Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread. - General

[QUOTE=Wootman;46177524]Get off of Zoe already she doesn't matter anymore at all.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=TheJoey;46177732]targeting zoe really does serve as great ammo for the opposing side[/QUOTE] First off, I'm not associated with GG at all. I officially cut ties from GG a week or two ago, and will gladly and vocally talk about that if people really want me to. And, to be quite honest, I find this issue 100x more important than GG. We're looking at an ongoing issue of abuse enabling that happens in pretty much the whole entire social justice community and video game industry. This has been an ongoing issue in the former for several decades, and the latter for the past 7 - 10. Either way, what I'm doing has nothing to do with GG. The Zoe Quinn issue is something that has ramifications outside of gaming. It's not a coincidence that a non-gaming feminist publication published my twitlong.

[QUOTE=Wii60;46176178]8chan /gg/ has a thread on this and instead of talking about the content they derailed into a trigger warning discussion because of your intro :v: [url]https://8chan.co/gg/res/64472.html[/url][/QUOTE] To be honest, my eyes rolled back into my head when I saw that 'trigger warning' box. If I may put: Reimu, while I adore what you've done and agree that abuse is bad, I must respectfully disagree on the usage of such 'trigger warnings.' I find it incredibly insulting to actual PTSD victims that many of these (if I may call them) 'special snowflakes' claim to need trigger warnings on a website when reading about something that merely gets them a bit mad. I have more than a few people in my family who've been in the army and have had to face off with the consequences of it, including my father, and I can tell you right now not a god damn one of them gets 'triggered' by some website article. This is a little derailing to the threads purpose, but I think it needs to be said. I really think there needs to be a discussion about this topic at some point, but not right now obviously; there are much bigger fish to fry at the moment (GamerGate).

trigger warnings are ok as long as it doesnt effect anything major imo. PTSD is a major problem. but i think we already have those. it's like a ESRB rating or a MPAA rating. the problem come in when people are "triggered" by the absolute dumbest fucking things like meat or some shit and want to slap it on the box. i mean i wonder how people like that can even go outside.

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;46179508]To be honest, my eyes rolled back into my head when I saw that 'trigger warning' box. If I may put: Reimu, while I adore what you've done and agree that abuse is bad, I must respectfully disagree on the usage of such 'trigger warnings.' I find it incredibly insulting to actual PTSD victims that many of these (if I may call them) 'special snowflakes' claim to need trigger warnings on a website when reading about something that merely gets them a bit mad. I have more than a few people in my family who've been in the army and have had to face off with the consequences of it, including my father, and I can tell you right now not a god damn one of them gets 'triggered' by some website article.[/QUOTE] I don't think the triggers are targeted at those that have been in the army, but for those who have gone through heavy emotional abuse. I'm not really an expert on this, but I imagine victims of abuse like that can have PTSD too, so having trigger warnings is understandable to me. Otherwise, I think TW are pretty silly.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46179413]First off, I'm not associated with GG at all. I officially cut ties from GG a week or two ago, and will gladly and vocally talk about that if people really want me to. And, to be quite honest, I find this issue 100x more important than GG. We're looking at an ongoing issue of abuse enabling that happens in pretty much the whole entire social justice community and video game industry. This has been an ongoing issue in the former for several decades, and the latter for the past 7 - 10. Either way, what I'm doing has nothing to do with GG. The Zoe Quinn issue is something that has ramifications outside of gaming. It's not a coincidence that a non-gaming feminist publication published my twitlong.[/QUOTE] Ive respected a lot that you have done but remember that most in this thread are not fighting your battle and neither is #GG. It is very important to showcase this very obvious absuserm but its also important to remember that a lot have completely pushed Zoe out of the picture. Someone like her should face the consequences but also respected when accepting help, its just I havent seen much of the latter and ultimately at this point Zoe is an entire new battle, I can agree ultimately its more important than gaming journalisim corruption as she does perpetuate this type of really shitty abuse thats a huge life issue far more important than any video game, but its still not a part of #GG ultimately. Id also just say I do disagree with your views on TW mainly because I do not think that is the responsibility of the creator, only those who view whatever is made. Only "trigger warnings" I agree with are honestly the epilepsy ones, that could straight out kill you, otherwise its really the individual affected who shouldnt be pampered to, I dont think its fair to make creators put a warning on what they make. doesnt mean I think your a fuck, id rather disagree and agree with someone than circlejerk agreement.

Don't get me wrong - I don't expect everyone to want to focus on ZQ anymore! I respect that, and see this entire thing separate from GG. But the first quote was someone telling me NOT to focus on ZQ anymore because she "doesn't matter anymore," which is very far from the truth. In the confines of GG, sure. But not in the confines of my own personal work etc.

Okay, off the Trigger Warnings. That's a different topic for a different day.

Also, I saw you're having issues on tumblr Reimu. FUCK AUTOMERGE.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/p4M3qDZ.png[/IMG] [editline]8th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Swilly;46179749]Also, I saw you're having issues on tumblr Reimu. FUCK AUTOMERGE.[/QUOTE] i saw your having problems on facepunch

Do you mean technical and emotional? Because both are spinning around my head like the social twister that is your first highschool dance.

moviebob finally made a video about his stupid opinion it's a episode in part of some series, so the beginning isnt going to make much sense. [video=youtube;uh4aOe9CUnI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh4aOe9CUnI[/video]

[QUOTE=Reimu;46179744]Don't get me wrong - I don't expect everyone to want to focus on ZQ anymore! I respect that, and see this entire thing separate from GG. But the first quote was someone telling me NOT to focus on ZQ anymore because she "doesn't matter anymore," which is very far from the truth. In the confines of GG, sure. But not in the confines of my own personal work etc.[/QUOTE] It doesn't help separate the two when you talk about her in the GG thread. [editline]8th October 2014[/editline] You're kind of in a weird situation where people will only care about her abuse within the context of GG. Without that, it gets very little attention. The two threads in the videos section are evidence of that considering how short-lived they were.

for those who want a recap of the last 3 days [video=youtube;V7-zANRwnLw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7-zANRwnLw[/video]

[QUOTE=Wii60;46179774]moviebob finally made a video about his stupid opinion it's a episode in part of some series, so the beginning isnt going to make much sense. [video=youtube;uh4aOe9CUnI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh4aOe9CUnI[/video][/QUOTE] Literally none of it made sense. (And the production was ass.) [editline]8th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=KillerJaguar;46179780] You're kind of in a weird situation where people will only care about her abuse within the context of GG. Without that, it gets very little attention. The two threads in the videos section are evidence of that considering how short-lived they were.[/QUOTE] Thing is, I've been posting that shit where ever I can, including tumblr which isn't...much but its something. I've also been pointing friends who've been asking about ZQ and GG toward those videos as well as the 60 second recap.

[QUOTE=Wii60;46179774]moviebob finally made a video about his stupid opinion it's a episode in part of some series, so the beginning isnt going to make much sense. [video=youtube;uh4aOe9CUnI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh4aOe9CUnI[/video][/QUOTE] Moviebob is really strange in that both his opinions and his videos have gotten worse and worse since he started. He stopped being agreeable somewhere around video 15 and by video 30 he was saying bullshit like there being nothing wrong with Other M.

Movieblob might be the most cringey person I've seen, he's like if Dobson and CWC were blended together into some scary gelatinous creature

slate continues to be spreading the truth [url]http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/10/twitter_is_broken_gamergate_proves_it.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Wii60;46180127]slate continues to be spreading the truth [url]http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/10/twitter_is_broken_gamergate_proves_it.html[/url][/QUOTE] I don't like how no one seems to place any importance whatsoever in the notion that people in positions of power just shouldn't be aggressive towards other people under any circumstance. This idea seems to be completely lost on most people. And so the argument that ~harassment~ coming from a bunch of anonymous people on the Internet is just as bad as ~harassment~ coming from journalists seems to be valid, when it really isn't. And while this guy is spot on that Twitter is a polarizing and overall bad place for any type of more in depth discussion, it kinda bothers me that absolutely no journalist or YouTuber who is neutral or pro-GG points out the imbalance of the situation. Maybe it's implied so they feel like they don't have to but still seems weird that this particular isn't made more often (or at all).

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;46180029]Moviebob is really strange in that both his opinions and his videos have gotten worse and worse since he started. He stopped being agreeable somewhere around video 15 and by video 30 he was saying bullshit like there being nothing wrong with Other M.[/QUOTE] Well the first half of his decline makes a fair amount of sense but the second half makes no sense at all. We know that Bob has always been a massive Nintendo fanboy with basically no desire to try playing or even showing respect towards things that weren't a part of his childhood. He seemed to restrain this part of himself in early episodes, but after a while he stopped (possibly because he felt he had grown popular enough that he didn't need to play it safe anymore). In spite of his shift toward fanboy droning he kept presenting himself in a pseudointellectual manner, causing "Everything I don't like is for idiot jocks" to become a recurring theme on GOT. Also, his adding plots to some of his videos comes from him watching stuff like AVGN videos and deciding that's what his videos need. He's actually said this. After that, it seems like he picked up a bunch of contrarian opinions for no real reason, including several that contradict things he said in earlier videos. It seems like he's trying really hard to maintain some kind of image but I'm not sure what that image is. The fact that he's a colossal manchild is more apparent than ever and yet he's still acting like he's an authority on what is mature and sophisticated and what's only good for dumb jocks.

I have the opinion we shouldn't be going after kickstarters its what anti GG does and unless its blatantly breaking rules its unwarreted. Also that poor kid. Everyday I draw more parallels between how subcultures are treated and highschool cliques.

[QUOTE=Athlias;46178758]Literally a Hatoful Boyfriend knockoff. Does a VN like this even need a Kickstarter[/QUOTE] Good VNs that have effort put in definitely may need one. This doesn't, the creator even admits to not having writing experience iirc. [editline]8th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Reimu;46179413]First off, I'm not associated with GG at all. I officially cut ties from GG a week or two ago, and will gladly and vocally talk about that if people really want me to. And, to be quite honest, I find this issue 100x more important than GG. We're looking at an ongoing issue of abuse enabling that happens in pretty much the whole entire social justice community and video game industry. This has been an ongoing issue in the former for several decades, and the latter for the past 7 - 10. Either way, what I'm doing has nothing to do with GG. The Zoe Quinn issue is something that has ramifications outside of gaming. It's not a coincidence that a non-gaming feminist publication published my twitlong.[/QUOTE] Yeah you're not going to find too much support from #GG on this because it's pretty much off-topic. In quantum mechanics this is called orthogonal states, which are properties of the same system that don't interact with each other under most circumstances. I just had a good idea for a post (inspired by that one poster who came here with his mind made up and opposing gamergate but still getting agrees and hearts), but if I wanted to add your issue I'd have to graph stuff in 3D and that's not happening. (It's also a somewhat work-intensive thing so no idea if I'll manage to go through with it.) (Radical) feminism and games are states that have a relatively strong coupling so to speak, due to years of discussion about gender issues and the recent hate campaigns. (Third(?)-wave) feminism and abuse are possibly even more strongly coupled, due to how those things are handles in their respective mainstreams. But games and this kind of abuse have virtually no relation to each other, so the stuff about Quinn that doesn't directly invalidate some of her anti-#GG tactics is almost entirely off-topic here (but I still appreciate you posting it). [editline]8th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=JesseR92;46180474]I have the opinion we shouldn't be going after kickstarters its what anti GG does and unless its blatantly breaking rules its unwarreted. Also that poor kid. Everyday I draw more parallels between how subcultures are treated and highschool cliques.[/QUOTE] If you want a Kickstarter to fail not mentioning it at all is in fact the best tactic. Case in point: Tropes vs Women.

moths are trying to attack socks: [url]https://twitter.com/Rinaxas/status/519764678499520512[/url]

Who the fuck is socks?

Sockarina, the person who gives the update videos. Because doing a summation of the day is an act of terror.

And they're probably upset that a girl is doing it too.

Literally worse than ISIS.

Where are people seeing the arb com stuff on wikipedia? I can't find it anywhere. It's not on this page. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests[/url]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Gamergate_controversy_article"]Here Bro.[/URL]

[QUOTE=Wii60;46179774]moviebob finally made a video about his stupid opinion it's a episode in part of some series, so the beginning isnt going to make much sense. [video=youtube;uh4aOe9CUnI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh4aOe9CUnI[/video][/QUOTE] I tried watching this video. I kept skipping around. At 5 minutes in he finally mentioned gamer gate. At 10 minutes in he still had no real point. I decided to stop watching at this point.

[URL="http://runningwithscissors.com/main/index.php?topic=2036"]RWS (Running With Scissors), the devs of POSTAL 1 and 2 speak about #gamergate.[/URL] They are in support of it! A few excepts from the article: [QUOTE] [B]In the last two months, information has come to the public eye, showing complete disregard of ethical standards among these journalists and some of the indie developers working with them.[/B] They engage in close, personal and romantic relationships with each other, while giving each other positive press and coverage. They financially back and support people they are supposed to report on, and remain impartial to. They give positive press and awards to games they themselves are financially tied to. They actively conspire among themselves on how to shape public opinion and divert attention away from themselves, by actively misinforming and directly lying to their own supporters. They attempt to silence and discredit opposing voices, that might threaten to reveal the true nature of their, or their friends' wrongdoings. They collectively participate in smear-campaigns against their (supposed) target demographic. And so, gamers have finally collectively had enough, and using the hashtag #GamerGate they are actively campaigning against and investigating the journalists who have turned against them. And rightly so - it’s good they now have to answer for their actions. It's impressive to see the kind of results gamers can achieve - such as informing the sponsors and advertisers of these journalism websites of recent events and having them cut their ties to them (recently Intel pulled their advertising off of Gamasutra). With more and more people becoming involved, more and more results are achieved. Public outrage has resulted in journalism websites having to address and change their ethical policies. Real journalists, such as Milo Yiannopoulos getting involved has resulted in some fine reporting, such as the smoking gun reveal that many of these game journalists belonging to a common mailing list, where they actively discuss how to coordinate their actions and which games to give coverage to. [B]All this information coming to light is forcing those who have done wrong to finally become accountable for their actions.[/B] [B]Gamers are fighting back, and make no mistake - they are directly changing things. [/B] Of course not all game journalists are corrupt, and we don't mean to imply they are - far from it. There are still many journalists and press outlets that provide solid and fair coverage, or they have at least stood above their peers in how they've handled this scandal. The Escapist deserves praise for not only addressing gamer's concerns by adjusting their ethics policies, but for also providing an open forum of discussion that allowed opinions from both sides of the issue to be expressed, despite being pressured to censor it. TechRaptor.net deserves cheers for being one of the earliest outlets to actually provide coverage for this issue (and taking a lot of heat for it). And then there's sites like GoodGamers.us that were formed specifically to provide an alternative to all the corrupt and biased sites involved in #GamerGate. We can only hope their kind outlasts the dishonest favor seekers, money grubbers, liars and cheats. [B]The industry has suffered a lot of injury in these months and we know it will take a lot of time to regain the trust of the gamers. But we also know there are still good people in the industry. [/B] We have always believed in the power of our fans and real gamers, to be vary of which sources they choose to receive their information from, to seek out the truth and to share their knowledge with the rest of their gaming family.[B] Gaming is not a solitary activity - It links people and places worldwide and lets their voices be heard by everyone.[/B] The next time anyone is tempted to get together in a deceitful group, trying to fight against gamers and their culture, the events of these months might just cause them to think twice and consider that honesty, transparency, accountability and integrity is the right path to take.[/QUOTE]