Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread. - General

I HAVE noted some pro-GGers trolling the anti-GGers however. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/66KAQiO.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XC0gEQd.png[/IMG] There has been a lot of taunting on the pro-GG. I wouldn't say we've gone further than that however. Some people would find that offensive, but the taunts aren't necessarily insults. I like how a lot of people had stereotyped anti-GGers as being the mac user types. I guess that goes with the hipster stance that they seem to show.

[QUOTE=EmperorVagak;46129645][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XC0gEQd.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] And now pro-GG people are hacking computers.

[QUOTE=EmperorVagak;46129645]I HAVE noted some pro-GGers trolling the anti-GGers however. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/66KAQiO.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XC0gEQd.png[/IMG] There has been a lot of taunting on the pro-GG. I wouldn't say we've gone further than that however. Some people would find that offensive, but the taunts aren't necessarily insults. I like how a lot of people had stereotyped anti-GGers as being the mac user types. I guess that goes with the hipster stance that they seem to show.[/QUOTE] Apple products are white by default, therefore, they are white normative playthings of the oppressor.

[QUOTE=Wii60;46129636]people tend to forget one of the most important rules in the internet pics or it didn't happen.[/QUOTE] You'd think such a veteran of the net would grasp that basic concept. [editline]2nd October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=KillerJaguar;46129724]And now pro-GG people are hacking computers.[/QUOTE] I seriously cannot tell if you are trying to be funny here, genuinely this ignorant, or flat out shitposting.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;46129835]I seriously cannot tell if you are trying to be funny here, genuinely this ignorant, or flat out shitposting.[/QUOTE] Can't take a joke

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;46129864]Can't take a joke[/QUOTE] Considering your overall tone in this thread, I think it's fairly reasonable to be uncertain.

[QUOTE=Thlis;46128497]Jim -I'll take the piss out of big game companies, and small terrible indie developers with no voice, but completely steer clear of any difficult topics- Sterling. I will never be able to take another one of his videos seriously again. For all his apparent bluster and rage the moment a difficult issue comes up he is a meek mouse.[/QUOTE] Sucks too, used to like Jim a lot before this whole thing, but his behavior on this topic makes him irredeemable in my eyes.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pAg9xFr.png[/IMG] this is a guy who wrote a [URL="http://www.fangamer.com/products/super-mario-bros-3-brick-by-brick"]book about super mario bros 3[/URL]. edit: CNET News Writer Nick Statt gone apeshit on Pro-GG people, telling people to go fuck themselves and everything [URL]https://twitter.com/nickstatt[/URL] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PfMzQzk.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qv3ApRo.png[/IMG]

I am still confused about the whole left right argument being put into everything.

[QUOTE=JesseR92;46130023]I am still confused about the whole left right argument being put into everything.[/QUOTE] hey theres a few people on the pro-gg side who have a right wing bias, this whole movement must be right wing propaganda!!! edit by the way about nick statt this is part of the CBS business conduct handbook [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/By7aICkIgAA6exf.jpg:large[/IMG]

[QUOTE=JesseR92;46130023]I am still confused about the whole left right argument being put into everything.[/QUOTE] Anything that has to do with a large group of people is eventually gonna have politics dragged into it.

[QUOTE=Wii60;46129636]people tend to forget one of the most important rules in the internet pics or it didn't happen.[/QUOTE] That's victim blaming. Never doubt the victim.

I kinda wish Yahtzee Croshaw stepped in and spoke in on this. He seems like he'd be against it or apathetic then again he's besties with Jim Sterling so he's probably quiet

Calling GG a harassment campaign is the same as calling anonymous "a hacker". And yet people still do that.

Anyone wanna explain what the purpose of gamergate is? I will believe there is some good to come of this when I see it, so please explain its purpose. I also happen to believe in social justice, and if the purpose is to "get politics out of our games" you can save your breath because they are there regardless. In a context of opinions you can't not have politics. Also, I might have bought into this dumb campaign if not every good and interesting writer was opposed to it with usually very good explanations why (even if they say some unwise hyperbole every ten days that gets framed above the stove top in the livingrooms of all angry nerds)

[QUOTE=meazum;46130506]Anyone wanna explain what the purpose of gamergate is? I will believe there is some good to come of this when I see it, so please explain its purpose. I also happen to believe in social justice, and if the purpose is to "get politics out of our games" you can save your breath because they are there regardless. In a context of opinions you can't not have politics. Also, I might have bought into this dumb campaign if not every good and interesting writer was opposed to it with usually very good explanations why (even if they say some unwise hyperbole every ten days that gets framed above the stove top in the livingrooms of all angry nerds)[/QUOTE] The only thing there is to say to you is to actually read the thread, and look at some of the videos posted herein. You plainly have zero idea of what we actually want.

[QUOTE=Wii60;46130028]hey theres a few people on the pro-gg side who have a right wing bias, this whole movement must be right wing propaganda!!! edit by the way about nick statt this is part of the CBS business conduct handbook [IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/By7aICkIgAA6exf.jpg:large[/IMG][/QUOTE] Send screencaps of his tweets to CBS, I don't think that they would take kindly to what he is doing.

Thanks that is very helpful, I've watched a bunch of videos and shit on this, but I'm still not sure if it's a personal thing about zoe being a manipulator, or if there is some campaign about secret flows of money between developers and the press, or if it's about problems with journalistic ethics. Because the ethics question is not especially straightforward or easily explored, and the money question is pretty much nothing, as far as I have seen? EDIT: please don't do organised campaigns to take people down, it will reflect very poorly on all of you.

[QUOTE=meazum;46130556] EDIT: please don't do organised campaigns to take people down, it will reflect very poorly on all of you.[/QUOTE] if that's the only idea you got out of reading this thread there is little hope for us to inform you any better

I really wish you would say something more than varieties of "you wouldn't get it" because I'm not sure why I wouldn't. Zoe being a big ol' meanie to people personally odesn't equate her to being some kind of masterful victim who controls the games press. Even if a gater tells me it's Blatantly Obvious, as long as it's an assumption, it's not.

[QUOTE=meazum;46130633]I really wish you would say something more than varieties of "you wouldn't get it" because I'm not sure why I wouldn't. Zoe being a big ol' meanie to people personally odesn't equate her to being some kind of masterful victim who controls the games press. Even if a gater tells me it's Blatantly Obvious, as long as it's an assumption, it's not.[/QUOTE] [url]http://imgur.com/qJetJIQ[/url] this is the image that helped me quickly understand a lot of the stuff I didn't know before, but generally I don't think someone can say "oh GG is this" because it's just not something that's broken down into simple little bits other than the overarching push for transparency in games journalism, but either way that image is a good general explanation I guess

[QUOTE=meazum;46130556]Thanks that is very helpful, I've watched a bunch of videos and shit on this, but I'm still not sure if it's a personal thing about zoe being a manipulator, or if there is some campaign about secret flows of money between developers and the press, or if it's about problems with journalistic ethics. Because the ethics question is not especially straightforward or easily explored, and the money question is pretty much nothing, as far as I have seen? EDIT: please don't do organised campaigns to take people down, it will reflect very poorly on all of you.[/QUOTE] Alright, here's my personal experience of gamergate. When the zoe blogpost aired I didn't really care too much about her. I knew of her because Jim Sterling did talk about her and the supposed harassment she received a few months ago. Then, a few days later, after Anita received threats (against for something most people DO not care about) within 24 hours there were one or two dozens of articles by people all practically saying "gamers are dead". Which I found to be pretty ridiculous since anyone who plays video games is a gamer. Anyone. Your 6 year old brother who plays Pokemon is a gamer, your aunt who plays Doodle Jump on her iPhone is a gamer. Anyone. Then I go on twitter to see people whose target audience are supposed to be gamers, who effectively cater to gamers since they consider themselves video game journalists, to leash out against us. Not against the people who were actually harassing but gamers in general. Some of the statements ranged from "manchildren" to "angry nerds". You don't even have to look at all what has been revealed, the responses I see are enough. I'm amazed by the fact that people like Leigh Alexander or Anthony Burch are still standing, not because I want them "to be silenced" but because of how much shit they're flinging right now. They're on the same level as 4chan and that's fucking pathetic. And the fact that we can't have a discussion right now just adds fuel to the fire. TotalBiscuit tried to host a discussion. But as soon as the Breitbart article about the google journo group got online all those people jumped the boat. I remember one of the guys who was involved saying something like "We always disclosed that a group like this exists, there is nothing special about it." Right. Again, this is my personal impression, this is what comes first to my mind if someone asks me about GamerGate. A lot of people being dicks online, but also "professionals" who should fucking know better.

This is not about Zoe. Not anymore. The events concerning her were only a spark. Everything else is chewed through in this thread more times than you could imagine. "A bunch of vids" ain't going to cut it. At this point it's far beyond what anyone could explain without collecting and presenting all the evidence, which would be a wall of text stretching from here to the next bus stop, let alone take busloads of time. While I think we'd all wish to have a comprehensive list of everything we've accumulate so far, with regular and fast updates, it this moment in time it's probably best to leave it at "educate yourself". I can give you a short summary though. [sp]We are all misogynists that want to destroy all women with the power of our nerd-rage and male-gaze. Zoe is a woman, so we automatically hate her. And all those male guys in this are secretly female, but we saw through their disguise. We seek to bring totalitarian capitalist utopia to suppress the gay and the female[/sp]

The debacle on The Fine Young Capitalists is very strange, because neither side (Zoe and TFYC) seems to know how a lot of the stuff happened. The statement that Zoe doxxed them got recalled by the TFYC people. The point about the press talking about and influencing the game development scene, that's what all journalists will always do, talking about how great Dark Souls II is because of its sword mechanics, is also to some extent an 'agenda', it's all about the content or ideas surrounding specific games or their developers, what Leigh Alexander and John Bain want out of games are different things, and that means leigh will say some stuff about how guns are bad, and john some stuff about how Gone Home is a non-game. I don't love Kotaku or anything, but I follow the people whose tastes I believe in, and this time it happens to not be Totalbiscuit, Jontron or Boogie, but some other people instead. In editorials and reviews the taste is the central conceit, I know TB doesn't call his stuff reviews, but they pretty much are. You can't have objectivity and a personal assessment in the same review. Same with editorials, it matters who writes them and it always will.

[QUOTE=meazum;46130738] I don't love Kotaku or anything, but I follow the people whose tastes I believe in, and this time it happens to not be Totalbiscuit, Jontron or Boogie, but some other people instead. In editorials and reviews the taste is the central conceit, I know TB doesn't call his stuff reviews, but they pretty much are. You can't have objectivity and a personal assessment in the same review. Same with editorials, it matters who writes them and it always will.[/QUOTE] That's understood, if character and opinion of a particular person wasn't valued, there would be no famous personalities, everyone would be interchangeable. And there's no going over opinion too. But if a reviewer or a reporter (or an editorial specialist in some cases) drinks beer with subjects of his/her professional interest every other Friday, that's a breach of professional ethics. If a reviewer or a reporter (or an editorial specialist in some cases) gives money to support subjects of his/her professional interest, - that would be monetary investment - that's a breach of professional ethics. If a reviewer or a reporter, or a media piece as a whole, much less people who were spotted doing all of the above, merrily proclaims and proceeds to celebrate the 'death' of his/her target demographic and no one has any problems with it, that's not only breach of professional ethics, it's criminal stupidity if there ever was one. While you might say "well that happened and will continue to happen regardless" - yes. So will violent crime. Doesn't mean people shouldn't try and fight it.

I don't mean to defend anybody who has breached their contract of ethics here. When we have a community as small as the games community is, with the interconnectivity of the internet, I assume it would be very difficult for people to not make new friends and acquaintances within that sphere. I guess that is why people are more willing to trust youtubers in this case, as they are self made journalists who never were exposed to the professional sphere before getting their audience, so they exist in their own separate space. For me, I assume it has helped to view the games media as enthusiast press rather than professional journalism, because all the people writing about these games play them and love them the same way every one of their readers do, but it has always been that way, as it started out with a fringe interest where the magazines wrote out of excitement about how amazingly cool the new monster or gun or breast physics were going to be, which is sad in its own way. I guess when it grew out of that and the press started talking about Bobby Kotick and Tim Schafer, we started getting something that more closely resembled professional journalistic reporting, but I don't know if we ever were there. It's important to keep in mind that journalists have always had relationships, professional and unprofessional, which affect their writing to various degrees, it's only human. I just think the circle gets much tighter in a nerd space with much more connectivity.

[QUOTE=Wii60;46128419]it is impossible to boycott intel. literally anything these days involves intel. Tablets/Phones/Laptops/Computer/etc. [editline]1st October 2014[/editline] by the way here's jim sterling saying something stupid. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2PuSyDY.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] To be honest those last two tweets are very agreeable. First tweet is kinda dumb.

I suppose I actually mean the games community as in the people who are interested beyond wanting a trailer to build hype and a metacritic score to justify a purchase. It is a large entertainment business for sure, but with an audience largely akin to that of Mark Wahlberg or marvel films. (gotta love marky mark though)

[QUOTE=Dermock;46130932]To be honest those last two tweets are very agreeable. First tweet is kinda dumb.[/QUOTE] I've only known about the quote since Totalbiscuit used it but "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" is a very good thing to live by, Jim is so on the edge for me, sometimes I'm 100% with him and sometimes his tweets just make me eeeh

[QUOTE=Wii60;46125632]in other SJW semi-offtopic news, CDProjekt decided to hire Chris Priestly (Of [URL="http://pressstarttobegin.org/2013/07/04/farewell-to-chris-priestly/"]Bioware forum infamy[/URL]) for community manager of CDProjekt NA. [URL]https://twitter.com/TheEvilChris/status/517346868205199360[/URL] they have been tainted, lets hope that he doesn't touch jack shit.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't worry too much, CD Projekt is easily one of the companies closest to what the consumers want. If he starts doing shady things they are very likely to listen, I think.