Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread.
15,084 replies, posted
I feel like I'm going into political correctness area here. Is that good or bad in this context?
[QUOTE=Mecha Pirate;46063433]Thanks.
But how can we really know if that what happens in necessarily because of double standards? It doesn't seem like I can actually prove those double standards exist just by mentioning a few cases that support the narrative I'm trying to convey.
I was trying to find out whether it is the accuser's fault whether the accused is harassed because of the accusation on the internet. It is justifiable to report abuse, but is it okay to report it on the open internet and expect no negative consequences, despite whether the accusations are true or not? I was wondering whether he could have other alternatives to handling his private life.[/QUOTE]
I think I understand, while he may not have done anything particularly wrong in posting it and was not responsible for the harassment, he was aware that she would receive more harassment if he posted it than if he didn't post it.
My best answer is that he was in a tricky spot between a moral obligation to out an abuser while trying to prevent similar things from happening again, and the obvious moral obligation not to cause harassment, to which I would still answer that it is better to out them. He tried his best to make clear that he did not want her harassed and was respectful as best he could meaning he mitigated the harassment and did not have intent to do so. Additionally much of the issue grew from things outside of what he posted such as the twitter abuse and the exposing of industry connections, the responsibility of which relies solely on those who committed the acts.
Just as Zoe herself was just the start to the issue snowballing, the entire responsibility of the harassment does not lie on Eron and in my opinion he did the best he could given the circumstances.
So .. what is a proper and responsible way to report abuse? How do you break the cycle? (I think I am derailing this thread, given it's title.) Is this truly the million dollar question?
I think unless you are explicitly encouraging it or engaging in it, you can't be held responsible for the harassment of someone. Just because Eron gave visibility to ZQ's misdeeds doesn't mean he's responsible for everything that was attempted against her.
[QUOTE=Mecha Pirate;46064058]So .. what is a proper and responsible way to report abuse? How do you break the cycle? (I think I am derailing this thread, given it's title.) Is this truly the million dollar question?[/QUOTE]
There is no golden answer, abuse is fucked up, personally I see no wrong way to bring abuse to light IF its true. But you better have something to back up your claims if you go public or im not gonna take your word 100%. Which Eron has done and something Zoe has not.
Nothing Eron did was wrong in coming out with the abuse. He did not force people to harass Zoe because of his blog.
[QUOTE=_Axel;46064084]I think unless you are explicitly encouraging it or engaging in it, you can't be held responsible for the harassment of someone. Just because Eron gave visibility to ZQ's misdeeds doesn't mean he's responsible for everything that was attempted against her.[/QUOTE]
This. Remember too that ZQ originally framed the Zoe post as "my boyfriend has a 4chan army" in her response post(s). Most people supporting ZQ still believe that, and assumed Eron was building a smear campaign against Zoe. When in reality Eron purposefully avoided 4chan and other sites that were going to use the post as fuel for harassment.
Speaking of which, do you know why the Zoe post originally blew up so fast? SA and Penny Arcade mods freaked out and deleted it. This whole damb thing started because of mods censoring an abuse survivor. The Streisand effect is so very real.
Just the act of outing their abuse is going to damage their reputation in some way, the definition of a Catch-22. While I still think that just knowing your actions will lead to harassment means you have to consider it carefully, it's a tricky situation and inaction isn't the best solution either.
I've long since stopped looking for the perfect method that will have optimal results, we're not perfect and neither are the systems we're working with. You're only responsible for what you can reasonably do and when he did everything he could to help, expecting more is unreasonable.
[url=http://www.twitter.com/congressedits/status/514773839406829568]The Russian Wikipedia article about Kotaku was edited by someone within the US House (or someone that can get access to the House)[/url]. This text was added:
[quote=some guy within the House]Они способствуют Культурный Маркси́зм.[/quote]
Google Translate tells us that it translates into this:
[quote=some guy within the House, translated]They promote cultural Marxism.[/quote]
Basically, the same thing as with the English Wikipedia edit. At least they (whoever it was) knew to translate their stuff first.
Then .. why hadn't he talked with professionals first? If he did, then what did they answer him? I was wondering this because maybe further justification could be provided for posting it on the internet (Which definitely exists, as the lw post not only reports an abuse, but also brings gaming journalism into question - both of which have snowballed and brought to light, the latter overshadowing the former.). Also, had he talked with them later?
Disclaimer: This question may sound like I'm needlessly digging too deep into the merits of the decisions taking place, which some people will view as a double standard towards male abusers - I am not at all implying this.
Also, thanks for making me google what's catch-22. That sounds like something that one should be really aware of.
[QUOTE=Reimu;46064169]This. Remember too that ZQ originally framed the Zoe post as "my boyfriend has a 4chan army" in her response post(s). Most people supporting ZQ still believe that, and assumed Eron was building a smear campaign against Zoe. When in reality Eron purposefully avoided 4chan and other sites that were going to use the post as fuel for harassment.
Speaking of which, do you know why the Zoe post originally blew up so fast? SA and Penny Arcade mods freaked out and deleted it. This whole damb thing started because of mods censoring an abuse survivor. The Streisand effect is so very real.[/QUOTE]
GamerGate is pretty much using the Streisand Effect as fuel. Every time it looks like it might die down someone tries to kill discussion and it flares up again.
[QUOTE=Mecha Pirate;46064058]So .. what is a proper and responsible way to report abuse? How do you break the cycle? (I think I am derailing this thread, given it's title.) Is this truly the million dollar question?[/QUOTE]
Well, for starters he DID the number one most important thing: He got out of the relationship. We don't know if he'll ever repeat this pattern, tho. Also this discussion should move to the thread about reimu's video.
[url=http://www.donotlink.com/kpE]Quality video game journalism by Polygon[/url]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3877425/temp/1411569078809.png[/t]
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3877425/temp/1411569128129.png[/t]
[editline].[/editline]
I realize this is from a couple months back, but this is why video game journalism is a joke
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;46065068]
I realize this is from a couple months back, but this is why video game journalism is a joke[/QUOTE]
It also seems unprofessional to respond to a grammar nazi rather than critique, but I can't blame the guy for that, surely.
Really? They gave Tropico 5 a 6.5 because of political views?
Yeah, you can argue that the game has problematic elements. But it's really fun as hell. Even SRSers play it a lot. And it's highly informative about banana republics, which us something most Americans have no knowledge about. Hell, it's one if those games that really invites people to learn more about Cuban, Bolivian, Argentinian, and South American history.
I'm going to take a wild stab and guess that some white dude wrote this article and thought he'd get brownie points for dissing a rather thoughtful satirical game on dictatorships.
[QUOTE]I didn't invent the tank[/QUOTE]
Well no shit. This isn't Civ 5. This is Tropico. Why would a sparsely populated third world island nation in the middle of the Cold War ever think it would be a good idea to try to design and produce their own line of main battle tanks?
Can't get any more American than "Charlie Hall."
[Quote]was hard for me to get perspective on all the charming quirks of Kim Jong Il, Envar Hoxha and Nicolae Ceaușescu — people who I was imitating in the game — when I knew that they were responsible for the rape, murder and enslavement of many thousands, perhaps even millions of real people. Instead of making me chuckle, Tropico 5 constantly reminded me of all the blood staining my hands.[/quote]
Oh my fucking GOD. That's the whole entire point of the game. You're suppose to realize how fucked up banana republics are and why dictators hold onto power. That's actually one of the reasons why a friend of mine, who is a first generation Cuban feminist from exiled parents, loves this game so much.
The point is flying so far over their heads, they would think SimCity is problematic because oversaturating your police force can lead to police brutality.
[QUOTE=Reimu;46065239]Really? They gave Tropico 5 a 6.5 because of political views?
Yeah, you can argue that the game has problematic elements. But it's really fun as hell. Even SRSers play it a lot. And it's highly informative about banana republics, which us something most Americans have no knowledge about. Hell, it's one if those games that really invites people to learn more about Cuban, Bolivian, Argentinian, and South American history.
I'm going to take a wild stab and guess that some white dude wrote this article and thought he'd get brownie points for dissing a rather thoughtful satirical game on dictatorships.[/QUOTE]
[B]DING DING DING[/B]
We haaaave a winner.
The only games I can think of is I Wanna Be Guy or No Time To Explain. Then again I might have missed the point.
Someone is trying to start #shutdown4chan
[url]https://archive.today/8gEQw[/url]
Destruction of a platform doesn't destroy the voice behind the platform. I don't know why these people think that killing 4chan will solve the worlds problems.
[editline]24th September 2014[/editline]
It seems archive.today broke that page formatting
Original Link: [url]http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/24/6837585/emma-watson-nude-photo-threats-were-hoax-anti-4chan-campaign[/url]
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;46065298]Lets take a game that doesn't even take itself serious seriously.[/QUOTE]
Portal is a very [i]problematic[/i] game for demonstrating the inherent inhumanity of modern human testing practices and attempting to write them off as a joke. Valve Software needs to be educated in how to write a safe, intelligent, absolutely wonderful plot for their games.
#TurnTheValve
Yeah, that #shutdown4chan thing is a hoax designed to bring page views in. A site called FoxWeekly broke the news of it and said it was being done by a company called "Rantic Marketing". FoxWeekly also published a fake story about GTA V for PC being cancelled where they also cited Rantic marketing as their source.
Do these marketers not realize that the anonymity that shields them also shields 4chan?
Also, why blame 4chan for a singular person or group of people would do.
jesus that's really close to something that kotaku would have probably written.
along with the stupid hashtag activism.
[QUOTE=Stents*;46065455][url]https://archive.today/8gEQw[/url]
Destruction of a platform doesn't destroy the voice behind the platform. I don't know why these people think that killing 4chan will solve the worlds problems.
[editline]24th September 2014[/editline]
It seems archive.today broke that page formatting
Original Link: [url]http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/24/6837585/emma-watson-nude-photo-threats-were-hoax-anti-4chan-campaign[/url][/QUOTE]
Why bother with visiting that page from an archive though, it's a quite factual article
i stopped playing tropico 5 because i built a very expensive tobacco factory and no one would work there despite living right next to it with no job, causing my entire town to die from zero profit.
game was fun tho
if anything 4chan would probably be for the he for she campaign because it doesnt treat men like shit.
Thanks you guys for telling me about all how messed up this situation is. It's great that we can have a discussion sensibly because Twitter is a complete warzone atm. When doxxes are this common on both sides I've been cautious about saying anything on the topic and it's sucked seeing a lot of goons I used to follow join in this circlejerk.
Im not sure why but I was very put off by what Emma Watson was saying. I especially didn't like that part where she mentioned that men should be feminists for their children.
I wish I was able to better explain myself.
[editline]24th September 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Purple Gecko;46065746]Thanks you guys for telling me about all how messed up this situation is. It's great that we can have a discussion sensibly because Twitter is a complete warzone atm. When doxxes are this common on both sides I've been cautious about saying anything on the topic and it's sucked seeing a lot of goons I used to follow join in this circlejerk.[/QUOTE]
on both sides? have pro GG people been doxing? I havent seen anything on that. The pro GG people have been very reserved and well behaved throughout this whole ordeal.
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