Health care should be like a voucher system. The government should allow you to pick whatever doctor you want, and they will pick up the tab and pay for whatever surgery or examination you need. The only socialist part is the fact that it's provided for everybody, you still have the freedom to choose your doctor.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28989116]
No healthcare unless you're well-off
No government enforcement of food, product, and workplace safety
"Majority rules" on civil rights issues such as gay marriage and racial equality[/QUOTE]
No public education
Businesses will be allowed to refuse service to someone because they're gay/black/a different religion
Businesses will be allowed to refuse to hire someone "" ""
Unregulated banking system
[editline]4th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=ilikeminifridge;28989756]Health care should be like a voucher system. The government should allow you to pick whatever doctor you want, and they will pick up the tab and pay for whatever surgery or examination you need. The only socialist part is the fact that it's provided for everybody, you still have the freedom to choose your doctor.[/QUOTE]
I didn't realize it wasn't like that anywhere
In Canada all the hospitals are either non-profit or private, they just bill the government
Doctors here don't work for the state either
Libertarians sound all nice to the average person, but in all reality the majority of Libertarians are the Tea Party with a bit less of a conservative tone. It sound great to limit federal government, but Libertarians also oppose federal and state funding for schools (ie, only private schools), business oversight and corporate regulation (no more FDA, no more health standards), a complete free market (no more government corporations, no more government regulation, including giving the right for businesses to segregate based on race, nationality, ethnicity, and religion), very limited taxes (no more service or military), and a load of other malarky which doesn't seem that great.
I like classic Libertarians, and I understand where they're coming from, infact I see myself as an ally to them in their regard for liberty and civil freedoms, but I vehemently oppose their economics. My beliefs in Democratic Socialism classify me as a Socialist Libertarian, which basically takes the liberalism in rights of libertarianism but combines the traditional leftist stance on economics, so in some ways I do see Libertarians as allies in a way- at least in half I see eye to eye as them.
A good friend of mine is a strong Libertarian, who recently began describing himself more as a Anarcho-Capitalist, but still holds his Libertarian thinking. We get into arguments all the time- the only real things we agree on are we both wish to see the current for of government abolished and rebuilt, we both see Dems and Reps as incompetent, and we both feel strongly for democracy and personal liberty- but when it comes to the extent of rights and economics, we are extremely polar.
Good for you, though, for choosing a third party to support, and good for you for standing up for your beliefs through the vote. We need less centrists in this nation, in my opinion, and more of those with strong stances who can swing things in a way to actually get things done in politics.
[QUOTE=Novistador;28989716]If there is a Libertarian out there advocating the legalization of slavery there not a Libertarian[/QUOTE]
No there is no libertarian wanting slavery but there are many who don't like workers right and some who dont want any at all which would make slavery legal or at the very least no required wage. This would mean that there would be a lot of people getting payed very little.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28989778]No public education
Businesses will be allowed to refuse service to someone because they're gay/black/a different religion
Businesses will be allowed to refuse to hire someone "" ""
Unregulated banking system
[editline]4th April 2011[/editline]
I didn't realize it wasn't like that anywhere
In Canada all the hospitals are either non-profit or private, they just bill the government
Doctors here don't work for the state either[/QUOTE]
People were scared that in our new health care bill that the government would pick a doctor for us and take away our freedom of choice. I don't know if this ever was true or if it is true though, maybe just more of Glen Beck's urinal cake speculations.
I'd rather pay into a government fund set up to help people rather than pay into a corporations pockets where only some of my money will help people, and there is always a chance they won't help me anyway.
Welcome to Libertarian America Simulator v1
You are a black man, and your car has just broken down outside of Generitown, Southernstate. You have a gas can with you and the town is just a five minute walk, so you tell your kids to wait in the car.
You get to the gas station and the man behind the counter reaches for the pistol on his hip. "We don't like your kind, now get out of my store", he says. Not wanting to get shot, you leave.
You figure you better find some accomodation for yourself and your family, as the sun is going down. You go up to the hotel and ask for a room. "Sorry sir, we're all out of rooms. Hotel across the street is too, unfortunately." On your way out, you hear the clerk rent a room to a white man. Enraged, you demand to speak to the supervisor. The supervisor comes out and tells you that he didn't do anything illegal and tells you to get off his property.
You phone up the ACLU a week later but they tell you that there's nothing they can do to help.
Enjoy your new America Libertaritards
How does one acquire a minimum wage job?
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;28990016]I'd rather pay into a government fund set up to help people rather than pay into a corporations pockets where only some of my money will help people, and there is always a chance they won't help me anyway.[/QUOTE]
The government's job is to protect and serve the people, one would hope they don't let corporations pocket money for someone's brain surgery or a child's liver transplant.
[editline]5th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28990098]Welcome to Libertarian America Simulator v1
You are a black man, and your car has just broken down outside of Generitown, Southernstate. You have a gas can with you and the town is just a five minute walk, so you tell your kids to wait in the car.
You get to the gas station and the man behind the counter reaches for the pistol on his hip. "We don't like your kind, now get out of my store", he says. Not wanting to get shot, you leave.
You figure you better find some accomodation for yourself and your family, as the sun is going down. You go up to the hotel and ask for a room. "Sorry sir, we're all out of rooms. Hotel across the street is too, unfortunately." On your way out, you hear the clerk rent a room to a white man. Enraged, you demand to speak to the supervisor. The supervisor comes out and tells you that he didn't do anything illegal and tells you to get off his property.
You phone up the ACLU but they tell you that there's nothing they can do to help.
Now what[/QUOTE]
Mary makes a turn for the worst, you can't ford the river and two of your best oxen that pulled your shitty car drown. Also since you traveled only with 12 grandfather clocks you are increasingly starved and exhausted. You also got Cholera.
[QUOTE=Laferio;28990100]How does one acquire a minimum wage job?[/QUOTE]
What's a "minimum wage"? You some kind of commie, boy?
The libertarian America simulator is played just like Oregon trail.
[QUOTE=ilikeminifridge;28990105]The government's job is to protect and serve the people, one would hope they don't let corporations pocket money for someone's brain surgery or a child's liver transplant.[/QUOTE]
Only that's how they work. That's how the insurance executives make money, from you. And if what you need is too expensive in the long run, they could just deny you, After all, they have a profit to make.
Sure the government is there to protect us, and they do to an extent. There are laws regarding what the Insurance companies can and cannot do, but what's the point? Why don't we just cut out the middle-man, and give the responsibility to the government.
At least then we don't have to worry about being rejected or denied, and we know more of our money is going to help us, rather than being split between helping us (maybe), and business expenses.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;28990251]Only that's how they work. That's how the insurance executives make money, from you. And if what you need is too expensive in the long run, they could just deny you, After all, they have a profit to make.
Sure the government is there to protect us, and they do to an extent. There are laws regarding what the Insurance companies can and cannot do, but what's the point? Why don't we just cut out the middle-man, and give the responsibility to the government.
At least then we don't have to worry about being rejected or denied, and we know more of our money is going to help us, rather than being split between helping us (maybe), and business expenses.[/QUOTE]
If you had coverage and the insurance company denies your claim, contrary to your contract, thats fraud and its the job of the government to prosecute the insurance company for that.
The difference between private companies and the government is that you have a choice with weather you want to fund or deal with private companies, the government can force you.
I really don't see how you think that handing control of everything over to the government would do anything to prevent fraud or corruption.
There are just as many politicians looking to cook the books and line their pockets by committing fraud as their are business men.
[QUOTE=Novistador;28990345]If you had coverage and the insurance company denies your claim, contrary to your contract, thats fraud and its the job of the government to prosecute the insurance company for that.
The difference between private companies and the government is that you have a choice with weather you want to fund or deal with private companies, the government can force you.
I really don't see how you think that handing control of everything over to the government would do anything to prevent fraud or corruption.
There are just as many politicians looking to cook the books and line their pockets by committing fraud as their are business men.[/QUOTE]
I've never been defrauded by the government, nor do I know anyone else who has been. If you apply for benefits that you qualify for, you will get those benefits. There is no logical reason to believe health care would be any different. Besides, I never hear about the government of Canada or the UK somehow defrauding it citizens using the government-run health care system.
Do you honestly believe that a government-run health insurance program would deny people coverage simply to somehow line the pockets of politicians?
This guy is a terrible portrayal of Libertarianism. At its core, Libertarianism is simply the belief that the government's sole purpose should be to protect the rights of citizens. I believe in this.
I agree OP, kill the poor.
[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;28983340]It's failed everywhere it was tried. It makes everyone pay higher taxes. It lowers the quality of healthcare. It makes longer waiting lines. It eliminates people's ability to choose their own healthcare plans and their own doctors. It means lesser healthcare for the elderly. It makes things even easier on people who don't work and skim off government. There is absolutely no desire for anyone to be a doctor. Oh and don't forget that ever since England adopted universal healthcare, patient deaths due to doctor negligence have risen nearly 80% more than they were before.
This is America, if you need a surgery, you get a job and you work for a living like a normal person, don't skim off government programs that let you sit on your ass for 5 years, or wait, even more years now, since they extended unemployment. For every one person who is legitimately bad off and incapable of rational thought and/or working, there are a thousand people who abuse the system for their own personal gain and take money off of social security. Plus it's not like people don't all get healthcare when they need it, liberal propaganda has people believing that if you go into an emergency room you won't get treated simply because you're not "super rich" which is a complete and utter lie. They are required to treat you, it doesn't matter how much money you have.
Why should the government decide what healthcare I get? Why should the government decide who my doctor is? It shouldn't, but that's what people want. People are getting lazy and stupid, they want the government to do everything for them, since they're too lazy to actually get off their ass and do something like they're supposed to. If anyone remembers during the 2008 election, reporters were asking random people off the street why they were voting for who they were voting for, and the number one answer for people who voted for Obama (a Democrat), was that he would "take care of them" and "pay off their debt for them" because they were too fucking stupid to pay off their own debt, in fact, they were stupid enough to get in debt to begin with by purchasing things they don't need on credit.[/QUOTE]
I work two jobs and I can't afford a doctor's visit. So fuck you.
My mother has to take care of a mentally handicapped daughter and cant work. She would be homeless if libertarians got there way.
[QUOTE=Novistador;28990345]If you had coverage and the insurance company denies your claim, contrary to your contract, thats fraud and its the job of the government to prosecute the insurance company for that.[/QUOTE]
You've never filled out the paperwork to apply to an American health insurance company have you. Do you really need to be told the ways they create back doors for themselves?
[QUOTE=Novistador;28990345]The difference between private companies and the government is that you have a choice with weather you want to fund or deal with private companies, the government can force you.[/QUOTE]
The difference between private companies and the government is that you have a choice between extortion and possible death with private companies. The government will cover you even if you're a tax evader.
[QUOTE=ilikeminifridge;28990188]The libertarian America simulator is played just like Oregon trail.[/QUOTE]
You have contracted dysentery
Please present debit card
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28991232]My mother has to take care of a mentally handicapped daughter and cant work. She would be homeless if libertarians got there way.[/QUOTE]
My grandmother got dropped after having a stroke. They dug up her medical history from 50+ years ago in Hungary just so they could find something she didn't mention on her contract under "noteworthy" past conditions. They dropped her because she didn't mention that her bunion was deformed when she was really young. Seriously. How is that noteworthy if it fixed itself, and doesn't it smell like shit? They just happened to do this right when they would have to pay a big amount for rehabilitating her? Bullshit.
Apparently it was legal to do this because "noteworthy" is a subjective word and it's the signer's responsibility to ask for clarification on things like this. Too bad most people think it's an innocent question that'll help them help you.
So yeah, her suffering for three years after her stroke and then dying, totally worth the extra 110k in the shareholder's pockets. Fucking assholes.
I feel sorry for you but still with no taxes my mother would be homeless right now.
[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;28983554]Upwards of $6900 a year.
There's a think called insurance in America, and your co-pay covers most of the cost of healthcare, including surgeries.[/QUOTE]
$6900? Do you make $2.50 an hour?
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28991499]I feel sorry for you but still with no taxes my mother would be homeless right now.[/QUOTE]
I forgot to say she lived in Florida. I was agreeing with you.
[QUOTE=Teddi Orange;28983748]One thing I've always wondered is if Americans know that in the UK, we have both public and private healthcare. The public is provided to everyone in the sense of everyone has it and it's provided at a pretty decent quality as well. If you want to go one step further and get possible extra "benefits" (ie the NHS won't pay for your fake tits) then you can go private.
So what's the problem?[/QUOTE]
Americans don't know anything about politics in other countries. Heck here we are barely taught anything about other countries, and when our courses change to include more world history or other points of views, all these rednecks complain about how crazy "these damn liberals are".
I remember some conservatives were complaining about how textbooks told of the treatment of Indians and how the settlers caused issues to the natives. Lots of people here deny the Indians as victims of genocide.
Not supporting the Republican Party or Democratic Party, and instead standing up for what you believe in and supporting a third party = disagree / dumb Facepunch?
Libertarianism is good. The Libertarian party is fucking retarded.
[QUOTE=Z Overlord;28991757]Americans don't know anything about politics in other countries. Heck here we are barely taught anything about other countries, and when our courses change to include more world history or other points of views, all these rednecks complain about how crazy "these damn liberals are".[/QUOTE]
There are plenty of Americans that know about politics in other countries, however the amount usually differs based on where you are. To act like we're all dumb rednecks is just ridiculous. I don't know where you live where the second you start learning about other world views, everyone talks about crazy liberals. You either live in the most Conservative state/city/area in the entire US, or are just exaggerating.
[editline]4th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=ShivanCommander;28991763]Not supporting the Republican Party or Democratic Party, and instead standing up for what you believe in and supporting a third party = disagree / dumb Facepunch?[/QUOTE]
People aren't disagreeing with that principle, they're disagreeing with the specific things you're saying you believe in, such as your thoughts on healthcare and the role of government.
[editline]4th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;28991778]Libertarianism is good. The Libertarian party is fucking retarded.[/QUOTE]
I personally believe that the government has a larger role to play than simply defending the citizen's rights, however that is integral to any decent government.
Yeah I live in a very conservative suburban area in San Diego County and many of the Conservatives here are in denial and think they are gonna make a "come back". Like all the youths are going to become conservative and church loving Christians like some stereotypical family movie.
Basically, they think Gay Marriage is defeated once and for all (prop 8), Obamacare (Universal Healthcare) is never going to be re-proposed ever, etc. Also I recall a local talking head here referring to the UK as a "massive welfare state".
I don't have a problem with universal healthcare, however I have a problem with most of the politicians that have been elected in the US.
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