Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread. - General

[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;46480163][img]http://i.imgur.com/xCv54UW.png[/img] These people are insane[/QUOTE] PR suicide is a go!

So uh, how did #OPPostLewds start and why have I seen some people associate it with GamerGate?

[url]https://archive.today/sqNku[/url]

[QUOTE=Wii60;46480746][url]https://archive.today/sqNku[/url][/QUOTE] Oh shit son, it's on

Can you quote or tl;dr? I can't seem to access archive.today links.

[QUOTE=catbarf;46480827]Can you quote or tl;dr? I can't seem to access archive.today links.[/QUOTE] arthur chu [QUOTE]Wait it's phrased badly but is "Sexism is a bigger deal in our total history than anti-semitism" controversial now? WTF[/QUOTE] liana k [QUOTE]@arthur_affect you're being insensitive. Stop it. Don't compare injustices. Sincerely, a Jewish woman. (aka me) #notyourshield.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;46479773]You have to remember, the cases of which women playing games and moving onto the industry and being harassed are low, usually the reason they are harassed is because they are very vocal about a trivial (or, rarely) major issue. Why don't we see more women in games then? The reason is simple : "Girl" or "Womanly" things are advertised to them at a young age - it is hard for a girl to get into video-games when advertising in movies, books, and basically everything dictates video-games as a "Boy" thing to do. If you want to go into it scientifically and statistically, girls generally have more patience and develop at a younger age, while boys find it harder to concentrate in school and prefer more going on, with exceptions to both causes, this is what it is like for many people. "Hardcore" gaming can be considered anything really. It's a vague term. I think what he is trying to defer it as "People who play a lot of games and spend most of their life doing so." Not "Call of duty e-sports fans." Call of duty does have a problem harassing females - but you have to remember that those people are almost ALWAYS under 18 years of age, simply because COD is marketed towards that age group. Needless to say, toxic communities do not represent all of gaming - most of us I think we can say we are "hardcore" gamers and in this particular community we do not harass females and even have a mod who is a female. Advertisers push male related videogame concepts because the demographic of people who play videogames ARE male. If I am trying to make lode-a-money, I am probably going to advertise to appease the overwhelming large demographic, not the minority one. So I disagree with you. Here's an article to help understand what's going on : [URL]http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbeswomanfiles/2013/01/18/women-and-video-gamings-dirty-little-secrets/[/URL] (Great read, btw, written in 2013) [I][/I][/QUOTE] "Hardcore" being super vague really doesn't help. But I'm sure if you asked people what they consider a "hardcore" game to be, CoD would be up there. Even if the definition would be better for "anyone who plays lots of games because they enjoy them". But this stigma of the normal 'online player harasses girl player' does still happen quite a bit in some games, usually by kids or fucking idiots, and that rubs off on the rest of us (annoyingly). And again, just because this particular community works well as an example of one that isn't full of total shitwads, doesn't mean the problem is non-existent or barely worth attention. Girls who don't get stalked and shit seem to be the ones that nobody realises are girls still, private chats like Vent and that are pretty damn helpful for avoiding most of the asshats in online games. But as gudman said, the gender gap is rapidly shrinking and/or switching around. Advertising games as "dudebro guyshooter 5000 with extra testosterone" is ignoring a bit of your market, a noticeable bit of your market. It doesn't have to be flowery and all that bullshit because that's also just as bad. The CoD series itself doesn't even do that when playing, you can play as women now after all, a lot more inclusive. But the advertising for shooters still focuses a ton on the male users when I [B]know[/B] that female users are pretty damn numerous now. (I know you fixed the error in your numbers later, but this is still a worthwhile point I think) You're free to disagree with me, but at least keep your mind open and consider that maybe these issues are still around and don't handwave them away instantly. They aren't as obvious as they were 10, 5 or even a single damn year ago, we're nearly there when it comes to fixing them now. But they aren't gone. (and I wasn't talking about developers so that's not massively relevant, I know the industry itself is pretty damn accepting of female devs, the dumber players still need to reach that point though. Besides the Twedizzle wasn't talking about industry) [editline]13th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Wii60;46480838]arthur chu liana k[/QUOTE] huh. this could be fun.

is this true [img]http://i.imgur.com/XnZUZyk.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46480998]"Hardcore" being super vague really doesn't help. But I'm sure if you asked people what they consider a "hardcore" game to be, CoD would be up there. Even if the definition would be better for "anyone who plays lots of games because they enjoy them". But this stigma of the normal 'online player harasses girl player' does still happen quite a bit in some games, usually by kids or fucking idiots, and that rubs off on the rest of us (annoyingly). And again, just because this particular community works well as an example of one that isn't full of total shitwads, doesn't mean the problem is non-existent or barely worth attention. Girls who don't get stalked and shit seem to be the ones that nobody realises are girls still, private chats like Vent and that are pretty damn helpful for avoiding most of the asshats in online games. But as gudman said, the gender gap is rapidly shrinking and/or switching around. Advertising games as "dudebro guyshooter 5000 with extra testosterone" is ignoring a bit of your market, a noticeable bit of your market. It doesn't have to be flowery and all that bullshit because that's also just as bad. The CoD series itself doesn't even do that when playing, you can play as women now after all, a lot more inclusive. But the advertising for shooters still focuses a ton on the male users when I [B]know[/B] that female users are pretty damn numerous now. (I know you fixed the error in your numbers later, but this is still a worthwhile point I think) You're free to disagree with me, but at least keep your mind open and consider that maybe these issues are still around and don't handwave them away instantly. They aren't as obvious as they were 10, 5 or even a single damn year ago, we're nearly there when it comes to fixing them now. But they aren't gone. (and I wasn't talking about developers so that's not massively relevant, I know the industry itself is pretty damn accepting of female devs, the dumber players still need to reach that point though. Besides the Twedizzle wasn't talking about industry) [editline]13th November 2014[/editline] huh. this could be fun.[/QUOTE] I'm really starting to hate the term dudebro. What the hell does that even mean? What change in advertising are you looking for, exactly?

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46481125]I'm really starting to hate the term dudebro. What the hell does that even mean? What change in advertising are you looking for, exactly?[/QUOTE] Dudebro is pretty well defined man. You see those dudes over there? Throwing the words "bro", "brah", "cuz", around like no tomorrow talking about how wasted they were and how many chicks they banged (including "ur mom loel")? That's the dudebro. Obnoxious assholes basically. With short attention spans if advertising is anything to go by. And I don't have those answers, I'm not an advertiser. But things trying to look turbo-edgy/ deep when it's just shooting guys and shit is starting to get really boring.

[url]http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2m6l68/kop_streaming_with_geordie_tait_now/[/url] KOP get's Geordie Tait, how, should I pay attention, a reddit comment summed it up but is it really Geordie Tait.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46481163]Dudebro is pretty well defined man. You see those dudes over there? Throwing the words "bro", "brah", "cuz", around like no tomorrow talking about how wasted they were and how many chicks they banged (including "ur mom loel")? That's the dudebro. Obnoxious assholes basically. With short attention spans if advertising is anything to go by. And I don't have those answers, I'm not an advertiser. But things trying to look turbo-edgy/ deep when it's just shooting guys and shit is starting to get really boring.[/QUOTE] See, that's the thing. I don't actually see many people like that in videogames. In fact, I hardly see people like that anywhere. And I don't see how advertising is targeting obnoxious people who talk about sex a lot. I feel like this is a stereotype that's been ripped from college comedy movies and doesn't actually have all that much basis in reality. and even if it was how is being turbo edgy targeting that audience why would "dudebros" be into stuff that pretends to be "deep"(which is something I also don't quite get)

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46481242]See, that's the thing. I don't actually see many people like that in videogames. In fact, I hardly see people like that anywhere. And I don't see how advertising is targeting obnoxious people who talk about sex a lot. I feel like this is a stereotype that's been ripped from college comedy movies and doesn't actually have all that much basis in reality. and even if it was how is being turbo edgy targeting that audience why would "dudebros" be into stuff that pretends to be "deep"(which is something I also don't quite get)[/QUOTE] If you play games on the 360, usually you'll come across at least one a night on VoIP, chatting massive amounts of shit and just generally being insufferable. Dunno if it's just my area being full of this specific kind of shithead or what, but I kept running into these kinds of people on matchmaking for various games. Or you'll overhear them on a bus sometimes if you get unlucky. It's not entirely made up, but it is pretty exaggerated. They are still super fucking annoying however. Advertising doesn't have to be about sex to target that specific audience.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46481298]If you play games on the 360, usually you'll come across at least one a night on VoIP, chatting massive amounts of shit and just generally being insufferable. Dunno if it's just my area being full of this specific kind of shithead or what, but I kept running into these kinds of people on matchmaking for various games. Or you'll overhear them on a bus sometimes if you get unlucky. It's not entirely made up, but it is pretty exaggerated. They are still super fucking annoying however. Advertising doesn't have to be about sex to target that specific audience.[/QUOTE] again, how is "edgy" or "2deep4u" advertising targeting that specific audience? How would they change their advertising to [I]not[/I] target that audience? and while we're at it what in the fuck does "deep" even mean

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46481163] And I don't have those answers, I'm not an advertiser. But things trying to look turbo-edgy/ deep when it's just shooting guys and shit is starting to get really boring.[/QUOTE] BF4's campaign basically. And that was massively advertised along with multiplayer, which is pretty telling.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46481385]again, how is "edgy" or "2deep4u" advertising targeting that specific audience? How would they change their advertising to [I]not[/I] target that audience? and while we're at it what in the fuck does "deep" even mean[/QUOTE] Okay. I'm pretty sure you're just being obtuse for no reason now. "deep" is also pretty well understood. Games having real meanings, trying to actually trigger proper emotional responses and attempting to get the player to think about things. There aren't many shooters that actually manage anything like this, and for some reason the CoD series (easiest example I can think of) has been trying to do this itself with dramatic deaths of characters that are impossible to become attached too, hamfisted attempts at commentary on the state of the US military, awful attempts at "twists". If the games weren't taking themselves seriously this would be pretty fun, but only the Black Ops series seems to have realised that you keep that tongue firmly in that cheek if you want to get away with hilariously bad commentary and shit. [editline]13th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=gudman;46481456]BF4's campaign basically.[/QUOTE] p. much. Mostly all modern military shooters are guilty of this. Tons of other games too but I'm not really too fussed about thinking of hard examples right now.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46481460] p. much. Mostly all modern military shooters are guilty of this. Tons of other games too but I'm not really too fussed about thinking of hard examples right now.[/QUOTE] CoD ghosts was pretty edgy. And not just shooters too. Racing games even. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7swQwSdQu4[/media] And that's not even shooting dudes. It's driving shiny cars.

Not sure if anyone has posted this yet. [img]http://i.imgur.com/xon2qAR.png[/img] [url]https://archive.today/9JlKt[/url] [url]https://archive.today/O1sQS[/url] [url]https://archive.today/YzFdQ[/url]

[QUOTE=Wii60;46480746][url]https://archive.today/sqNku[/url][/QUOTE] Liana K is lightning, rain transformed

[QUOTE=Thlis;46481582]Not sure if anyone has posted this yet. [img]http://i.imgur.com/xon2qAR.png[/img] [url]https://archive.today/9JlKt[/url] [url]https://archive.today/O1sQS[/url] [url]https://archive.today/YzFdQ[/url][/QUOTE] really wish we had a rekt rating.

Twitter is aweful . How does condeming death threats equal deflection,I want to call troll on this because I don't think anyone can be that stupid but I've been proven wrong before.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;46481460]Okay. I'm pretty sure you're just being obtuse for no reason now. "deep" is also pretty well understood. Games having real meanings, trying to actually trigger proper emotional responses and attempting to get the player to think about things. There aren't many shooters that actually manage anything like this, and for some reason the CoD series (easiest example I can think of) has been trying to do this itself with dramatic deaths of characters that are impossible to become attached too, hamfisted attempts at commentary on the state of the US military, awful attempts at "twists". If the games weren't taking themselves seriously this would be pretty fun, but only the Black Ops series seems to have realised that you keep that tongue firmly in that cheek if you want to get away with hilariously bad commentary and shit. [editline]13th November 2014[/editline] p. much. Mostly all modern military shooters are guilty of this. Tons of other games too but I'm not really too fussed about thinking of hard examples right now.[/QUOTE] I don't see what poor writing has to do with catering to "dudebros". I don't see how it has anything to do with gender either. are women somehow more offput than men by poorly executed plot twists or something and what the hell is a "real" meaning? are there games with fake meanings? Has there ever been a content creator who made something that wasn't meant to elicit an emotional response? or are they just not eliciting "proper" emotional responses, in which case what is a "proper" emotional response yeah super edgy "im brekkin the law because tyler durden was right hur hur" shit is dumb but I don't see what it has to do with excluding women

[QUOTE=JesseR92;46481840]Twitter is aweful . How does condeming death threats equal deflection,I want to call troll on this because I don't think anyone can be that stupid but I've been proven wrong before.[/QUOTE] These people are Olympic level mental gymnasts. Donating to charity is "weaponising charity", if you aren't a white man you're either a liar or a sockpuppet, if you ask a question you're a harasser.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46482071]I don't see what poor writing has to do with catering to "dudebros". I don't see how it has anything to do with gender either. are women somehow more offput than men by poorly executed plot twists or something and what the hell is a "real" meaning? are there games with fake meanings? Has there ever been a content creator who made something that wasn't meant to elicit an emotional response? or are they just not eliciting "proper" emotional responses, in which case what is a "proper" emotional response yeah super edgy "im brekkin the law because tyler durden was right hur hur" shit is dumb but I don't see what it has to do with excluding women[/QUOTE] The point is all wrong, its the gameplay that actually caters to dudebros. Look at CoD, noone gives a single shit about single player.

[QUOTE=G-Strogg;46482139]The point is all wrong, its the gameplay that actually caters to dudebros. Look at CoD, noone gives a single shit about single player.[/QUOTE] REZ HD aside how could gameplay ever possibly be gender specific

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46482167]REZ HD aside how could gameplay ever possibly be gender specific[/QUOTE] Literally isn't.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46482167]REZ HD aside how could gameplay ever possibly be gender specific[/QUOTE] It's not so much the gameplay as the general aesthetic. Obviously it's not [I]actually[/I] gender-specific, in the same way that Lynx isn't specific to men, nor is Dove specific to women. But the two primary genders are pigeonholed into having to act a certain way and like certain things according to whatever society thinks is a good idea, and men are conditioned to think that EXPLOSIONS and LOTS OF LOUD NOISES and FIGHTING THE TERRORISTS FOR THE FREEDOM OF THE WORLD is the bee's knees. Personally I don't really think that a game can be made for a certain gender, but it can certainly be marketed with the aim of only getting one's attention.

I actually kind of enjoy that type of videogame (the explosions and such). for all the shit that cod/bf gets I still play them and have quite a bit of fun. though as far as "deep" story goes I think games like brothers in arms did it the best. each character was different and while some might accuse them of using tropes or cliched stereotypes I know real people with very similar characteristics and that's fine. not everyone needs to feel like they need to be a special snowflake.

[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46482381]It's not so much the gameplay as the general aesthetic. Obviously it's not [I]actually[/I] gender-specific, in the same way that Lynx isn't specific to men, nor is Dove specific to women. But the two primary genders are pigeonholed into having to act a certain way and like certain things according to whatever society thinks is a good idea, and men are conditioned to think that EXPLOSIONS and LOTS OF LOUD NOISES and FIGHTING THE TERRORISTS FOR THE FREEDOM OF THE WORLD is the bee's knees. Personally I don't really think that a game can be made for a certain gender, but it can certainly be marketed with the aim of only getting one's attention.[/QUOTE] Maybe the people making these things aren't making them the way they are because they want to target men, they're making them that way because they want to target people who like action and explosions and fast cars. And those people just happen to be men. And personally I don't feel like I was ever pressured into my current tastes by society. People have looked down on me for liking violent, loud, and edgy media just as much as they've looked down on me for liking romantic, personal, and "girly" media. But that's just me.

The military is inherently masculine, particularly the pointy end of the stick that consists of 99% of the military games on the market. Like someone said earlier, dudebros don't really care about the plot of the game or when it tries to be edgy. They think Call of Duty is cool because its an easy to pick up and play game that emulates the action movie military fantasy incredibly well. A fantasy that appeals to men because men, far far more than women, are represented in militarized conflict.