Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread. - General

[QUOTE=Tsyolin;46204929]Erik Kane sure posted a lot of stuff about GG today on Twitter, does anyone know what happened exactly to cause this? It seemed pretty unusual.[/QUOTE] a talk with internet aristocrat, king of pol, milo, shortfatotaku and lo-ping during a live stream about gamergate. he was told to research better and stop being so on the fence, so maybe it sparked something?

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;46204790]*stumbles along a dark lamplit street edgar allen poe-level wasted on scotch* they... they besmirched the name of Gamers... those b-bastards *tips over into a gutter, dies of exposure*[/QUOTE] oh look, sigmalambda is making another so witty post without reading anything else in the thread because lol those losers with their video games!!! [sp]fuck off, gwai lo[/sp]

[QUOTE=TheJoey;46205025]a talk with internet aristocrat, king of pol, milo, shortfatotaku and lo-ping during a live stream about gamergate. he was told to research better and stop being so on the fence, so maybe it sparked something?[/QUOTE] Oh really, I'll have to check that out. I get the feeling that Erik Kane wants to speak up about GG but is too afraid of what might happen if he does. I can't necessarily blame him for doing it but damn his tweets were really confusing, it's really hard to see where he stands. It just seems like he's trying way to hard to be neutral.

[QUOTE=Tsyolin;46205080]Oh really, I'll have to check that out. I get the feeling that Erik Kane wants to speak up about GG but is too afraid of what might happen if he does. I can't necessarily blame him for doing it but damn his tweets were really confusing, it's really hard to see where he stands. It just seems like he's trying way to hard to be neutral.[/QUOTE] here you go: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OedD4pyK668[/url] 6 hours long though.

[QUOTE=Tsyolin;46205080]It just seems like he's trying way to hard to be neutral.[/QUOTE] He is, it's called False Balance. It's one of the most dishonest things you can possibly do in my eyes, almost as bad as Leigh Alexander referring to niggers as "hood rats" because she doesn't have the (metaphorical) balls to say nigger.

[QUOTE=Da Vinci3;46206215]He is, it's called False Balance. It's one of the most dishonest things you can possibly do in my eyes, almost as bad as Leigh Alexander referring to niggers as "hood rats" because she doesn't have the (metaphorical) balls to say nigger.[/QUOTE] She called them "hood men". Not explicitly referring to race in and of itself, but it's as implicitly racially-charged as "ghetto trash".

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzpkqBtCcAAfJT7.png[/IMG] This whole Brianna Wu scandal just smells of an absolute false flag attack. And it perfectly showcases how hypocritical the anti-GG side is. That anti-GG meme was of a crying Asian child, which was from an adverb boosting autism awareness under children. Apparently, it is okay for them to insult minorities with autism. Yet, the moment someone calls a female out on their mistakes, it is obliviously misogynist from the entire GG side. I don't advocate doxxing, but this whole thing just reeks. Apart from her discussing the doxxing even before it happened, it also appears that her friends tweeted around that people should support her by buying her game, which by all accounts, makes Bad Rats look like a masterpiece. Yet it got several 90's across the board from a number of gaming sites, but got completely ignored otherwise by the crowd. ([URL="https://8chan.co/gg/res/85798.html#q87306"]This 8chan post descibes it better than I can right now.[/URL]) Suddenly, she butts in on the whole GG business, she even admits in false flagging on the GG side, she even goes that far to make fun of autistic minorities while doing so, and suddenly she is a victim of the evil, evil misogynists of gamergate because she gets sent death threats over Twitter from someone without any links to GG. Someone without any posts prior in that given thread then posts her address on 8ch's GG board. Then she goes on to say that people can support her by buying her game. I find it beyond ironic how these people keep complaining that games are misogynist because they play the 'damsel in distress' trope from time to time, yet themselves play damsel in distress pretty much every time to reflect criticism or to garner sympathy from people so that they can line their pockets even more. And of course, it gets parroted around endlessly by the sites that allow this kind of behavior. Don't get me wrong, I am all for gender equality, but seeing how easily these people can abuse their position of power by allowing this kind of behavior just sickens me. Meanwhile people from the anti-GG side get doxxed, or in the case of the creator of #notyourshield, get even fired from their jobs, and no-one even bats an eye. [t]http://i.imgur.com/PxxSMvt.png[/t] Also, MundaneMatt made a video about it too, although this whole thing seems like a mess right now: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2nCM4c9PpY&[/url]

Oh great now some retard who claims to study politics is saying that GG supporting TFYC is not a good thing because they're a crowdfunding project. [QUOTE=Flufflogic]Contributing to a kickstarter or similar fundraiser is funding a project. It’s not "a force for good". It’s capitalism. How does it in any way act as a force for good? Because it spites the people who allegedly tried to stop it?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=_Axel;46207109]Oh great now some retard who claims to study politics is saying that GG supporting TFYC is not a good thing because they're a crowdfunding project.[/QUOTE] Well, they are named The Fine Young Capitalists so....

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;46207143]Well, they are named The Fine Young Capitalists so....[/QUOTE] Yeah and they're a nonprofit organization which donates any gains to charity. Not exactly a textbook greedy corporation.

[QUOTE]Contributing to a kickstarter or similar fundraiser is funding a project. It’s not "a force for good". [/QUOTE] But this somehow never applies to LW2's videos in the first place....

[QUOTE=truckilles;46207413]But this somehow never applies to LW2's videos in the first place....[/QUOTE] To be quite honest I don't know his stance on Anita's videos. We're trying so hard to stop people from associating Gamergate with the hate speech which stems from a few, so we probably shouldn't paint the opposition with strokes too broad at the risk of sounding like hypocrites. [editline]11th October 2014[/editline] That being said I wouldn't be particularly surprised if he was being a hypocrite about that himself.

I accidentally stumbled onto Zoe's steam account. There are a good deal of jokes about autistic people on it, including using a former steam name that pokes fun at Downs Syndrome. Sigh.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46207513]I accidentally stumbled onto Zoe's steam account. There are a good deal of ableist jokes that poke fun at autistic people on her Steam account.[/QUOTE] How can people not see through her shit? It's like she's deliberately testing to which extent she needs to violate her alleged values for her supporters to notice.

She's also in a bunch of goon groups, and goons are infamous for talking the talk without actually giving a shit about social justice in their personal lives.

[QUOTE=27X;46203686] Their politics should not matter, that's part of the entire point. Gaming should not be politicized, ever. There are four main points: Actual journalism instead of payola in gaming, particularly electronic gaming. Social Engineering started by a nongamer who doesn't even know what an actual gamer (as an entity) is upon the gaming populace, who was aided and abetted by journalists who have no business reporting on games to begin with, and have been shown, actively hate and belittle their own readership. The collusion between publishers and devs and advertisers to engineer financial and social paradigms in gaming for their own benefit, at a cost to both devs and consumers. The allowance of prejudiced people to be in positions of power within the games industry, thus negatively shaping future games and game development directly.[/QUOTE] A problem (really, the problem) with GamerGate is that half-post there and especially "games should not be politicized." Games are political from their creation and it's daft to suggest that they don't present certain worldviews in even the most abstract games. This debate goes on endlessly, so I'll just leave a good Errant Signal video below which kind of preempts the whole ordeal by a few months (not least in his dislike of the term gamer). [video=youtube;7_tdztHiyiE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_tdztHiyiE[/video] With that video in mind, it's equally silly to suggest that some people are "prejudiced" unless the statement includes the disclaimer that [I]all [/I]people are prejudiced. Yes, of course, people wouldn't bring their political philosophy to reviewing a washing machine but if you believe games can be critiqued at the same level as books, movies, visual art then of course people will dissect how this or that group is represented or what message this system sends. It sells games short to say that they aren't political since it may as well read "games are just toys."

[QUOTE=Jordax;46206837][...] This whole Brianna Wu scandal just smells of an absolute false flag attack. And it perfectly showcases how hypocritical the anti-GG side is. That anti-GG meme was of a crying Asian child, which was from an adverb boosting autism awareness under children. Apparently, it is okay for them to insult minorities with autism. Yet, the moment someone calls a female out on their mistakes, it is obliviously misogynist from the entire GG side. I don't advocate doxxing, but this whole thing just reeks. Apart from her discussing the doxxing even before it happened, it also appears that her friends tweeted around that people should support her by buying her game, which by all accounts, makes Bad Rats look like a masterpiece. Yet it got several 90's across the board from a number of gaming sites, but got completely ignored otherwise by the crowd. ([URL="https://8chan.co/gg/res/85798.html#q87306"]This 8chan post descibes it better than I can right now.[/URL]) [...][/QUOTE] [URL="https://archive.today/Pfxlm"]Archive in case of 404.[/URL] (The post is highlighted.)

I agree with Denicide. The problem isn't that video games aren't political - culture is inherently political. The problem is that gamers, developers, and gaming writers across all views are not building the bridges necessary to introduce gamers to the nuance of their critiques. One of the biggest problems right now in gaming is that SJ + non-SJ gamers have very shitty communication. Both actually have a lot in common that they can come to the table with, but the nuance gets lost very quickly. See: people villainizing Jenn Frank

[QUOTE=truckilles;46207413]But this somehow never applies to LW2's videos in the first place....[/QUOTE] Can someone please explain to me this whole You-Know-Who business? I thinks it's fine to discuss what they're up to if you do it properly, and if you don't name them then whoever tries to look up what is going on with them without prior knowledge will only find the shit-flinging instead.

-snip whoops-

[QUOTE=Reimu;46207513]I accidentally stumbled onto Zoe's steam account. There are a good deal of jokes about autistic people on it, including using a former steam name that pokes fun at Downs Syndrome. Sigh.[/QUOTE] Funnily enough not even the Facepunch programming chat is that bad, and WAYWO is one of the more drama-filled parts of the forum.

You're telling me! -snip- Downs Syndrome sure is funny guys, hehehe [editline]11th October 2014[/editline] Also by good deal I mean "two." But that's already more than enough than what a social justice advocate for mental illness & disabilities should have on their page.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46207672]You're telling me! [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/uAUl4N1.png[/thumb] [b]Downs Syndrome sure is funny guys, hehehe autistic people[/b] [/QUOTE] That's arguably just as offensive as what she's doing, because Downs Syndrom =/= Autism.

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;46207716]That's arguably just as offensive as what she's doing, because Downs Syndrom =/= Autism.[/QUOTE] Oh, the second joke she has is about autistic people. But I'll edit that out, sorry, was suppose to be ironic but obviously didn't come out right.

Just throwing that out there, just because she has a name that's a bad ploy on PW's name doesn't suddenly make her ableist, just really unfunny (unless the name came about from a session with friends. one drunken night playing Cards Against Humanity can make that name have some sense). Maybe I'm being a little too easy on her here, but that's how I see it. [editline]11th October 2014[/editline] I have been diagnosed with a high functioning form of autism and I don't find any of these bad jokes to be offensive at all, but perhaps that's just me. What I would find offensive would probably be something along the lines of saying that autistic people are incapable of functioning, or something or other, not some idiot's pisstake.

Here, let me post it. The caption says "autistic children play here." I think it's a Minecraft group? -snip- Either way, I just think that that kind of humor should be a clear line, because her public activism is [i]constantly[/i] focused on creating safe spaces that don't engage in punching down. Also, her Steam is something she seems to give out to a lot of different people, especially people she meets at cons. Even Max is on there! So I just think she should be a little more considerate, seeing how inclusive language is something she seems to be big on throughout twitter & etc.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46207636]I agree with Denicide. The problem isn't that video games aren't political - culture is inherently political. The problem is that gamers, developers, and gaming writers across all views are not building the bridges necessary to introduce gamers to the nuance of their critiques. One of the biggest problems right now in gaming is that SJ + non-SJ gamers have very shitty communication. Both actually have a lot in common that they can come to the table with, but the nuance gets lost very quickly. See: people villainizing Jenn Frank[/QUOTE] That's a bad example, she posted a lot of reprehensible things and hasn't done any bridge-building that I'm aware of. If she has a valuable message is extremely poorly packaged.

[QUOTE=Tamschi;46207775]That's a bad example, she posted a lot of reprehensible things and hasn't done any bridge-building that I'm aware of. If she has a valuable message is extremely poorly packaged.[/QUOTE] Eh, that's not entirely true. Frank, RvS, and I had a big storified discussion about various GG issues, and it was pretty good faith. She's still not necessarily supportive of GG, but she's also willing to talk to people supportive of it (if not flat-out aligned). Which is better than most.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46207672]You're telling me! Downs Syndrome sure is funny guys, hehehe [editline]11th October 2014[/editline] Also by good deal I mean "two." But that's already more than enough than what a social justice advocate for mental illness & disabilities should have on their page.[/QUOTE] This is actually enough information to easily find the account. Also lol max is on that friend list, not a surprise.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46207636]I agree with Denicide. The problem isn't that video games aren't political - culture is inherently political. The problem is that gamers, developers, and gaming writers across all views are not building the bridges necessary to introduce gamers to the nuance of their critiques. One of the biggest problems right now in gaming is that SJ + non-SJ gamers have very shitty communication. Both actually have a lot in common that they can come to the table with, but the nuance gets lost very quickly. See: people villainizing Jenn Frank[/QUOTE] I think it's certainly true that no one has built the bridges to introduce critique. Feminist Frequency, places like RPS etc. would probably be more successful if they argued first for the merit of social critique before launching into it. Should they have to, though? I mean ultimately the responsibility should lie with the viewer/reader to be informed of that. It's no big deal if they aren't and consequentially don't like a piece of videogame critique but when that triggers campaigns to remove the media it seems odd. In that case, you only have yourself to blame if you embark on a misguided crusade against it. The fact that you didn't understand is no excuse when google is open to you. On a related note: Take, for instance, the aforementioned Feminist Frequency. It's widely regurgitated that it is a "scam" by which they mean she has robbed her Kickstarter backers. The strange thing is that it isn't the backers complaining about this but people offended - or pretending to be offended - on their behalf. To me that's the kind of blind whiteknighting SJWs are accused of. To go a little further I'd apply this kind of thinking to most of the 'Gamers are Dead' articles. Here and elsewhere people complain that these writers 'insulting their readers.' Of course, the people leveling the complaints are not the readers (least of all of places like Gamasultra which is an industry site). This is all to say that I think GG people would be much happier if they simply didn't consume media they didn't like.