such as intellectual property rights and subsidies as well as any type of tax favoritism. [QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29075286]You obviously don't know too much about libertarianism. Look at their party platform.[/QUOTE] If you mean in comparison to today, yeah, life probably would be easier. If you mean in comparison to the common person, no, not at all.

[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;29075286][img_thumb]http://images.nsfwposters.com/images/rofl/myspace/1218993222816.jpg.myspace.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] Congratulations. You invalidated everything you just said and will now be considered a troll. Still waiting for a actual response, without stupidity, with real sources and statistics proving that national healthcare is the devil itself and will cause your poor, poor money to suddenly vaporize. Oh wait, you don't have one.