Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread. - General

[QUOTE=Wowza!;46200756]I don't really get this part. I don't think that writers who criticize an aspect of a game's character design or writing are forcing the developers to change that aspect, and artists aren't obligated to listen to any of the criticism they receive.[/QUOTE] However, the writers give them the publicity they deserve to make sales.

[QUOTE=Wowza!;46200756]I don't really get this part. I don't think that writers who criticize an aspect of a game's character design or writing are forcing the developers to change that aspect, and artists aren't obligated to listen to any of the criticism they receive.[/QUOTE] You missed the "In fact, an artist for Divinity: Original Sin claims his studo were blackmailed by journalists unless they removed the exposed midriff from the game's cover art."

Saw this by a guy with a #gamergate tweet, and the image was taken a couple of days ago due to the tweets being on the 8th of October, so it is safe to assume the person who tweeted Penn was talking about Gamergate. [img]http://i.imgur.com/qfb1nOf.png[/img] Oh and imagine if Penn was part of this, he would be on GG side for sure. I am pretty sure everyone would make him leader.

[QUOTE=Swilly;46200817]However, the writers give them the publicity they deserve to make sales.[/QUOTE] The writers are still giving coverage to the games they criticize, though. Even the clickbait "X game is sexist" articles are giving the game a good amount of publicity. [QUOTE=Thlis;46200978]You missed the "In fact, an artist for Divinity: Original Sin claims his studio were blackmailed by journalists unless they removed the exposed midriff from the game's cover art."[/QUOTE] There wasn't a link or image citing that statement, so I have no idea if it's true or not.

[QUOTE=Xonax;46201064]Saw this by a guy with a #gamergate tweet, and the image was taken a couple of days ago due to the tweets being on the 8th of October, so it is safe to assume the person who tweeted Penn was talking about Gamergate. [img]http://i.imgur.com/qfb1nOf.png[/img] Oh and imagine if Penn was part of this, he would be on GG side for sure. I am pretty sure everyone would make him leader.[/QUOTE] saw this yesterday. we can finally start taking these journalists to the trash, confirmed [editline]10th October 2014[/editline] also gawker wrote a new article on gamer gate: [url]https://archive.today/ncugC[/url] written by Jay Hathaway wait a minute... [url]https://archive.today/ixrXw[/url] "Gawker suspends staffer after story with ‘several similarities’ to Miami New Times piece" [quote]Gawker Editor Max Read has suspended staff writer Jay Hathaway after he posted a story that drew on a Miami New Times story without attribution. An editor’s note now adorns the post. Reached by email, Read said he didn’t think Hathaway’s post went through an editor, and that Gawker would look at Hathaway’s other writings “As a matter of course.” He also said, “I want to emphasize this is the first time he’s ever been accused of plagiarism, and I have faith that he will never duplicate or fail to cite ever again.” Read plans to look “at the site as a whole” to make sure “we’re maintaining best ‘how not to blog like a huge prick’ practices,” he writes.[/quote] [editline]10th October 2014[/editline] also a good read: [url]http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/10/10/How-to-lose-a-public-relations-battle-on-the-internet[/url]

[QUOTE=Reimu;46200609]That's fucking hilarious. They used a sexist slur in the process of telling me that I'm a bad person. Also, they spelt my name wrong, both first and last. If you see more like this, post them here. I'll do a reading of them on my livestream.[/QUOTE]PLEASE tear them a new asshole in your next video. :v: I'm looking forward to watching.

[URL="https://twitter.com/AndreaBettis_/status/520533008395558912"]When you work so hard to fight gamergate by making memes all day long. [/URL]

[QUOTE=Psycho9182;46201669][URL="https://twitter.com/AndreaBettis_/status/520533008395558912"]When you work so hard to fight gamergate by making memes all day long. [/URL][/QUOTE] Most of those are incoherent. Also the kid pictured has autism.

[t]http://i.imgur.com/sSkfZh0.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/rHafHrj.png[/t] Apparently Jim has been getting some harassment about his GG stance and he's getting tired of it. [editline]10th October 2014[/editline] Has this been posted yet? [url]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/features/12383-Game-Developer-GamerGate-Interviews-Shed-Light-on-Women-in-Games[/url]

I must agree with Jim on that account. It disturbs me how quickly people like Milo and KingofPol became de facto spokesmen for GG. I mean seriously, if you want to prove that gaming is accepting towards everyone, is somebody named KingofPol a good choice for doing that?

The effects from his attempted neutrality are coming in on Jim, which is a shame but was bound to happen. First trying to appease both sides in his video, then calling the secret mailing list unimportant, it all just starts sliding downhill for him Edit: he has some support for totalbiscuit and he has been disagreeing with actions of the Anti-gamergate side a bit. But, he has a dislike with certain members of GG namely the Breitbart people from what I heard, which is my reason to name him neutral on this matter.

when did KingofPol become a spokesman for us? who the fuck said that? just because we're praising for some people for trying to speak out doesn't make them our spokesman [editline]10th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Silicon Jones;46201798]The effects from his attempted neutrality are coming in on Jim, which is a shame but was bound to happen. First trying to appease both sides in his video, then calling the secret mailing list unimportant, it all just starts sliding downhill for him[/QUOTE] he's clearly not neutral if you've read anything from him

Yeah, as people have said Jim is perfectly fine calling out big, AAA developers because they're an easy target. And he is fine calling out no-name, shitty one-person developers because they can't defend themselves. But when it comes time to call out the bigger indie devs, he tucks tail and cowers away. And when doing so would also call in to question the others in the field he works in, he doesn't want it at all.

The problem is that the "core" of GG is intended to support neutrality in everything, therefore by definition GG is neutral. However some people are pushing their bias under the guise of neutrality, particularly Milo. Because these people are very vocal the opposing side is lead to believe they represent all of us.

[QUOTE=Stents*;46202059]The problem is that the "core" of GG is intended to support neutrality in everything, therefore by definition GG is neutral. However some people are pushing their bias under the guise of neutrality, particularly Milo. Because these people are very vocal the opposing side is lead to believe they represent all of us.[/QUOTE]That's what I keep telling people, we don't have to own these people like Baldwin or Milo. Bring them up when they do something relevant, but don't keep bringing them up just because they [B]were[/B] relevant at one point. [editline]10th October 2014[/editline] They don't have to be invited to every discussion and twitch chat and call. You just say "We'll be doing this. If you have anything to contribute, let us know." and if they say "Yeah, we've got information." Then fine. But don't invite them to stand on a soap box just to go on about whatever they want, and don't let them go off on a tangent when they actually are involved. People like Baldwin, Milo, Penn, they have nothing to lose out of this, its the same thing they always get and they don't care if they get called conservative or whatever, they accept that as a title for who they are.

If anything, GG's doom will be the fact that it covers so many fronts. The three main things it's aiming to stop are harassment, corruption and people abusing rights movements for their own aims, and each of those topics also covers a huge amount of information. This is why the anti-GG side can cherrypick and make everybody look bad- our lack of leadership means that we are, for better or worse, totally unorganised. Any collective actions are either pre-planned by small sub-groups or coincidence. That's the reason why arseholes are seen to represent the whole movement; we might express our disgust at their actions and bigotry, but at the end of the day our voices are only as audible as theirs, and often only the most extreme messages are picked out. However, I've managed to help some of my friends to understand what this is actually about, and most people who aren't just blindly following the indie devs and journalists seem to be pro-GG. This is the main reason why I support it.

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;46201803]he's clearly not neutral if you've read anything from him[/QUOTE]Key word is "attempted." Laying low and staying at a basic "Hey we should all calm down" stance would probably have been good enough for most people to avoid too much ire. Thing is, Jim has built his entire career on being a boisterous champion for the consumer against skeevy business practices. It's his hat. His video persona, although obviously exaggerated for laughs, is literally built around the idea of consumers thanking their gods that someone such as him can be as valiant and unswayable in the fight for their rights. Then all this malarkey happens, and the shockwaves start hitting a little too close to home. The people under the magnifying glass aren't talking heads at EA or some cartoonishly ignorant nobody with five dollars and a greenlight page to his name; they are [i]actual[/i] people that he [i]actually[/i] knows. And when - unsatisfied with what's been discovered - the hand holding this magnifying glass rotates ever so slightly to focus the light and start raising the temperature, he sees friends about to go up in flames. This isn't him going out to take pot-shots at distant silhouettes any more; the issue has followed him back to his home. I understand how difficult it is where he stands, [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1421478&p=45864618&highlight=#post45864618]and called his inability to get out of this intact over a month ago[/url], but he's simply a perfect storm of attributes that this conflict seems to have been tailor-made to rake over the coals. Side with GG, be torn apart by journalist friends. Side against GG, be torn apart by consumers. Attempt to stay neutral, moderate or quiet altogether? [i]Be torn apart by own audience, who follow you specifically because you have promised to never be neutral, moderate, or quiet on exactly these kinds of issues.[/i]

People like Milo aren't that different from people who try and promote their bias under the guise of equality, the exact people we're fighting.

[QUOTE=Stents*;46202059]The problem is that the "core" of GG is intended to support neutrality in everything, therefore by definition GG is neutral. However some people are pushing their bias under the guise of neutrality, particularly Milo. Because these people are very vocal the opposing side is lead to believe they represent all of us.[/QUOTE] The problem is that GG was never neutral, its not anything. Its a consumer revolution and so therefore its a mass political movement meaning that there is no central goal. The fact we're able to agree on a central tenant of Ethics and Objectivity in Gaming Journalism is actually rather surprising considering similar movements like Occupy Wallstreet didn't succeed in most of its goals because there were too many. There is no leadership in the movement, there are particular voices but they come from all different walks of life. Its why the 'Gamers Are Dead' line failed and fell flat on its face. \ Yes we have conservatives, we also have feminists, civil rights advocates, consumer rights advocates, democracts, socialists, libertarians.

[QUOTE=Swilly;46202324]The problem is that GG was never neutral, its not anything. Its a consumer revolution and so therefore its a mass political movement meaning that there is no central goal. The fact we're able to agree on a central tenant of Ethics and Objectivity in Gaming Journalism is actually rather surprising considering similar movements like Occupy Wallstreet didn't succeed in most of its goals because there were too many. There is no leadership in the movement, there are particular voices but they come from all different walks of life. Its why the 'Gamers Are Dead' line failed and fell flat on its face. \ Yes we have conservatives, we also have feminists, civil rights advocates, consumer rights advocates, democracts, socialists, libertarians.[/QUOTE] I did mention the "core" of the movement, who I consider to be people who actively participate in discussions like this and not just the ones who only say "Look at all these stupid journalists/feminists/SFWs TOP KEK!". For the most part I think everyone here is on the same page as far as our goals. And the reason occupy didn't have a clear goal while we do is that GG has its roots on the internet, where information and discussion spreads much faster. Occupy didn't have this level of organized discussion on the internet, there was a lot of it but it was extremely fragmented.

So I've been away from the forums and Internet for the most part for about 8 months. I really don't feel like readi through 150 pages of this thread. Can someone give me a quick rundown on what exactly this scandal is all about? Much appreciated.

[QUOTE=ArchXeno;46201771]I must agree with Jim on that account. It disturbs me how quickly people like Milo and KingofPol became de facto spokesmen for GG. I mean seriously, if you want to prove that gaming is accepting towards everyone, is somebody named KingofPol a good choice for doing that?[/QUOTE] Latching on to right wing figures in general is starting to drive me away from this incoherent mess even more than before. These guys have no interest in the movement at all, they fucking hate you guys with all their passion. After all, you were useless nerds who didn't contribute to society before all this begun. Do you not find it remotely strange that they suddenly have an interest in you now that GG can be safely used to attack social justice under the guise of attacking "SJWs"? It gives them the perfect platform to be huge dickheads to the people who oppose them, with an echo chamber to help re-enforce their views even harder. It's why I'm very suspicious of that video from Sommers, I have nothing against her in particular, but why would she work with the AEL if she is the "one true feminist" GG purports her to be? The AEL are conservative as fuck. Milo has also be outed as a huge fucking asshole multiple times in the past, and at least once since he got involved in this. But he's still "based Milo" for some un-fucking-known reason. The right really have no care about this movement other than to further their own agendas. [editline]10th October 2014[/editline] Oh yeah, Baldwin, that guy who recently decided that Obama is in on the "Ebola in the US" conspiracy because he's a fucking loon to. None of these guys are good for the movement, distance yourselves now or regret it later.

[QUOTE=Teddybeer;46202560]Instead of ranting about it every time provide a better alternative.[/QUOTE] I did. Don't let them take the forefront like they keep doing. Don't idolize them because they leaked info that one time. Don't act like their shit doesn't stink just because they tweet "hey, gamers aren't actual demons". Seriously, that's basically implied by the entire post. I shouldn't have to be posting this.

christ if you get bothered by people calling milo "based" and sommers "based mom" i think you're missing the point. these are very loud people with power behind their words and they're helping us out. they haven't said much wrong when it comes to gamergate, and theyve been open about listening to everyone else about it. you can disagree with what theyve said in the past when it comes to other topics but you have to be able to put all of that aside in order to take what theyve uncovered and let them help us out. you are also wrong about king of pol and milo not caring about gamers. kingofpol was a 4chan regular and enjoys video games, and milo has recently began playing video games recommended to him in order to understand video games and gamer culture. it also doesn't matter what sommers is. listen, the anti-gg wants to paint all of these people as one thing or another. since "conservative" = "bad" to this generation, generally, its much much easier for them to ride the "theyre conservative!" angle to discredit them. but it shouldn't, unless you disagree with something theyve said on the topic of gamergate. also if you've been paying attention, KOP, IA, milo, erik kain, all of these big names that have been reporting for gamer gate and had had far-reaching voices about the topic have been having debates with anti-gg people in an attempt to break out of the echo chamber-esque discussions. you might think that most people are just taking what these people say as gospel but you're probably just looking at the general populace. the people who know whats up are the ones researching what they are saying about gamergate and forming their own opinions. every time i say "based milo" i'm not going to go through the entire thought process of how i came to agree with the latest thing milo wrote about on the topic of gamergate, especially when the internet allows me to shout my agreement with two words, doesn't mean he's an official spokesperson for me.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46202532]Latching on to right wing figures in general is starting to drive me away from this incoherent mess even more than before.[/QUOTE] Milo is when I started to distance myself from GG. I became very uncomfortable with who the big players for GG were becoming. [QUOTE=ForgottenKane;46201803]when did KingofPol become a spokesman for us? who the fuck said that? just because we're praising for some people for trying to speak out doesn't make them our spokesman[/QUOTE] It's not hard to think that considering how often his stream gets posted, how often Milo and co. regularly appear and talk on it, and how many people rally behind their thoughts. They have become the unofficial spokesmen of GG.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46202605]I did. Don't let them take the forefront like they keep doing. Don't idolize them because they leaked info that one time. Don't act like their shit doesn't stink just because they tweet "hey, gamers aren't actual demons". Seriously, that's basically implied by the entire post. I shouldn't have to be posting this.[/QUOTE] That's not an alternative, that's sticking up our noses because human beings are human beings.

[QUOTE=TheJoey;46202621]christ if you get bothered by people calling milo "based" and sommers "based mom" i think you're missing the point. these are very loud people with power behind their words and they're helping us out. they haven't said much wrong when it comes to gamergate, and theyve been open about listening to everyone else about it. you can disagree with what theyve said in the past when it comes to other topics but you have to be able to put all of that aside in order to take what theyve uncovered and let them help us out. you are also wrong about king of pol and milo not caring about gamers. kingofpol was a 4chan regular and enjoys video games, and milo has recently began playing video games recommended to him in order to understand video games and gamer culture. it also doesn't matter what sommers is. listen, the anti-gg wants to paint all of these people as one thing or another. since "conservative" = "bad" to this generation, generally, its much much easier for them to ride the "theyre conservative!" angle to discredit them. but it shouldn't, unless you disagree with something theyve said on the topic of gamergate. also if you've been paying attention, KOP, IA, milo, erik kain, all of these big names that have been reporting for gamer gate and had had far-reaching voices about the topic have been having debates with anti-gg people in an attempt to break out of the echo chamber-esque discussions.[/QUOTE] Can you really blame me for being suspicious of a group that historically have never recognised games and anything other than "murder simulators" and other silly misconceptions? I didn't mention KOP because I know they're a Chan user, of course games actually mean something to them. It's the other figures I'm more concerned about. Milo may be playing games to try and understand them, but that doesn't absolve him of previous behaviour. It helps him fit in more, sure, but that's all it does. He's still got a history of being a huge dick. "They're conservative" isn't bad, there are tons of conservative gamers. But conservative figureheads and mouthpieces suddenly stepping up to the plate to "defend" gamers? That's pretty weird. I'm not saying totally block them out, because that's what would be doing what GG purports to hate. But rather, keep them under careful eyes, don't treat them any differently from any other person involved in this. Yes, they are big names, but if you want to succeed, just make sure they don't start trying to twist this to their ends, or anything along those lines.

How much I fucking hate this argument "oh people I don't like have became spokespersons for the movement, baahahaa". I'm not talking about anyone in particular, don't mean to attack you guys in this thread, but the universality and prevalence of these words are just pissing me off. Well fuck, you don't like the talking heads, people at the mic. Go on then. Take the mic in your hands. Make yourself heard. In a leaderless movement, which GG [b]is[/b], everyone has an even opportunity to speak up and make his or her or their words judged by everyone else, agreed or disagreed on. But instead everyone just fucking pussies out and criticizes, literally everyone. Allowing and enabling present spokespersons to drive their agenda (the statement I don't agree with in the slightest). What the hell is wrong with people. At this point it sucks that Reimu decided to distance themselves from the GG. They would've become a great spokesperson with an alternative point of view on a lot of stuff. I know I'm ranting. But really. Don't take offense in it, guys, I know you are concerned about the movement. It's directed more at people who claim to be "on a fence". Like Jim, for example. "Oh you have nazis and conservatives talking for you on podcasts and shit, I don't want to play in your sandbox, keep your swastika-plastered toys away from me". Even if they are talking "for us", which is debatable - well, how about you present an alternative point of view? You have one, don't you? But like, really, you pussied out, we all already got that. Stop trying to hide the piss running down your leg. [editline]10th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=hexpunK;46202693]But rather, keep them under careful eyes, don't treat them any differently from any other person involved in this. Yes, they are big names, but if you want to succeed, just make sure they don't start trying to twist this to their ends, or anything along those lines.[/QUOTE] And this is what I believe and totally agree with. The moment something goes suspicious, we must have people who are ready to step up and take the mic away from hijackers.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46202532]Latching on to right wing figures in general is starting to drive me away from this incoherent mess even more than before. These guys have no interest in the movement at all, they fucking hate you guys with all their passion. After all, you were useless nerds who didn't contribute to society before all this begun. Do you not find it remotely strange that they suddenly have an interest in you now that GG can be safely used to attack social justice under the guise of attacking "SJWs"? It gives them the perfect platform to be huge dickheads to the people who oppose them, with an echo chamber to help re-enforce their views even harder. It's why I'm very suspicious of that video from Sommers, I have nothing against her in particular, but why would she work with the AEL if she is the "one true feminist" GG purports her to be? The AEL are conservative as fuck. Milo has also be outed as a huge fucking asshole multiple times in the past, and at least once since he got involved in this. But he's still "based Milo" for some un-fucking-known reason. The right really have no care about this movement other than to further their own agendas. [editline]10th October 2014[/editline] Oh yeah, Baldwin, that guy who recently decided that Obama is in on the "Ebola in the US" conspiracy because he's a fucking loon to. None of these guys are good for the movement, distance yourselves now or regret it later.[/QUOTE] Milo, yes. Baldwin, yes. Sommers, I don't think so. She's been doing this kind of stuff for years now and I feel like questioning her is doing the same thing that "rad fems" do now which is ignoring a more level headed source that is actually educated on the subject and has been in the movement for far longer than most third-waves have been alive. Is the video she put out about video games well timed? Yeah, but it's also super relevant because we have all these people who think they know shit on the subject when really they're just manufacturing controversy over it. It's had to have been something she considered before, just less important because it's a fake issue. I didn't know Balwin was a crazy right winger in the first place and I honesty think Milo is shady as fuck from the beginning. Even the GameJournosPro reveal felt super shady because it was all cut and paste posts and a huge list of names that tries to damn people who might have been part of that group but never even posted there or had any interest in it after a week. I hate the KingOfPol streams because every time I check out what is being talked about there it feels like...well, a little slice of /pol/. I don't want these people to be the voices and faces of #GG, I'd rather just take what they're giving and discard them.

[QUOTE=Banned?;46202814]Milo, yes. Baldwin, yes. Sommers, I don't think so. She's been doing this kind of stuff for years now and I feel like questioning her is doing the same thing that "rad fems" do now which is ignoring a more level headed source that is actually educated on the subject and has been in the movement for far longer than most third-waves have been alive. Is the video she put out about video games well timed? Yeah, but it's also super relevant because we have all these people who think they know shit on the subject when really they're just manufacturing controversy over it. It's had to have been something she considered before, just less important because it's a fake issue. I didn't know Balwin was a crazy right winger in the first place and I honesty think Milo is shady as fuck from the beginning. Even the GameJournosPro reveal felt super shady because it was all cut and paste posts and a huge list of names that tries to damn people who might have been part of that group but never even posted there or had any interest in it after a week. I hate the KingOfPol streams because every time I check out what is being talked about there it feels like...well, a little slice of /pol/. I don't want these people to be the voices and faces of #GG, I'd rather just take what they're giving and discard them.[/QUOTE] I'm not really questioning Sommers herself, what I know of her is largely positive. I'm largely questioning the group that funded and published that video. Think tanks are agenda machines, they don't do anything that won't help or further their purpose. To me it looks like they're trying to get gamers more disenfranchised with more centre/ centre-left ideals by saying "look we have a well known feminist here who agrees with you, we showed her, so we're good right?". Everybody else so far has just been turbo-shady or straight-up toxic outside of their tweeting about the movement. I don't really keep up with KoP because /pol/ is a pretty weird place in the first place. Not the best people on the planet really. [editline]10th October 2014[/editline] I mean, accept their help. Anything they can provide information wise is worth looking into. But avoid letting them steer the ship, so to speak. Ensure what they provide is accurate. Then sit them back down whilst the core of the movement, the annoyed gaming community, do the work that needs doing.