Sex, Girlfriends and Shit VII: "Power Moves For High Quality Women" - General

[QUOTE=_Axel;51189735]Well if she wants to have sex with him she'll probably be a bit biased about this but it's the best course of action I guess.[/QUOTE] I'm assuming/hoping she isn't a shitty friend.

[QUOTE=darksoul69;51189707]But she was also "joking" with him about cheating earlier so.. Kirbyfactor are you exclusive? A lot of people assume they're exclusive but if the discussion never took place then it's really an open relationship. I would have that discussion now if you haven't done so already.[/QUOTE] Maybe that's just me but when in a relationship I assume exclusivity is the default state, flirting around without having a discussion about the openness of the relationship first is a shitty thing to do and basically cheating. Like if people assume they're exclusive then they are, plain and simple, the responsibility of having the discussion rests on the party that wants openness.

[QUOTE=Bucketboy;51189578]Ops sorry for not being clear. My ex girlfriends best friend.[/QUOTE] I started dating one of my friend's ex towards the end of high school about a month after they broke up. What ensued was middle school type drama and him getting as many people to hate me as possible. Apparently one of our mutual friends said he'd "burn my house down." We're still dating. Was it worth it? Absolutely. [editline]11th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Guy Mannly;51189684]Her best friend is probably the best person to ask about this. She probably knows whether your ex would be bothered by it.[/QUOTE] Imo, who cares what his ex thinks? If he's not doing it to spite his ex, who cares?

[QUOTE=_Axel;51189754]Maybe that's just me but when in a relationship I assume exclusivity is the default state, flirting around without having a discussion about the openness of the relationship first is a shitty thing to do and basically cheating. [B]Like if people assume they're exclusive then they are, plain and simple, the responsibility of having the discussion rests on the party that wants openness.[/B][/QUOTE] [I]Well I assumed we were in an open relationship since exclusivity never came up. If you wanted to be exclusive why didn't you discuss it?[/I]

[QUOTE=darksoul69;51189814][I]Well I assumed we were in an open relationship since exclusivity never came up. If you wanted to be exclusive why didn't you discuss it?[/I][/QUOTE] Yeah and what I'm saying is that's not how it works. That's basically a shitty excuse shitty people use if they get caught cheating. Exclusivity is the default state when it comes to relationships. If you want your relationship to be open, discuss it with your partner, otherwise you're an asshole.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51189833]Yeah and what I'm saying is that's not how it works. That's basically a shitty excuse shitty people use if they get caught cheating. If you want your relationship to be open, discuss it with your partner. Otherwise you're an asshole. Exclusivity is the default state when it comes to relationships.[/QUOTE] If you don't discuss exclusivity with your partner never assume being in an exclusive relationship. She's not your fiance or wife.

I agree tbh, while exclusivity is the default for most people, it's not for everyone and should always be a conversation you should have, regardless.

[QUOTE=darksoul69;51189843]If you don't discuss exclusivity with your partner never assume being in an exclusive relationship. She's not your fiance or wife.[/QUOTE] You don't need a formal agreement to ensure exclusivity. If you consider her your girlfriend and she considers you her boyfriend and openness was never discussed, then it is implied that the relationship is exclusive. Open relationships are the exception, not the norm, so it's simply logical that it is the base assumption. Besides, what's the most emotionally damaging scenario? That one of the partner assumes the relationship is open and fucks around, basically breaking the other's trust, or that both partners assume it is exclusive and proceed to talk to the other about openness if that's what they want? It just makes more sense when it comes to trust and respect to consider every relationship exclusive unless another arrangement is explicitly discussed.

[QUOTE=darksoul69;51189707]But she was also "joking" with him about cheating earlier so.. [/QUOTE] And my partner jokes about divorcing me. Doesn't mean I should assume the worst if they get upset when I accuse them of breaking it off.

[QUOTE=Pascall;51189862]I agree tbh, while exclusivity is the default for most people, it's not for everyone and should always be a conversation you should have, regardless.[/QUOTE] From a pragmatic standpoint sure, better to cover for all scenarios and discuss it with your partner in case they usually do it open. But if neither discuss it and one of them does it open, that person is in the wrong. It's common knowledge even among those who do open relationships that exclusivity is way more common, so saying exclusivity was never discussed and using that as an excuse is basically feigning ignorance and abuse of trust.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51189867]You don't need a formal agreement to ensure exclusivity. If you consider her your girlfriend and she considers you her boyfriend and openness was never discussed, then it is implied that the relationship is exclusive. Open relationships are the exception, not the norm, so it's simply logical that it is the base assumption. Besides, what's the most emotionally damaging scenario? That one of the partner assumes the relationship is open and fucks around, basically breaking the other's trust, or that both partners assume it is exclusive and proceed to talk to the other about openness if that's what they want? It just makes more sense when it comes to trust and respect to consider every relationship exclusive unless another arrangement is explicitly discussed.[/QUOTE] Yeah I don't know what you guys are talking about, exclusivity is almost always implied in a boyfriend/girlfriend type situation. If you guys just casually hook up or something then it's different, but if you have an even remotely "emotional" attachment in the relationship and you call each other boyfriend/girlfriend then "oh you never said we were exclusive" just sounds like a cop-out for being a cheater, at least in the US.

[QUOTE=Guy Mannly;51189684]Her best friend is probably the best person to ask about this. She probably knows whether your ex would be bothered by it.[/QUOTE] Thing is, i stumbled upon her last Saturday she basically came out of no where saying hey, it was a very long time ago, how are you and so on. She sounded very happy about seeing me. Like nothing happend in the past. When it ended with my ex she happend to be with her at the time and it did not end well but it felt wierd in a way that she spoke to me in that way, i don't know. I mean, she hugged me in a way which isn't the friend hug way if you know what i mean. I was so suprised i didn't even know what to say. So i went like this Her: It's so good to see you again! Me: is it? Her: yeeah, how long has it been? Me: um more than a year i think? But it cooled off, we laughed, had discussions and then we parted ways. Then i met her again at the night club as i was moving into the dance floor, she grabbed my arm and pulled me towards her like she wanted to say " I'm here! " We danced for a very short time, it still felt wierd but i was somewhat happy? Anyway for some reason before going to the club i sent her a text on massenger asking how she was getting home because i know she lives 50 minutes away but it was never viewed until later. Before she left the club i went up to her and asked her again in person and she said her friends sister is coming to pick her up and i told her it sounds good. Thing is i wanted to tell her to stay but i was somewhat afraid to ask. To be honest i think i was worried about her? I didn't want her to take a cab home so it felt somewhat good to know her friend is coming to pick her up.

Not to mention the fact that she was joking about cheating makes it obvious it's not an open relationship because if it were, cheating wouldn't even be a thing to joke about in the first place.

Where do you guys put dating among all this exclusivity talk?

[QUOTE=UzumakaiPatch;51189923]Where do you guys put dating among all this exclusivity talk?[/QUOTE] What do you mean? Whether people should only date one person at a time?

[QUOTE=_Axel;51189754]Maybe that's just me but when in a relationship I assume exclusivity is the default state, flirting around without having a discussion about the openness of the relationship first is a shitty thing to do and basically cheating. Like if people assume they're exclusive then they are, plain and simple, the responsibility of having the discussion rests on the party that wants openness.[/QUOTE] well that's a dumb way to look at it, because if you assume you're exclusive but your partner assumes it's open, one of you is going to get hurt (the exclusive one, almost certainly) i dont' see why asking about exclusivity is particularly difficult

[QUOTE=_Axel;51189867]You don't need a formal agreement to ensure exclusivity. If you consider her your girlfriend and she considers you her boyfriend and openness was never discussed, then it is implied that the relationship is exclusive. Open relationships are the exception, not the norm, so it's simply logical that it is the base assumption. Besides, what's the most emotionally damaging scenario? That one of the partner assumes the relationship is open and fucks around, basically breaking the other's trust, or that both partners assume it is exclusive and proceed to talk to the other about openness if that's what they want? It just makes more sense when it comes to trust and respect to consider every relationship exclusive unless another arrangement is explicitly discussed.[/QUOTE] It's a two way street - if you want exclusivity make sure it's discussed. Don't just assume because of xyz you're exclusive. Maybe her (or his) understanding of your relationship is different. I understand some people use this argument to cheat and try getting off scott free. But the honest truth is unless you discuss exclusivity you're not exclusive regardless on your emotional attachment. The conversation takes a total of ten seconds. "Hey, we're exclusive right?" "Yeah!".

[QUOTE=E = MC Hammer;51189943]well that's a dumb way to look at it, because if you assume you're exclusive but your partner assumes it's open, one of you is going to get hurt (the exclusive one, almost certainly) i dont' see why asking about exclusivity is particularly difficult[/QUOTE] Isn't it equally dumb to assume you're not exclusive despite the fact that your culture heavily implies exclusivity?

[QUOTE=E = MC Hammer;51189943]well that's a dumb way to look at it, because if you assume you're exclusive but your partner assumes it's open, one of you is going to get hurt (the exclusive one, almost certainly) i dont' see why asking about exclusivity is particularly difficult[/QUOTE] And what I'm saying is that precisely because of the very scenario you mention along with the fact that exclusivity is overwhelmingly more widespread, you're at fault if you assume it's an open relationship without prior clarification. That's not a particularly difficult concept to grasp either, is it?

regardless of whether or not "assuming it's open" or "assuming it's exclusive" is more widespread, if you two have differing opinions of it, one of you will get hurt. at best, you're assuming that both people think it's open, but you can't really know for sure unless you talk about it

[QUOTE=darksoul69;51189953]It's a two way street - if you want exclusivity make sure it's discussed. Don't just assume because of xyz you're exclusive. Maybe her (or his) understanding of your relationship is different. I understand some people use this argument to cheat and try getting off scott free. But the honest truth is unless you discuss exclusivity you're not exclusive regardless on your emotional attachment. The conversation takes a total of ten seconds. "Hey, we're exclusive right?" "Yeah!".[/QUOTE] It's easy to say that it's as simple as just asking, but the fact of the matter is that exclusivity is the norm (I'd even bet a majority of people don't even know open relationships are a thing) so most people assume it is the case in their relationship and thus it doesn't come to mind to wonder whether it is actually the case. Conversely, people who do open relationships are well aware that most people only deal in exclusive relationship, thus it is quite probable that it is the case of their current partner as well. In such a situation to go open without discussing it with your partner is the equivalent of betting the family car at a casino. The odds are just as overwhelmingly against you and the damage potential is comparably high. Thus it is highly irresponsible and disrespectful for your partner to do such a thing. I don't even know why I need to explain this in detail.

you're making a lot of really weird assumptions and i'm honestly not REALLY sure what point you're even trying to make??? communication = good

[QUOTE=E = MC Hammer;51189993]regardless of whether or not "assuming it's open" or "assuming it's exclusive" is more widespread, if you two have differing opinions of it, one of you will get hurt. at best, you're assuming that both people think it's open, but you can't really know for sure unless you talk about it[/QUOTE] As I just explained, most people don't even know open relationships are a thing and those who do likely won't think about it as a possibility seeing as they're not common. We're not discussing whether or not you should have that discussion with your partner if it comes to mind since it doesn't for the large majority of people.

oh in that case i'd say you shouldn't assume you're exclusive until you've basically locked in that you're actually dating. i assume most people have a conversation that's something like "hey so we're like boyfriend and girlfriend now right" at that point i'd argue it's pretty clear that you're exclusive, but if you're at that point and also want it to be open then i agree it's on that person to bring it up so i think i do agree with you if that's what you meant, i just don't think you phrased it particularly well

[QUOTE=E = MC Hammer;51190012]communication = good[/QUOTE] And I'm not saying anything that contradicts that? If it comes to your mind that you could discuss exclusivity with your partner then sure, better safe than sorry. I'm saying that most people don't think about it.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51190015]As I just explained, most people don't even know open relationships are a thing and those who do likely won't think about it as a possibility seeing as they're not common. We're not discussing whether or not you should have that discussion with your partner if it comes to mind since it doesn't for the large majority of people.[/QUOTE] Just because you have another opinion doesn't make my point any less valid. I've had the five second exclusivity conversation with every girl I've dated in order to make sure we were both on the same page. If she had said she was seeing someone else or that we weren't exclusive I wouldn't have wasted my time on her and ended it there.

[QUOTE=E = MC Hammer;51190027]oh in that case i'd say you shouldn't assume you're exclusive until you've basically locked in that you're actually dating. i assume most people have a conversation that's something like "hey so we're like boyfriend and girlfriend now right" at that point i'd argue it's pretty clear that you're exclusive, but if you're at that point and also want it to be open then i agree it's on that person to bring it up so i think i do agree with you if that's what you meant, i just don't think you phrased it particularly well[/QUOTE] Yeah that's basically what I meant by: [QUOTE=_Axel;51189867]If you consider her your girlfriend and she considers you her boyfriend and openness was never discussed, then it is implied that the relationship is exclusive.[/QUOTE] So probably not as soon as people begin dating, but once it starts getting serious I think it becomes an implicitly exclusive relationship. [editline]12th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=darksoul69;51190047]Just because you have another opinion doesn't make my point any less valid. I've had the five second exclusivity conversation with every girl I've dated in order to make sure we were both on the same page. If she had said she was seeing someone else or that we weren't exclusive I wouldn't have wasted my time on her and ended it there.[/QUOTE] That's not really an opinion, most people simply don't think about it. Good for you that you take the safe route and I would advise others to do the same, but that doesn't mean people aren't to blame if they go open without consulting their partner about it.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51190062]That's not really an opinion, most people simply don't think about it. Good for you that you take the safe route and I would advise others to do the same, but that doesn't mean people aren't to blame if they go open without consulting their partner about it.[/QUOTE] What if they're open from the beginning or dating someone else. Do you see what I'm getting at? Just because they don't discuss it with you doesn't mean it's not happening which is why the exclusivity conversation is a must in every relationship. It takes five seconds and seals the deal.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51190062]Yeah that's basically what I meant by: So probably not as soon as people begin dating, but once it starts getting serious I think it becomes an implicitly exclusive relationship. [editline]12th October 2016[/editline] That's not really an opinion, most people simply don't think about it. Good for you that you take the safe route and I would advise others to do the same, but that doesn't mean people aren't to blame if they go open without consulting their partner about it.[/QUOTE] I think the big misunderstanding is that you seem to think that "dating" is a clear cut line, which really isn't true. In mine, and many people's mind, going on several dates over a couple months and hooking up from time to time isn't "dating" as you're putting it. Sure, I agree once it hits boyfriend or girlfriend stage it's implied exclusive, but unless both partners are literally saying boyfriend or girlfriend it's not always so clear.

[QUOTE=darksoul69;51190081]What if they're open from the beginning or dating someone else. Do you see what I'm getting at? Just because they don't discuss it with you doesn't mean it's not happening which is why the exclusivity conversation is a must in every relationship. It takes five seconds and seals the deal.[/QUOTE] I never said anything that would contradict that.