If Donald Trump came out and said he is a Girl, normally there would be Skeptics, especially in the Government so the person who was treating Donald Trump would come out and confirm that he is Trans.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49828858]I don't see the circle. Explain the steps.
[/QUOTE]
Step 1: Talk about the Appearance of a Person "If they are too Manly, they are a Man, if they are too Feminine, they are a Woman"
Step 2: Someone comes and gives rational input and even sources about multiple problems.
Step 3: Cherry pick/ignore it.
Step 4: Repeat from Step 1.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49828858]
Somebody was on the debate team.[/QUOTE]
But it is an irrelevant conclusion.
And it's a stupid one as the Post isn't even Sexist as the world still sees stuff as "This is for Males and This is for Females, They act this way and look this way"
And let's just say it is Sexist, it's immature to automatically come to the conclusion that everyone in this thread (besides you obviously) is a Bigot, even tho no one else would agree with what he said.
[QUOTE=Xonax;49828856]But there is a "Gender Test", it's called seeing a Gender Therapist who deals with this shit.[/QUOTE]
Unless this gender therapist does a brain scan that can definitely say what gender you are with accuracy, I don't see this as an objective scientific standard.
[QUOTE]Also it's required for a whole bunch of shit like changing legal documents to the right Gender, Name and all that jazz.[/QUOTE]
So it's okay to deny somebody's gender if they don't change their legal documents? I find that unlikely.
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49828911]Unless this gender therapist does a brain scan that can definitely say what gender you are with accuracy, I don't see this as an objective scientific standard.
[/QUOTE]
You do know there are people who are actually educated and know what they are doing cause they went to School and learnt how to figure this shit out?
Also by your logic, unless the Doctor does a Brain Scan, I don't have a Tumor, even tho he says I do.
Or until he does an X-ray of my Broken Leg, it's not Broken.
[quote]
So it's okay to deny somebody's gender if they don't change their legal documents? I find that unlikely.[/quote]
No, what I was saying is that for Legal Documents, they have to have a confirmation from the Gender Therapist.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
Or and People don't have Autism because the Psychiatrist didn't give them Brain Scans, that is what you are basically saying.
There is more to determining that they are Trans than having a brain scan, there are things such as Attitudes, Personality, Clothing, even body movements, all of those are taken into consideration.
Even the smallest thing
They don't just go "Oh you are Trans because you said you are, here is the confirmation letter, thank you come again"
They spend months working with the client to make sure they are who they are.
[QUOTE]If Donald Trump came out and said he is a Girl, normally there would be Skeptics, especially in the Government so the person who was treating Donald Trump would come out and confirm that he is Trans.[/QUOTE]And if he didn't go to a therapist? And even if he did, wouldn't the therapist be denying his gender by disagreeing with his feelings?
[QUOTE]Step 1: Talk about the Appearance of a Person "If they are too Manly, they are a Man, if they are too Feminine, they are a Woman"
Step 2: Someone comes and gives rational input and even sources about multiple problems.
Step 3: Cherry pick/ignore it.
Step 4: Repeat from Step 1.[/QUOTE]
This is not what circular reasoning means.
[QUOTE]But it is an irrelevant conclusion.
And it's a stupid one as the Post isn't even Sexist as the world still sees stuff as "This is for Males and This is for Females, They act this way and look this way"
And let's just say it is Sexist, it's immature to automatically come to the conclusion that everyone in this thread (besides you obviously) is a Bigot, even tho no one else would agree with what he said.[/QUOTE]
It was just a joke, but it's where the contradiction between feminism and transgenderism comes in. Modern feminism claims that gender is a social construct and men and women's brains are identical. This usually concludes that saying that "women act like X" or "women like X" is sexist, untrue, and bigoted. Transgenderism, however, needs to claim that brains are different by gender. It's easy to see the trainwreck coming.
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49828972]And if he didn't go to a therapist? And even if he did, wouldn't the therapist be denying his gender by disagreeing with his feelings?
This is not what circular reasoning means.
It was just a joke, but it's where the contradiction between feminism and transgenderism comes in. Modern feminism claims that gender is a social construct and men and women's brains are identical. This usually concludes that saying that "women act like X" or "women like X" is sexist, untrue, and bigoted. Transgenderism, however, needs to claim that brains are different by gender. It's easy to see the trainwreck coming.[/QUOTE]
Brains ARE different by Gender.
And if he didn't go to a therapist, there would be NO therapist to disagree.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
Feminism has NOTHING to do with Transgenderism.
Feminism and Transgenderism are two separate things about two separate things.
They may mention each other but they are not the same thing at all.
[QUOTE]You do know there are people who are actually educated and know what they are doing cause they went to School and learnt how to figure this shit out?[/QUOTE]That's fine, but it's still somebody's opinion. It's not exactly a hard science.
[QUOTE]Also by your logic, unless the Doctor does a Brain Scan, I don't have a Tumor, even tho he says I do.
Or until he does an X-ray of my Broken Leg, it's not Broken.[/QUOTE]
No. It means that unless a doctor does a brain scan, you might have a tumor or you might not. Sure, we could look at the symptoms and make an educated guess, but it's much better to do the scan to make sure. Also, these symptoms are very hard to fake because they would be unconscious physical evidence (heart palpitations, loss of reflexes, blood pressure, fever, etc). It's not terribly out of the question that somebody could fake being trans if they wanted to.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Xonax;49828992]Brains ARE different by Gender.
And if he didn't go to a therapist, there would be NO therapist to disagree.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
Feminism has NOTHING to do with Transgenderism.
Feminism and Transgenderism are two separate things about two separate things.
They may mention each other but they are not the same thing at all.[/QUOTE]
They do have something to do with each other because they contradict each other. I never said or implied they were the same thing. I am of the opinion that brains do have gender and modern feminists are batshit insane. This was just a side-note by the way. Nothing to do with my stance on pronouns.
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49829004]That's fine, but it's still somebody's opinion. It's not exactly a hard science.
No. It means that unless a doctor does a brain scan, you might have a tumor or you might not. Sure, we could look at the symptoms and make an educated guess, but it's much better to do the scan to make sure. Also, these symptoms are very hard to fake because they would be unconscious physical evidence (heart palpitations, loss of reflexes, blood pressure, fever, etc). It's not terribly out of the question that somebody could fake being trans if they wanted to.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
[/quote]
[QUOTE=Xonax;49828930]
Or and People don't have Autism because the Psychiatrist didn't give them Brain Scans, that is what you are basically saying.
There is more to determining that they are Trans than having a brain scan, there are things such as Attitudes, Personality, Clothing, even body movements, all of those are taken into consideration.
Even the smallest thing
They don't just go "Oh you are Trans because you said you are, here is the confirmation letter, thank you come again"
They spend months working with the client to make sure they are who they are.[/QUOTE]
How about you answer that and not Cherry Pick?
[quote]
They do have something to do with each other because they contradict each other. I never said or implied they were the same thing. I am of the opinion that brains do have gender and modern feminists are batshit insane. This was just a side-note by the way. Nothing to do with my stance on pronouns.[/QUOTE]
That's like saying Christianity has something to do with Judaism because they contradict each other.
Or Hitler and Obama as they Contradict each other.
[QUOTE]I want to know what you look like, I don't want to know what you feel like[/QUOTE]
Man this is a hell of a video
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49828646]
If they look indistinguishable to the sex of their preferred gender, I'd be okay calling them by their pronouns.[/QUOTE]
I really like how you refuse the idea of gender being a social construct then immediately admit you're only okay with calling classic examples of modern, "socially acceptable" constructs of the female/male form by the pronouns you consider correct for them.
[QUOTE=Xonax;49829023]Or and People don't have Autism because the Psychiatrist didn't give them Brain Scans, that is what you are basically saying.
There is more to determining that they are Trans than having a brain scan, there are things such as Attitudes, Personality, Clothing, even body movements, all of those are taken into consideration.
Even the smallest thing
They don't just go "Oh you are Trans because you said you are, here is the confirmation letter, thank you come again"
They spend months working with the client to make sure they are who they are.[/QUOTE]Somebody could fake being autistic as well.
Are you saying somebody couldn't fake attitudes, personality, clothing, or body movements for a therapist? Didn't Jeffrey Tambor from Transparent win a Golden Globe for doing just that?
[QUOTE=Xonax;49829023]That's like saying Christianity has something to do with Judaism because they contradict each other.
Or Hitler and Obama as they Contradict each other.[/QUOTE]Contradiction is a relationship between two incompatible ideas. Now we are just arguing semantics for no reason.
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49829083]Somebody could fake being autistic as well.
Are you saying somebody couldn't fake attitudes, personality, clothing, or body movements for a therapist? Didn't Jeffrey Tambor from Transparent win a Golden Globe for doing just that?
[/quote]
And if they do fake it, they will be called out, like the million times before.
[quote]
Contradiction is a relationship between two incompatible ideas. Now we are just arguing semantics for no reason.[/QUOTE]
But Judaism and Christianity are two incompatible ideas.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
I just remembered, you yourself even said that there is Biological Evidence about Trans.
It's all about the Language that you find confusing, how about you make your mind up.
What is it, is it the whole Transgender stuff? Or is it just the language?
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
I wanna go back to their appearances as I said pretty much everything I could on determining if they are Trans or not.
My final words on it are, Pyschiatrists and Gender Therapists know what they are doing, they have been trained in these areas, they look into the background of the Patient, they go back to their younger years and look for anything that can indicate that they are Trans, and they look at the personality, attitude, looks and body movement.
Yes it can be faked, and it will be called out.
Right so I wanna play a little scenario.
FTM
[t]http://i.imgur.com/1nWFGlf.jpg[/t]
MTF
[t]http://i.imgur.com/iuHLEXG.jpg[/t]
Now I just wanna clear up, no clue if they still have their genitals that they were born with or got them removed, for this Scenario lets say they still have them.
What are the pronouns you use?
[QUOTE=latin_geek;49829048]I really like how you refuse the idea of gender being a social construct then immediately admit you're only okay with calling classic examples of modern, "socially acceptable" constructs of the female/male form by the pronouns you consider correct for them.[/QUOTE]
I refuse the idea of gender being a social construct because I believe that gender is biologically determined in the brain. Gender roles are influenced by biology as well.
Women were not hunters/fighters because they had a uterus and were therefore more valuable to the tribe than men. One man with three women can have 3 kids at a time. One woman with three men can only have 1 kid at a time. Over time, the tribes where the men were hunters/fighters would out compete, out breed, and eliminate the tribes where women were hunters/fighters.
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49829130]I refuse the idea of gender being a social construct because I believe that gender is biologically desired in the brain. Gender roles are influenced by biology as well.
[/QUOTE]
So what the fuck is your point?
If you believe that the gender is biologically desired in the brain, then you should have no problems what so ever about Trans people.
But you don't want to use the correct Pronouns because one person may look too Manly or Feminine, but you will use the correct Pronouns for a person who was Born a Woman and looks more Manly than most Females, vice versa with Feminine Men.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
You are not only a Hypocrite, but a Bigot.
[QUOTE]I just remembered, you yourself even said that there is Biological Evidence about Trans.
It's all about the Language that you find confusing, how about you make your mind up.
What is it, is it the whole Transgender stuff? Or is it just the language?[/QUOTE]The language.
[QUOTE]Right so I wanna play a little scenario.
FTM
[t]http://i.imgur.com/1nWFGlf.jpg[/t]
MTF
[t]http://i.imgur.com/iuHLEXG.jpg[/t]
Now I just wanna clear up, no clue if they still have their genitals that they were born with or got them removed, for this Scenario lets say they still have them.
What are the pronouns you use?[/QUOTE]
If I don't know their genitals, I would call them by their preferred pronouns because they appear male and female.
If I do know their genitals, I would call them trans-he and trans-she. He or she don't really fit because they are different than the normal population. I might slip up and say he or she out of habit of course, but I can't logically say they are the same.
If they have done surgery to the point where they are indistinguishable from the normal population in every way, then things get more hazy. If I know they are genetically of the opposite sex, but they appear 100% legit, then I would probably go by the preferred pronouns.
Just to confirm: is BasedVidya's argument that sex = gender, and as such trans people should be defined by their original sexual organs only?
[QUOTE=Xonax;49829139]So what the fuck is your point?[/QUOTE]
The point is that transwomen are not exactly women. Transmen are not exactly men. They are something completely different, but are co-opting the words associated with normal men and women to confuse the fuck out of everyone. The trans community wants to use the exactly same words. It's like if the gay community refused to be known as gay or homosexual and just wanted to be known as people to make dating a living nightmare.
Somebody has to say the obvious: that the trans community is a vast minority and they need to play by majority rules. I'm not just going to let a tiny group change the definitions of basic words that have been in use for millenia because it hurts their feelings. They need to accept that they are something different and either use new words or accept that people will mix up their preferred pronouns fairly often unless they look like their preferred sex.
It would only be as confusing as you want it to be. I don't see a reason why trans people have to play by majority rules, when what they want to change is so insignificant.
TBH what you're saying sounds like that one argument against gay marriage, where people say that it changes the definition of marriage and that they should either find their own term or not get married at all.
Oh my, this website is full of "progressive", leftist liberals, i bet you all vote for Hilary.
Every time someone posts something non PC , most of you jump like rabbits, and then you might get banned if you disagree.
Saying what is on your mind is getting impossible now a days .
Some people disagree on transgender, gays, immigrants, muslims, blacks, because these "categories" are kind of new and have a lot of problems attached to them, but noooooooooo its "BAD" if you talk about this, you are racist and bla bla bla...
[highlight](User was banned for this post (""Oh my, this website is full of "progressive", leftist liberals, i bet you all vote for Hilary." don't make dumb posts like this" - postal))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=lucilk;49829344]Oh my, this website is full of "progressive", leftist liberals, i bet you all vote for Hilary.
Every time someone posts something non PC , most of you jump like rabbits, and then you might get banned if you disagree.
Saying what is on your mind is getting impossible now a days .
Some people disagree on transgender, gays, immigrants, muslims, blacks, because these "categories" are kind of new and have a lot of problems attached to them, but noooooooooo its "BAD" if you talk about this, you are racist and bla bla bla...[/QUOTE]
Black people are new and have problems attached to them???
the only good thing about this video is the bg music
dr. dre might have gone to the next level but this guy went back 1000 levels
[QUOTE=Kljunas;49829372]Black people are new and have problems attached to them???[/QUOTE]
nonono don't you know that black people are a whole new concept
they were invented 15 years ago were you living under a rock???
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49829204]
If they have done surgery to the point where they are indistinguishable from the normal population in every way, then things get more hazy. If I know they are genetically of the opposite sex, but they appear 100% legit, then I would probably go by the preferred pronouns.[/QUOTE]
This actually seems more confusing than how trans people already normally do things.
We know that people have different brains depending on what gender they have, they have either a male brain or a female brain (well specifically they have particular neural pathways that we can identify as either 'male' or 'female), and that this can be diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Why not just say 'Gender' is whatever brain they have, and 'Sex' is whatever chromosomes they have?
Is that not more simple than using some convoluted method to distinguish people into 4 or more individual categories that are more difficult to say and much more confusing?
If your only problem is how complicated the language is, why are you using the most complicated solution?
This is the hole we've dug for ourselves insofar as human social and cultural development, basically when we refer to someone as male or female we aren't just talking about what they have been their legs, we also prescribe onto them a whole bunch of behaviors, physical conditions and both neurological and psychological states. This is why there needs to be a distinction between male/female (sex, concerning biology in animals) and man/woman (gender, concerning individuals in human society and all the expectations and behaviours we've heaped onto them).
So male/female (sex) and man/woman (gender) are two different things. You can be a man and be female or you can be a woman and be male, it just depends on what you're talking about and what context you're using, if that makes sense. I reckon that makes far more sense and fits better in general conversation than "hello, trans-female person".
A simple binary sex system is insufficient to categorize the variety of human behaviors that exist. Gender is merely the term used to describe certain aspects of identity. The biological elements (sex) have a powerful influence on gender, but they are not the entirety. And though female/feminine/woman and male/masculine/man align a lot of the time, the terms man and woman encompass varying degrees of combination of male/female biology and masculinity/femininity.
So vidya have you actually given a reason as to why calling a trans person by their preferred pronouns is actually bad?
[QUOTE=PelPix123;49829481]This is generally the ideal for me personally but the problem is that a lot of people don't even go this far.[/QUOTE]
Well, it's the reality of the world we live in. Some people literally do not fit into the binary male/man and female/woman categories, so we need some way of describing those people. Instead of employing new words we just need to understand that male/female does not mean the same thing as man/woman. That's the least confusing way of doing things.
The people who languish over pronouns and think this is such a confusing topic really show that they are either immensely sheltered or just have never met a transgender person.
We had this guy at work, a new hire, transition to female (if I'm using any terminology incorrectly I'm sure Kyle will set me straight). There was the break-room chatter that you would usually expect from such a thing happening in a fairly conservative part of the country but after some weeks went by and it became normal everyone just adjusted. She had a new name, she used the female restrooms, no one gave a shit. Average, every day working American had, for the most part, no real issues accepting her for who she was. I don't see why it's such a challenge for other people.
Just felt like sharing that anecdote. I don't know enough about the gender, sex, chromosomes or any of this stuff so I won't dive into that. I'm just not seeing why it's confusing.
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49829263]The point is that transwomen are not exactly women. Transmen are not exactly men. They are something completely different, but are co-opting the words associated with normal men and women to confuse the fuck out of everyone.[/quote]
Transmen are men in all ways that matter and if that confuses you then you're very easily confused. The only thing that doesnt make them feel male to you is the arbitrary shitty criteria you use to justify your own apparent bigotry.
[quote]
The trans community wants to use the exactly same words. It's like if the gay community refused to be known as gay or homosexual and just wanted to be known as people to make dating a living nightmare.[/quote]
How does the trans community make anything confusing at all? The only one confused here is you.
[Quote]
Somebody has to say the obvious: that the trans community is a vast minority and they need to play by majority rules. I'm not just going to let a tiny group change the definitions of basic words that have been in use for millenia because it hurts their feelings.[/quote]
We arent changing definitions. Transwomen are psychologically female. Transmen are psychologically male. Using biology to define individuals identities is completely retarded. If anything you're the one making shit confusing
[quote]
They need to accept that they are something different and either use new words or accept that people will mix up their preferred pronouns fairly often unless they look like their preferred sex.[/QUOTE]
Or you could literally just call them by their preferred pronouns because its the polite thing to do???
From your video its quite apparent that you're simply bigoted, and that these attempts at debate are just shoddy attempts at justifying your bigotry.
[QUOTE=PelPix123;49829481]This is generally the ideal for me personally but the problem is that a lot of people don't even go this far.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
I understand what BasedVidya is saying. He's saying that he understands what trans people are and why they are the way they are and furthermore buys into how trans people become the way they are but is confused as to why trans people seek validation as "real women."
It's a reasonable question tbh. Why DO trans people seek validation as "real women?" The answer is kind of complicated.
When a trans person is born, they're born with sex dysphoria. That is to say: they're born with a fundamental mismatch between the body their brain expects. This is very shitty. Over time, the trans person often comes to identify more with the social climate associated with the sex with the body their brain expects. Unlike the physical dysphoria, which is born in, this is very much a process of social learning. It's interesting and important to understand that liking the opposite sex's attributed social stuff (names, clothing, interests, etc) is not actually part of the core experience of being trans, but is just a common consequence of that dysphoria interacting with a society that's based around the two sexes.
How these two forces interact is kind of interesting. Physical dysphoria is garbage and never goes away for your entire life, and the easiest way to avoid it for most trans people is to cover it up with social transitioning. That way they have a bunch of shit that they can use to distract themselves from their dysphoria.
Essentially, at least from my perspective, social transitioning isn't a treatment for dysphoria, it's a coping mechanism. Changing the body is the only thing that actually lessens the absolute dysphoria. Social transitioning just something that strengthens the person and makes them more resilient to the dysphoria.
But it doesn't always work, especially when someone refers to them by the wrong pronouns. Why? Because it creates feedback that reminds them of their physical dysphoria through the social learning that happened in paragraph 1. Essentially: "He" -> Generally ascribed to people with male anatomy -> Oh god I have male anatomy what the fuck. Essentially, trans people don't like being misgendered because it topples the stack of boxes they've placed over their dysphoria. They have to stack all the boxes up all over again every. single. time. and it's really high-effort, time-consuming, emotionally taxing, and drives a lot of people to attempt suicide because they're just plain fucking sick of doing it (myself included).
In a lot of people, this social transitioning can also be integrated into their overall mindset via classical conditioning and become more than a coping mechanism, and then this whole process collapses together into one piece and it gets blurry. As a trans person gets further and further into transition, I find a lot forget exactly why it makes them feel garbage. It just goes from being misgendered directly to feeling like garbage after a while. This is why a lot of people still have gradually declining echoes of dysphoria even after they pass and everything is OK. They've been classically conditioned from years of being dysphoric about their body.[/QUOTE]
Based on what you're saying, is it possible that if we (society/humans) didn't have such a strong distinction between what we see as male/masucline behaviour and female/feminine behaviour (i.e. gender roles) then it would allow people with gender dysphoria to 'act how they feel', so to speak?
I'm not sure if I'm explaining this correctly, but from what your saying, if we didn't have socially reinforced gendered behaviors then trans people wouldn't suffer from their dysphoria as much, correct?
Like if we suddenly said gender doesn't exist anymore and made all bathrooms unisex and stuff and said that everybody could just act how they feel and call themselves whatever they want, what would actually happen?
[QUOTE=Zyler;49829509]Based on what you're saying, is it possible that if we (society/humans) didn't have such a strong distinction between what we see as male/masucline behaviour and female/feminine behaviour (i.e. gender roles) then it would allow people with gender dysphoria to 'act how they feel', so to speak?
[/quote] the pain will always be there unless we somehow discovered a way to perfectly change someones sex to match their gender. It is however greatly diminished by being able to act and be seen as who we are.
[Quote]
I'm not sure if I'm explaining this correctly, but from what your saying, if we didn't have socially reinforced gendered behaviors then trans people wouldn't suffer from their dysphoria as much, correct?[/quote]
You're correct.
[Quote]
Like if we suddenly said gender doesn't exist anymore and made all bathrooms unisex and stuff and said that everybody could just act how they feel and call themselves whatever they want, what would actually happen?[/QUOTE]
You're thinking of gender roles. Gender is still at some level tied into biology. Anyways if society was to abolish gender roless and social expectations then it probably would mitigate dysphoria by a non-insignificant amount. But it would still be there
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49829263]The point is that transwomen are not exactly women. Transmen are not exactly men. They are something completely different, but are co-opting the words associated with normal men and women to confuse the fuck out of everyone. The trans community wants to use the exactly same words. It's like if the gay community refused to be known as gay or homosexual and just wanted to be known as people to make dating a living nightmare.[/quote]
Transwomen are fucking Women, they don't decide who they are, they are who they are, they are born a Female/Male, the body is born the opposite. The body isn't the person, the brain is the person.
Also I assure you, they will bring up the fact that they are Trans when dating.
And we have the right to use the same words as He and She cause we identify as the gender those pronouns are associated with.
[quote]Somebody has to say the obvious: that the trans community is a vast minority and they need to play by majority rules. I'm not just going to let a tiny group change the definitions of basic words that have been in use for millenia because it hurts their feelings. They need to accept that they are something different and either use new words or accept that people will mix up their preferred pronouns fairly often unless they look like their preferred sex.[/QUOTE]
We aren't changing the definition, She/Her = Female. He/Him = Male.
Trans people identify as one of those.
TRANS IS NOT A GENDER.
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49829204]The language.[/quote]
Okay so this proves my point that you are a hypocrite, if you can call a Manly Female a She and a feminine Male a He, then you can call a Trans Man and Trans Woman by their preferred pronouns.
Also nice double standard views you got.
[quote]
If I don't know their genitals, I would call them by their preferred pronouns because they appear male and female.
If I do know their genitals, I would call them trans-he and trans-she. He or she don't really fit because they are different than the normal population. I might slip up and say he or she out of habit of course, but I can't logically say they are the same.
If they have done surgery to the point where they are indistinguishable from the normal population in every way, then things get more hazy. If I know they are genetically of the opposite sex, but they appear 100% legit, then I would probably go by the preferred pronouns.[/QUOTE]
Also this makes you a bigot, since Genitals = Everything.
Trans-He and Trans-She is fucking stupid and offensive.
Their gender aren't Trans you idiot, it's the gender they Identify with.
Also if they have the correct Genitals, then what's the problem? So what if they have XX or XY Chromosones, you yourself said you would call the people who were born with the opposite sexes Chromosones by their actual Gender Pronouns.
Double Standards again, nice.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
The only thing you give a fuck about is the genitals.
What about the Women who aren't trans, but born with Penises? Or Men who aren't trans born with Vagina's? By your logic they aren't Real Women nor Men.
And yes it does happen.
You don't care about people born with the opposite sexes Chromosones as seen here
[QUOTE=BasedVidya;49827454]A. I say "at birth" to emphasis that changing chromosomes at age 23 with future technology doesn't magically change one's sex.
B. Fair enough. I suppose it's neither chromosomes or genitals but our total genetic makeup. Either way, transpeople do not have that genetic makeup.[/QUOTE]
And you obviously don't care if a Woman/Man is born with Manly/Feminine Features and use their correct Pronouns (please prove me wrong)
You just don't like Trans people enough to use the right pronouns or see them as who they actually are.
Like I said, you are a Bigoted, Double Standared Hypocrite
How hard is it just to use the right pronouns? It's understandable if you can't tell the difference, if you slip up they will correct you, and if you are telling someone like the police, then chances are it's not going to be a big deal cause the Police will be corrected by the person.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
And if you are against the Gender Social Construct then why the fuck does it matter so much to you about the pronouns?
Pronouns are a part of the Social Construct, and if you want to help get rid of it, then surely Mis-using the Pronoun Definitions (Which you are not mis-using either way) would be fantastic.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
Also by your logic, Pronouns = Genitals.
[editline]28th February 2016[/editline]
Here is another thing.
All the Trans community want is to be accepted, and to have our correct pronouns used.
So the fuck what if you don't think we are real women or men, we won't be happy but we know we are a long way from getting a whole lot of respect by everyone, Gays while are more accepted, aren't fucking that accepted in a whole lot of areas, they will get killed if they are even heard mentioning the word Gay (not literally) in most areas.
People like you are the reason a lot of Trans people are scared of coming out, because you don't accept us for who we truly are, you can't apparently even be polite and use our proper pronouns.
Being called the opposite sex by accident doesn't feel good, but you know what feels worse, Being called Trans-He or Trans-She, cause that makes us feel like we don't belong, that we aren't real fucking people.
If you honestly respect us Trans, and you support us, then the least you can do is treat us with fucking respect.
How would you feel if I didn't called you a He? But something else entirely?
You would feel belittled, you would feel like you are worthless.
I think this is a problem with trying to be, for lack of a better term, taxonomically 'correct'. Language is by it's very nature contextual and trying to be 'correct' in your use of language is pretty much impossible because words means different things to different people.
The language we speak was more or less invented by people who lived hundreds if not thousands of years ago, what gives those people authority on what is 'correct'? Language isn't used because it's 'correct', it's used because it's convenient and because we're too lazy to speak in mathematical formulas or learn/invent a more correct language.
Calling people what they want to be called isn't a matter of being 'correct' or not, it's a matter of being polite versus being an asshole.
Ultimately, if you're using language to get ideas across then you should just use whatever language suits the message you're trying to deliver and whomever you're supposed to be delivering it to.
Also just to clear things up.
Vidya, lets say theres a woman at work who you have a good working relationship with. After a while you two develop a friendship. One day she decides that she trusts you enough to pull you aside and give you a heart to heart about how she was born anatomically male. She ends the conversation by asking you to please not go around telling everyone this. Would you suddenly start referring to her as a transwoman in front of everyone?
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