Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread. - General

For those who haven't seen it yet (and want to have a good laugh), here's the part of King of Pol's stream where the MSNBC report aired: [video=youtube;5LtQSm3eKjU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LtQSm3eKjU[/video]

Guys help. I'm having a bit of a debate on Facebook with a former game industry colleague and he cited [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/13/gamergate-right-wing-no-neutral-stance"]this article[/URL] as an example of how shitty #GamerGate is and says that the [URL="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F9icbZbVXbl1-BJ0EsPJn2jIMplqrgLJCBEi4SG4ntw/edit"]central ops archive[/URL] is a "fun example of asshats" the rest of #GG should detach from. What do I say? What do I do? Too tired and stressed over unrelated things to think straight.

[QUOTE=GuitarMonkey;46230240]Guys help. I'm having a bit of a debate on Facebook with a former game industry colleague and he cited [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/13/gamergate-right-wing-no-neutral-stance"]this article[/URL] as an example of how shitty #GamerGate is and says that the [URL="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F9icbZbVXbl1-BJ0EsPJn2jIMplqrgLJCBEi4SG4ntw/edit"]central ops archive[/URL] is a "fun example of asshats" the rest of #GG should detach from. What do I say? What do I do? Too tired and stressed over unrelated things to think straight.[/QUOTE] Every open group has trolls. There's the same shit on the antigamergate side. Distancing to a new tag would just bring these people along, divide, and solve nothing. Additionally, there are people on the A-GG side pretending to be these asshats, for example Brianna Wu. You can cite relevant stuff if you want.

[QUOTE=GuitarMonkey;46230240]Guys help. I'm having a bit of a debate on Facebook with a former game industry colleague and he cited [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/13/gamergate-right-wing-no-neutral-stance"]this article[/URL] as an example of how shitty #GamerGate is and says that the [URL="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F9icbZbVXbl1-BJ0EsPJn2jIMplqrgLJCBEi4SG4ntw/edit"]central ops archive[/URL] is a "fun example of asshats" the rest of #GG should detach from. What do I say? What do I do? Too tired and stressed over unrelated things to think straight.[/QUOTE] Show the poll of the political leaning of the average pro-GG. Found it: [img]https://cirsova.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/7e1.png[/img]

There is so much evidence that supports the gamergate side over the anti gamergate one that i don't know how people can even defend them. Jesus Christ, these people really are indoctrinated.

[QUOTE=Tamschi;46227401]But liberal isn't even "left", unless those labels are really different for you on the other side of the Atlantic. Usually the most right-wing party in German parliament is also (one of) the most liberal here.[/QUOTE] IIRC is often varies even from country to country.

[QUOTE=Ithon;46229854] also BBC radio program. [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series...s#playepisode1[/url] BBC business matters Oct 14, oil prices pluge at 17:30ish. Better then MSN but can be painful to listen too. One person did mention the bad situation with the games journalist.[/QUOTE] Link's borked. That was much nicer to listen to than the MSNBC's shitfest. The first guy was close minded as hell and throwing generalizations everywhere, but the woman and the host did have a good neutral stance on the matter, especially as people who probably don't experience the video game culture that heavily.

[QUOTE=GuitarMonkey;46230240]Guys help. I'm having a bit of a debate on Facebook with a former game industry colleague and he cited [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/13/gamergate-right-wing-no-neutral-stance"]this article[/URL] as an example of how shitty #GamerGate is and says that the [URL="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F9icbZbVXbl1-BJ0EsPJn2jIMplqrgLJCBEi4SG4ntw/edit"]central ops archive[/URL] is a "fun example of asshats" the rest of #GG should detach from. What do I say? What do I do? Too tired and stressed over unrelated things to think straight.[/QUOTE] That article is just pure baloney. It simplifies the issues as hatred towards women, it completely ignores the attempts at having a dialogue from people like thekingofpol and Milo, it ignores the #notyourshield movement, and it claims that the inflammatory members of gamersgate represents the majority. Oh and it doesn't even take a look at the actual problems put forward by the reasonable people of gamersgate. The central ops archive link is pretty funny though.

[QUOTE=Da Vinci3;46230453]There is so much evidence that supports the gamergate side over the anti gamergate one that i don't know how people can even defend them. Jesus Christ, these people really are indoctrinated.[/QUOTE] The issue with SJ is there is one narrative and if you're not with it you're against it. Meanwhile on the GG side, if you look at that graph posted above, you'll notice the proGG respondants are almost entirely libertarian. This means that a black and white forced narrative would have never flown anyway, let alone in such a direct attack. I bet if you could look back at all the conversations had in various places by various people, you'd see that both the fight for journalistic integrity and the fight against SJWs jamming their shit down our throats was a LONG time coming, and it really is the nature of gamers and gaming that made this inevitable. Now the only question to ask is are people like this attracted to gaming or does gaming make them that way? I bet that like most things, it's a bit of both. I mean would it surprise anyone that libertarians enjoy the personal agency games offer? No other media format has that; gaming is unique. It's very difficult to focus on the ethics problem when this is being framed as a culture war, but that can't be helped because it really is one.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;46230735] It's very difficult to focus on the ethics problem when this is being framed as a culture war, but that can't be helped because it really is one.[/QUOTE] It is not a culture war, it is an information war, journalists know this and are using tactics to make sure they come out on top. If it was a culture war it would have stemmed from a collaborative of people, this is nothing but individuals trying to see who can get the most attention and push their own agenda in a political sense, if they [I]actually[/I] cared about feminism otherwise, as stated many times before, they would have committed to real solutions rather then attempting to grab more attention to [I]themselves[/I] instead of highlighting issues and offering solutions. They are attempting to censor proper information and cherry-pick others in order to push their own agenda. You should rather be asking, who is in your face here? Who started this? Who is on the offensive? Who is pushing the envelope? When deciding who to pick instead of listening to any one person or news site or whomever, and if you do follow that sense, your going to quickly find yourself heading to one side. If it was a culture war, we could draw the line, but nobody can because of the individualistic nature of one side. If you think this is a culture war then journalists have succeeded in their goals, and it'll be years or maybe months before we are able to raise enough attention to the issue again.

[QUOTE=27X;46229230]Bad reading for you. I can because he doesn't call people directly. There's been instances where he literally knows the identity of a person in a company giving him shit, and he still refers to the company. It happened with Day One, it happened with EA and it happened with Microsoft, it happened with several people calling him "rapey" and a "cismonger", he says this directly in the first kingofpol-cast. People going off their own company's policy and handing out shit need to be called on it directly, that's part of the entire problem. I'm not talking about him saying to someone "wrong, that's false" in a podcast, I'm talking his refusal to call people on their direct antagonism towards him and gamers/gaming in general, especially when he knows who they are, and that the company they work for would likely fire their ass for being a dick. Sterling's the same way. "Everybody gets an opinion" only works when the opinion isn't LOLNOFUCKYOUCISRAPIST and is actually based on things like recognizable patterns, facts and perhaps even, just maybe, some goddamn common fucking sense.[/QUOTE] Its very unprofessional for someone in TBs standings to call out an individual. His voice is influential and widespread and making the attack on a singular person would just bring hell to that person. Its not his job to call out a single person, thats our jobs. Its his job to bring attention to the right places. Hes not being a pussy willow, hes just not being a huge asshole and not stooping down to there levels of calling a single person out. Also the companys are the root of the problem, they are the ones paying shitty people to do/say shitty things.

[QUOTE=27X;46229230] Sterling's the same way. [/QUOTE] Jim Sterling is a hypocrite to censorship and only wishes to further himself in the industry by using controversial issues in games to his advantage. He tells you what you want to hear (you are probably in the largest demographic of his audience,) and not what his actual opinions on the matter are. Which is why when gamersgate started, he did a 360* turn not once, not twice, but three times (look at his videos/tweets/) during this so far. Totalbiscut isn't like this because he gives his opinion on the matter and that's it. He doesn't directly support gamersgate and would rather talk about journalism in itself, hes being pulled into it by threats and outcry. Jim Sterling doesn't have that happen to him because he caters to everyone.

[QUOTE=Pennywise;46228258]I just realized how interesting the curator rankings are when you actually sit down and compare them to each other instead of by flat rank. [url=http://store.steampowered.com/curator/1370293-Cynical-Brit-Gaming/]Cynical Brit[/url] is apparently the most legit reviewer ever, beating out literally everyone [url=http://store.steampowered.com/curator/33526-Rock-Paper-Shotgun/]The entirety of Rock Paper Shotgun[/url] does not equal [url=http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6856736-The-Jim-Sterling-Collection/]one Jim Sterling[/url] or [url=http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6858960-The-Nerd%C2%B3-Boxset/]a cubed Nerd[/url], and is just managing to inch ahead of [url=http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6863163-The-Cox-List/]Jesse Cox[/url] [url=http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6859357-Boogie2988%27s-Games/]Boogie[/url] is worth approximately 3.33 [url=http://store.steampowered.com/curator/27-NeoGAF/]NeoGAFs[/url] [url=http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6857089-Double-Fine-Productions/]Double Fine[/url], [url=http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6856988-Giant-Bomb-Staff/]Giant Bomb[/url] and [url=http://store.steampowered.com/curator/9869-IGN/]IGN[/url] are all playing catch-up with [url=http://store.steampowered.com/curator/6861215-Hodor-Review/]Hodor[/url][/QUOTE] I think this goes to highlight part of the reason why this fight has been going on for so long. At least as far as these Steam rankings go, single dudes on YouTube are more popular than legit online publications that have been around for years. Just like how gaming magazines mostly died out in the 00s, gaming websites are beginning to be supplanted by YouTubers. These publications are fighting to maintain power, legitimacy, and relevancy. If they lose here, they lose everything.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;46231066]I think this goes to highlight part of the reason why this fight has been going on for so long. At least as far as these Steam rankings go, single dudes on YouTube are more popular than legit online publications that have been around for years. Just like how gaming magazines mostly died out in the 00s, gaming websites are beginning to be supplanted by YouTubers. These publications are fighting to maintain power, legitimacy, and relevancy. If they lose here, they lose everything.[/QUOTE] In the bigger picture, this whole controversy probably doesn't mean much. It mostly just means bad press for them. They will die, very soon, and they (and we) cannot stop it. They will straggle around for a bit though, so be prepared for sites such as metacritic to take the few/steam/any game wanting to plaster review scores on their box (My guess - IGN/RPS/PCGN/POLY will survive,) reviews seriously.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/NHPyZGQ.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Helelos;46231274][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NHPyZGQ.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Oh Anthony, you are REALLY not good at adding moral messages to games and making them not sound preachy as fuck. Perhaps writing sermons for evangelical Christian pastors would be more your style?

[QUOTE=Helelos;46231274][img]http://i.imgur.com/NHPyZGQ.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] "Brevity is the soul of wit"- Writer from the 1500s

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;46231344]"Brevity is the soul of wit"- Writer from the 1500s[/QUOTE] And look where his smartness led him, he died. Obviously a person of no authority. No comparison to the great mind of our times that is Anthony. No sir. Also ask mods to delete a couple of [i]obviously less important[/i] threads, so our one doesn't go off the page?

Its going to come off anyway, its really easy to fix the sorting.

[QUOTE=gudman;46231508]And look where his smartness led him, he died. Obviously a person of no authority. No comparison to the great mind of our times that is Anthony. No sir. Also ask mods to delete a couple of [i]obviously less important[/i] threads, so our one doesn't go off the page?[/QUOTE] I think the entire point of this thread being put in GD was so it wouldnt always be on the front page like it would have been if it stayed in SH.

[QUOTE=gudman;46231508]And look where his smartness led him, he died. Obviously a person of no authority. No comparison to the great mind of our times that is Anthony. No sir. Why not make a new thread once this one leaves the front page? It's nearly at 170 pages as is. Also ask mods to delete a couple of [i]obviously less important[/i] threads, so our one doesn't go off the page?[/QUOTE] Why not remake the thread?

this thread is constantly high up in popular threads so I don't think it moving off page 1 of GD matters much

[QUOTE=Ziron;46231324]Oh Anthony, you are REALLY not good at adding moral messages to games and making them not sound preachy as fuck. Perhaps writing sermons for evangelical Christian pastors would be more your style?[/QUOTE] Hell, my pastor is less preachy then this, and we're baptist.

Pro-gamergate are not allowed on the huffington post show because they are biased. And Brianna isn't. My mind. [url]http://www.hitbox.tv/kingofpol[/url] He's going to stream it here.

[QUOTE=Mecha Pirate;46231948]Pro-gamergate are not allowed on the huffington post show because they are biased. And Brianna isn't. My mind. [/QUOTE] That's so ironic you could iron your clothes with it. Unreal.

[QUOTE=Highwind017;46231968]That's so ironic you could iron your clothes with it. Unreal.[/QUOTE] You could iron it so graphically you'd get Unreal Engine 5. I know this was bad. It's just the irony set me on fire.

[QUOTE=Mecha Pirate;46231948][url]http://www.hitbox.tv/kingofpol[/url].[/QUOTE] It's starting!

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;46230890]It is not a culture war, it is an information war, journalists know this and are using tactics to make sure they come out on top. If it was a culture war it would have stemmed from a collaborative of people, this is nothing but individuals trying to see who can get the most attention and push their own agenda in a political sense, if they [I]actually[/I] cared about feminism otherwise, as stated many times before, they would have committed to real solutions rather then attempting to grab more attention to [I]themselves[/I] instead of highlighting issues and offering solutions. They are attempting to censor proper information and cherry-pick others in order to push their own agenda. You should rather be asking, who is in your face here? Who started this? Who is on the offensive? Who is pushing the envelope? When deciding who to pick instead of listening to any one person or news site or whomever, and if you do follow that sense, your going to quickly find yourself heading to one side. If it was a culture war, we could draw the line, but nobody can because of the individualistic nature of one side. If you think this is a culture war then journalists have succeeded in their goals, and it'll be years or maybe months before we are able to raise enough attention to the issue again.[/QUOTE] I see what you mean, it's a really good point. I can't help but think that because of Zoe/Anita we'd be fighting the SJWs regardless of the actions of journalists. Maybe we're really fighting an info and a culture war at the same time...?

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;46232154]I see what you mean, it's a really good point. I can't help but think that because of Zoe/Anita we'd be fighting the SJWs regardless of the actions of journalists. Maybe we're really fighting an info and a culture war at the same time...?[/QUOTE] Most people wouldn't have any problem with SJWs if their shit wasn't shoved down our throat by the very journalists we're having problems with. There wouldn't be a lot of Anita if she wasn't covered as much, if the flaws in her arguments and her... business practices were talked about in the media. The media can give people shit. They've proven that tens of times over in this debacle alone. But some people, for whatever reason there is (and I don't believe in honest agreement and alignment when it comes to media), are completely free from criticism. And that's the problem. That's why Anita&Co became an annoying problem they became.

Hotwheels (8chan admin) is on the Huffingpost Post right now. This might not actually be that bad.