Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread. - General

[QUOTE=01271;46207845]This is actually enough information to easily find the account. Also lol max is on that friend list, not a surprise.[/QUOTE] Err if that's the case I'm going to take down the images, bleh. I'm guessing her Steam was relatively accessible anyway to begin with but still.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46207768]Here, let me post it. The caption says "autistic children play here." I think it's a Minecraft group? [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/IwNSO0a.png[/thumb] Either way, I just think that that kind of humor should be a clear line, because her public activism is [i]constantly[/i] focused on creating safe spaces that don't engage in punching down. Also, her Steam is something she seems to give out to a lot of different people, especially people she meets at cons. Even Max is on there! So I just think she should be a little more considerate, seeing how inclusive language is something she seems to be big on throughout twitter & etc.[/QUOTE] So now you're equating a group's (probably ironic) caption which she happens to be a member of with a personal statement from her? I don't say this often, but seriously: Fuck you! The personality cultish tendencies you have going on on Twitter are bad enough, but not even the most hate-filled SocJus have been weaponizing disabled people through ([editline]edit[/editline] almost) completely made up associations like that. [editline]edit[/editline] I could have worded that better, but I stand 100% behind the non-insulting layer of this post.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46207879]Err if that's the case I'm going to take down the images, bleh. I'm guessing her Steam was relatively accessible anyway to begin with but still.[/QUOTE] Anyone who knows how greenlight submissions work could easily find her account. Her profile is all locked up though, so the worst anyone can do is start harassing her steam friends who also mostly have friends only pages.

I was taken aback right away because that kind of nickname & steam group simply doesn't fly in our leftist social justice communities. It's the kind of thing people would call out, because they're jokes and humor that are considered ableist. This isn't related to ableism, but something similar with regard to jokes happened to me with regard to immigration. I made jokes about immigration in my first Papers, Please playthrough, and someone from SRS called me out about it in a PM and I did an annotated apology. That said, I jumped the gun with that and should not have just started posting it. That was my fault. I also am taking some of this stuff too seriously. I really should take a step back and just kind of stop getting hyped up on Twitter, because it does turn into a hugbox on there for me. So you're right.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46207978]I was taken aback right away because that kind of nickname & steam group simply doesn't fly in our leftist social justice communities. It's the kind of thing people would call out, because they're jokes and humor that are considered ableist. This isn't related to ableism, but something similar with regard to jokes happened to me with regard to immigration. I made jokes about immigration in my first Papers, Please playthrough, and someone from SRS called me out about it in a PM and I did an annotated apology. That said, I jumped the gun with that and should not have just started posting it. That was my fault. I also am taking some of this stuff too seriously. I really should take a step back and just kind of stop getting hyped up on Twitter, because it does turn into a hugbox on there for me. So you're right.[/QUOTE] maybe you shouldnt be so affected by people who are too tightly woven up their own assholes and just make the jokes you wanna make because they're jokes. and the thing about jokes is, if someone doesnt like the joke, chances are there is someone that does, so in the end who gives a shit? if you're out there entertaining, you're not there to be sensitive. lets be real here. same shit goes for LITERALLY WHO except she's a hypocritical piece of shit that gets backed up by the same crowd that would denounce anyone who tells such a joke.

That steam group was getting a bit too creppy for my tastes, calling her a bad person because of her steam name, fair enough, going to her steam account, searching trough her groups, and saying she's a bad person because one out of X groups she's in has a joke about autistic children as it's avatar is way out of bounds.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46207978]I was taken aback right away because that kind of nickname & steam group simply doesn't fly in our leftist social justice communities. It's the kind of thing people would call out, because they're jokes and humor that are considered ableist. This isn't related to ableism, but something similar with regard to jokes happened to me with regard to immigration. I made jokes about immigration in my first Papers, Please playthrough, and someone from SRS called me out about it in a PM and I did an annotated apology. That said, I jumped the gun with that and should not have just started posting it. That was my fault. I also am taking some of this stuff too seriously. I really should take a step back and just kind of stop getting hyped up on Twitter, because it does turn into a hugbox on there for me. So you're right.[/QUOTE] Sorry about blowing up a bit there, it's just that this is a bit close-to-home and I care strongly about it. There's some stuff I want to comment on in regards to those formalised standards in social justice, but before I do that I'm going to step away from the Internet for a bit.

[QUOTE=TheJoey;46208010]same shit goes for LITERALLY WHO except she's a hypocritical piece of shit that gets backed up by the same crowd that would denounce anyone who tells such a joke.[/QUOTE] That's really what I was trying to identify - that most leftist SJ people would probably give her a free pass while call out others - but it was wrong of me to bring it up this way. Also most of the ZQ stuff is being further divorced from GG anyway, so there's not so much of a reason for me to keep posting about her on here. Most of my posts on here in the past few days have just been "hey, look at all the shit I'm getting for my article!" which isn't really constructive to the thread tbqh. All my own stuff is going its own way and it's kind of silly of me to keep bringing it up.

[QUOTE=Denicide;46207862]I think it's certainly true that no one has built the bridges to introduce critique. Feminist Frequency, places like RPS etc. would probably be more successful if they argued first for the merit of social critique before launching into it. Should they have to, though? I mean ultimately the responsibility should lie with the viewer/reader to be informed of that. It's no big deal if they aren't and consequentially don't like a piece of videogame critique but when that triggers campaigns to remove the media it seems odd. In that case, you only have yourself to blame if you embark on a misguided crusade against it. The fact that you didn't understand is no excuse when google is open to you. On a related note: Take, for instance, the aforementioned Feminist Frequency. It's widely regurgitated that it is a "scam" by which they mean she has robbed her Kickstarter backers. The strange thing is that it isn't the backers complaining about this but people offended - or pretending to be offended - on their behalf. To me that's the kind of blind whiteknighting SJWs are accused of. To go a little further I'd apply this kind of thinking to most of the 'Gamers are Dead' articles. Here and elsewhere people complain that these writers 'insulting their readers.' Of course, the people leveling the complaints are not the readers (least of all of places like Gamasultra which is an industry site). This is all to say that I think GG people would be much happier if they simply didn't consume media they didn't like.[/QUOTE] I actually know a number of people, including myself, who are extremely pissed off about the lack of content. However, there's no real way to say it anywhere.

[QUOTE=Tamschi;46208036]Sorry about blowing up a bit there, it's just that this is a bit close-to-home and I care strongly about it. There's some stuff I want to comment on in regards to those formalised standards in social justice, but before I do that I'm going to step away from the Internet for a bit.[/QUOTE] No, I definitely needed to hear that. I have a problem with getting stuck in my hugbox and enjoying the egostroke. I need to be more firm about breaking from GG, and there's no real reason for me to keep bringing up any of the article stuff either.

Also, Reimu, you might need to step back because you're going a bit overboard with finding out shit. You've done some great work, just sit down and relax. [editline]11th October 2014[/editline] Did automerge break again?

It has it's relevance as just another example of sheer hypocrisy of people who judge us. Apparently you can punch down all you want, just as long as you never punch inward.

Either way, I blew it out of proportion and that was wrong. And, I mean, twitter has become an enormous hugbox/egostroke for me. I can post pretty much whatever and it'll get RT'd & fave'd, which is something I'm not use to at all on twitter. There is kind of a personality cult because of the articles/videos/twitlongs and I shouldn't be so receptive to that, that's exactly the kind of things that my article was complaining about in the first place.

Welcome to the wonderful world of requiring reality checks and being slapped on the back of the head.

[IMG]http://puu.sh/c8jxm/ae68e6a0fb.png[/IMG] [url]https://storify.com/MorganRamsay/how-often-do-video-game-journalists-write-about-fe[/url] link to said "study" What kind of fucking study is that? its like, well gun violence in america is low because we also include Europe and Australia. Of course its going to look minuscule when you slam in other normal game sites who are not buddy buddy with the same agenda.

[url]http://imgur.com/qNwlywW[/url] Jim is like a bull in a glass teashop complaining that people keep breaking the fine goods.

[QUOTE=Helelos;46208286][url]http://imgur.com/qNwlywW[/url] Jim is like a bull in a glass teashop complaining that people keep breaking the fine goods.[/QUOTE] It's really reaching when the latest of those is from mid 2011, though. People change in three years and I think anyone who had the misfortune to watch Jim Sterling's content back then will attest to that.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;46208251][IMG]http://puu.sh/c8jxm/ae68e6a0fb.png[/IMG] [url]https://storify.com/MorganRamsay/how-often-do-video-game-journalists-write-about-fe[/url] link to said "study" What kind of fucking study is that? its like, well gun violence in america is low because we also include Europe and Australia. Of course its going to look minuscule when you slam in other normal game sites who are not buddy buddy with the same agenda.[/QUOTE] Your analogy doesn't really work. Are normal game sites not part of video games journalism?

the study also doesnt include games that were featured only because it pushed a specific agenda, or games that were never featured or barely featured because it didn't fit the website's narrative.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46207636]I agree with Denicide. The problem isn't that video games aren't political - culture is inherently political. The problem is that gamers, developers, and gaming writers across all views are not building the bridges necessary to introduce gamers to the nuance of their critiques. One of the biggest problems right now in gaming is that SJ + non-SJ gamers have very shitty communication. Both actually have a lot in common that they can come to the table with, but the nuance gets lost very quickly. See: people villainizing Jenn Frank[/QUOTE] I feel the problem is that the SJ rhetoric in games has been more about demonizing a certain group of gamers, and more recently, gamers in general, as some sort of primal racist/misogynic/whatever evil that's much worse about SJ issues than a small town in the US South and can never be redeemed instead of finding points we can actually agree on then going from there. Instead of fostering a dialogue, it's about masturbating about how self-righteous you are for understanding those poor ~women~, ~PoC~, and ~queers~ live through pure hell while secretly being sexist/racist/abuser-enabler/whatever else that goes against SJ (ie the NeoGAF mod guy). No shit it would make people have a kneejerk reaction against SJ topics when you say that every gamer is a sexist and racist white male that needs to be crucified. The whole thing is a giant exercise in why bad-faith arguments never work and murder any chance of an actual discussion happening. The pseudo-SJ types that bitch about how against SJ people are only need to look at themselves for the reason why things like the DARPA/DiGRA conspiracy theory are floating around. You also have weiners like Jonathon McIntosh and the dude that wrote a blog on Gamasutra about how games should be "socially fulfilling" instead of being fun, who seem more interested in turning gaming into some sort of platform for La Revolucion Social or fertile ground to spread your token far-left fringe movement, like the Bay Area Anarchist movement, instead of actually addressing real problems, which further paints SJ in a bad light and makes them look like out-of-touch lunatics.

I can't understand why people like sigma lambda are intentionally being obtuse about everything related to this. I don't care if someone doesn't agree with me, but for someone who protests abuse to think it's okay that people attack all gamers for things certain people said is just beyond me.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46208491]I can't understand why people like sigma lambda are intentionally being obtuse about everything related to this. I don't care if someone doesn't agree with me, but for someone who protests abuse to think it's okay that people attack all gamers for things certain people said is just beyond me.[/QUOTE] When you see everything in black and white, struggling to see something as grey is a very, very difficult thing to do.

[QUOTE=Valnar;46208401]Your analogy doesn't really work. Are normal game sites not part of video games journalism?[/QUOTE] it does work when the highlight is a problem in certain areas, but in the study they included all of the game journalism and not just the ones being criticized to make it seem like they are not pushing the agenda. like i said, its like saying america doesn't have a gun violence problem because statistically you throw in other first world countries that have zero gun problems to make the problem look much smaller than it really is.

[QUOTE=Ziron;46208527]When you see everything in black and white, struggling to see something as grey is a very, very difficult thing to do.[/QUOTE]I'm just sick and tired of being labeled by some dumbasses who know NOTHING about me. Yeah, you don't know me, that totally makes it okay to call me a misogynistic neckbeard sporting, fedora wearing, sexist, ISIS-supporting shitlord. I'm fucking SICK of being labeled just because my hobbies include playing video games. These people throwing out blanket statements about gamers can suck my dick and fuck off to whatever hole they crawled out of. What about my sister? She casually plays games, must be a misogynistic shitlord. What about my dad? He plays games hardcore, he must be a neckbeard fedora sporting muther fucker. My mother RARELY plays games....so shes a commander at ISIS? THIS is the kind of shit that gets me so worked up about GG.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46207768]Here, let me post it. The caption says "autistic children play here." I think it's a Minecraft group? -snip- Either way, I just think that that kind of humor should be a clear line, because her public activism is [i]constantly[/i] focused on creating safe spaces that don't engage in punching down. Also, her Steam is something she seems to give out to a lot of different people, especially people she meets at cons. Even Max is on there! So I just think she should be a little more considerate, seeing how inclusive language is something she seems to be big on throughout twitter & etc.[/QUOTE] About that group, it is a group of a TF2 24/7 2fort server where I had a generally unpleasant experience with several years ago. Let's just say that they were wholly okay with it to sling all kinds of abuse to people that didn't share their views. I am kinda surprised how Zoe knows that group and why she joined it, unless it is one of those 'epik trollz' SA goon groups she seems to be fan of. It isn't like she doesn't want people to find out though. She could just set her profile to private and no-one would be the wiser over it. Hell, the profile isn't hard to find in the first place anyway, it is the account she submitted her Greenlight attempt with.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;46208540]it does work when the highlight is a problem in certain areas, but in the study they included all of the game journalism and not just the ones being criticized to make it seem like they are not pushing the agenda. like i said, its like saying america doesn't have a gun violence problem because statistically you throw in other first world countries that have zero gun problems to make the problem look much smaller than it really is.[/QUOTE] Isn't the 'point' of GG that the feminist agenda is everywhere, though? The most valid frustrations are from people who believe they don't have a games media outlet that caters to their tastes, and now you seem to be extending this further. If there are only a few sites publishing feminist critique then you're really shooting your own movement in the foot. I mean, you have no reason to visit those places and consequentially they don't harm you in any way.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46208078]No, I definitely needed to hear that. I have a problem with getting stuck in my hugbox and enjoying the egostroke. I need to be more firm about breaking from GG, and there's no real reason for me to keep bringing up any of the article stuff either.[/QUOTE] I've said it before. You're not doing a good job breaking away from GG when you keep bringing up Zoe Quinn in the [I]Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread.[/I]

[QUOTE=Denicide;46208761]Isn't the 'point' of GG that the feminist agenda is everywhere, though? The most valid frustrations are from people who believe they don't have a games media outlet that caters to their tastes, and now you seem to be extending this further. If there are only a few sites publishing feminist critique then you're really shooting your own movement in the foot. I mean, you have no reason to visit those places and consequentially they don't harm you in any way.[/QUOTE] the point of GG is to remove the circlejerking that is going on with mainstream game journalists and to remove the censorship due to their agenda. The guilty ones are in that group, but they throw in non affiliated ones in to act like its not a big deal. they are few sites, but they are the largest compared to others.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;46208807]I've said it before. You're not doing a good job breaking away from GG when you keep bringing up Zoe Quinn in the [I]Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread.[/I][/QUOTE] Well, after everything today, I'm going to stop posting about Zoe Quinn in here altogether & I'm going to be more openly critical of GG on twitter. The problem I have though is that I don't know where else to go to talk about these things. Pretty much everywhere is an echo chamber now. [QUOTE=Jordax;46208622]About that group, it is a group of a TF2 24/7 2fort server where I had a generally unpleasant experience with several years ago. Let's just say that they were wholly okay with it to sling all kinds of abuse to people that didn't share their views. I am kinda surprised how Zoe knows that group and why she joined it, unless it is one of those 'epik trollz' SA goon groups she seems to be fan of. It isn't like she doesn't want people to find out though. She could just set her profile to private and no-one would be the wiser over it. Hell, the profile isn't hard to find in the first place anyway, it is the account she submitted her Greenlight attempt with.[/QUOTE] In all honesty, though, a lot of people join Steam groups and never interact with them at all. I use to have a bunch of /v/ groups in my profile all the way up to 2014. Some of them were really shitty places, but I just let them sit there and never interacted with them at all. Plus, that group is pretty big, and some people don't even look through a Steam group's profile before joining.

[QUOTE=Reimu;46208878]Well, after everything today, I'm going to stop posting about Zoe Quinn in here altogether & I'm going to be more openly critical of GG on twitter. The problem I have though is that I don't know where else to go to talk about these things. Pretty much everywhere is an echo chamber now.[/QUOTE] That was something I was thinking of as I posted, and I don't know how to help you there either. People only care about Zoe Quinn within the context of GG. I don't think you'll ever be able to disassociate yourself and her from GG. [editline]11th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Reimu;46208878]In all honesty, though, a lot of people join Steam groups and never interact with them at all. I use to have a bunch of /v/ groups in my profile all the way up to 2014. Some of them were really shitty places, but I just let them sit there and never interacted with them at all. Plus, that group is pretty big, and some people don't even look through a Steam group's profile before joining.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't really put it past her to be actively participating with goon squad.