Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread. - General

[QUOTE=NoDachiUK;45855248]Sayre's Law: the conflicts surrounding video games are so bitter precisely because the stakes are so low. I mean, just honestly read through this thread and just examine the language used by posters. "It has, but the difference is that they've seemed to have teamed up with and are making money off a group of people with an anti-gaming agenda. In a symbiotic relationship, the game journalism sites are offering these people a stage and make money off their articles, and the anti-gaming people use their 'SJW' networks to organize large coordinated strikes to push their own agenda and silence the opposition. If the clickbait gaming sites from several years ago could be compared to petty thieves and pickpockets, the current scenario pretty much looks like full-on organized crime." you can swap a few words around and make this sound like its talking about a real serious problem. Like a country on the verge of social collapse or revolution. But in the end all this sound and fury is just aimed at bloggers lol.[/QUOTE] Commenting on the tone and going "you care too much" are not real arguments.

[QUOTE=NoDachiUK;45855183]I'm just saying why you care so much? Game journalism is a non-entity. Its not a professional industry - and anyone with a blog can become a game journalist. You can't fight immaturity with immaturity. You just make this all look one like big circus joke from the outside. [editline]31st August 2014[/editline] But why nothing like this about it? Because people have excepted that Celebrity journalism is low-brow entertainment. Much like the gaming industry.[/QUOTE] Why do you care so much that we care so much? If you don't care, kindly fuck off and stop polluting the discussion of people who do care with horribly misrepresentive insults and nonsense. You've actively said you neither care for nor are part of gaming communities, so why does it matter what a group of people think about an issue?

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;45855335]Commenting on the tone and going "you care too much" are not real arguments.[/QUOTE] It's funny because feminists themselves have a name for this. [quote=Geek Feminism]A tone argument is an argument used in discussions, sometimes by Concern trolls and sometimes as a Derailment, in which it is suggested that feminists would be more successful if only they expressed themselves in a more pleasant tone. This is also sometimes described as catching more flies with honey than with vinegar, a particular variant of the tone argument. The tone argument is a form of derailment, or a red herring, because the tone of a statement is independent of the content of the statement in question, and calling attention to it distracts from the issue at hand. Drawing attention to the tone rather than content of a statement can allow other parties to avoid engaging with sound arguments presented in that statement, thus undermining the original party's attempt to communicate and effectively shutting them down.[/quote]

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;45855340]Why do you care so much that we care so much? If you don't care, kindly fuck off and stop polluting the discussion of people who do care with horribly misrepresentive insults and nonsense. You've actively said you neither care for nor are part of gaming communities, so why does it matter what a group of people think about an issue?[/QUOTE] Again, I don't think he should leave. We shouldn't use censorship as a tool to further our beliefs.

Personally, I think that if gaming journalists could step up and have some fucking integrity, it could cause a domino effect amongst other sections of journalism (*coughFoxNewscough*) purely on the basis of "if people take [I]gaming journalism[/I] of all things more seriously than they take us, we must be doing something wrong". Not sure how sound the logic of this is, but it'd be hilarious if that actually happened.

i think its interesting that even though they probably had a worse reputation at the start of all this the more traditional sites like ign and gamespot havnt been mentioned so far, although there doing a pretty good job of ignoring the issue. maybe when your sites owned by a shitty company like gawker standards slip. with gawker taking potshots at vice and Vice's "Fuck You and Fuck Your Garbage Click-Bait 'Journalism,'" responce maybe they will run a piece on this shitshow

[QUOTE=waylander;45855595]i think its interesting that even though they probably had a worse reputation at the start of all this the more traditional sites like ign and gamespot havnt been mentioned so far, although there doing a pretty good job of ignoring the issue. maybe when your sites owned by a shitty company like gawker standards slip. with gawker taking potshots at vice and Vice's "Fuck You and Fuck Your Garbage Click-Bait 'Journalism,'" responce maybe they will run a piece on this shitshow[/QUOTE]Vice has already done a pair of really awful articles that were as bad as the ones that the likes of Kotaku have done.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45855408]Again, I don't think he should leave. We shouldn't use censorship as a tool to further our beliefs.[/QUOTE] I agree with this sentiment but when you have a bully whose dug his feet into the ground, there's really nothing you can do. Especially when's puking red herrings like tonal arguments and 'well I'm using read comphrension and i read a single sentence and i know what you mean lol'. Its like trying to argue with a Chav.

I know I brought this up in the SH thread. But why this event? Why is it this event, and not the hundreds of other examples of corruption that have been brought to light (examples much more damaging might I add) that has caused such a reaction? We have tons of documented examples of AAA devs bribing the big name review sites, the ones that actually matter and effect the developers, consumers and everyone in between them. Buying the reviewers gadgets, taking them to exotic locations for play testing, etc. Why did it take a small-time (in the grand scheme of things) indie dev getting miniature Kotaku dick (was it ever confirmed she slept with them for mentions or good reviews? I don't remember anything confirming it coming up but if anything new came up, then whatever, inform me!) to spur this on? Why did nobody actually do anything when the really damaging shit was going on?

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8LOhGvO.png[/IMG] SJW's everyone

It's funny, almost universally arguments go like this: Pro-Corruption: "Show me the evidence!" Everyone else: *shows evidence* PC: "lol shutup misogynist go back to eatin doritos look at these guys without their evidence." Like, I can kinda get why the 'journalists' get defensive about this. After all, it's their ass on the line and clearly they don't have a shred of professionalism in them, so of course they're gunna act moronic. But everyone else? Why? Why is it that the "pro-zoe" camp are almost universally right without needing evidence, but the other 'side' pretty much need a divine edict from God to prove their information is correct? Are people really this .. well, not stupid, I guess, but just plain ignorant? That they MUST be right and any evidence to the contrary MUST be wrong? Whereas anything they say IS right because THEY said it and they don't need to justify it?? This entire thing is making me extremely pissed off at not just gaming journalism but at the people blindly defending this corruption. They go into threads, tweet shit and then claim to have "done the research". If you go into a thread with a pre-determined thought/opinion, then of course you'll dismiss everything out of hand? When I first heard of this, I thought "hm, interesting, let's see if this develops and if Zoe has anything to say on the matter" and then things just kept mounting up and the journalists kept slinging shit instead of actually doing anything "professional" i.e. writing an apology, accepting responsibility for their actions etc. At this point, they have so much shit to answer for it's probably within their benefit to just keep digging a hole rather than address any of the issues. Sorry if this came off as a rant but having read one too many twitter comments and then that NoDachi guy I felt it needed to be said. TL;DR Read the damn OP, and if you think it's wrong then say why you think that rather than just shitting up the thread, or better yet, [B]provide counter-evidence[/B]

So, from what I heard, all of reddit is now getting censored.

Just watching these SJWs in action makes me want to kill them. Being a fucked up person has been taken to standards never seen before, I cannot fathom that. I mean, just that fucking tweet 3 posts above. How the fuck do these people function in society or even slightly taken seriously?

Oh shit, really?

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;45855731]So, from what I heard, all of reddit is now getting censored.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect[/url] Good for them.

Holy Fuck, I hope they don't show up here and crap. I mean, reddit's cool an all but we'd break facepunch.

There is this discussion here if you are on reddit and want to talk about it there too [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/Gaming4Gamers/comments/2f33q5/the_coin_the_quinspiracy_theory_case/[/url]

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;45855731]So, from what I heard, all of reddit is now getting censored.[/QUOTE] You talkin bout the newest InternetAristocrat video being removed from r/gaming and r/Games? Or is it something else?

[QUOTE=Swilly;45855763]Holy Fuck, I hope they don't show up here and crap. I mean, reddit's cool an all but we'd break facepunch.[/QUOTE] Iunno, there are a lot of people legitimately good and productive on Reddit. Except for 2xchromosomes.

[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;45855795]Iunno, there are a lot of people legitimately good and productive on Reddit. Except for 2xchromosomes.[/QUOTE] Whoever decided to make 2x a default is fucking retarded. They have to be actually brain damaged to not see the shitstorm that would come out of that. And off-topic: is the index for GD not updating for anyone else?

[QUOTE=halflife_123;45855785]There is this discussion here if you are on reddit and want to talk about it there too [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/Gaming4Gamers/comments/2f33q5/the_coin_the_quinspiracy_theory_case/[/url][/QUOTE] Everybody should be directed to Brief History part of that post if somebody asks again about why and how this happened.

[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;45855727]It's funny, almost universally arguments go like this: Pro-Corruption: "Show me the evidence!" Everyone else: *shows evidence* PC: "lol shutup misogynist go back to eatin doritos look at these guys without their evidence." Like, I can kinda get why the 'journalists' get defensive about this. After all, it's their ass on the line and clearly they don't have a shred of professionalism in them, so of course they're gunna act moronic. But everyone else? Why? Why is it that the "pro-zoe" camp are almost universally right without needing evidence, but on the other side they need pretty much a divine edict from God to prove their information is correct? Are people really this .. well, not stupid, I guess, but just plain ignorant? That they MUST be right and any evidence to the contrary MUST be wrong? Whereas anything they say IS right because THEY said it and they don't need to justify it?? This entire thing is making me extremely pissed off at not just gaming journalism but at the people blindly defending this corruption. They go into threads, tweet shit and then claim to have "done the research". If you go into a thread with a pre-determined thought/opinion, then of course you'll dismiss everything out of hand? When I first heard of this, I thought "hm, interesting, let's see if this develops and if Zoe has anything to say on the matter" and then things just kept mounting up and the journalists kept slinging shit instead of actually doing anything "professional" i.e. writing an apology, accepting responsibility for their actions etc. At this point, they have so much shit to answer for it's probably within their benefit to just keep digging a hole rather than address any of the issues. Sorry if this came off as a rant but having read one too many twitter comments and then that NoDachi guy I felt it needed to be said. TL;DR Read the damn OP, and if you think it's wrong then say why you think that rather than just shitting up the thread, or better yet, [B]provide counter-evidence[/B][/QUOTE] It's an actual phenomenom in the human brain, called the [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/arts/people-argue-just-to-win-scholars-assert.html?_r=5&"]Argumentative Theory Of Reasoning[/URL]. The basic gist of it is that humanity evolved arguing as a method to gain authority over others. The point of arguing is to win, not to educate. This also ties into another thing about our brains, it's [URL="http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11009379#.VAOOiGNADbw"]hardwired[/URL] to give you a brief "high" from reading information you agree with. You also get that high by intentionally dismissing information you don't agree with. It's a wonder humanity has gotten anywhere when our brains have trained us to be entrenched in our own ignorance.

[QUOTE=DuCT;45855791]You talkin bout the newest InternetAristocrat video being removed from r/gaming and r/Games? Or is it something else?[/QUOTE] I dunno, I was on the /v/ thread and saw [IMG]http://a.pomf.se/xdszgb.png[/IMG] I really don't really know much about how reddit works or where to even look.

[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;45855753]Just watching these SJWs in action makes me want to kill them. Being a fucked up person has been taken to standards never seen before, I cannot fathom that. I mean, just that fucking tweet 3 posts above. How the fuck do these people function in society or even slightly taken seriously?[/QUOTE] That's nice, internet tough guy. Go outside and take a walk.

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;45855846]I dunno, I was on the /v/ thread and saw [IMG]http://a.pomf.se/xdszgb.png[/IMG] I really don't really know much about how reddit works or where to even look.[/QUOTE] It's not, well sorta, /r/games & /r/gaming has a (site) moderator, whose been blanking deleting everything with Zoe's name in it in addition been handing out shadowbans, however the 5 guys video is still up in /r/videos.

I can kinda see where NoDachi is coming from in so far as why we care so much? Many in these threads have already expressed that their dissatisfaction with the gaming news sites existed before the recent scandal. I haven't visited one on a regular basis in years. I, as well as plenty of others, have found that watching game footage and perusing forums to get the opinion of an "average Joe" to be much more useful. Alternatives to these sites already exist and do a better job of informing the consumer. So why then should anyone want to fix "traditional" games media instead of abandoning them for better alternatives? I understand that they impact sales and therefore what gets made, but I don't feel like their influence is greater than the actual consumer. Access is the only thing I can really think of that these sites have that an average Joe doesn't, but that access seems to more often than not translates to hype pieces before release or "apologies" after. Plus the exclusivity of this access is becoming a thing of the past with things like Twitter, AMAs, etc. The attacks and stereotyping of people who play games is uncalled for, but ultimately it is being done by people I never heard of and whose opinions I don't care about, so I find it hard to really get offended. Discussion is always welcome and it has been interesting to see this whole thing develop. But, I never really felt like I had a horse in this race. I struggle to see the way I consume games really impacted by this scandal in the future.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;45855686]I know I brought this up in the SH thread. But why this event? Why is it this event, and not the hundreds of other examples of corruption that have been brought to light (examples much more damaging might I add) that has caused such a reaction? We have tons of documented examples of AAA devs bribing the big name review sites, the ones that actually matter and effect the developers, consumers and everyone in between them. Buying the reviewers gadgets, taking them to exotic locations for play testing, etc. Why did it take a small-time (in the grand scheme of things) indie dev getting miniature Kotaku dick (was it ever confirmed she slept with them for mentions or good reviews? I don't remember anything confirming it coming up but if anything new came up, then whatever, inform me!) to spur this on? Why did nobody actually do anything when the really damaging shit was going on?[/QUOTE] This is a good question. I honestly don't know but my best guess would be that this was simply the straw that broke the back. I used this comparison before and I'm sorry for how irreverent this may sound but I think parallels can be drawn between this and the Ferguson debacle. Why did it take one simple kid being shot to bring years of racial tensions to a boil? Why did it take one lowly indie dev to bring years of frustration about gaming journalism to a boil? I have no idea. [editline]31st August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=BearsOnFire;45855969]I can kinda see where NoDachi is coming from in so far as why we care so much? Many in these threads have already expressed that their dissatisfaction with the gaming news sites existed before the recent scandal. I haven't visited one on a regular basis in years. I, as well as plenty of others, have found that watching game footage and perusing forums to get the opinion of an "average Joe" to be much more useful. Alternatives to these sites already exist and do a better job of informing the consumer. So why then should anyone want to fix "traditional" games media instead of abandoning them for better alternatives? I understand that they impact sales and therefore what gets made, but I don't feel like their influence is greater than the actual consumer. Access is the only thing I can really think of that these sites have that an average Joe doesn't, but that access seems to more often than not translates to hype pieces before release or "apologies" after. Plus the exclusivity of this access is becoming a thing of the past with things like Twitter, AMAs, etc. The attacks and stereotyping of people who play games is uncalled for, but ultimately it is being done by people I never heard of and whose opinions I don't care about, so I find it hard to really get offended. Discussion is always welcome and it has been interesting to see this whole thing develop. But, I never really felt like I had a horse in this race. I struggle to see the way I consume games really impacted by this scandal in the future.[/QUOTE] The thing is that some of us do care. Their tactic is to disparage us now. We know its bullshit, but does the general public, the soccer mom who cares for her kids, the politicians, do they know? It's a widespread message of hate that they are using against us, and it's aimed at the general public. This could have important implications for the industry, when games are painted as things that only hateful immature sexists play. It could dissuade consumers, artists, and investors.

[QUOTE=BearsOnFire;45855969]Discussion is always welcome and it has been interesting to see this whole thing develop. But, I never really felt like I had a horse in this race. I struggle to see the way I consume games really impacted by this scandal in the future.[/QUOTE] I think part of it comes from how much weight you put on the people who have been exposed because of this mess. I used to read Destructoid exclusively for my gaming news. I used to listen to the Rebel.fm podcast which had a bunch of people on it who would eventually go on to make Polygon. I used to respect Adam Sessler. These were people who I looked to for news and opinions in gaming because I thought they were all really cool, leveled headed people who knew what they were talking about. Now seeing [I]how[/I] they all associate with each other and how they're acting now, it's pretty disgusting seeing their reactions from people who I used to think "This guy is super cool." Now they're calling everyone who dares play a video game disgusting neckbeard misogynists and the term "gamer" is dead and we're all fucking losers and we should be grateful for them telling us this.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45856012]Why did it take one lowly indie dev to bring years of frustration about gaming journalism to a boil? I have no idea.[/QUOTE] Probably because it was expected for the big dogs to be bribing game journalists but no one would really ever expect indie devs to have a big influence on gaming sites.

[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;45855846]I dunno, I was on the /v/ thread and saw [IMG]http://a.pomf.se/xdszgb.png[/IMG] I really don't really know much about how reddit works or where to even look.[/QUOTE] From that same thread [IMG]http://s29.postimg.org/3meu04xc7/itsnotogreyet.png[/IMG]