Corruption in gaming journalism discussion and update thread.
15,084 replies, posted
[quote=Steele92]If I made a game and someone asked about the sexuality of a character who isn't defined sexuality-wise i'd just say they're gay if you want them to be [/quote]
i think andrew hussie said the same thing about race and homestuck characters and tumblr literally made him give up on ever having a blog of any kind after dogpiling the shit out of him.
~*~how problematic~*~
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46490416]
Buffalo Bill (not actually transgender but seen by many as such), serial killer
[/QUOTE]
I resent that accusation.
[QUOTE=Wii60;46490738][url]https://medium.com/@cainejw/dishonesty-feminist-frequency-part-2-damsels-in-distress-pt-1-2309ce61c2a5[/url]
the anal pain train continues[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Concurrently, we have covered before, patriarchy is not a game. It is a system. It is a social phenomenon. It is a construct named and identified by feminists and critical theorists to describe events they described as oppressive to women. Descriptions that patriarchy is a game and women are a ball are, in fact, objectifying women as it demands that listeners and consumers consider women as items merely to be used by others.
I’ve heard it said that in the game of patriarchy, women are the ball. Well, that is if you are willing to see women as, and think of women as, objects in the first place.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
Supporters of McIntosh and Sarkeesian continue to maintain that the work is not academic and that it’s akin to a work of fiction.
They may be more correct than they thought.[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;LG_f1GzmwHo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG_f1GzmwHo[/video]
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;46490871]Personally, I think just sticking a character in and saying 'Yeah, btw they're gay' is the way to do it. If somebody includes a brown-haired character, nobody expects them to act in a certain way just because they have brown hair. I think it should be the same thing with somebody who has black skin or is gay, because in real life gay people don't 'act gay', they act however they want, which sometimes happens to be in a way society perceives as gay. Obviously, if a character's features would be significant in that story's universe then you'll have to make use of it, but I think there's a difference between introducing a token character for ~diversity~ and just having a cast that isn't all white, straight, cis people.[/QUOTE]
If sexual orientation is important to a story or game then yeah, having a character eventually state "I'm gay" is probably the simplest and best way to go about introducing their sexuality towards the development of the character or plot. If you're writing a gay character like a flaming homosexual to show off how diverse a writer you are, you may not be as diverse as you think you are.
I think the key thing with minority characters is that they don't make it feel tokenistic or pandering towards that specific miniory the character is. F:NV did it well; two companions were gay, but it is only a small part of who they are instead of them just screaming "I'M A BIG OL' FAGGOT THAT LIKES TAKING IT IN THE ASS/GETTING SCISSORED!" like the writer was trying to gain "good LGBT ally" points instead of making a good character.
However, if say, the next Quake game had the main character be a transgender black woman, then I'd roll my eyes because that's blatant pandering. The character could be anything because the main character in a Quake game has zero personality, but making them a transgender black woman would blatantly feel like they were trying to pander towards Tumblr users and transgender people instead of making an interesting character.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;46491154]I resent that accusation.[/QUOTE]
bahahahah
that's fucking gold
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;46491154]I resent that accusation.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry for any upset this may have caused. To my knowledge, you have thus far not locked any women in cellars and forced them to rub lotion on their skin.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kC7s7tfaEc[/media]
he says he leans on anti-gg, but says it's insane he was included as pro-gg harasser in the CBC segment.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;46479710]Keep in mind he mentioned the "hardcore" gaming communities. So things like your CoD and ~esports~ oriented games that do have a noticeably smaller female user base. And do still have a problem with toxic assholes harrasing female players (thankfully this has dropped a lot in the last few years). They are still pretty heavily male oriented, almost all the content and advertising for shooters makes them look like "you are muscular mcdudebro with his crew of Bros. Save the world and be gruff". And sure, some female gamers don't give a shit and play it because the actual game might not be like that. But the advertising and shit pushes the " manly for MEN" angle a ton.
Just because there are exceptions of women playing these and then maybe moving into industry does not mean the issues are long gone or anything. You're naieve to believe such a thing.[/QUOTE]
I know this is super late, but i'm catching back up in the thread and this caught my eye.
I used to play a fair amount of Call of Duty. I've only ever run into a few females playing, which corroborates your small-female-base statement, but every time the female would get on the mic, all of the other guys with mics would be clamoring and climbing over each other for her attention, and on the off chance that someone called her a bitch or something, everyone else would immediately adjust fire and bitch him out, typically forcing him to leave the lobby. Same thing would happen in Halo 3. Most of the time, the female players weren't all that great (though there were some who would blow everyone out of the water), and people would actively encourage them to keep playing, whereas if it were a male player who was doing terribly, they'd tell them to stop playing.
[quote=Dishonesty Post]So while systemic views are valuable, we must also keep in mind that removal of a systemic flaw requires a replacement of a systemic patch or fix. Removal of the perceived problem of sexism cannot be replaced simply by lack of sexism. It must be replaced by a behavior. You cannot remove a behavior without a substitute behavior or else a system collapses.[/quote]
This right here. THIS RIGHT HERE. THIS FUCKING THING RIGHT HERE IS EXACTLY why I can't stand feminism. They never push a plan or policy replacement forward or they make some very vague and heavily abusive wording toward said policy.
[QUOTE=Ziron;46491297]I think the key thing with minority characters is that they don't make it feel tokenistic or pandering towards that specific miniory the character is. F:NV did it well; two companions were gay, but it is only a small part of who they are instead of them just screaming "I'M A BIG OL' FAGGOT THAT LIKES TAKING IT IN THE ASS/GETTING SCISSORED!" like the writer was trying to gain "good LGBT ally" points instead of making a good character.
However, if say, the next Quake game had the main character be a transgender black woman, then I'd roll my eyes because that's blatant pandering. The character could be anything because the main character in a Quake game has zero personality, but making them a transgender black woman would blatantly feel like they were trying to pander towards Tumblr users and transgender people instead of making an interesting character.[/QUOTE]
F:NV did it the best because you wouldnt know your companion would be gay unti you engage tons of dialog with them.
[QUOTE=Swilly;46491591]This right here. THIS RIGHT HERE. THIS FUCKING THING RIGHT HERE IS EXACTLY why I can't stand feminism. They never push a plan or policy replacement forward or they make some very vague and heavily abusive wording toward said policy.[/QUOTE]
Feminism has accomplished a lot. The person you are quoting said as much in his last piece.
1st and 2nd wave feminism accomplished a lot.*
[QUOTE=Raidyr;46491666]Feminism has accomplished a lot. The person you are quoting said as much in his last piece.[/QUOTE]
I should change it to modern feminism as of right now.
1st and 2nd wave got a lot of shit done and even the starts of 3rd wave did a fantastic job but if you talk to the average feminist, a lot of them want good things but don't know how to replace it.
[QUOTE=residntevl;46491216]If you're writing a gay character like a flaming homosexual to show off how diverse a writer you are, you may not be as diverse as you think you are.[/QUOTE]If you do that, you're Anthony Burch.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46491726]If you do that, you're Anthony Burch.[/QUOTE]
Anthony 'le friendzone' Burch, or Pseudo-nerd bot no. 1999A.
What is the borderline for political critique? Are the reasons for the appliance of said critique to various artforms considered valid concerns? (For example gender politics, to keep it in-context of the current discussion)
[QUOTE=Swilly;46491699]I should change it to modern feminism as of right now.
1st and 2nd wave got a lot of shit done and even the starts of 3rd wave did a fantastic job but if you talk to the average feminist, a lot of them want good things but don't know how to replace it.[/QUOTE]
3rd wave feminism has accomplished little for the same reasons the social justice movement won't.
They insist on standing behind arguments that wont hold up under scrutiny, the more vocal individuals are unlikeable characters, and there is zero tolerance for dissent from within.
Literally expending most of their energy cannibalizing each other, every time momentum picks up, it inevitably leads to driving in circles.
[QUOTE=Ithon;46491447][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kC7s7tfaEc[/media]
he says he leans on anti-gg, but says it's insane he was included as pro-gg harasser in the CBC segment.[/QUOTE]
the entire first minute of this can be confused as a adult swim skit
[QUOTE=Mecha Pirate;46492054]Anthony 'le friendzone' Burch, or Pseudo-nerd bot no. 1999A.
What is the borderline for political critique? Are the reasons for the appliance of said critique to various artforms considered valid concerns? (For example gender politics, to keep it in-context of the current discussion)[/QUOTE]
It shouldn't be political critique at all. Ever. It should be contextual.
It's that fucking simple.
Does learning this character's sexual orientation enhance that character's exposition and the player's experience?
Does learning this character's sexual orientation or identity change player outlook or make a story hook?
Does learning this character's life story broaden the player's outlook or give a depth cue to the main exposition?
Does this game actually support this kind of interaction [i]as a method of exposition progression[/i] or is this a checkbox on a whiteboard?
[QUOTE=27X;46492601]It shouldn't be political critique at all. Ever. It should be contextual.
It's that fucking simple.
Does learning this character's sexual orientation enhance that character's exposition and the player's experience?
Does learning this character's sexual orientation or identity change player outlook or make a story hook?
Does learning this character's life story broaden the player's outlook or give a depth cue to the main exposition?
Does this game actually support this kind of interaction [i]as a method of exposition progression[/i] or is this a checkbox on a whiteboard?[/QUOTE]
This kind of stuff is what I wondered when I first started writing my story.
I just introduced a transgendered man, who is basically sent to prison because his parents find his hormone therapy.
Dave, who is ftm, plays a pretty big part in my story, and him being transgendered is part of it, but he's also a human being who deserves to be treated well.
I honestly have no idea if putting him in my story counts as pandering, but I definitely think transgendered folks are underrepresented as fuck.
[B]Edit:[/B] also, if anyone wants to read an awesome story that has a few characters who happen to be LGBT folks, check out [I]The Coldest Girl in Coldtown[/I] by Holly Black. It's a fantastic read.
[url=https://twitter.com/Logan_RTW/status/533444730831790081]Logan from Tek Syndicate seems to be pissed about the current situation with journalism.[/url]
[QUOTE=Morphology53;46492205]3rd wave feminism has accomplished little for the same reasons the social justice movement won't. [/QUOTE]
There is no singular "social justice" movement because social justice covers a myriad of topics.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;46493173]There is no singular "social justice" movement because social justice covers a myriad of topics.[/QUOTE]
However 3rd Wave Feminism is attempting to tackle all social justice topics, attempting to combine it into one singular thing.
[video=youtube;JXejdoAL8T8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXejdoAL8T8[/video]
i knew it
So I think Jim Sterling just got fired from the Escapist Magazine:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5psqcIsm6KU[/media]
[QUOTE=Fangz;46493319]So I think Jim Sterling just got fired from the Escapist Magazine:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5psqcIsm6KU[/media][/QUOTE]
Hey, that's nice and all... but didn't he say something along the lines of "there is no problem currently in games journalism" or atleast imply that the issue wasn't as big a deal as everyone is making it seem?
Because if he did, he must have realized something was up if he just decided to try to do the independent journalism thing.
1 Pretty sure he was on his way out anyway, and 2 he touted alexander as "one of the most ethical people I've ever met" [sic].
If a racist, sexist, classist and elitist hatemonger is a supreme ethical paragon in Jim's world, I'd sure as hell hate to meet a bigot by his definition.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;46487687]So the CBC has firmly come out as against GamerGate instead of taking a neutral journalistic stance like they fucking should. I'd say that I am completely disgusted but frankly this is normal for them. These fucking chodes don't know what journalism is.
So I guess it's not just US media that sucks ass, considering our government-funded national broadcaster has gone full retard.
EDIT: holy shit I'm reading Twitter, Canadian GG supporters ARE PISSED. And considering the CBC is milking views and victim points from this I expect by next week GamerGate is going to go national in Canada. And if you guys think the SJW infection is bad in the US, just wait until you see what Canada looks like after a few days of GG vs SJW fighting. Ugh I am not looking forward to this.
I'd bet money (if I had any) on there being a new push for cyberbullying laws before the end of December.
EDIT 2: seriously look at this shit: [URL]https://twitter.com/CBCNews/status/522484626515062784[/URL]
This isn't just some fucking article, they outright came out against GamerGate. What the fuck?[/QUOTE]
Here's the juicy part
CBC is a crowned corporation owned by the Canadian Government, just like Australia's ABC which is also a crowned corporation they have to have [B]no political agenda[/B] and [B]no bias whatsoever[/B] else they become incredibly ineffective
I read on 8chan the CBC has broken many of their journalistic standards, if anything this would give the Canadian government more reason to defund and privatise them
Pakman could also sue for defamation if he felt inclined
[QUOTE=27X;46493400]1 Pretty sure he was on his way out anyway, and 2 he touted alexander as "one of the most ethical people I've ever met" [sic].
If a racist, sexist, classist and elitist hatemonger is a supreme ethical paragon in Jim's world, I'd sure as hell hate to meet a bigot by his definition.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://archive.today/k6ORS[/url]
No strings Mr. Jim, says I'm friends with so and so.
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