I've joined the Libertarian Party... - General

[QUOTE=s0beit;29078530]I had this discussion with somebody the other day. Your position doesn't state it isn't robbery but rather that is is robbery, it's just for the greater good of society. Sorry but often money doesn't just go to the poor or disadvantaged and even when it does you can't be sure the person agrees philosophically with your subjective position. The very reason it is robbery is because it is devoid of choice at all. If you don't pay you are punished, you can't decide which services to pay for or keep funding from. If there were a sliver of choice in the matter it might not be robbery, assuming they want to pay taxes at all. I would allow people to choose which programs to pay for, or none at all, and bar them from utilizing the services (or other services) if they chose to not taxed at all. It's the only real way it isn't robbery. That is a subjective position and i hope you understand that. Most libertarians do know there is a problem in income, the gap, we just don't see the solution to be the same as yours. Your solution, to us, isn't just being morally bankrupt (as you're robbing people just to give to another) but also doesn't solve many problems inherent in the gap itself. The problem is an economic one. Unfair trade perpetuated by government.[/QUOTE] Please don't say the libertarian solution is to "Work harder".

Democracy works just fine. On paper.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29078560]That's generally why you only vote in people that do. Take Bernie Sanders (a US Senator) for example. He doesn't exactly get behind corporate interests.[/QUOTE] i didnt say all of them. i am a firm supporter of ron paul partly because of what you just described.

[QUOTE=alucard_extreme;29078579]i didnt say all of them. i am a firm supporter of ron paul partly because of what you just described.[/QUOTE] say goodbye to civil liberties and kiss effective taxation goodbye.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29078573]Democracy works just fine. On paper.[/QUOTE] It's not perfect, but it's a whole lot better than one-party rule.

[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29078556]What the hell is a HMO?[/QUOTE] HMO = health maintenance organization, you know, the current healthcare system nixon introduced in the 70s? read up on it, clearly you haven't much information to bring to the table

[QUOTE=alucard_extreme;29078579]i didnt say all of them. i am a firm supporter of ron paul partly because of what you just described.[/QUOTE] Then let me ask you this: Would be alright with businesses being able to discriminate based on race/gender?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29078591]say goodbye to civil liberties and kiss effective taxation goodbye.[/QUOTE] too bad ron paul is all in favor of civil liberties that abide by the constitution, and a flat tax rate at his appropriated levels would mean the cutting of so much unnecessary bureaucracy. youre not thinking this through, are you?

[QUOTE=alucard_extreme;29078567]clearly this is some gibberish nonsense language mind actually supporting your argument on an english language forum?[/QUOTE] Sorry but I have to translate alot of stuff all the time when I try to argue with other people. Yes it is good for my english but why can't you take 5 minutes and learn something new? Wouldn't that be fun instead of calling a language: gibberish nonsense language

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29078612]Then let me ask you this: Would be alright with businesses being able to discriminate based on race/gender?[/QUOTE] because they are private businesses and the government has no right to tell them how to run themselves its very simple, even though im not in support of the idea itself of racial discrimination

[QUOTE=alucard_extreme;29078623]too bad ron paul is all in favor of civil liberties that abide by the constitution, and a flat tax rate at his appropriated levels would mean the cutting of so much unnecessary bureaucracy. youre not thinking this through, are you?[/QUOTE] “I lean toward a flat tax. But I want to make it real flat, like zero.” -Ron Paul, Jay Leno show, Oct. 31, 2007. Source: [url]http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Ron_Paul_Tax_Reform.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29078568]Please don't say the libertarian solution is to "Work harder".[/QUOTE] No, the libertarian solution is to stop perpetuating virtual monopolies through intellectual property, tax breaks for the super rich or super large corporate entities, stop government contracting, basically stopping the government from distorting the economy in the many ways it often does. Also, for those calling the United States a democracy, i don't care where it's referenced it's untrue. Pure democracy is also extremely damaging and directly responsible for many of the atrocities of mankind. Even most socialists concede a republic is better than a pure democracy, tyranny of the majority and all that.

[QUOTE=alucard_extreme;29078643]because they are private businesses and the government has no right to tell them how to run themselves its very simple, even though im not in support of the idea itself of racial discrimination[/QUOTE] Yeah see, I wouldn't be okay with that.

[QUOTE=alucard_extreme;29078604]HMO = health maintenance organization, you know, the current healthcare system nixon introduced in the 70s? read up on it, clearly you haven't much information to bring to the table[/QUOTE]Clearly your argument style constists of throwing contsant ad hominems at your opponents. I don't live in the US, you can't expect to know everything about American health care, and I don't expect you to know everything about the health care in my country. Could you please elaborate on a general level how socialising health care will make people rely more on the government in fear of their own economy?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;29078573]Democracy works just fine. On paper.[/QUOTE] You speak the truth as always my totalitarian friend. :3:

[QUOTE=alucard_extreme;29078623]too bad ron paul is all in favor of civil liberties that abide by the constitution, and a flat tax rate at his appropriated levels would mean the cutting of so much unnecessary bureaucracy. youre not thinking this through, are you?[/QUOTE] So because it's not in the constitution that gay people should, as humans, have the right to do what other people have the right to do, it's not really a right to do it you're not thinking at all, are you?

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;29078655]“I lean toward a flat tax. But I want to make it real flat, like zero.” -Ron Paul, Jay Leno show, Oct. 31, 2007. Source: [url]http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Ron_Paul_Tax_Reform.htm[/url][/QUOTE] i dont see the problem with that. a gradual decline to the elimination of the income tax would be good.

[QUOTE=alucard_extreme;29078643]because they are private businesses and the government has no right to tell them how to run themselves its very simple, even though im not in support of the idea itself of racial discrimination[/QUOTE] Governments have to protect the citizen's rights. None of those rights include "I don't want to sit next to the darkie".

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29078684]So because it's not in the constitution that gay people should, as humans, have the right to do what other people have the right to do, it's not really a right to do it you're not thinking at all, are you?[/QUOTE] read the 14th amendment please

Just look at the early 19th century. With no minimum wage people got payed very poorly and when hurt just got fired. I cant imagine why anyone would want this.

[QUOTE=s0beit;29078665]No, the libertarian solution is to stop perpetuating virtual monopolies through intellectual property, tax breaks for the super rich or super large corporate entities, stop government contracting, basically stopping the government from distorting the economy in the many ways it often does. Also, for those calling the United States a democracy, i don't care where it's referenced it's untrue. Pure democracy is also extremely damaging and directly responsible for many of the atrocities of mankind. Even most socialists concede a republic is better than a pure democracy, tyranny of the majority and all that.[/QUOTE] sounds great, but we both know what you said there is, well, meaningless. though, I'm all with you on the pure democracy being bad thing.

[QUOTE=torero;29078694]Governments have to protect the citizen's rights. None of those rights include "I don't want to sit next to the darkie".[/QUOTE] "i dont want to sit next to the darkie" isnt at all what ron paul perpetuates.

[QUOTE=alucard_extreme;29078699]read the 14th amendment please[/QUOTE] oh that explains why gays have rights in the US. oh wait

[QUOTE=alucard_extreme;29078688]i dont see the problem with that. a gradual decline to the elimination of the income tax would be good.[/QUOTE] I disagree. Are you okay with the government taxing anything?

Whats to stop monopoly in a libertarian world?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29078684]So because it's not in the constitution that gay people should, as humans, have the right to do what other people have the right to do, it's not really a right to do it you're not thinking at all, are you?[/QUOTE] I don't think marriage was ever defined as a right and the government shouldn't be in the business of marriage whatsoever. We discussed this in earlier topics, didn't we? If people were able to unite civilly without the central government being able to decide which unions are alright, or not, this entire issue could have been avoided.

[QUOTE=s0beit;29078722]I don't think marriage was ever defined as a right and the government shouldn't be in the business of marriage whatsoever. We discussed this in earlier topics, didn't we? If people were able to unite civilly without the central government being able to decide which unions are alright, or not, this entire issue could have been avoided.[/QUOTE] yes, we have, and yes, you're right. that would be much better that what is happening as of now.

[QUOTE=Ond kaja;29078673]Clearly your argument style constists of throwing contsant ad hominems at your opponents. I don't live in the US, you can't expect to know everything about American health care, and I don't expect you to know everything about the health care in my country.[/QUOTE] clearly the main topic is american politics. maybe you should have taken that into account beforehand? [quote]Could you please elaborate on a general level how socialising health care will make people rely more on the government in fear of their own economy?[/QUOTE] learn to not distort what i said, then ill answer properly

and i think marriage is pretty much a right, you can't see your loved one in a hospital room, and a whole host of other bullshit rules.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29078711]oh that explains why gays have rights in the US. oh wait[/QUOTE] " have the right to do what other people have the right to do" you didnt specify anything that gays can or cant do. are you saying gays are legally barred from prospering in society in an absolute fashion? you clearly are ignorant.