Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread. - General

[QUOTE=Reimu;46123535]I think this is true, and this is what I personally want to see in a review. Subjectivity is just a hot button issue right now. I think that's what most gamers want and I think that's what GG, as a whole, wants in video gaming. However, that said, I think some (albeit a very small number of) people legitimately don't want subjectivity at all. They just want a technical review of the game that describes what you can do and whether it executes well. Kind of like a "book review" sidebar, which just talks about what the book does and not the reviewer's impression or take.[/QUOTE] That would still be nice to have [I]in addition[/I] to the normal stuff. Just some technical data like frame rate, true resolution, whether it stutters on consoles, if the PC version has configurable controls and UI (and if yes how flexibly), if there are accessibility features like true closed captions or a colour-blindness mode, things like that. Actually there was this brochure thing I read, about accessibility features and motivations behind them... [URL="http://includification.com/AbleGamers_Includification.pdf"]Here it is.[/URL] [URL="http://includification.com/"]The main site[/URL] has the whole thing as web pages. A lot of these features are something I'd like to see too, despite not having any significant disabilities in the areas affecting gameplay. I really don't want games on PC with UI as atrocious as Skyrim's default for example. I'm really glad that got fixed by modders before I picked up the game. [editline]1st October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Reimu;46123726][...] But some people legitimately want a barebones description of the game and gameplay, not unlike the synopsis sections on Wikipedia. In fact, I would say a lot of people use Wikipedia as a resource to decide on whether they should buy/play a video game.[/QUOTE] I avoid Wikipedia for films and games because it's full of unmarked spoilers. TV Tropes fills the need perfectly though, the summaries are to the point and spoiler-free and the trope list usually tells me whether I'd like it thematically and stylistically. [editline]1st October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=27X;46125047]Nope. While there were super rabid sanius and anitsanius groups arguing pro and con, all you have to is go back a couple of years and voila a rather sudden and obvious shift into white knighting and clickbait articles. People wanted RPS gone because the signs they were bought and paid are cartoonishly obvious, pretty much the same thing that happened to the supposedly hard core and tough as nails eurogamer, a rag which literally folded into payola after one article got 86'd, as opposed to RPS's more gradual slide into hysterical over-reporting. This isn't just about SJW insulation and social engineering, it's also about a concerted effort of collusion and nepotism that's been going for far longer then "since 2009". Gaming journalism as an industry/platform has been broken for a long time, and the social engineering attempt is simply the breakout issue. I've been thinking of putting up a video, probably will, considering how clueless most people seem to be on exactly how pervasive this has been and for how long. It's more resemblant of political journalism of the 1920's than it is of journalism of the 2020's.[/QUOTE] Oh. I thought The Disappearance of Rock, Paper, Shotgun was a more recent event.

Prepare to laugh and or cry [url]https://archive.today/XpO7f[/url]

[QUOTE=Thlis;46125478]Prepare to laugh and or cry [URL]https://archive.today/XpO7f[/URL][/QUOTE] this is the best form of idiocy in video game journalism

[QUOTE=Raidyr;46125301]Examples? I didn't pick up on that at all.[/QUOTE] Pretty much the first post of that thread that refered to some "MRA" bullshit or that other comment that implied people still cannot handle homosexual themas in games (even if gays absolutely hate that kind of pandering though).

[QUOTE=Thlis;46125478]Prepare to laugh and or cry [url]https://archive.today/XpO7f[/url][/QUOTE] Holy. Fuck. I saw someone complaining about this on Twitter and had no idea what they were talking about and now I wish I didn't know. The amount of brainpower wasted on typing that it's extraordinary.

in other SJW semi-offtopic news, CDProjekt decided to hire Chris Priestly (Of [URL="http://pressstarttobegin.org/2013/07/04/farewell-to-chris-priestly/"]Bioware forum infamy[/URL]) for community manager of CDProjekt NA. [URL]https://twitter.com/TheEvilChris/status/517346868205199360[/URL] they have been tainted, lets hope that he doesn't touch jack shit.

[QUOTE=Wii60;46125632]in other SJW semi-offtopic news, CDProjekt decided to hire Chris Priestly (Of [URL="http://pressstarttobegin.org/2013/07/04/farewell-to-chris-priestly/"]Bioware forum infamy[/URL]) for community manager of CDProjekt NA. [URL]https://twitter.com/TheEvilChris/status/517346868205199360[/URL] they have been tainted, lets hope that he doesn't touch jack shit.[/QUOTE] Right now hoping they just don't know his previous history.

[QUOTE=ADT;46125554]Pretty much the first post of that thread that refered to some "MRA" bullshit or that other comment that implied people still cannot handle homosexual themas in games (even if gays absolutely hate that kind of pandering though).[/QUOTE] Neither one of those comments has anything to do with misogyny though. [editline]1st October 2014[/editline] The thread is three clicks away. You don't have to say "Pretty much" and use words like "implied". You could just go quote relevant posts and post them here.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46123665]Well an objective review would basically be: That's very rough, but that's literally an objective review. Most people don't want that, but not all. There's a reason why book review descriptions are still published in magazines - some people literally want a summary. Just a little description of what happens and what you can do.[/QUOTE] My issue with subjectivity is they throw it around like its a catch all. Subjectivity exists for a reason as does objectivity. But every argument I've seen about it has thrown objectivity out the window like it doesn't belong. It does belong. Subjectivity will always be there but its the job of objectivity to put in terms and in words that brings out a larger critique that can be used during a critical analysis. Much like the several books on the meaning behind the X-Files, none of that would be possible if there weren't objective reviews as a basis by which to expand upon. You can't just throw your feelings in and call it a review which is what a large sum of videogames reviewers do. We have the tools to create objective reviews about music, art and books and we also have the history needed for the gameplay. Videogames combine all of that together so its not difficult to actually review a game where you balance subjective and objective. What I'm sick and tired of is the constant throwing aside objective because 'its impossible' or 'doesn't work'. Both of which are defeatist attitudes and attempt to shift blame from themselves(the reviewers in this case) over to someone else, most notably as of recently, the public.

[QUOTE=Swilly;46125822] But every argument I've seen about it has thrown objectivity out the window like it doesn't belong. It does belong.[/QUOTE] Nobody has actually made this argument in that other thread. Opinions differ between what I see as a 50/50 split and Zekes 99% figure but no one has said there is no objectivity to be had in game design. In fact Zeke and I go out of our way to explicitly give examples of it. You make long posts but I sometimes have trouble understanding who exactly they're aimed at.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;46125751]Neither one of those comments has anything to do with misogyny though. [editline]1st October 2014[/editline] The thread is three clicks away. You don't have to say "Pretty much" and use words like "implied". You could just go quote relevant posts and post them here.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=asteroidrules;46083674]And cue the whiny MRAs.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=asteroidrules;46083777]What do MRAs have to do with men's rights? They just bitch about women, and I have yet to see this game mentioned without that happening.[/QUOTE] But thats pretty much just shitposting tbh,

[QUOTE=Null-11 Ordo;46125890]But thats pretty much just shitposting tbh,[/QUOTE] The second post is about as close as it gets to what HumanAbyss described and one post out of 114 doesn't represent a trend.

Just pointing out the ones I thought he was talking about. Still reading through that thread atm.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;46125751]Neither one of those comments has anything to do with misogyny though.[/QUOTE] Funny thing is that I've been called a men's rights activist once on the Internet because I told some people to stop being so butthurt over some designs of fictional characters. It is used as an insult and label to silence people outside of that ridiculous "no fun allowed" cult.

[QUOTE=ADT;46126047]Funny thing is that I've been called a men's rights activist once on the Internet because I told some people to stop being so butthurt over some designs of fictional characters. It is used as an insult and label to silence people outside of that ridiculous "no fun allowed" cult.[/QUOTE] You can't put in boob plate because it's not realistic and historical realism isn't an excuse for the Witcher 2's rampant sexism. Obviously we need a new meta-realism, maybe a quantom realism.

I have been ignoring this issue right up until today and all I can say is that I don't think I understand it, despite reading about it all day. Seems everyone has a slightly different agenda.

[QUOTE=The DooD;46126389]I have been ignoring this issue right up until today and all I can say is that I don't think I understand it, despite reading about it all day. Seems everyone has a slightly different agenda.[/QUOTE] Here's a VERY basic summary of GamerGate (GG for short), although this issue's been going on since mid-August so it's gonna be long anyways: Games journalism has a shitload of corruption, nepotism and all-around stupidity going on behind the curtain, and it's come into full view recently, rather than being half-believed and joked about by gamers. It all initially came to light due to Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend outing her for cheating on him with five other guys. These guys were tied to gaming journalism, which spurred various people to do some digging on these people. What they've found has been an endless rollercoaster of shady bullshit and lies, driven further into insanity by the responses of the other side. Journalists directly funding and having sex with game devs despite writing supposedly-objective reviews on games with no disclosure of these activities, game devs having their games funded on loan system and winning awards at contests owned by the lenders by default in order to pay back said loans, enforcement of insane and asinine agendas due to money and sexual favors, and so on. The response of the anti-GG side is where the real absurdity is, though. Initially, major gaming news sites tried to hide and deny all of these ties and bundles of evidence proving corruption going on. Then, they started trying to slander gamers as a whole, with claims that the movement is all about kicking Zoe Quinn while she's down and the historic "gamers are dead" article tsunami. As of right now, the GG movement is actually about finding and exposing more corruption among devs/journos, as well as getting major advertisers and publishers to pull their campaigns from various gaming news sites. All of this started out as a simple laugh at Zoe Quinn being a crappy person, but she quickly fell out of importance once it was clear that she was just a bit player in this massive web of corruption. News sites and journos are still trying their damnedest to claim it's a big social justice issue, stating that all gamers are fat, white and straight neckbeards who want women completely out of gaming, and getting Zoe Quinn to write articles and play the pity card as hard as possible. This absurd claim is where #notyourshield came from, since a lot of supporters of GG are actually minorities, women and homosexuals/transgender people, and rightly despise being used as a shield by SJWs. Still, SJWs and journos are trying to paint the whole issue as a misogynist shitfit, because they have no other method of fighting the corruption exposures. At the moment, it's safe to say that the pro-GG side is doing good. Intel just pulled its advertising campaign from Gamasutra, one of the corrupt gaming news websites, which is a massive achievement all things considered.

[snip, late]

Leigh "Hood Men" Alexander butthurt over intel not supporting gamasutra [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2DvjxyT.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/zhzmphj.png[/IMG] [editline]1st October 2014[/editline] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/cYiMOZ4.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hbyzYkz.png[/IMG] [editline]1st October 2014[/editline] the butthurt continues to echo [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/zWsIdXB.png[/IMG]

"I'm like a JRPG Bos-" OK I cant stop laughing at this, seriously what? Are they 9? Or god forbid trying to be hip with thy kiddies Edit: [QUOTE=Wii60;46127417]Running with Scissors (Postal devs) supports GG also you can buy postal 2 for 1.99 on humble bundle (gives steam key). [URL]http://runningwithscissors.com/main/index.php?topic=2028.msg23651#msg23651[/URL][/QUOTE] Hell yeah! Why would they not?

"taking down bad editorial websites hurts devs" how?

Running with Scissors (Postal devs) supports GG also you can buy postal 2 for 1.99 on humble bundle (gives steam key). [URL]http://runningwithscissors.com/main/index.php?topic=2028.msg23651#msg23651[/URL]

Again, how is she not fired by this point? Hell how is her and her boyfriend not both outed out of the company? She's done a shitty job at community management and terrible PR, while her boyfriend is the one that vouched for her.

[thumb]http://i.imgur.com/o2T5Vml.png[/thumb] W-what how does this make any sense at all

[QUOTE=Smt;46127659][thumb]http://i.imgur.com/o2T5Vml.png[/thumb] W-what how does this make any sense at all[/QUOTE] Because any decision made in a patriarchal society is a direct assault on women.

[QUOTE=Smt;46127659][thumb]http://i.imgur.com/o2T5Vml.png[/thumb] W-what how does this make any sense at all[/QUOTE] Some funny things to point out about this: 1.) Gamers actually stopped using gamasutra as a sign of political protest. Whereas, these people are still using Intel products and buying Intel products, despite the fact that Intel "oppose[s] women working in games, women writing about games, women playing games." 2.) I'm pretty confident that none of these antiGGers would last very long if they were asked to boycott Intel. Online activists are notorious for having very low self-discipline, that's one of the reasons why they don't even [i]show up to activist projects in real life[/i] All talk, no bite. The hypocrisy is going to be hilarious as more companies follow suit.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46127803]Some funny things to point out about this: 1.) Gamers actually stopped using gamasutra as a sign of political protest. Whereas, these people are still using Intel products and buying Intel products, despite the fact that Intel "oppose[s] women working in games, women writing about games, women playing games." 2.) I'm pretty confident that none of these antiGGers would last very long if they were asked to boycott Intel. Online activists are notorious for having very low self-discipline, that's one of the reasons why they don't even [i]show up to activist projects in real life[/i] All talk, no bite. The hypocrisy is going to be hilarious as more companies follow suit.[/QUOTE] it's also just a generally silly thing for someone to say about a company [url=http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/bios]who has a woman in every step of the senior management[/url] (inc. president)

[QUOTE=Smt;46127840]it's also just a generally silly thing for someone to say about a company [url=http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/bios]who has a woman in every step of the senior management[/url] (inc. president)[/QUOTE] Yeah, compared to companies like IBM, they are actually quite inclusive and progressive. Which should be a sign that Intel is making this decision for something other than soggy knees.

[video=youtube;rB5Nf8EBOpQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB5Nf8EBOpQ[/video] Looks like the cat's out of the bag.

Leigh Alexander just did an article about an LP she's doing for an old 80s video game. She decides to omit the 3rd dev on the game, a transgender woman programmer. Just sticks with the two cisgender devs instead: [url]http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/10/01/lo-fi-lets-play-tass-times-in-tonetown/[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tass_Times_in_Tonetown[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_Heineman[/url] C'mon Leigh, for fuck's sake.